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davidatter708
12th Mar 2006, 21:48
Does anyone out there know what is happening to Llanbedr (Wales)

jimgriff
12th Mar 2006, 22:32
The fire cover has gone and the mega machines are for sale at £250,000 each.
The fire dump has been cleared.
All the Jindi's have gone as has the control appuratus for them.

All in all it's looking very sad and desolate.:{

GK430
13th Mar 2006, 08:28
What are the mega machines?

Was there a Phantom left up there?:)

proplover
15th Mar 2006, 18:55
Flew over there a couple of weeks ago, big X's on all the runways and taxiways.
Fought hard and resisted urge to do touch and go on that lovely long main runway!

davidatter708
15th Mar 2006, 19:58
thanks guys what mega machines?? Somewhere i heard it may be going to a private airfield is that rubbish or not?? any one got a clue

READY MESSAGE
15th Mar 2006, 22:25
It's for sale if any one wants it. Reverts back to farmland if a buyer isn't found. Shame to waste those lovely runways. It closed in Nov 2004 although is still shown as active on the current chart, maybe they'll get it right on the new one. Everything has been stripped from the place, from radar units to fire extinguishers & filing cabinets - all gone.

sss
15th Mar 2006, 22:35
It's for sale if any one wants it.


is it on ebay :hmm:

READY MESSAGE
15th Mar 2006, 22:43
not as far as i know, but it may well come to that! It's been for sale since the end of 2004.

sss
16th Mar 2006, 11:04
Llanbedr
Address:
Llanbedr
Llanbedr
Gwynedd

Area Hectares: 230

Existing Property Type: Mixed

Expected Planning Use: Industrial

Grid Ref:

Type of Sale: Other Govt Dept/Public Body Expected Sale Date: Mar-06

Current Situation:Under offer

well, they expect to sell Mar-06 so it may have a new owner soon

jimgriff
16th Mar 2006, 12:41
The MEGA MACHINES are the huge airport type fire engines which are for sale at a well known Govt vehicles seller.
£1/4 Million each....low mileage

GK430
16th Mar 2006, 19:02
jimgriff

Crikey, thought you could buy a new Boughton 6 wheeler for around that price!

...but wasn't there a Phantom there once upon a time. I flew over about two years ago but couldn't see one, but was told it/they were hangared.

Go on spill the beans - it's history now!

Hen Ddraig
23rd Mar 2006, 13:02
Place looked totally deserted when I flew over yesterday.

Time to spare, go by air

Hen Ddraig

tangovictor
23rd Sep 2007, 13:58
I wonder whats happened to llanbedr ? I know it was for sale
did it get sold ? can you land there ? now the mod have moved out ?
tv

High Winger
23rd Sep 2007, 18:48
I flew over last Sunday. Big white crosses on all runways. Shame really as it's so close to some rather nice beaches.

Hen Ddraig
29th Sep 2007, 23:26
Llanbedr is closed. It is currently on the market. The Welsh Assembly Government is looking to sell it on a 125 year lease with covenants that it must be used for commercial aviation :Oand provision must be made for the operation of UAVs:ooh: from the site.
Rumour has it they are looking for £12-13million.:*

Time to spare, go by air.

Hen Ddraig

tangovictor
30th Sep 2007, 00:12
Thanks for the info, only 12 mill huh, if I win the euro lottery it will be my gift to UK aviation

rotorboater
3rd Oct 2007, 15:25
12 million but its got to remain an airfield for an area where there is very little commercial business possibility - That Welsh assembly are living in a dream land - actually they need the money to build their dream house don't they!

Remind me who owns the airfield anyway, sureley the MoD belongs to us!

Hen Ddraig
4th Oct 2007, 00:33
MOD transfered ownership to WAG in 2003. They have been trying to shift it quietly ever since, but have had no success. So now it's in the hands of an estate agency.

WAG has always lived in a dream world, so nothing has changed there.


Time to spare, go by air

Hen Ddraig

llanfairpg
7th Feb 2008, 12:48
Anyone know what is going on at Llanbedr?
The manager of Kemble, David Young was seen up there this week!

All bids for the site, which now has to remain an airfield, were supposed to be in by the end of last year.

'Chuffer' Dandridge
7th Feb 2008, 13:19
Blimey....

Now lets see, David Young goes to Llanbedr, is there a story there?:E

Windy Militant
7th Feb 2008, 13:59
In which case Blaenannerch Intergalactic, er I mean Aberporth, er no I mean West Wales Airport will be getting some competition then. ;)

So the stories of the site at Llanbedr being leveled to the ground and the runways broken up up and sold for road fill were a bit premature then?

llanfairpg
7th Feb 2008, 22:55
According to the Welsh development office the site must be retained as an airfield for the benefit of the community!

DX Wombat
7th Feb 2008, 23:05
That's excellent news LL. :D :D :D I must fly in there sometime when it is up and running. :)

llanfairpg
7th Feb 2008, 23:17
Yes being next to Shell Island (one of the best camping sites in the UK) it will be popular and no you cant take your caravan!

DX Wombat
7th Feb 2008, 23:21
no you cant take your caravan!:{ :{ :{
I also have a tent :E

Windy Militant
8th Feb 2008, 09:04
What not even Cessna Caravans! :}

FullyFlapped
8th Feb 2008, 11:43
I'd love to drop in, but I don't know how to pronounce "Llanbedr" ! :{:{:p

Fullllyfllllapped

Windy Militant
8th Feb 2008, 15:20
Seasy EGOD or you could try here for some help BBC Cymru Catch Phrase (http://www.suite101.com/external_link.cfm?elink=http://www.bbc.co.uk/wales/catchphrase/catchphrase1/gwers1-1.shtml) :ok:

gyrotyro
8th Feb 2008, 16:02
According to the Welsh Development Agency David Young is their preferred bidder to buy the airfield. They are not looking for other buyers !

llanfairpg
8th Feb 2008, 17:22
Thanks thats what I hoped someone would say!

Daifly
9th Feb 2008, 14:17
It's quite simple really:

"Llan" as in, well, if you're Welsh, you'll know that bit. If you're English just say "Clan" a bit quick - it's nothing like it really, but blame it on the radio...

Bed - as in, well, bed.

R - "Urrr..."

Clan-bed-urrrr. Sort of thing....

(And take some tissues to mop up the phlegm).

-Seriously, it's great to hear it will hopefully be kept as an airfield, I used to fly over it whilst doing my PPL and always thought it was a shame to not be able to (easily) use it. Hopefully now it will be handy for a day at the seaside!!

vee-tail-1
9th Feb 2008, 18:07
Great news, huge runway at Llanbedr! ...now lots of airfields and very little CAS in Wales...but look out for UAVs at Aberporth. Also check out the ditched P38 on the beach near Llanbedr. Hope David starts another GA base there.:)

KeyPilot
10th Feb 2008, 00:19
Some very good news about Llanbedr will be made public soon. Which is nice, as GA could do with some!

DX Wombat
10th Feb 2008, 09:19
now lots of airfields and very little CAS in WalesNot forgetting lots of fast (and some slower) noisy, pointy things from Ynys Mon. :E

Daifly
10th Feb 2008, 22:44
Ynys Mon

That's: Un (as in "undone") - iss (as in "miss") and Mon ("mourn").

I hope some of you are learning this for the first time you cross the border.... :E

DX Wombat
10th Feb 2008, 23:07
Another very important word to learn is "Heddlu" (http://www.caa.co.uk/applicationmodules/ginfo/ginfo_photo.aspx?regmark=G-NWPS&imgname=G-NWPS001&imgtype=jpg)aka Plod. :\
NO! It's NOT pronounced "Head Loo". Try to work it out. :E

FullyFlapped
11th Feb 2008, 00:20
Is it true that the UAVs have recently been endangered by mysterious female creatures in pointy hats flying broomsticks ?

Or am I in the wrong fairy tale here ?

Yak-ee-dah, there's lovely, saucepan-Bach etc etc

:ok:

BristolScout
13th Feb 2008, 11:21
No UAVs in unrestricted airspace yet. Only to be found in the West Wales Airport Restricted Area (Temporary), 6nm radius from aerodrome datum, up to 5000 feet. WWA very happy to see GA aircraft when UAVs not flying, which is most of the time. Don't be put off by Danger Area D201 - there's an agreement with Aberporth Range for the airport to operate normally up to one nm north of the 08/26 centreline (all circuits to the south). Lovely airfield, lovely people.

HappyTrails
15th Feb 2008, 09:58
My favourite is "Ambwilance", :confused: work that out !

DX Wombat
15th Feb 2008, 10:49
HT, I think you'll find that is "Ambiwlans" ;)

Johnm
15th Feb 2008, 14:00
Heddlu = Hethli ?????

DX Wombat
15th Feb 2008, 18:38
Heddlu = Hethli ????? :ok: :ok: :D

Keef
15th Feb 2008, 20:20
Da iawn!

Last time I went near Llanbedr, the ATC there got all shirty because my left wingtip was over the sea, so in the Mil zone.

Hen Ddraig
26th Feb 2008, 09:47
Welsh Assembly Government announced yesterday that Kemble team are the prefered bider for Llanbedr airfield.
There are already initial plans for an open day and small airshow on August 20

This sounds like good news for GA:ok:


Hen Ddraig

Time to spare,go by air

DX Wombat
26th Feb 2008, 10:16
Good news indeed.:D :D :D

taliesyn
26th Feb 2008, 13:31
Here you go guys http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/north_west/7264543.stm :)

Looks like it's all gone ahead :)

Blink182
26th Feb 2008, 15:23
Have to start the Round Wales Route flight planning for later in the year.....
Great News !

BBC report here.........

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/north_west/7264543.stm

Windy Militant
26th Feb 2008, 19:29
Let's hope that they've got the planning sorted out properly this time!
Still, not so many posh Nimbies round there to complain as in the Cotswolds!!

Air show in August Bendigedig! Have to get along to that one. :D:ok:

chevvron
26th Feb 2008, 20:35
Yeah but don't get too close to PortMeirion, there's a big met balloon that will jump up and bite you (and try to take you Prisoner)

Windy Militant
27th Feb 2008, 22:58
The Rovers are No Problem but don't scoff at met balloons. When I was an apprentice at Aberporth I helped install a new hydrogen feed line into the Balloon shed. The guy who used to launch the balloons showed us some pictures of what happens if it goes wrong, scary stuff. Especially the before and after shots of a balloon shed. The after shots looked like a prefab garage base, two courses of bricks around a concrete base! He also told us that the sheds are always built with a door at either end. You launch from the leeward side and you always stand in the opening when inflating the balloon. This point was driven home to him by the met office instructor who had found himself coming to fifty feet away from the shed with nothing on but his boots! :eek:
Do they still use Hydrogen these days or does Elf and Safety make them use helium?

Windy Militant
18th Apr 2008, 10:17
The Nimbys strike again! Park airport 'pollution threat' (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/north_west/7346179.stm):ugh:

Supersport
18th Apr 2008, 11:12
The Nimbys strike again! Park airport 'pollution threat' (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/north_west/7346179.stm):ugh:

Was bound to happen sooner or later, its statements like this that make me giggle:

"We have been told that the deal has not yet been signed and before Snowdonia is subjected to 125 years of aircraft noise and climate-changing pollution we think these matters should be subject to full public scrutiny"

Not OK for aircraft, but OK for the caravan club in their big 4X4's and such like, having barbeques on a nice summers evening. Mr Pugh is obviously very misinformed, which is concerning as he is an ex-minister, I guess he just hasn't seen the figures for what Global Aviation actually adds to the atmosphere pollution wise, looks like he's decided to make some up of his own.

Hen Ddraig
18th Apr 2008, 16:05
Mr Pugh and the Snowdonia society are totally introverted, they could never see the benefits that a working airfield could bring. Investment in the area, permanent full time skilled jobs and an increase in visitor numbers. All of which help to boost the local economy.

Hen Ddraig

Time to spare, go by air

Ken Wells
18th Apr 2008, 19:27
Very pleased to hear it is going to remain an Airfield apparently the local council want to make it work.

Llanbedr Airfield near Harlech, Gwynedd, has been offered on a 125 year lease by the Welsh Assembly Government, who acquired it in 2006.

The airfield was built in 1938 and was used during World War II. It was closed in 2004.

Ieuan Wyn Jones, minister for the economy and transports, said the Kemble team had an established track record of successfully operating a private airport as well as a business park.

"We were looking for an operator that could successfully bring a disused and decommissioned military airfield back into commercial use, and to maximise the economic benefits to the local community," he said.


A mate of mine owns a farm near there and flys a Cub having Llanbedr as a GA base will be great beautiful countryside and a nice alternative to Caernavon.

As long as Wille Walsh isn't involved it should be fine!
Cymru am byth !

Sir George Cayley
18th Apr 2008, 21:48
Wot abart the thousands of motor bicyclists who zoom around North Wales each weekend. Wonder what their carbon footprints lool like.

Kemble-by-Sea sounds great. Few static caravans on the dispersals for holiday lets sounds like a money spinner to me.

Sir George Cayley

Ken Wells
18th Apr 2008, 22:05
Air Park UK, about time!

BRL
18th Apr 2008, 22:42
Whatever happened to the thread-strarter 'llanfairpg'?????

rustyflyer
19th Apr 2008, 10:15
And what about all the lovely little steam trains that huff & puff round Snowdonia? Bet one trip on the Ffffffestiniog generates as much CO2 as a months worth of GA would.
Also do you think the cultured Mr Pugh will tell the military not to drive their noisy smelly toys round the nearby Mach loop? :=

Silly Man

Looking forward to a nice £100 cup of coffee there.....

R

Negative 'G'
20th May 2008, 08:32
Any news on when Llanbedr is actually opening to GA traffic ?

Neg G:)

thesandfly
20th May 2008, 22:06
I wonder if it ever does open will we witness the rise and then the fall of what should be a wonderful new facility.
Just look what has happened at Kemble over the last half dozen years. Three grass runways, two removed just the the one bumpy one left. A perfect taxi way that ran right round the field, now all gone. Two first class hard runways, only one left. A pleasant little cafe providing basic fare ideal for the visiting pilot, now a rather grand and expensive alternative. It was once a fun stop off but now ....
I do hope that the "management" from Kemble are able to provide for GA a facility of value and not another under used (at least by aviators) industrial estate that will turn out to be merely a mirage of hope.

Hen Ddraig
22nd May 2008, 11:59
Current position.
Against reopening we have:=
The Snowdonia society (chairman Alun Pugh Ex member of the Welsh Assembly), Brecon Beacons Park society, Friends of The Pembrokeshire National Park and Flintshire County councillor Klaus Armstrong Braun (environmental campaigner, lives next door to Airbus at Hawarden)
Alun Pugh is reported to have now made a case to the Welsh Assembly against the reopening on environmental grounds and is threatening an application for a judicial review if the airfield is leased to the Kemble group.

In favour of reopening we have:O
The Welsh Assembly Government, Gwynd County Council, Dyffryn & Talybont Community Council and Elfyn Llwyd the MP for the area.
They see the benefits of reopening in terms of full time permanent jobs and increased tourism.
There have been no objections raised by the Snowdonia National Park Authority.
Plans are still afoot for a flyin;) and small airshow:ok: on August 20th (yes it's a wednesday, but this is Wales)

Hen Ddraig

Time to spare, go by air

vee-tail-1
22nd May 2008, 18:30
Hen Ddraig

Do you have any links to send letters of support?

Hen Ddraig
22nd May 2008, 19:28
VT
Nice to see common sense has prevailed at EGFE over insurance:O, I'll come and visit again now.:ok:

For Llanbedr I have no specific link but it may help if some support is shown for Ieuan Wyn Jones AM. Deputy First Minister and Minister for Economy and Transport
He is dealing with the lease from the WAG end and getting all the flak from the conservationists

his email is [email protected]

Hen Ddraig

Time to spare, go by air

DX Wombat
15th Jun 2008, 10:11
Part of the programme will be an investigation into the opening of a "Commercial Airport in Snowdonia". I'll try to watch it but may have to go out before it is aired.

moggiee
15th Jun 2008, 16:53
It was interesting to see that most of the locals they spoke to were "pro". Most of the "antis" seemed to be visitors (for whom local jobs were not important?).

If you missed it, it will be on BBC iplayer.

[Hope this link works] (http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/page/item/b00c4y3c.shtml?filter=txdate%3A15-06&filter=txslot%3Amorning&start=1&scope=iplayerlast7days&version_pid=b00c4xy3)

Pro-airport local residents? It would never happen around here (EGBO), would it?

DX Wombat
15th Jun 2008, 21:06
Pro-airport local residents? It would never happen around here (EGBO), would it? Perish the thought! They would be fainting in lumps at the very idea. Hmm, now there's an interesting idea. :E :E :E

BritishPPL
16th Jun 2008, 11:04
The piece (link in post 2) starts at 7mins 15secs and goes to 15mins 30 secs.

sammypilot
30th Jul 2008, 19:41
Does anybody have the latest information on this airfield please, i.e. is it going to open or not?

Legal Beagle
19th Aug 2008, 21:15
Anyone any more news on when Llanbedr hopes to open its doors to visitors?

Wasn't there an idea of a fly-in sometinme during August?

Hoping to visit as soon as possible. Thanks.

BRL
19th Aug 2008, 22:55
So does anyone know if 'llanfairpg' is still about?

He has not posted or visited the site since early March and has just vanished. He had quite a lot to contribute then suddenly nothing at all.

Always a concern when this happens so does anyone keep in touch with him or know if he is alright?

Hen Ddraig
16th Dec 2008, 14:56
The Welsh Assembly Govenrment has today finally given the goahead to the deal for Kemble air services to reopen Llanbedr as a civil/commercial airfield.

Time to spare, go by air

Hen Ddraig

Legal Beagle
18th Dec 2008, 14:01
Good news.

But are Kemble still interested? They were on the news a while ago saying that with all the delay they were reviewing their plans.

It will be interesting to see what happens next.

cyclic_fondler
23rd Apr 2009, 11:54
I found this update in "Harmless Sky Climate, the countryside and landscapes"
I guess it's a case if Kemble still have the money and it's still a sound financial project.

CF

Harmless Sky - Climate, the countryside and landscapes Llanbedr Airfield (http://ccgi.newbery1.plus.com/blog/?cat=48)

March 23rd, 2009
Llanbedr Airfield Update
By TonyN

In December, the Welsh Assembly Government finally gave the go-ahead for Kemble’s take-over of the Llanbedr Airfield. Now only the matter of planning permission has to be resolved before Kemble can, at last, begin operations. This will involve either an application for change of use, which will be considered by the Snowdonia National Park Authority’s Planning Committee, or the granting of a Certificate of Lawful Use by their legal department.The Snowdonia Society has vowed to continue their campaign to torpedo Kembles efforts to bring the airfield back to life, but here is the opening of an opinion piece on the Snowdonia Society’s website by Rob Colllister, one of the society’s trustees:

So, the first battle over Llanbedr airfield has been fought and lost. The Assembly Government will lease the land of the old RAF base to Kemble Ltd and the Snowdonia National Park Authority will without doubt grant permission for it to be re-opened as a civilian airport. From it tourists will be able to take scenic flights over Snowdon and politicians and businessmen will look forward to flying to Cardiff or Dublin. Out of this lamentable affair, two depressing truths emerge.

Llanbedr - a personal view :: Snowdonia National Park (http://www.snowdonia-society.org.uk/news.php?n_id=44)

If we set aside the unsubstantiated claim that Llanbedr airfield is about to become an ‘airport’, what are the ‘depressing truths’ that the Snowdonia Society alone seem to be lamenting? In Rob Collister’s view these are Assembly Government’s lack of doctrinaire rigour in its commitment to save the planet and an ambivalent attitude on the part of some Welsh politicians towards the role of national parks.

Supersport
23rd Jul 2009, 00:22
I heard lots of positivity about Llanbedr possibly re-opening as a civillian airport earlier in the year, now all seems to have gone quiet. I do remember reading somewhere about possible planning permission issues, but it wasn't clear if it was a real sticking point or just a crease which needed ironing out.

I'm just itching to have another field in the Snowdonia area to fly into other than good old Caernarfon (which is looking good nowadays by the way!).

SS

Johnm
23rd Jul 2009, 09:59
Kemble is still interested in Llanbedr but they postponed activity until their planning issue at Kemble was sorted. I'd expect them to turn their attention to Llanbedr fairly soon.

bubblesuk
9th Aug 2009, 22:48
I have just returned from holidaying in Llanbedr with the girlfriend type person and runway 23 has been re-tarmacced and there was vehiculer activity on the airfield.

LTNman
19th Sep 2009, 16:06
So apart from being a possible location for scrapping airliners what are the plans for this corner of Wales?

Can't see a local flying club paying all the bills

Hen Ddraig
12th Nov 2009, 13:52
Snowdonia National Park Authority have now refused Llanbedr Airfield Estates a certificate of lawful use.

pianydd
12th Nov 2009, 15:12
More details of this atrocity at the BBC website.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/wales_politics/8356566.stm

Supersport
13th Nov 2009, 01:10
Bit of a shame really isn't it? Seems like this has been going on forever. I guess we'll have to wait a while longer to see if a appeal / new request is made. :(

Oldpilot55
13th Nov 2009, 01:54
It would seem that in an area of high unemployment those without work are to continue in that state due to the narrow mindedness of those in command.

2high2fastagain
14th Nov 2009, 12:19
Perhaps those fine chaps at Kemble should go for a couple of Nuclear Power Stations on the site instead.....planning permission is soooo much easier these days.

But seriously, the real need is to get jobs into struggling areas such as these. I really hope the local community win out in the end.

POBJOY
16th Nov 2009, 01:11
The fine chaps at Kemble know all about the workings of "local authorities".
They have only just seen off their own local planning nerds in yet another gross waste of public time and money.
These "authorities" happily play judge and jury with "our" money yet provide no real input into providing real jobs "other than their own".
Llanbedr has been an active aerodrome since the war,it has never been abandoned,and any activity there would be entirely in keeping with its "airfield" status.
Aircraft arriving and departing the area would have no impact on the National park,and in fact the "real locals " welcome the jobs and business the venture would bring in.
Snowdonia relies on the tourist trade to survive,and this means any travel to the area will consume energy.To suggest that the relatively few aircraft using the facility would upset the "carbon footprint" is a joke.
I suspect that Llanbedr is like Perranporth in Cornwall. That airfield was never abandoned and needed no planning permission to continue in civilian use.
As i see it llanbeder was sold as an airfield,and in planning terms that is what it is,and perhaps Kemble should start landing a few machines there to proove the point.
They may well need permissions for "change of use " for some of the buildings to industrial concerns,but this could not be refused.
I suggest they go back to the people in Cardiff and deal with them direct, as the local authority seem to have less sense than the numerous sheep in the area.
Pobjoy
(no sheep jokes please)

Ye Olde Pilot
17th Nov 2009, 10:40
It will be interesting to see how The Kemble people use the site if they manage to succeed.

One thing is for sure and that is GA will not be capable of suporting whatever investment they propose. This is an airfield on the edge of nowhere with high ground to the east and terrible weather for a large part of the year. If Cardiff cannot support a flying club then this place has no chance.

As for industrial use then forget it. The roads to Llanbedr mean it offers little for industry.

I suspect the real plan is to dismantle time expired passenger aircraft but there are better places than this to set up such an operation.

vee-tail-1
17th Nov 2009, 18:52
Curious... where I live and fly doesnt seem like 'nowhere' and the WX is no worse and frequently better than the rest of UK.
There are many possible scenarios for Llanbedr, which like the rest of rural Wales has very well defined Winter & Summer seasons. Industrial enterprises which have low environmental impact are possible, and would give much needed local employment. The summer tourist season is an obvious use, with local accomodation, tours, visits etc.
The proximity to superb beaches and mountains and rural countryside, would suggest to me the most fabulous location for a flyers village.
The prospect of living with your aeroplane at your front door on a plot at Llanbedr makes my mouth water. :ok:

POBJOY
20th Nov 2009, 00:19
I did a quick phone around this week to find out the latest situation up there in North Wales.
It appears that despite the fact that the "real" locals welcome the airfield opening up a certain individual who is involved with the Snowdon Society is using the society to pursue his own agenda in keeping aviation out.
Also the local planning authority "Snowdonia National Park Authority" having had no real previous experience in dealing with an aerodrome ,used an outside legal planning consultant to deal with the applications from the Kemble team.
However the S N P A were not aware that their legal consultant was the very person who advised the Cotswold Councils in the actions against Kemble.
So there we are, a flawed legal input together with severe lobbying from an employee of the Snowdon Society using the framework of the society without its general members input, and chaos reigns supreme.
The members and officers of the S N P A have now been informed of the "poor" history of their advice,and one hopes this may well help to sort the problem.
Lee Paul now hopes some common sense will enter the fray and progress made.
Llanbedr would make a superb location to visit the stunning local area,and the locals will be very pleased to provide facilities for those doing so to enjoy the visit.
The Kemble team deserve all the support required to progress the situation,and we should be pleased that this "aviation friendly" team are keen to see it through.
Pobjoy

SWBKCB
21st Nov 2009, 16:40
What advantages would Llanbedr have for scrapping airliners - once dismantled you've still got move all the bits somewhere so why not use somewhere more accessible??

Hyperborean
22nd Nov 2009, 15:47
Why would anyone want it as an airfield? Well, you could ask the same question about Oban. In both cases the answer is beautiful location. The more pertinent question is, do sufficient numbers of ga owners/operators/fliers want to go there? I think that commercially the answer is no. In the case of Argyll the local authority seem to be keen to subsidise the infrastructure in Wales perhaps not.

Oldpilot55
22nd Nov 2009, 16:22
Oban thrived due to the attitude of Paul Keegan and wilted once the heavy handed rule of the local council took over. Classic.
I am sure Llanbedr will do very well under the folk from Kemble who seem to have their finger on the pulse of aeronautical activities.

Ye Olde Pilot
22nd Nov 2009, 16:42
But whatever their success at Kemble I doubt there will be 50 GA movements a day at Llanbedr. The local population is only 1,005 and this includes Llanfair & Llandanwg

Perhaps they are chasing grants fro the EEC for remote area's?

Oldpilot55
22nd Nov 2009, 16:52
Oban could get 50 movements on a fine sunny weekend..OK, I accept that they might struggle on cold winter weekdays but you don't spend zillions on an airfield if all you are hoping to collect are landing fees and the bacon butty takings. I like the idea of low key industrial units in areas of chronic unemployment.

Cows getting bigger
22nd Nov 2009, 17:03
Maybe they could convince that lot at Aberporth Airfield to move their UAVs to a far more sensible location. :}

Ye Olde Pilot
22nd Nov 2009, 17:07
Most unemployment in this part of Wales is caused by the seasonal nature of the infrastructure. Without going in to the local politics there is a large groundswell of local opinion in this Welsh speaking area opposed to the transient nature of the incomers who buy up cottages that are unoccupied outside the summer season.

Local kids are priced out while large parts of the villages are locked up which does not support the school or local shop/pub.

Wales is like Scotland and Cornwall...ruggedly attractive during the summer but
deserted in winter.

While as a pilot I support any airfield operation I suspect the business model here is more than GA.

vee-tail-1
22nd Nov 2009, 17:32
<< I'm 100% for GA at Llanbedr but would oppose any major commercial or housing on the site and support any opposition to that type of development.>>

So you would oppose a flyers village? Why? :confused:

Ye Olde Pilot
22nd Nov 2009, 17:39
Full of second home owner and outsiders who make no long term commitment to the community and empty in winter just like all the other local villages:ok:

There are two sides of the fence in villages like this. The wealthy retired ( I'm in that bracket but not in Wales) and the young locals who just see the villages being bought up and the rich peoples toys in harbours like Portmadoc where once there were cargo boats carrying slate.

Llanbedr will just be another Portmadoc.

If you live in this part of Wales then I'm sure you appreciate this is not Kemble. Gloucestershire is wealthy.
The local politics here are strong and there is major opposition to the concept of this part of the UK being just another theme park.

If you speak Welsh then phone in to Radio Cymru tomorrow and ask what the opinion is on an English Airpark at Llanbedr. I say English because you'd be hard pushed to find locals who can afford to fly!

POBJOY
23rd Nov 2009, 00:44
Whatever organisation takes on Llanbedr they will have to negotiate with the Snowdon National Park Authority for any "non aviation" use.
A derelict aerodrome provides no employment,and hardly enhances the National Park,and an airpark would not detract from the area,even if this could get permission.
I remember Portmadoc when there was about six boats in the harbour,and they did not create much employment either,as the "slate trade" from the harbour finished before the war.In fact the last commercial ship to be seen on a regular basis was the "Florence Cooke" when she collected explosives from the now "closed" factory at Penryn.
The real locals would be pleased to see activity at Llanbedr, and the
extra employment would be a bonus to the area as it is in "Portmadoc".
Then again perhaps the location would be an ideal place to build an extra prison!!!!
Holiday homes and pleasure boats are a fact of life and will not change whatever happens near Harlech, however if a company is prepared to put some effort into running an operation in the area then we should be pleased that it gives another potential facility,and not prejudge what the locals can afford.
The interesting facts are that the people who were born and live in the area have no problem with the airfield, however a certain individual using the Snowdon Society as a soapbox, is spending a considerable ammount of time lobbying against any progress to the airfields future,and possibly using the Society to persue a personal agenda!!!.
Support Kemble, they are proven GA friendly,and deserve a chance to bring some real jobs into the area.
Pobjoy

sammypilot
23rd Nov 2009, 11:41
Can Phil Space enlighten me (us) about Swansea. Last time we visited we couldn't even get a cup of tea. It was closed in all respects other than the collection landing fees. A great shame as there have been times in the past when it was friendly, welcoming and had a good food service. With Cardiff no longer GA friendly perhaps there is a strong case for Llanbedt to reopen.

cockney steve
23rd Nov 2009, 12:35
Maybe i'm being a bit naive,but here goes.

The airfield has" established use".....I understand that after a period of time has elapsed without exercising this "use",this right can be rescinded.-possibly it doesn't relate to Crown Property.....but i'm assuming the Kemble folk were wired-up enough to fly-in for their exploratory negotiations.....that's enough to continue the "use"

The figures may not stack-up at Cardiff, but this can be due to ;-
higher labour rates
higher ground-cost per acre
higher infrastructure-costs
higher Local-Authority Rates/charges
Lower utilisation of peripheral buildings (lower rental-income)

IF (and it's a big IF ) Llanbedr could attract sufficient commercial tenants, they would effectively subsidise the "airfield" side of the site,whilst that side will be attracting business to the specialised commercial services.

Though this airfield IS in "the middle of nowhere" (yup, stayed nearby when it was an active Mil. base) the runways and support buildings are likely to have many years of life left, therefore the costs would be massively lower than a scratch-built facility.

It does concern me that ,from a strategic viewpoint, successive governments have been destroying the option of alternative flying-sites....concentrating all your eggs in a few major baskets seems to be handing the enemy a victorious strike, on a plate The strength of our defence capability surely lay in the fragmented nature of our resources ensuring that any one airfield only held a small proportion of our total resources..

In conclusion,- the "greens" must accept that the prescence of industry (IE jobs that actually enrich the local economy) supplies and maintains the "public-service" infrastructure that allows them the enjoyment of these otherwise hostile,wild and uninhabitable parts of this island. Also, the pollution from any GA activity (including the flying-in of airliners for dismantling! ) is likely to be far less than that created by the former occupants of the site, to whom it would have been a minor consideration.

POBJOY
23rd Nov 2009, 23:58
Hyperborean knows why llanbedr is a great location,it is because it is ideally situated to access the splendor of North Wales and Snowdonia.
Whilst i have had many happy hours over the "flat lands of the east" it does not compare to the mountains,rivers, lakes, harbours,and beaches of North Wales, and Llanbedr has a train and bus service that can take you into the heart of the area a few minutes after landing.
Why waste your precious money going somewhere for a cup of tea when you can use the flight to get you to some really spectacular scenery.
You may need to plan your journey to go around the mountains at times, but at least you will be going somewhere that is well worth the visit.With a main line train service,bus links, and the nearby world famous narrow guage railway from Portmadoc it is a realistic visit that can avoid using a car.
I live in the West Country,so appreciate why we attract many visitors,but Snowdonia has the added advantage of its mountains and some of the least spoilt areas in the UK.
The locals want the airfield to reopen,so in my book that says it all.
Pobjoy

Sir George Cayley
24th Nov 2009, 18:10
Can I suggest that until we hear from the person who signed the contract and paid the money to buy Llanbedr, we're all just exercising our jaws (or fingers)

I don't care what aviation activity is planned, I'm just happy to think warm thoughts towards those with the courage to try.

Yes, some accommodation for visiting pilots would be great; West Wales has a secret micro climate that is never mentioned - so don't tell everyone.

Maybe, someone with loadsa money and fast ex-mil jets want's somewhere to play. Fine by me so long as when I get round to checking a backlog of lottery tickets they might let me play:ok:

Sir George Cayley

Hen Ddraig
25th Nov 2009, 00:10
When Llanbedr was transferred from the MOD to the WGA among the conditions were that the site must be maintained as an airfield and that it should not be used for housing.

There are some potential users based at Valley, 19(R) and 208(R) squadrons, they currently fly circuits at Valley, Mona and Hawarden I'm sure they would be only to pleased to have access to Llanbedr.


Time to spare, go by air

Hen Ddraig

Johnm
25th Nov 2009, 17:21
I think you'll find that sadly no-one has any plans for Llanbedr, least of all the Snowdonia Society who seem to want to pickle it in aspic and forget its industrial past and aren't greatly worried about the future.

I'm no ancient but I am old enough to remember travelling around the area with my father who was doing a roaring trade selling steel wire rope for huge excavators in vast quarries in the National Park, quite a few of them thar hills ain't made by nature:ugh:

Most of the roofs in Northern England came from Snowdonia! Why do you think there's a port at Madoc and railway leading to it?

airborne_artist
25th Nov 2009, 18:04
Why do you think there's a port at Madoc and railway leading to it?

To entertain the tourists? :ok:

POBJOY
26th Nov 2009, 01:55
Phil Space, you really should check the facts before sounding off about what the Kemble people should have done re their attempt to run llanbedr Airfield.
Point one, is the Snowdonia Society are not an elected body that represent the locals. They are a minority group that whilst in the main only have the interests of Snowdonia as their cause, they however have (certain parties) involved who are persuing their own agenda against the use of llanbedr.
If you speak to the real locals around llanbedr "the ones who have lived there for some time,and speak Welsh" a different picture emerges.

Point two is the situation regarding the " legal advice " sought by the local planning authority in respect of the requirements for the use of llanbedr as an airfield.
It appears that they were advised by the same "advisor" as Cotswold Council;s ill fated attempt to restrict operations at Kemble.
The big question is what was the coincidence that led the SNPA to choose the legal advice they had (answers on a post please)

When i spoke to planners at the SNPA they did not know that their advisor had advised Cotswold,and that the case prooved an expensive disaster for that authority.
As llanbedr has never been abandoned in planning terms,and was offered for sale by the government as an airfield,there is considerable doubt that planning is required for "airfield use".
"Change of use" would be required for use of surplus buildings for light industry,but no one has a problem with that,and the jobs created would be very welcome in the area.
It is no wonder that GA has such a struggle to exist at all, when the people who should be supporting the provision of facilities seem hell bent on pouring scorn on a proven company that is trying to do something.
The Snowdonia Society quote just shows the arrogance that these people have to set themselves "unelected as they are" to (advise) the elected body that actually has the responsibility to deal with this matter.Speak to the locals and deal with reality.
AS i said before WHO was the link for the legal advice!!!
Pobjoy

Ni Thomas
26th Nov 2009, 16:12
Phil Space Said,
Quote
"I t was the only airfield in Wales including military and RAF Aberporth that would never allow civilian aircraft to visit." Unquote

I beg to differ - In 1987 I was offered the chance to land and park there for a weekend - Unfortunately the weather said "No" and I missed the opportunity. :*

Hyperborean
26th Nov 2009, 16:42
Quite. Phil Space is wrong on several counts. Llanbedr had other uses before, and during its RAE ownership. Notably it was the base for target towing for the ranges at Tonfanau. Also there were civilian aircraft permitted to land there whilst I was an ATCO Cadet there in the early 70's. I even got a trip in one, a dove, Llanbedr-Liverpool-Hawarden and back. it was also proposed to use it as a dispersal for the V-force but wiser counsel prevailed in view of the weather record. The main problem with civilian use was the need to sterilise the runway for long periods when certain trials took place.

Johnm
26th Nov 2009, 16:59
The less said the better about the advice to Cotswold and North Wilts DC.:mad:

However I think it's fairly obvious that Kemble submitted the requests for certificates of lawful use to establish what uses were lawful!:rolleyes:

If the answer is "none of the above" then I'd guess it's questionable whether the palaver of a planning application, or worse still several of them, is really worth the candle.

POBJOY
27th Nov 2009, 03:15
Phil Space continues to post comments that do not compliment the historic FACTS. LLANBEDR was built during the war as an AIRFIELD.During its time as an airfield it has also been used for drone.s,but this was in addition to other fixed wing and rotary movements.
For many years i had an agreement with the RAE to use the airfield in order to visit my parents in Portmadoc.
The whole planning issue is an attempt by the Snowdonia Society (the only objector)to prevent Kemble operating llanbedr as a GA airfield.
They have managed to encourage the Snowdon National park Authority (via the Welsh assembly) to seek use certificates (in order they can be refused).
The Snowdonia Society are not the same people as the "real locals" that actually want llanbedr to be open.
Please wake up to the fact that this unelected body is the only objector to llanbedr being used,and has as its cheif ex an ex Welsh Assembly minister (labour) who lost his seat at the last election.
The lobbying of many parties (under the auspicies of the society) has been a feature of the llanbedr episode,and all from this minority pressure group (and charity).
As stated before, speak to the locals to find out what they really want in thier back yard,i think you will find it is a GA airfield,that will brings jobs and business to the area.
As a planning unit llanbedr has always been an airfield,it was never abandoned,and therefore has an unbroken planning history.Kemble do not need planning for its continued use for aviation, military or civil.
Pobjoy

POBJOY
28th Nov 2009, 17:13
Here we go again.It is Phil Space who does not understand either planning law,or what is happening up near Harlech.
Llanbedr has always been an airfield. (not a gunnery range or strip supporting an army camp).
Its period of "lack of use" does not constitute abandonment any more than a woolworth site awaiting a new user.
Kemble are not asking for permissions or need to.
They only asked for a "use certificate" because after lobbying by a certain society the Welsh assembly changed the goalposts (after the lease deal was offered)
Do i need to tell you what the connection is between the Welsh Assembly and the society. (if so check your facts before posting comments)
Just wake up to the fact that this society (the only objector) has an office just down the road from the local planning authority, it has become a lobbying tool for certain people,and in no way has a mandate from the local population.
In planning terms a planning unit has a "use",Llanbedr was created from a somewhat wet area of land into an airfield in the war.Its change of use was back then.Since that time it has never been anything else,or has any attempt been made to remove it so as to make it "unusable as an airfield".
There are dozens of current airfields that were created in this way,as opposed to the few civil airports that were upgraded and had runways added.
The type of flying and aircraft used are of no concern to a planning authority,as they only have responsibility for the "land use".
(some authorities still have to be reminded of this at times)
And finally, when llanbedr was run under the auspices of the RAE i had an ongoing agreement to use the place as required in a light twin.
I would suggest that letters to the SNPA reminding them of the facts of this location would do more good than posting comments here.
Pobjoy

Flyingplanner
1st Dec 2009, 12:29
Wrong again Phil! How about appealing against the refusal of the lawful development certificate?

vee-tail-1
1st Dec 2009, 16:32
Phil Space
There seems to be a puzzling and barely hidden hostility lurking under your expressed support for Llanbedr.
Perhaps my 30 years of living in West Wales where there is no Welsh English antagonism has affected my views of Welsh affairs. What does it matter if the Llanbedr developers are Welsh, English, French, Polish, whatever? (even I would draw the line at Muslims!) Perhaps as a developer you might want to be involved yourself?
:confused:

POBJOY
1st Dec 2009, 20:47
We do not WASTE our time on here,we have written to the SNPA to tell them their legal advice was as C..p as Cotswolds was.
We also told them that Llanbedr was available for civilian aircraft during its time as research airfield.
We also wrote to the Members of the Park Authority to let them know what was going on under "delegated powers".
We will also let MEMBERS of the Snowdonia Society know what is going on in their name.
Some of us have been in this situation ourselves,and know how difficult it is to combat a minority pressure group that threatens "judicial review" when local planners will not dance to their tune.
Some of us would like to use llanbedr again.
The politics of the situation are firmly with the SS who have a former Welsh Assembly minister steering them headlong against everyone else.
Back llanbedr or back off.
Pobjoy

POBJOY
2nd Dec 2009, 22:49
Ah we now see the problem "your planning expertise is in caravan parks" and probably not situated in a National Park.
The Snowdonia National Park Authority did not refuse the request for lawful use certs because THEY did not like it,they unfortunately based their decision on a legal opinion from outside the area.
The fact that this opinion was the very same that advised "Cotswolds " in their deeply flawed attempt (and humiliating failure) to get Kemble to make applications for "Kembles Use" is not lost on most persons.
Most of use can see what is happening at Llanbedr,and it has nothing to do with planning,but everything to do with creating delay to the point that the "preferred" operator will give up and go somewhere else.
The opposition know that if Kemble go away there is little chance that someone else will bother with the location.
Great result for GA,and an even better result in keeping the unemployment levels well up to North Wales standards.
Llanbedr has always been an airfield since its construction.Its current "looks like new" status only confirms there has never been an attempt to remove it,or prevent "airfield type operations".
Despite your incorrect information regarding civilian use,and so called lack of use the real fact is,it has never been abandoned or been anything other than an airfield with many mixes of flying.
It is the SNPA who are responsible for the planning in the area,not the Snowdonia Society.The arrogance of this organisation (or a member of it) to suggest that Kemble need to "clear" matters with them before being dealt with by the LPA speaks for itself.
The LPA has a duty to deal with planning matters in a "fair and reasonable manner" the choice of legal advice,and the close involvement with the SS would seem to be at odds to this.
Pobjoy

vee-tail-1
3rd Dec 2009, 18:57
Pobjoy Can potential users help in any way? Letters to the LPA or other authority? Or would that be counter productive.

POBJOY
4th Dec 2009, 12:01
Hi V tail
I have written to the SNPA to confirm that Llanbedr was available to civilian aircraft,before it closed.
I also asked them the question "What is it in planning terms if not an airfield".
They have had some very poor and biased legal advice,so may well be reconsidering the whole issue at present.
Any letters addressed to the "Head of planning " should confirm the facts that this airfield has never been abandoned,or ever been anything other than an airfield.
The drone issue should not cloud the issue,as it was still used as an airfield for a mix of aircraft whilst the drones were in use.
The point is that the drones (unmanned aircraft) used an existing airfield that did not reduce its capacity or change its use for manned aircraft.
The SNPA are in difficult position,as they will be subject to severe scrutiny and lobbying by the Snowdonia Society.
However a series of factual letters confirming Llanbedrs use and unbroken history will be helpful.
Pobjoy

POBJOY
4th Dec 2009, 21:36
And what conditions would YOU wish to impose on these english invaders then.
All out in the open now, Kemble are up against the Snowdonia Society and Radio Wales.
Neither of which seem to be in accord with the actual local inhabitants of Llanbedr.
Strange that !!!
I hope the information going out on the air waves is more accurate than what we have had from certain posts here.
And by the way do not bother to send me private messages suggesting that you are fighting for the Welsh people (who gave you that mandate),or wish to prevent Kemble "Walking all over us",or that Radio Wales is also going to be used as "mouthpiece".Go to a public meeting in Llanbedr and find out what they want. The truth might hurt.
Pobjoy

chevvron
19th Feb 2010, 16:21
It may have been RAF when first built, but to call it 'former RAF' is being a bit economical with the truth considering it was RAE/DRA/DERA/Qinetiq for about 50 years before closing.ie for much longer than its possible RAF 'ownership'.
I can confirm use by manned aircraft up to its closing both by MOD(DPA) operated aircraft and by Hawks from RAF Valley. Latterly it was operated by SERCo so they may have records of any civil aircraft which used it.

pianydd
20th Feb 2010, 12:58
As David Young also pointed out in the meeting, where would there be any change of use from its previous use? Offices would still be used as offices, workshops as workshops, and hangars as hangars. Should further building development or change of use be envisaged, then naturally full planning permission would be required. Whether it is required where no change at the moment is contemplated is questionable.

pianydd
20th Feb 2010, 13:51
Doubt it- they were extremely open at the meeting on all concerns, including drones, dismantling etc.

Johnm
20th Feb 2010, 16:12
I think it's very unlikely that Kemble have any nefarious schemes for Llanbedr, they've shown themselves to be responsible operators of an airfield and small industrial park close to an important AONB. i.e. the Cotswolds.

However they've been stung by the planning process to some tune and though they won it cost them a lot of time, effort and money. David Young's 18 months was based on bitter experience.

Their case seems entirely sensible to me. In broad terms.. "We plan to reopen the airfield and use the facilities for the kind of uses they had before. If we want to change those uses in any material way we'll clearly need planning permission and will apply if it makes commercial sense and we think we stand a reasonable chance of getting it. If you lot are serious about supporting us then give us a certificate of lawful use for the first part, so there's no risk of any misunderstanding, and then we'll go from there."

Johnm
21st Feb 2010, 19:16
I'm a bit mystified by Phil Space. Yes aircraft dismantling and recycling is going on at Kemble at a substantial rate at present. I guess in a recession that's not too surprising. It entails about one big jet arrival a month and doesn't greatly disturb anyone. The traffic from nearby Brize Norton and Lyneham is much more significant and I'd guess the activities at Valley would outshine anything that might operate from Llanbedr.

vee-tail-1
21st Feb 2010, 20:10
<< But as Haverfordwest does not make money from GA how can Llanbedr which is more remote?>>
Eh! Haverfordwest is doing fine thanks!
Owned by Pembrokeshire County Council, two flying schools, an air charter company, hangars full of fee paying private owners, home to the Pembs Spitfire restoration group, four permanent staff in the tower, site of the county agricultural show, I could go on...
What is more important is why Phil Space seems to have some sort of agenda against Llanbedr? :hmm:

proplover
21st Feb 2010, 23:15
Hmmmmm I was thinking the same Vee Tail 1, especially for one listed as being located in South East Asia and Sufolk.
Just my thoughts on the possible use of Llanbedr as a site for scraping airliners, its a flipping long way to transport the metal to anywhere and belive me the roads to civilsation are long and winding from Llanbedr!

pianydd
22nd Feb 2010, 14:23
A report on the recent meeting can be found here:

Harmless Sky - Climate, the countryside and landscapes Llanbedr Airfield (http://ccgi.newbery1.plus.com/blog/?cat=48)

POBJOY
23rd Feb 2010, 22:00
Lets be quite clear here folks.
It is quite obvious (as made very clear at the public meeting) that the LOCALS in Llanbedr want their airfield to reopen.
The Chairman of the local authority wants to see it providing a service and jobs to the community.
The only people against it are a FEW individuals who are still using the Snowdonia Society as a vehicle for their own political purpose (but not for much longer).
I therefore urge interested parties to write to the SNPA in support of Kembles aims, as in the end this counts far more than posting here.
The indisputable fact is that Llanbedr does not need planning permission for aviation purposes',it will need change of use for the buildings that are to be used as non aviation industrial facilities, but that will be readily granted by the SNPA.
When the Snowdonia Society gets a replacement CEO i suspect the attitude there will become much less political.
Follow the locals lead,and get this facility open again.
Pobjoy

pianydd
8th Mar 2010, 17:30
It seems things may now be moving forward, unless of course more spanners are thrown in the works.

Llanbedr Air Day 2010 (http://www.llanbedrairday.com/)

POBJOY
8th Mar 2010, 22:45
Not a planning issue apparently and welcomed by the locals,so hopefully Radio Wales will be keen to support it !
May have to ease off the napalm though.

LysanderV8
9th Mar 2010, 13:14
Is this new news? I was under the impression that the plans for an airshow had been cancelled several weeks ago

VMC-on-top
9th Mar 2010, 15:00
Have heard news that the airshow is not confirmed cancelled yet but looking unlikely due to time constraints. However, they will almost certainly do a fly-in this year?

Can anyone confirm?

Stinky Pete
9th Mar 2010, 20:27
A fly-in would be the best anyone could hope for this year and even that is unlikely.

Negative 'G'
25th May 2010, 18:39
Any news updates to add to the Llanbedr saga..... ????

Neg G:)

Pianorak
25th May 2010, 18:49
Might be a good idea for CAERNARFON to update their AD 2-EGCK-1-5 page dated 27 Aug 09:

b. Arriving aircraft. From the south and southeast should call Llanbedr ATC on 122.500 MHz at least 5 minutes before abeam Llanbedr aerodrome . . . :rolleyes:

VMC-on-top
30th Jun 2010, 21:44
Still no news on this?

asyncio
1st Jul 2010, 22:32
Found this via Google news Appeal to former workers to get airfield off the ground | News (http://www.cambrian-news.co.uk/news/i/8542/)

It says they are looking for people who used to work at the airfield to help provide details for the planning application.

Sir George Cayley
23rd Sep 2010, 22:16
No it's anchored firmly to North Wales :ok:

Fe fyddaf yn cael fy gôt a chaewch y drws.

Sir George Cayley

Blink182
23rd Sep 2010, 22:39
It was certainly still there back in June !

http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h303/cirrusvfr/Aviation/IMG_0243.jpg

flybymike
24th Sep 2010, 00:38
Painful waste of tarmac...

POBJOY
24th Sep 2010, 01:38
Unfortunatelty the delay caused by pressure from the Snowdonia society (or rather from the former CEO of that organisation) combined with bad advice given to the SNPA (the planning authority) meant the window of opportuninty that was there a couple of years ago has vanished.
The loser's are the locals who welcomed the idea of having some quality jobs in the area and who supported the opening of a civil airfield.
I suspect that in the current economic climate there are few organisations who will risk getting involved with such a venture after having seen how the situation was handled.
With potential grant money now dwindling and the general market very quiet even the Kembles of this world are not going to mount a crusade with so little to gain.
Its a lesson in planning politics where the real locals (who wanted the operation to go ahead) had their hopes dashed by a minority element that used a charity organisation as their own soapbox.The only good news is that the former CEO who masterminded the campaign against Kemble did not get elected into parliament.Actually it was not good news it was GREAT news.

Johnm
24th Sep 2010, 18:59
Phil space, you may be labouring under the illusion that the Kemble Air Services who operate Kemble and were proposing to operate Llanbedr scrap aircraft, they don't.

Air Salvage International has an operation on the Kemble site and they certainly "recycle" aircraft.

I don't who is doing the Coltishall operation do you?

POBJOY
24th Sep 2010, 21:04
There was NEVER any evidence that aircraft recycling was an option at llanbedr as apart from anything else the location is hardly "central" for the transport of materials.
Kemble have a very good history of making good industrial use of surplus buildings and that is what would have provided a large proportion of the new employment.
A change of use application would have been very interesting.

"WE WISH TO CHANGE ITS USE FROM AN AIRFIELD TO AN AIRFIELD"

The argument was all about FLYING not about using the buildings for other purposes.
Shame the SNPA did not listen to the locals who live there as opposed to taking a "flawed legal opinion" from a very biased source !!!!

POBJOY
7th Oct 2010, 01:33
To pull out you would have to be IN to start with.
Kemble tried to progress the situation but as stated here the delay's have probably scuppered any real chance of getting started now in the present economic situation.
To my knowledge no one else was involved with Kemble to take on the site and the only interest myself and others posting here had was to see it being available for GA use whilst providing jobs and other income for the local area.
However with the new government needing to save money and dispose of unwanted assets perhaps this will spur things along although an aviation option may now not be the only one.
Thankfully it is to remote to become a storage area for unsold cars.
Who can guess at what the Welsh Assembly will want to do now perhaps they will invite the "Top Gear" production there.

POBJOY
16th Oct 2010, 22:13
Perhaps someone should meet up with the WA people to see what is on offer now they are "saddled" with the location.
Well done AP and the SS great result for the local community and jobs in the area.

Saab Dastard
18th Oct 2010, 14:59
As requested, the discussion about Caernarfon has been moved to its own thread:

http://www.pprune.org/private-flying/431017-caernarfon-windfarm.html

SD

2high2fastagain
3rd Nov 2010, 21:44
Signs of activity in the attempt to resurrect Llanbedr being reported by BBC today. The best of British (sorry Welsh!) to the people of Llanbedr and their elected representatives who both seem to want it. It must be possible to have a vibrant airfield and loads of new local jobs in harmony with the park?

BBC News - Attempt to reopen airfield in Snowdonia (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-north-west-wales-11680252)

POBJOY
4th Nov 2010, 21:20
Ah the owners realise that no one will be interested in spending private money just to be able to spend even more money fighting the local planning system.
This is good news as it needs a "clear playing field" if anyone is going to invest time money and energy into getting something going.
It could be that an expansion of its current "part use" as an adventure training centre (that could also include gliding) would fit in well with a GA base and possibly a "National youth training centre" (being so handy for the Snowdon area).
With so much space on offer there is plenty of room for multiple activities including aviation and with a coastline ajoining the location the possibilities are quite unique.
The Cadet organisations could even have a "joint" establishment on site as the location provides an excellent venue for land sea and air interests.
Will send a copy of this to the WA !!

gccvl
17th Aug 2011, 20:16
Just noticed the news item below from 10/8/11

The Welsh Government has been granted a certificate of lawful use, enabling the Llanbedr site in Meirionnydd to be used to test and develop unmanned aerial vehicles (UAVs).

Llanbedr Airfield Estates, who hope to purchase and develop the site, cautiously welcomed the plans.

link
BBC News - Plans for military airfield in Snowdonia welcomed (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-north-west-wales-14460013)

Cpt_Pugwash
23rd Dec 2011, 07:55
Seems the sale has finally gone through, more here (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-north-west-wales-16273222)

LysanderV8
23rd Dec 2011, 10:47
Is it thought likely that Llanbedr will become available to GA?

toptobottom
16th Jan 2012, 21:19
Is it thought likely that Llanbedr will become available to GA?


Comments anyone?!

POBJOY
16th Jan 2012, 22:36
I do not think anyone will be 'rushing' to try and open a GA base until the planning issues are clear.
The lawful use cert was for UAV testing,but i would not have thought that this would be an economical reason to take on the airfield for light aviation. The whole GA market has taken a considerable downturn since Kembles initial interest, with far less flying away now being undertaken by private pilots. The 'industrial' use of the airfield has possibilities that could utilise the current buildings,but unless there are some 'grants' for operating the location the local area has no real population to support light aviation.

toptobottom
16th Jan 2012, 23:23
POBJOY, I fear you may be right in terms of volume of GA traffic required to make a viable business. Having fuel facilities would be worthwhile though, particulalry as the nearest airfields are Aberporth, Shobdon or Caernarfon - all at least 20 mins away.

Rod1
17th Jan 2012, 08:45
“particulalry as the nearest airfields are Aberporth, Shobdon or Caernarfon - all at least 20 mins away. “

Caernarfon is about 10 min away and Mona is only 20. Love to see it open to GA though.

Rod1

toptobottom
17th Jan 2012, 09:07
Rod1 - you're quite right. I was thinking from my place near Aberystwyth :O

POBJOY
17th Jan 2012, 10:23
This thread was started SIX years ago,and is an example of how general aviation has changed in that time.
If Llanbedr had the chance to reopen back then and attract some new business to the area then at least it would have been established by now.
The increasing costs and current economic situation do not really add up to starting a new venture in what is already an economic black spot.
The reality of this is plain to see. Down here in the S-West we saw Plymouth airport close in December,Lands End (St Just) is not available on Sat pm or Sundays,with no aero club anymore,Eaglescott closed for the winter,and Penzance Heliport was sold to Sainsbury.
If the WAG want to see some 'energy' go into the area then they will have to deal with planning matters themselves,rather than leave it to the LPA and the SS.Remember the real local population always wanted Llanbedr to be available.

Mechta
17th Jan 2012, 16:47
If Llanbedr is to be used for UAVs, isn't it likely that their owners would want the opportunity to fly visitors in for flight trials, demonstrations etc?

The last time I went there we had to orbit whilst a Jindivik took off. The hangars were full of red and yellow Sea Vixens too. It was some time ago...

toptobottom
17th Jan 2012, 17:31
Is the proposed UAV activity at Llanbedr in addition to that done at Aberporth?

Ye Olde Pilot
21st Sep 2012, 21:22
Just thought I'd remind you all of the history and status of Llanbedr.
Pobjoy made a big point of denying my view it would become another aircraft scrapyard and likely bigger than Kemble.
Here is what he said..
Llanbedr There was NEVER any evidence that aircraft recycling was an option at llanbedr as apart from anything else the location is hardly "central" for the transport of materials.
Kemble have a very good history of making good industrial use of surplus buildings and that is what would have provided a large proportion of the new employment.
A change of use application would have been very interesting.

"WE WISH TO CHANGE ITS USE FROM AN AIRFIELD TO AN AIRFIELD"

The argument was all about FLYING not about using the buildings for other purposes.
Shame the SNPA did not listen to the locals who live there as opposed to taking a "flawed legal opinion" from a very biased source !!!!

And what is going to happen at Llanbedr?

An aircraft scrapyard:ok:

Airliner scrapyard plans go-ahead at Llanbedr Airfield
Plans to turn a former airfield in Snowdonia into a yard to dismantle airliners will be given permission.

The decision comes after the Welsh government said it would not step in to rule on the application at Llanbedr, near Harlech.

Snowdonia National Park Authority says the plans will be approved, subject to conditions, which are yet to be decided.

Park charity Snowdonia Society said the site was inappropriate.

It wanted the Welsh government to call in the plans and to hold a planning inquiry.

But it has now referred the decision back to the park authority.

The airfield employed 130 people before it closed in 2004.

Llanbedr Airfield Estates was previously granted a certificate to use the site to test unmanned aerial vehicles at the former military air base.

Earlier this month it applied to the park, as planning authority, to re-use hangars and associated buildings for aircraft maintenance including decommissioning / disassembly, parts recovery and refitting together with engineering training.

It says it would take up to 28 days to dismantle narrow bodied commercial airliners such as a Boeing 737 with bigger Boeing 747 taking up to 42 days.

After the airfield closed, Llanbedr Airfield Estates wanted to use the land for private flights and let empty buildings for business use.

Ye Olde Pilot
22nd Sep 2012, 22:32
Pobjoys gone quite on this one. Because I was right:D

rgsaero
23rd Sep 2012, 07:54
"Pobjoys gone quite....."

Quite what pray? Quite quiet?