Toronto area schools, anyone?

[klaus]

Does anybody out there have any knowledge of flight schools in the Toronto area? I wont waste time now, but if i get any response i will explain my situation, cheers!

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[penguin]

In Toronto area, there are plenty of flying school to choose from:

Buttonville Airport - Toronto Airways

City Centre Airport - Airline Training International and Island Airways

Markham - Canadian Flyers International

Brampton - Brampton Flying Club

[klaus]

Thanks for the reply. I live in the u.k., my partner and i would like to come out and live over there,and for me to train in the art of flying. I would like to take this to carreer stage, but after reading a few pages from this site, so does everyone else. I have spoken to someone at oshawa airport(durham flight centre)and know someone out that way,and although they sound great over the phone (so does everyone else!)i am after the low down on the situation in canada from anyone that doesn't own a school

cheers!


klaus

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[Squawk 8888]

If you train at Toronto City Centre then Island Air is the hands-down winner. Bigger fleet, lots of good instructors, they can take you to multi/IFR. ATI is a smaller operation and has been rumoured to have money problems for some time now (they've got two Katanas that have been sitting on the apron more than a year with no props). The downside of training at YTZ is money- you'll pay about $10-15/hr more, plus a few bucks for the 30-second boat ride to the terminal (it's on an island). The upside is that it's located right in the heart of the worlds best city in which to live :)

Oshawa is also a good place to train (it's five minutes from the practice area) and the Brampton Flying Club is a first-class facility. If you're going for a PPL I would recommend YTZ or Oshawa- both these airports are towered and I've noticed that pilots who train at non-towered airports are not comfortable talking to ATC and flight-plan away from control zones, unnecessarily limiting their options.

Best time of year to fly here is May-June and September-November. Winters here can be brutal and the summers tend to be hazy and bumpy.

[klaus]

thanks for reply, we have already looked at Oshawa but in respect of durham flying centre and CFA - do you know anything of these? I'd like to know more about Brampton - do they go right through to CPL? do you have contct information web site, e-mail etc. We are comming out in may for a weeks recce and want to sort out the dross from the possibles. Cheers, beers on me!
Klaus

[penguin]

Here's the web site for Brampton Flying Club
http://www.bramfly.com/

All the schools that I have mentioned can take you all the way to CPL-multi/IFR. If you are coming out in May, I'd suggest you to rent a car and drive out to all the different schools to check them out. If you find the school that you like, don't hesitate to take a "Fam" (familarisation) flight with them. It will take 0.5 hr and it's usually cheaper than the cost of a real flying lesson.

As Squawk said, Oshawa is a nice airport to learn to fly. It is an under-used airport and has a control tower, 2 non-precision approaches, and is not far from the practice area. Brampton is just the opposite. Regarding Durham Flight Centre, I heard their C310 is out of service so you'd better check that out. The City Centre Airport is nice but getting there is a hassle. I hate waiting for the ferry and the extra toll that I have to pay. Oh, forgot to mention about the parking, it is expensive. Markham airport is far from the downtown area but is close to the practice area. The runway is short (2000') and is in pretty rough shape. I guess if you can land a Seminole there, you can land it anywhere. I believe they are the least expensive when compared to the other schools.

[Squawk 8888]

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size="2">The City Centre Airport is nice but getting there is a hassle. I hate waiting for the ferry and the extra toll that I have to pay.</font>
Well, it's the easiest to get to if, like me, you fly but don't drive :) - the ferry dock is just 1 block from the streetcar stop.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size="2">Oh, forgot to mention about the parking, it is expensive.</font>
True, but not as bad as it appears. Island Air validates for the lot next to the dock, so their students & renters can park all day for five buck.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size="2">Markham airport is far from the downtown area but is close to the practice area. The runway is short (2000') and is in pretty rough shape.</font>

True. They had their licence pulled a few years ago and were shut down for a while- during the shutdown the owner allowed our rocket club (http://www3.sympatico.ca/austin.taylor/CRS) and an R/C club to use the field. Made for some rather interesting times- it's so close to the practice area that some students would use it for approaches while we were launching http://www.pprune.org/ubb/NonCGI/eek.gif

There are some politically motivated improvements in the works there, including a second runway. Local officials and TC are getting tired of the whining from Buttonville's owner (the perennial threat to shut down if subsidies aren't forthcoming) so they're helping out Markham to try and shut them up.

[klaus]

thanks to those who responded,it has given loads to go away and research.

[email protected] (http://[email protected])

cheers

[KingAir]

Squawk 8888, the information that you are giving out is wrong about the schools at City Centre. First of all, ATI is the bigger school. They are Canada's only publicly traded flight school, they have two bases (City Centre and Kingston) and have a fleet of mostly brand new C-172s(7 at the moment) vs three new ones for the Island Air. They are more than twice the size (in all aspects) than Island Air. They have a lot of money. Their fleet is currently undergoing a modernization program meaning that all of the old ones will be replaced with brand spanking new aircraft...no more dinky C-150s. Brand new twins are supposed to be on their way with the addition of newer complex aircraft (talks of a new C-182 and a Saratoga). ATI instructors are top notch. They have to go an extensive interview process plus pass a training program and whole bunch of exams after they have been given the job offer! In addition, ATI is the approved flight school for Air Georgian (an Air Canada partner). The two Katanas that you see sitting on the ramp without props belong to the old Humber college program and NOT ATI. They had a few maintenance problems that shut them down at the Island. The deal for the parking is open to anyone doing business at the Island and is not exclusive to Island Air. Island Air is also more expensive than ATI when it comes to hourly fees...Mel likes to gouge his students (not to mention yell and belittle his students and instructors). There was a thread not too long ago at the AvCanada site about training there. You should check it out...lot of negative feedback from former and current students and instructors.

[This message has been edited by KingAir (edited 16 January 2001).]

[This message has been edited by KingAir (edited 17 January 2001).]

[Squawk 8888]

KingAir, let's back this away from JB territory. FWIW I did say ATI was rumoured to have some problems, I never claimed to have firsthand knowledge. I am aware they did an IPO a while back but that's all I know about them. I just reported what I knew- that there was some unconfirmed talk of problems and two dead Katanas that they used to operate. I did not take it further because I have not done business with them myself.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size="2">The deal for the parking is open to anyone doing business at the Island and is not exclusive to Island Air. </font>
I never claimed it was an exclusive deal- I'm not surprised that other businesses offer it, but I was not going to state that without confirmation. Because I don't drive there were only a couple of occasions where I needed the deal (for my pax) so I couldn't be sure if it applied to everyone.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size="2">TI instructors are top notch.</font>
I never claimed otherwise, and made no mention because I've never flown with them. I have spoken with them on more than a few occasions so I have no reason to doubt your word on it.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size="2">Island Air is also more expensive than ATI when it comes to hourly fees...Mel likes to gouge his students (not to mention yell and belittle his students and instructors).</font>
The last time I checked the rates were the same unless you needed headsets (ATI provided them N/C), but I'll keep an eye out. I haven't had any problems with Mel myself but I have seen him berate staff, especially dispatchers, in front of the customers which is a major no-no for any manager. Mel is also providing a good deal to our Air Cadet squadron while ATI wanted the full rate.
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size="2">There was a thread not too long ago at the AvCanada site about training there.</font>
Do you have a URL for the site?

[klaus]

Wow guys, c'mon, pistols at twenty paces!! Ireally appreciate the interest that this topic has raised. From this side of the pond it seems that there are many schools fishing for students to come and spend their hard earned dosh, so i need to explore every avenue.
So with this in mind, why have some schools got a little ATAC logo next to their web page blurb, and some seem to deny all existence of such!! I'll leave you that thought to ponder on, along with why does bread land butter side up, the meaning of life etc. etc.......props or no props, now that is a question...................

[Squawk 8888]

Well, I don't know about the schools but the instructors sure compete for students! As for the meaning of life, the answer is 42 :)

[KingAir]

Squawk 8888, my post was simply to dispel any misconceptions and errors in your post and others it was not intended as a personal attack...I guess from the tone of the last line it is probably easy to mistake my intentions. I want to make it known that I am not an ATI salesman as well...just feel that they provide the best training in the GTA. The above post will be edited.
As for ATI, the company is doing well...lot of things to look forward to. I agree with you that YOO is also good in the sense that the practice area is immediately north of the field and will not take you 15 mins of straight and level to get to. Brampton is alright...cheap rates and lots of a/c to choose from. Being a professional pilot, I kind of think that a controlled environment is best.
ATI site is at: www.airlinetraining.net (http://www.airlinetraining.net)
Access to online bookingsheet at the same site.
Cheers.

[This message has been edited by KingAir (edited 17 January 2001).]

[Squawk 8888]

Thanks for that link. Do you have the URL for AvCanada?

[TrueNorth]

http://www.syz.com/avcanada/

[Cruise100]

I've been training at the Brampton Flying Club - great place - I'd recommend to anyone and they have good instructors - good resources on site and slightly cheaper than TO Island. If you want to know, email me.