Microlights

[vectis lady]

Hey,

ive manged to confuse myself (not difficult :)) so hopefully someone can point me in the right direction, i have a PPL (A) and i want to convert to microlights - do i need to do any tests etc or just differences training until i can be signed off by an instructor ?

i seem to have read totally conflicting info so not sure now ???

thanks guys

[Oldpilot55]

If you post the same message on the other place then Irv Lee will give you the correct answer.
I believe that if you have a PPL(A) then you can fly microlights legally. If your licence is JAR then the rules are possibly different.
You would then need to spend a little time with a microlight instructor to get a little experience with handling a microlight. I assume you are talking three-axis microlight but if not then you would need a few hours to get the hang of weight shift.
Good luck!

[xrayalpha]

Hi,

Your PPL(A) and a JAR SEP give you the right to fly a microlight - any type - without further training, tests etc.

Reason is that the ICAO definition of a SEP includes microlights - or rather, does not exclude them!

The NPPL is a UK licence and it changed from a NPPL (SEP) to a NPPL (SSEA) because of the international definition of a SEP.

The UK definition of a SSEA is basically a SEP with the exception of microlights!

So if you have a NPPL (SSEA) you have to look at the cross-crediting document on the NPPL website.

My three-axis microlight instructor has a JAR SEP and has never done any basic microlight training or tests. He has, of course, done the microlight instructor training and tests though!

(and revalidated his JAR SEP by flight test since he had no light aircraft flying hours in the past year!!)

Very best,

XA

[vectis lady]

thanks for the replys guys, im glad that i dont have to do another skills test - once is enough :)

cheers

[BackPacker]

Your PPL(A) and a JAR SEP give you the right to fly a microlight - any type - without further training, tests etc.

Reason is that the ICAO definition of a SEP includes microlights - or rather, does not exclude them!

Whoops. Just a tad too fast.

ICAO and JAR-FCL are nice documents, but in the UK it's only the ANO that applies. And the ANO makes a specific exception for UK-issued JAR-FCL PPL(A) wrt. microlights. I could not find the reference in the ANO quickly, but here's what LASORS has to say about it:

The holder of a UK JAR-FCL licence with SEP rating
may also subject to completion of differences training
with an appropriately qualified flying instructor, exercise
the privileges of their licence on microlight aeroplanes
and SLMG’s in UK airspace only, without the necessity
of obtaining a NPPL (the normal licence for such
aeroplanes). However, any experience gained in
microlight aeroplanes or SLMG’s cannot be counted
towards the flying experience necessary to revalidate
the SEP rating.

[LASORS C1.1]

So by law you have to obtain appropriate differences training by a qualified instructor, who then has to sign you off properly.

[muffin]

Correct, and it has to be a microlight instructor.

[KeyPilot]

Muffin - no it doesn't - it has to be to the BMAA syllabus, but can be a JAR-FCL FI(A)

[xrayalpha]

Backpacker,

It ain't in the ANO.

LASORS is only advice. I repeat, my three-axis instructor has no microlight rating/licence - only a JAR SEP.

He also, of course, has a microlight instructor's rating.

It took the CAA a bit of convincing to put the microlight instructor rating on a JAR SEP - which was in another thread on Pprune - but it IS the law.

Of course, I stand to be corrected if the ANO was ammended in this respect last month,

With kind regards,

XA

[Rod1]

Why not switch to VLA’s instead. None of the complications, more weight and performance and the same operating costs.

Rod1

[muffin]

it has to be to the BMAA syllabus, but can be a JAR-FCL FI(A)

Actually I went through the same process myself a year or so ago and queried this with the BMAA. They referred me to their licensing expert who was adamant that it had to be a microlight instructor. I was only interested in 3 axis so the "differences training" was in reality a joke 'cos there weren't any.

[xrayalpha]

Muffin,

This is why I ask everyone for quotes from the ANO.

The CAA, the BMAA and the AAIB all seem to want "differences" training - and it is a good idea (and not just because I am an instructor and need the students!) - but I can never find any mention in the ANO.

I suppose if you want to read the ANO cover-to-cover you can save yourself some cash!

As for differences, they are there - beware all who read this.

Yes, the C42 and the Eurostar are the identical airframe in microlight and light aircraft versions - so few differences there.

But try flying an X-Air, Thruster or AX for instance - then you'll see some differences.

And if you are used to Spam cans, then beware the lower inertia of the lighter aircraft - whether microlights or Gp A.

Safe flying all, it is not the paper that kills you,

XA

[BackPacker]

It ain't in the ANO.

LASORS is only advice.

Interesting. I though LASORS was a summary of the ANO with regards to FCL. But you claim that it is just friendly advise from the nice folks at Gatwick house? Is there any way to distinguish those parts of LASORS that summarize the ANO and those parts that do not?

I repeat, my three-axis instructor has no microlight rating/licence - only a JAR SEP.


Well, as far as I understand, a PPL needs differences training to fly a microlight (whatever the UK-specific legal definition of that is). But since microlights fall within the JAR-FCL SEP(A) class rating definition, you don't get a separate class rating annotation for it - just a sign-off in your logbook saying you've had appropriate differences training. It's a bit twisted but sorta logical if you think about it.


He also, of course, has a microlight instructor's rating.

It took the CAA a bit of convincing to put the microlight instructor rating on a JAR SEP - which was in another thread on Pprune - but it IS the law.

I expect an FI ticket to be specific to a class. So technically if the JAR-FCL FI has a SEP(A) class rating on his ticket, and has had the appropriate differences training to fly microlights, he would legally be the equivalent of a microlight instructor. No need from the CAA to confirm that with a separate ticket but I guess if you twist arms long enough they'll give you one just to get rid of you? But I have to admit I'm not an FI, not by a long shot, and I have never had an interest in those parts of the law.

Oh well, the microlight class is a funny thing anyway. As some have said, some microlights are *exactly* the same as VLA/Group A aircraft and differences training is at best getting used to the lower inertia of the thing. But other microlights are so wildly different from the average spam can that you've got to learn to fly all over again.

If I had my say, I would scrap the microlight term altogether and replace it with multiple class ratings both for the PPL and the NPPL as follows:


SEP(A) with three axis controls, rigid wings etc.
SEP(TMG/SLMG)
Weightshift aircraft
Powered parachutes


Oh, and now that I'm bitching about this anyway, I would also require mandatory endorsements, just like tailwheel, complex etc, for:

FADEC controlled engines (yes they are simpler to operate than traditional two/three lever engines but the failure modes are far more complex)
Aerobatics flight
Glass cockpits

I don't think in actual practice making this mandatory would make one bit of difference for a responsible pilot. He or she will seek training in these areas anyway. But it would be a signal to all that these differences are to be taken seriously.

[DFC]

So technically if the JAR-FCL FI has a SEP(A) class rating on his ticket, and has had the appropriate differences training to fly microlights, he would legally be the equivalent of a microlight instructor

Yes.

A JAR-FCL licence holder with Valid SEP and FI ratings can after appropriate differences training provide training on microlight aircraft.

Those holders of the old UK-PPL fall foul of the requirement to have either an AFI or FI (Microlights) rating before providing such instruction unless the CAA give permission.

For a JAR-FCL PPL with valid SEP to fly microlights then differences training is required.

Regards,

DFC

Regards,