FAA Checkride Florida- Cancelled by examiner due to weather

[dom175b]

I was due to have my ppl check-ride at 1pm today in Ft.Pierce, been informed it has been cancelled by the examiner! I am so disappointed but the weather is looking really bad!

It has been scheduled for Wednesday, but if I fail, I leave on Thursday!!!

The weather in Florida is not all it has been cracked up to be, out of 5 1/2 weeks I have had 15 days bad weather, unable to fly!

This will be the third attempt at taking my check-ride, it has cost me a new flight back to the uk, 7 days extra at the hotel, I think about an extra $2000 in total!!!! So much money.

Has anyone else had these problems? The really annoying thing is the examiner knew the weather was going to be bad 5 days ago and I kept telling them, schedule for a day later, but no one would listen!

Maybe a good way of making money from uk students! or just bad luck! They also do not tell anyone that instructors fee's are ontop of the all inclusive package price! Beware!

[Lasiorhinus]

I doubt your instructor gets any kickbacks from the airlines or the hotels, if you have to return to Americaland... but, yes, I agree that if they've advertised "all inclusive", then that should include all fees and charges.

Point that out to them, and ask for a refund of all the 'hidden extras'.

I personally think that booking a flight home within a day or so of your test is folly: Remember the expression "Time to spare? Go by air!". Plan for weather related delays, including when scheduling how much time you need in the country. Ideally, youll be done in time and can spend a couple of days sightseeing, but otherwise you're glad of the buffer. Its like putting fuel in your tanks - you carry reserves, too, in case of the unexpected, right?

[BackPacker]

This will be the third attempt at taking my check-ride, it has cost me a new flight back to the uk, 7 days extra at the hotel, I think about an extra $2000 in total!!!! So much money.

Why did you go to the US to do the checkride again? You trained to the CAA syllabus and if you take all the paperwork with you, you can just show up at any school in the UK, lay all your paperwork on the table there, do a few short flights to get familiar with airspace, school procedures and such, and do the checkflight there.

Must be far cheaper than $2000 that way.

(Edited to say sorry for the above. I now see you're there for the FAA PPL so the above is irrelevant.)

[mcgoo]

If your examiner knew the weather was going to be bad 5 days in advance he is in the wrong career, more likely he had a forecast of the weather which in Florida means very little, the weather in Florida is very changeable and during hurricane season for example the forecast will say storms every day but there isn't, if all flights and tests were not booked because of forecast weather, not very many would take place at all.

[dom175b]

I did not return to the uk, stayed in the usa but it has been really bad weather, so I was meant to go home a while ago and the school keeps booking unrealisted check-ride times! I had left loads of time of check-ride and any error that may have occured.

Anyway, if all fails, I have met all requirements for my ride, do you know how much it costs in the uk to take FAA check ride?

[Cusco]

About £150.00

But beware:You can only take the initial FAA checkride in the UK in an N reg aeroplane, unless the examiner is both JAR/FAA qualified in which case you can take it in a G reg.

And dual FAA/JAA examiners as opposed to instructors in the UK are as rare as hens' teeth.

You need an examiner for the initial issue of the pilot certificate, whereas an instructor can do the BFR.

The joys of trying to cram it all in in USA , eh?

PM me for a url of a FAA examiner (N reg only) in UK.

Hope it goes well on Wednesday.

Cusco

[englishal]

and the school keeps booking unrealisted check-ride times! I had left loads of time of check-ride and any error that may have occured.
Why don't YOU tell them when you want it? It is very easy to say: " Iwant to book a check ride for XYZ date and ABC time".

I had to stay an extra week for mine due to low cloud and fog in California. Still I would go up ontop with the instructor and practice and then do a bit of instrument stuff on the way down.

[dom175b]

All sounds really good advice, will try and complete everything in the US on wednesday, hopefully will pass!!! Ill keep you all posted!!

[Julian]

and the school keeps booking unrealisted check-ride times! I had left loads of time of check-ride and any error that may have occured.

Sometimes you will have to put your foot down with a school and firmly but sternly let them know the situation. As EA says, let them know well in advance when you want your checkride for and the approx time, leave time for a re-test or cancellation(which it sounds your did).

I had a school has the aircraft go u/s on me once and then almost did a second time when I was about to go home. Unfortunately the Chief Pilot try to BS me on what caused it, what he didnt realise was that I am in engineering anyway. A few stern words to him and next thing the parts required were couriered to the school and I took my test on time. Dont think they were happy as it cost them a bit of money but there again they should have kept their aircraft maintained and not rely on fixing them only when they break!

When the visiting DPE used to attend the UK I heard figure of £600 upwards mentioned. I know Tom Hughstone is now a DPE and apparently there in someone at Bournemouth who is also a DPE but no idea of their identify I am afraid!

J.

[IO540]

"Someone at Bournemouth" would be a new development! The situation with UK FAA checkrides has never been transparent, since I started working down that path in 2003.

The problem with getting aggressive with a U.S. school is that the school's name is

- on one's M1 Visa
- on the TSA approval process
- on all other paperwork

so they have you by the g00lies.

One can open up a new training request on the TSA website, another $150 or whatever wasted, and apparently there is a process for getting the Visa changed over (but despite enquiries I never found out any details). But it will waste at least a week.

IMHO Florida is very much over-rated. Training in the USA must be regarded as an all-out get your head down and get on with it project, no boozing, no sh*gging, just a few weeks of solid work. So, best go to a place like So Cal or better still Arizona where the weather is good and you can guarantee 2-3 flights per day. You fly from 7am or 8am, so one may as well stay on UK time and do a bit of study before leaving the hotel. Last flight will be ~ 5pm so you go to bed 2 hours later.

The school in Florida are also very busy nowadays, reportedly processing millions of students from India etc.

Training in the USA is not the pushover which European/JAA elitists keep saying it is. It is damned hard work and one cannot afford to lose time.

[englishal]

Training in the USA must be regarded as an all-out get your head down and get on with it project, no boozing, no sh*gging, just a few weeks of solid work
I think that me an Julian missed the bit about no boozing:eek::}. Throttle to bottle time was pretty quick I seem to remember. I blame the Bacardi 151 myself......

Lots of hazy memories of booze, rock bands, parties, hand guns, climbing palm trees, forgetting to pay a $500 bar tab (but it was ok because we were regulars and when we were reminded the next day we paid up) :O I even woke up one morning with a stars and stripes on my bed, and I seem to remember walking through a drive through with some boys from the "hood" getting a bit upset, and the cops stopping us for walking.....ah they were the days. Who wants to come flying with us :)

[IO540]

So long as that the US flag was the only thing you woke up with on your bed, there is no harm in your wife finding out ;) ;)

[dom175b]

I agree the syllabus in the US haqs been alot tougher than I first expected, have met loads of uk ppl holders doing commercial licences and they keep telling me the detail in which an FAA PPl must know is getting into the realms of the atpl syllabus in the uk.
The oral is my fear 1-3 hours of being asked anything! One guy 4 weeks ago had 12 hours of oral exam with a DPE, took two days!!! The guys was pretty p....d off!!! Then the flight, again the english chaps keep saying wow thats tough, you'll be good at cross winds if you pass!!!
I have been flying in 27 kt winds, on my solo x country winds got up to 34 kts G40 Kts, I can tell you I was scared! But saying that had half the airport watching me land and it did feel good to know I was safely on the ground! Thanks for all the advise, look forward to passing and meeting you all at your airports through-out the uk.
D

[Flyin'Dutch']

I have been flying in 27 kt winds, on my solo x country winds got up to 34 kts G40 Kts,

You sure you still need to do your checkride?

:}

[UncleNobby]

"I have been flying in 27 kt winds, on my solo x country winds got up to 34 kts G40 Kts"

Were these winds straight down the rwy? Must be getting pretty close to the demonstrated X-wind component of a small GA AC. ADM (Aeronautical Decision Making) is a box that needs to be checked in order to get your private ticket too!!

[Brian Abraham]

Has anyone else had these problems

Sure have. Took me one month before the Florida weather co-operated enough for me to get my last night cross country out of the way. Being military it didn't matter to me personally though.

[Cusco]

Well, dom175b, howja get on?

Cusco;)

[dom175b]

I didnt pass!!!! Sorry it has taken so long to come back, I need to speak with the uk examiner! Problem stems from the US, no proper ground school was given! You can try and remember so much!

The examiner was a nice bloke, but he asked some very difficult questions relating more to Gulfstream commercial pilots, according to friends!! I just didnt have the really indepth knowledge he was looking for and he was deviating from the set syllabus!

Watch out for these schools in the US in Florida as they dont give any ground school, just DVD videos. The flying trainning is very good and the planes well maintained, but they dont tell you that instructors cost extra per hour ontop of your ppl!!!!

[mcgoo]

I assume then you were doing an FAA PPL and you failed the oral exam, did you have the PPL oral exam guide, if you know that cover to cover you should be ok, no instructor is really going to teach you all that as most of it is learning from the FAR/AIM, airspace requirements etc

[kwachon]

Sorry to hear you failed the oral, as an examiner myself I can assure you that there is no desire ever to fail a candidate, not being there I do not know how a Gulfstream came into play but that does sound odd, perhaps if you look at the PTS and go to the local FSDO you might get someone to point out where the error occurred. The examiner should have given you a pink slip with the failed area(s) annotated, match these to the PTS and see where you went wrong.
Do not be bitter about a failure, many have had it happen to them before you and many will following you. Take stock, refresh the weak area(s) and do it over again, I am sure you will be sucessfull.

Good luck

KW

[IO540]

Watch out for these schools in the US in Florida as they dont give any ground school, just DVD videos

There isn't any ground school in the UK either - it is at the discretion of the student whether he wants any and wants to pay for it. One can do the whole lot as self-study. I did the FAA PPL and FAA CPL as self study; only for the FAA IR I had a few hours of ground school.

The FAA gotchas are knowledge of US airspace rules, the symbols on their weather charts, stuff like the Airport Facility Directory and such. But if you studied to pass the written exam you will be aware of the general scope of the oral exam.

If you want to have another go in the UK, you will need to be signed off by an FAA CFI within the 60 days preceeding the checkride. This instructor will obviously want to fly with you if he is going to sign you off as ready for the checkride. I also don't know whether you can do an checkride in Europe in a Euro-reg plane; it may have to be an N-reg.

[kwachon]

To follow on from IO540, you need to be signed off as had sufficient retraining and ready for the checkride by a CFI and yes it must be in a "N" reg aircraft.

Again Good luck.

[UncleNobby]

Anyone who is seriously thinking of flying shouldn't rely on any hand holding. One of my biggest problems with the PPL oral was that I didn't know how little I needed to know - there is so much to learn and if you are serious about flying you should have an appetite for learning - not just sit down and watch some DVD and expect to be ready. As it worked out the oral was a breeze but that's becasue I did tons of independent study.

No offense but if you failed to even get in the airplane then you were not prepared. Anyone considering a 3/4 week intensive course should do all the ground on your own before you ever go - get a Jepp, Sporty's or whatever syllabus (where you actaully have to read) and know it back to front. Supplement that with the FAA handbooks, chart guides, Aviation weather books, etc and use the ASA oral guide as a revision tool.

Below is a summary I put together for my flight school of my private oral. It lasted 2 hours approx... It might give someone an idea of what to expect......
Remember; the oral and checkride is also considered instructional so you can discuss and pick the brain of the examiner (not just a Q and A session). I think the DPE's like that...after my oral was over, we decided the weather was not good enough to fly, but I asked him about his aviation career and ended up talking about that for an hour or so afterwards - it gave me a great insight into what it takes to go from zero to 737 captain to nice retirement gig as DPE!



Flight portion was rescheduled due to low ceilings and visibility.
The following are some of the questions/areas that were discussed during the oral. Overall DPE is very fair, and you only need to answer the questions asked, any elaboration however may lead to other subject areas!

Aircraft and Maintenance
- What is an AD? Who issues them and what is the owner/operators responsibility? DPE gave an example a running AD for the adjustable seating on the C152
- If an annual inspection is performed on October 7th 2007, when is the next annual required to be completed by?
- What is the fuel capacity? Useable fuel?
- What grade of fuel does the AC use and how do you identify this fuel (color)
- What is the oil capacity? Minimum oil level for safe flight?

Flight Plan, weight and Balance and Weather
-Flight plan for XC and weight and balance. DPE will look over the flight plan to see if it is reasonable for direction, distance, ground speed, flight duration and fuel burn
- Weight and Balance. Looks over the weight and balance for the aircraft. Ensures weight is below max operating weight (he will ask you what this is) and that the CG is within the envelope. The weight and balance sheets from the school website are ideal and have all the info on one page.
- General discussion on the current and forecasted weather and how it would affect our flight, but nothing specific on weather.

Sectional
- 3 ways to communicate with FSS in flight a) Flightwatch 122.0 b) Navaids – transmit on the R frequency, receive on the VOR freq c) RCO’s with 2 way Comm
- He selects an airport (Keene) on the sectional and asks you to tell him everything about the airport from looking at the sectional only.
- How do you identify a towered and non towered airport on the chart?
- Explain minimum safe altitude markings on the sectional?
- Restricted airspace (R 4102 A and B) where do you find info regarding operating times, altitudes, and controlling agency on the chart? Rules for restricted airspace.
- Same with Prohibited airspace
- Point out the boundaries of class B airspace.
- What does the [26] in the Bedford Delta represent?
- Be able to give the height of an obstruction on the chart in MSL and AGL
- Know the sign for fuel and rotating beacon on a sectional.
- Fight over wildlife refuge, requested altitude
- Procedures on the CTAF or Unicom

FARs
- Minimum fuel for VFR day and Night flight
- VFR requirements in Class G, E, D, C, and B
- What is the ceiling of G airspace on either side of the E magenta boundary (700 and 1200 ft ceilings)
- Procedure for transit through C and B airspace
- Explain mode C veil and requirements for aircraft operating in Mode C airspace
- Right of way rules. (he will draw a few examples and ask who has right of way/ what action to take)

Night flight
- What lights required on the aircraft for night flight – what colors on each wing are the position lights
- Color of taxiway lighting and runway lighting.
- Airport rotating beacon colors for land airport.

Emergency
- Emergency Squak Code and emergency Comm frequency
- What to do in an electrical fire? Will this effect the engine? If the burning smell stops after you switch off the master, what do you do next? DPE noted that although it would be wise to switch off all the electrical applications, turn the master back on and try to isolate the problem by reactivating electrical components one by one, as pilot in command you could choose to continue without doing so, but would incur some operating limitations (i.e. no radio, navaids, no power to flaps) which would restrict your options (airspace, runway length etc)


Runway markings and runway incursions
- Shows a runway with a displaced threshold, where are you allowed to commence TO roll and where are you allowed to Touchdown.
- Shows a runway with a blast pad. Where are you allowed to commence TO and touchdown
- Shows a runway hold sign, where do you have to be positioned when told to hold short of the runway? Also asks where you should be positioned relative to the hold line when you have cleared the active runway? (DPE emphasizes that any part of the aircraft over the runway side of the solid line on both occasions is an example of a runway incursion).
- PAPI; what colors are they when you are on glideslope?


Wake avoidance procedures
- Procedures when arriving behind an arriving jet aircraft.
- Procedures when arriving after a jet aircraft has departed.
- Procedures when departing after a departing jet aircraft.

[dom175b]

Wow, Thank you for all the information!
The items he failed me on were Navigation, mainly the asent and desent! Which in turn put my performance out slightly! He said I hadnt calculated the time correctly, this was true and now I am having one to one tuition. The other information he failed me on was seaplane bases!!!!! I am not trainning as a seaplane pilot! I have soken to two commercial pilots and they say that the cross country planning I did was 145 miles long and within 3 minute estimate time en-route / arrival. Under UK regs this may have passed but in the US it was a failure!!
I have to say this seems like madness as I will probably be using a couple of Garmin 430's and a map as saftey measure route.
Anyway I have decided to go back on the 2nd April back to the US and retake in a Mooney, do complex and high performance, hopefully return with my wings! You guys have provided some great information, once again thank you for your input, it has been really useful.

[IO540]

3 mins out on a dead reckoned 145nm flight cannot be a test failure; not even a robot could fly that accurately.

Unless you have somehow p1**ed off the examiner and he is out to get you.

The complex signoff is important because only an FAA CFI/CFII can give you that logbook entry, and while there are plenty of FAA CFIs in the UK, this is another thing worth getting while you can.

[Julian]

Blimey Dom, I agree with IO, unless you havent told us everything you could prob appeal your failure. I got a couple of things wrong during my oral (I can just about remeber it!!!), but as they were not a major item of the test he just talked through them. Get something major wrong (such as airspace) and yes they will fail you.

I dont see seaplanes bases as a major item (although ready to be corrected!), the DPE I had I ended up having a few times over various exams and he used to like to carry out the oral for the exam then then push you further to see what els you knew - he would not fail you if you screwed up and you would usually end up having a 'mini lesson' which was great.

And as for failing for being out by 3mins... :}

J.

[Henry Hallam]

Not all Florida schools give only DVDs as ground school! I had several hours of very satisfactory ground school both individually and in a small group at Debenair in 2005. Of course I agree that independent study is very important.