Happy at work? Airlines with good working morale

[BigginHillBoy]

Gentlemen

Often the loudest people on these message boards are the most bored and pessimistic. But there must be someone out there happy at work.

Id like to ask you if you know of an airline company that has a generally good morale amongst its crews, especially pilots in this case.

Do you know of any - and if so - what are they (both staff and management) doing right?


Cheers:8

[Economics101]

Well if they start their communications to staff with "Gentlemen", then a high propostion are going to be pi**ed off straightaway!

[Agaricus bisporus]

Who objects to being called a Gentleman? What do you prefer, Chavs , You Rabble????

Or are we trying to raise a gender issue here? (in which case it is unlikely to involve a "high proportion")

[Basil]

Gentlemen and gentle women :)

I've always found the degree of happiness at work varies due to a multitude of factors outside the immediate control of the company.
Like many guys, I'm a bit of a techie and like playing with machines and electronic toys and enjoy the 'Atari game' aspect of flying the 'plane. Link that to a penchant for travel, water sports (no, Smithers, not THAT sort!), skiing, pubbing and partying and aircrew (in the RAF sense meaning everyone on the aircraft) becomes a happy choice of career.
Happy all the time? No, of course not, but enough.

Happy bits:
Being the captain.
Decent layover at agreeable port with agreeable crew.
Airline keeps interference to a minimum but keeps aeroplanes fixed.
Supportive chief pilot.
Flt Ops which understands the problem.
Real trainers.
Oh yes, loadsa dosh (in your dreams, Basil).

Unhappy bits:
Being the FO with macho captain, boy captain etc etc.
Cabin chief who pisses off the crew.
Airline with interfering, 'blame culture' ethos.
Airline which doesn't like fixing aircraft.
Underconfident chief pilot.
'Is my face bovvered?' Flt Ops (Thankfully infrequent)
Checkers and choppers (although they DO concentrate the mind).

Assessment of airlines?
I'd hesitate to make any specific adverse comment in public although I can safely say that the two best companies I have worked for were IBM (not as pilot) and BA which I left eleven years ago.
Other airlines were Gulf Air, Caledonian (as the BA charter subsidiary previously BEA Tours Sp? and British Airtours - regrettably not B Cal which I understand was an excellent employer), Cathay, and EAAC.
Some, not necessarily those mentioned, had an unfortunate attitude to employees or a company and training ethos which left a little to be desired, others were a bit unwilling to spend money on spares.

One could go on and on but sorry for being unable to provide a preference list - could be a bit actionable ;)

[saffron]

what is being said i that any missive starting 'gentleman' denotes a certain stridency,arrogance & patronising attitude,usually the sender is ex military & has not adjusted to civvie life even though they left 20 years ago (most ex mil do adjust some don't)

[Basil]

Econ & Saffie,
I'm ex mil and consider 'Gentlemen' or 'Ladies and gentlemen' a perfectly reasonable manner in which to commence an address.
I am also ex shipyards and Merchant Navy and could (and have), if pressed, address a group as 'You :mad:' but that doesn't really fit in with one's age and status and I really prefer the former. ;)

[redsnail]

Funnily enough, the "you :mad:" would at least acknowledge that there are women around. "Gentlemen"... well, I usually think "ex mil" and then read on.

Back to topic.

It's difficult to find the perfect job as we all know. Oh, just reread the topic, it's for airline pilots.. :ugh:

[The SSK]

Isn't the standard answer to the question 'Southwest' ?

Or is all that happy-clappy stuff just a myth ?

[Mister Geezer]

redsnail

Is your employer not regarded as a private airline? :ok:

[redsnail]

Yup, sure is. In the top 10 size wise in Europe and if we combine our US and ME operation, the world's largest airline. :E

As for happiness. I personally am pretty happy with my job. I have a great team of fleet managers looking out for us and the operational office does a pretty good job. Our colleagues are great too.

What do they do right? Well, they back you up with advice when required and will lean on the Schedulers when necessary too. Essentially, effective communication. Our engineers in City and Northolt are fantastic. The engineers we use in Luton and Southampton are excellent as well. Happy to explain stuff.

[milzibkit]

I'm not overly sure how this would apply to the airline industry in general, but I've just completed some research on motivation (read happiness) in construction professionals. It seems generally accepted that for professionals intrinsic factors, like a feeling of achievement, provide greater happiness than materialistic rewards like better wages etc.

But then having been trawling these forums for a while it seems that increasing their wages would be the best way to create happy pilots!

[EjetSetter]

I think the forums attract the unhappy as the happy are out flying right now.

[sweetie76]

Or sharpening their cv:)

[RAFAT]

But then having been trawling these forums for a while it seems that increasing their wages would be the best way to create happy pilots!

We don't all conform to that milzibkit, or perhaps I should have been a builder! :eek:

[saffron]

Dysag, I still stand by my assertion,that any letter beginning 'gentleman' is pompous,(having received many missives beginning this way) they usually go on to lecture,hector or admonish,I have never had a nice letter beginning that way.

[BigginHillBoy]

Dear Saffron. You entertain me with your brilliant detective work "the sender is ex military & has not adjusted to civvie life even though they left 20 years ago". Nothing could be farther from the truth. Never been near anything military, I have a big family and worked for a national flag carrier for years. Dont worry - Im not offended by your comments. Just amused how you come to your conclusions from that word most people relate to as positive. Gentle-men. So back to the subject.

Anyway - thanks Basil for your input to the original question. I think I agree with you in many ways. Salary is of course important (as in any profession), and yes good maintenance of A/C. In my work Ive found that good and supportive communication between management and crews does so much good. From what I understand, that is what Southwest is all about too. I will try to find some literature on that.

My company is good in most ways and we take pride in our work. However, I guess there is always room for improvement so therefore its nice to hear from people with experience in the field.

Thanks ..........Gentlemen and ladies.
:8

[Boomerang]

Was very happy in a regional turboprop out of Sydney (EAA) just had aspirations for something bigger and to be able to pay off a mortgage :)

From some management studies I did a while ago I recall money not being a great motivator (long term) but lack of it could be a great demotivator.

Very happy with my current employer and fellow flightcrew (BA), just the operating base (LHR) and commuting (ok my choice, not their fault) are drawbacks.

[ray cosmic]

Very important: roster stability and the possibility to influence which trips you get.

[Basil]

Ladies and gentlemen:
Just stumbled across this hijacked thread.
Why do some of you react so negatively to 'Military' ?
Would you prefer any tinpot dictator with a few billion dollarsworth of arms to come and take your land?
The foregoing is not a Basil original idea but has been lifted and modified:
Most of the people in our society are sheep. They are kind, gentle, productive creatures who can only hurt one another by accident.
Then there are the wolves, and the wolves feed on the sheep without mercy. There are evil men in this world and they are capable of evil deeds. Criminals within your own society or enemy dictators in foreign lands. There is no safety in denial.
Then there are sheepdogs which live to protect the flock and confront the wolf.
Clearly these are not black and white distinctions. Many of us are sometimes sheep and sometimes sheepdogs. I've spent most of my life as the former but part as the latter.
You've guessed already, haven't you? The police and military are the sheepdogs. Perfect? Nope! . . but the best we have.

[Basil]

ray cosmic,
Yup! Seniority or rotating seniority based bidline.
Those who haven't experienced it would be surprised at how many junior people get a line they've bid for simply because not everyone wants the same trips.
Priorities vary between: money, lifestyle, night flying, destination, triplength, people on the trip, max days off, working midweek or weekends, etc, etc.

[F100 driver]

:) I'm happy. Good airline (KLM), nice airport (AMS), commuting out of that toilet called LHR is a pain but that's my choice to live abroad.

Pay is great and plenty of days off back home with a young family.

Sorry to sound positive to all the doom merchants on here .......

[411A]

Sorry to sound positive to all the doom merchants on here .......

KLM is a fine airline, no apology needed.

As for me, working seasonally is just fine, and especially as they fly me for three months, but pay for five........not a bad deal.
Even better as I'm on a very familiar type...L1011.:)

[sonicguy]

Very happy with Netjets...

Good lifestyle, conditions, live where you want

Life is good!
:cool:

[Fancy Navigator]

:ok: :) All cool where I am.....

[superced]

Very happy with Netjets...

Good lifestyle, conditions, live where you want

Life is good!


but Iam Not sure your pension will be so nice...

[swish266]

Nonexistent

They died a stone age ago. Virgin (the mainland) feels ok, but it gives U piss-pay.

Since awhile pilots have become an attachment to the aircraft. I foresee a halving of the quality of life of ATPL holders in 10 years.
The new generation of airliners will only need a pilot for a hard reset...
:\

[flying jocks]

Good airline, competent management, good lifestyle (pay not bad and predictable roster pattern with lots of days off), home every night (almost) and expanding network. You guessed it, a LOCO with a bright orange sticker on it!

[Ray D'Avecta]

Am with F100 Driver on this one. KLM is the place to be.....:ok:...great pay, nice rosters, nice crews, plenty of time off, part time work available at 80% & 65%....and 'free' commuting to / from work if you live outside Holland too.

..........it all works for me

[F100 driver]

Ray,

You ARE with me on this one (fleet that is....) although we haven't been rostered together yet unfortunately.

Thanks for reminding me about the free commuting tickets - they certainly save a few (hundred) quid every month!

See you back at work next week.

[ATIS]

LUVING it at Monarch. Ex Flybe so nuff said. Averaging 500hrs per year. However a quiet base one year can become quite busy the next year.

Long haul/short haul mix.

Great bunch to fly with (even though cabin crew are having a hard time at the mo, they still know how to smile)

[Mr_Fly_By_Wire]

Airbus short-haul family, no real control over my roster YET, although i like the variety/surprise each month. Lots of night stops, enjoy the lifestyle and i can't complain about the salary either (and i am at the very bottom of the pile). Love it.

Hopefully T5 and LHR will continue to run smoothly.

[INNflight]

Edelweiss Air, Switzerland...long haul ops with their A330.

Only one single aircraft, if it goes tech another is leased in.

Destinations are only the Canaries short / mid haul and the Maledives, Brazil, the Caribbean and Japan (seasonal) long haul.

Most destinations served once or twice a week only, gives the crews a lovely long layover at destination :8 apart from Punta Cana I believe, which is min. rest.

[box]

easyjet:eek: Flying jocks, you got to be jocking!? Just wait til this winter and a few more months and you'll change your mind.

[Ennie]

It all depends on what you want out of life. I flew for KLM for 5 years, did the whole commuting to and from Holland for free, flew the 737 and had a good job. After a few years though commuting on days off and going through security 5-6 times per day, starting early/finishing late, spending 7-8 days at home a month didn't do it for me anymore. I fly for the big orange now and have to say I really enjoy the flying and also the fact that 4 days off means 4days off and not 2 of them putting my uniform on and sitting in the airport waiting for the plane to arrive. Major carriers get slot delays and have to de-ice as well you know! Glad it's still working for my former friends at KLM and I wish them nothing but the best, it just wasn't for me anymore.

[flyburg]

Ennie,

Kerel, I heard you left. Sorry you did, although I can fully understand you wanting to be closer to home and don't want the commuting hassle ( I wished you stayed though until you could hold ICA, I think you would have liked it), With all the KLM UK integration controvercies, you were always able to distinguish fact from fiction, be objective and positive. I wish you all the best at Easy.

I have to concur with the other guys, I think KLM is a great place to work. I just wish career advancement is a little quicker but with a really young pilot group most advancements are from expansion and with the current economic turmoil, it doesn't look good.



as a side note, I fell from the couch when I saw the notorious 411A say something positive about a major airline. Dude, are you okay?;)

[varigflier]

I hate where I am at now(TAM). Definately the worst flying job I've ever had. Bad pay, no CRM, people with attitudes and no communication to management. It's a one way street here. We have no say over our schedules, equipment we fly, days off etc.

[peacekeeper]

Easy has allot of good points, stable roster etc, but a serious lack of good old fashion fun down route as there is rarely any down route time with your crew. I knew this when I joined so only me to blame but I think if we do start doing more regular night stops (for those who want them) it could really improve things. I know allot of people like coming home every night so I may be alone on this. My view is we spend all our time travelling and never get anywhere, which means it's not an airline lifestyle, its a job. Gets a bit depressing.

Can be all to easy to think the grass is greener somewhere else. I think it everyday.

[aztruck]

Ladies and gentlemen, boys and girls and any inbetweenies......
I fly to the land of the ice and snow, to the land of mongol hats and to the strange world of bad ju ju.
5 star Hotels, low rent motels and mossie nets are the order of the night.
Its not bad you know, and above all it is always interesting.
I could have a whinge about several things, but none of them are really earth shattering so I shan't bother.

[jacjetlag]

Greetings you filthy animals.....

I am ecstatic at AA. As long as I am able to ignore our weasel-faced VP of Flt. and get served my ration of crew food, its gets better every day. The paycheck clears every month and me lovely bride is going in for her C-check soon. Only 2555 days 'til retirement.

Nostrovia!:p

[Taxi2parking]

I want a pint of whatever jacjetlag is drinking....:D

oohhh yes I also liked the 'filthy animals' bit as well - avoids all those arguments about gender....;)

[Coffee Black None]

Love it at easy. Especially now on the Italian contract. Low pound doesn't bother me anymore. New planes, nice colleagues, nice paycheck.

[jacjetlag]

Taxi2......
The first round is always on the Captain , a custom that dates back to the Phoenician triremes. I hope it carries on to Ryanair and Easy.:O

[B737NG]

I remember a joke a while ago: Salaries are increasing with immidiate effect to a minimum X-amount of $ / €, everybody cheers on that. Then flying will be restricted on what day? OK after a long discussion that Sunday is bad and Saturday is Sports and Friday is hangout day the conclusion was: No night flights anymore and the flying will be restricted to Wednesday´s only.
WHAT ?!?!?! are you insane?..... You mean every Wednesday?

Where is the perfect world??? show me until then I am happy to be in my Plane and see the Earth 24/7 how it is. I still enjoy the Sunset´s, Moonrise at the same time, the nice chat on 123,45 with someone between 180E/W how the ride is and what we can expect the next 100 mls. Flying northbound in the Summer and see Sunset to the left and Sunrise to the right a few minutes later again. That are moments who those who ty to give me a hard time on the ground never expiriencend in life. Our World has larger problems then the HM Security Officers thinks that my amount of After Shave is too large to carry on......or that the Laptop needs to be screened seperatly because I am the one who threatens the World and want to blow up another Plane. What is important in life? You find out for yourself. You will get more confident and it is easier to work with you and your day is a better day. Have you ever gave poor Children some money on a trip to some Country´s? Did you gave a begger some coins for a meal? That are problems our World has to solve and each of us whiners should swep the dirt on our own doorstep first before we complain how bad the "good" situation is.

[wobble2plank]

B737NG,

Nice reply chap, summed it up quite neatly. :ok:

(However I would still like my 'down-route' emergency fork back after some pimpled security expert informed me it was too dangerous to go on an aircraft! I had to take another one off of my meal tray in the cockpit. How careless of the company to supply them :rolleyes: )

[jacjetlag]

"Taxi2......
The first round is always on the Captain , a custom that dates back to the Phoenician triremes."


PS...it was a necessity, there was no other way to get 200 Greeks rowing the same direction.

[Samuel Adams]

I am sure life was much easier in your previous airline (VARIG), the one that was bled right into bankruptcy by its own employees, pilots included...

Quoting varigflyer: I hate where I am at now(TAM). Definately the worst flying job I've ever had. Bad pay, no CRM, people with attitudes and no communication to management. It's a one way street here. We have no say over our schedules, equipment we fly, days off etc.

[Otterman]

Great to read the positive comments about the Fokker drivers at KLM. I fly the left seat on the 777 at KLM. It is a great job, with lots of time off, on a great aircraft. The destinations are literally all over the map, and are (mostly) fantastic. I am acutely aware, and thankful about how good I have it. I hope it stays that way for the generations following us (my only work related worry).

[varigflier]

Samuel Adams,
I agree with you but I have never worked for VARIG nor did I ever want to. TAM is and will be my first and last job in Brasil. I don't even know why I can back after 2 decades.......

[jacjetlag]

S.Adams...

Since when did employees start writing the checks? Isn't that a management function?:=

[flying jocks]

Box,

Not sure what bee got under your bonnet, I am of course talking the present and not the future. If the analysts are correct this thread may well take a different tone in 6-12 months time!:ouch:

[Samuel Adams]

Quote Jacjetlag: Since when did employees start writing the checks? Isn't that a management function?

Management personnel are also employees, aren't they? Or is it different in the P.R.C.?

Varigflyer: with a nickname like yours I assumed you are ex-RG. My mistake.

[jacjetlag]

"Management personnel are also employees, aren't they? Or is it different in the P.R.C.?"

To answer your question, technically, yes. At the upper levels, they are also thieves.

At my company (AA) management writes the checks and determines the amount. They gave us a big paycut and then took $300 million for themselves. This has created prodigious amounts of bad juju amongst the employees.

What, are you a manager or something? If so, enjoy this life...the next one won't be pretty.

Back to the thread.....I'm ecstatically happy at work as long as I don't think about the afore-mentioned BS.