Military ATC using Civil Phraseology

[radarman]

Although 90% of our traffic is civil, as a military airfield we have always stuck to military R/T as per JSP 552. Recently noticed, however, that the latest 552 section on phraseology says that when controlling civil aircraft, military controllers are to use civil phraseology as per CAP 413. We have conveniently ignored this, but now a new trainee has arrived and we need to sort something out so as to give him some official guidance. We are a little bit out in the sticks here, so was wondering how the boys in blue back in UK - especially WU - deal with this issue.

[chevvron]

Funny, I don't recall seeing a VN for your airfield.
My airfield was MOD controlled for years, and for the last 10 years we had considerably more civil than miltary traffic, but never had any problems with phraseology other than with iap's, where you had to remember not to request DH/MDH etc.

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

I've heard you Chev: "Turn left... wait for it... wait for it... 180".

[SilentHandover]

Oooooo I cannot wait to tell your new trainee that he is a subject of a thread on here, it'll make his day!!!

[BurglarsDog]

That' ll be the airport where, in 94, mil controllers taught civs to control predominantly civilian CAT acft using military JSP552 procedures (VMC around the Rock anyone?)

Yet, subsequently, the same mil training officers couldnt get a job there because they didnt have a civilian qualification!

One tenacous individual did go back and do the complete Bournemouth course and eventually return to Gib as a controller - such are the powers of a Spanish girlfriend !

Good en yer P**e!


Regarding the RT. I suppose both SRG and the Cat Board will need consulting back in Blighty. But at the end of the day I dont think it will make a lot of difference what you say, as long as its clear, concise and unambiguous English!

DogGone:ok:

[Monkey Madness]

Recently noticed, however, that the latest 552 section on phraseology says that when controlling civil aircraft, military controllers are to use civil phraseology as per CAP 413.

as a WU controller I am very interested in hearing about that....

could any of you fine gents please point me in the direction of where to find a copy of CAP 413

Radarman... we control i.a.w. the 552, but there are some minor additions that controllers make to get the answers they need. I would love to post some examples, but i'd not feel comfortable..... Some here feel that mil phraseology needs to be verbatim, where as (imho) i feel sometimes plain language or civil phraseology works better. English is usually the pilots 2nd language thus if they hear what they're used to hearing at civ airfields then they are more likely to give the right answer first time.

At the end of the day I find that my phraseology is tailored for the aircraft i am controlling vs the supervisor of the watch.

(standing by for my 'interview' in the office......)

[Wombat66]

"(standing by for my 'interview' in the office......)"

A regular occurence in my day at the same place for the same offence of using plain English and common sense in order to get the job done.

Keep up the good work Monkey Madness :ok:

[BDiONU]

could any of you fine gents please point me in the direction of where to find a copy of CAP 413
Google is, as always, your friend. First hit http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/33/CAP413.PDF

BD

[bottom rung]

Google isn't so friendly if you want a copy of JSP552!

[204red]

Monkey Madness,

Well said, couldn't agree more. As a civil controller at a Mil unit I am in the happy position of being aware of both JSP and CAP phraseology. I use JSP phrsaeolgy probably 95% of the time but there are those occasions when the use of CAP phraseology is the safest, clearest way of getting a particular message or instruction across to a particular pilot.

Radarman,

We spotted that reference at our unit, checked with a couple of local Mil units who found it a bit strange as they don't hold, and are not required to, copies of CAP 413!!