L.A.R.S. coverage.

[a4fly]

Maybe I'm not trying hard enough, but I can't find an up to date pictorial overview of complete U.K. coverage of L.A.R.S. anywhere on the web ( even N.A.T.S. site ). Any useful links please ?

[Lurking123]

Try here (http://www.ais.org.uk/aes/pubs/aip/pdf/enr/26010603.PDF). UK AIP ENR 6-1-6-3.

You'll need an AIS account.

[alexpc]

Excellent link there, thanks for that :D

I really should spend some of my PPRuNe hours reading the AIP!

[a4fly]

lurking,

Many thanks for the link, I've joined !

[realflash]

Now http://www.ead.eurocontrol.int/pamslight/pdf/4e415453/EG/C/EN/Charts/ENR/EG_ENR_6_1_6_3_en

[Gertrude the Wombat]

That's what I thought. So why did both London Information and Manston try to get me to talk to Farnborough when I was actually routing overhead Southend (from Dover)?

[asyncio]

So why did both London Information and Manston try to get me to talk to Farnborough when I was actually routing overhead Southend (from Dover)?When did that happen? Southend was closed a while back during the move to their new tower, which might explain it.

[englishal]

You can actually get a traffic service from anyone with a Radar, for example I have got TS from Doncaster who eventually handed me off to Waddington. Some are more helpful that others, for example Solent never give a TS, though may give traffic info on a Basic service if pertinent (i.e. you're about to hit someone). I suppose it is that they don't want to start or else they will be doing it forever.

[Gertrude the Wombat]

When did that happen? Southend was closed a while back during the move to their new tower, which might explain it.
Last Sunday (week ago today). Southend were there and gave me a traffic service.

[neilmurg]

Try this http://www.ead.eurocontrol.int/eadbasic/pamslight-A3E65268044E3E2A027F7C5BD50D1A88/7FE5QZZF3FXUS/EN/Charts/ENR/NON_AIRAC/EG_ENR_6_1_6_3_en_2010-11-18.pdf

[ShyTorque]

Worth noting the gap in the middle (which is a busy transit area), now often larger when Cottesmore is closed, such as at weekends.

[JOE-FBS]

A couple of times this summer when going Halton-Doncaster, I have made-up for the lack of an official LARS in that middle part of England by taking a chunk of the route as a transit of East Midlands class D from (roughly) Leicester to (roughly) Mansfield. You have to be able to get to a reasonable height (so either CAVOK or have an instrument qualification of some kind) but EMA ATC were always friendly and helpful. As indeed they were when on another occasion when I wanted a low level sightseeing transit over Nottingham just as the EMA primary radar failed. However, that's not relevant to your post.

[GeeWhizz]

Did a lengthy trip a few weeks ago from way up North to way down South. Northern services were as simple as usual, not busy either as it was a Sunday afternoon. Passing from Doncaster to Waddington was quick as expected, and being a Sunday it was also expected for Cottesmore Zone to be closed.

Happily mooching along vocally reciting something from an old Sting album, Waddington questioned who I'd like to talk to once nearing the edge of their radar cover (due to Cottesmore closure) and I replied saying that I'd prefer a handover to Brize Norton if the radar coverage overlapped. As it happens it doesn't. The helpful LARS controller then suggested that I freecall Stanstead/Luton or continue on Waddington's frequency under a Basic Service and announce when leaving the frequency in my own time; in case of no response I was to assume to be outside of comms coverage, squawk 7000, and change to whoever I saw fit. They also provided the RPS for immediately South and East of Waddington (i.e. Chatham/Cotswold) as well as reducing my service as I was soon to be approaching the radar limit. I changed to Brize Norton once abeam Leicester still with full response from the LARS.

Perhaps this sort of thing only happens when the airwaves are quiet and only really acceptable under VFR, but blimey what a lovely grown up way to negotiate large piece of big ol' blue!

My very small point here being that maybe this experience was a one off, but I now tend to think of the pictorial LARS coverage pages as guides, as there is obviously some scope to push the boundaries.

[GeeWhizz]

PS. There's a LARS coverage chart in the Pooley's Flight Guide too.

[JOE-FBS]

So you got coverage from Brize as far north as Leicester?

That's very useful to know. Particulalrly as Brize seems to be staffed more often now that it has the entire Royal Air Force fixed wing transport fleet (well except 32 squadron at Northolt) plus I notice (going wildly off-topic) various foreign airlines providing trooping services, more idiotic MoD procurement.

[ShyTorque]

Perhaps this sort of thing only happens when the airwaves are quiet and only really acceptable under VFR, but blimey what a lovely grown up way to negotiate large piece of big ol' blue!

My very small point here being that maybe this experience was a one off, but I now tend to think of the pictorial LARS coverage pages as guides, as there is obviously some scope to push the boundaries.

Waddington were being helpful, as they usually are. Essentially the controller provided the same basic service for you that London Information provide, but perhaps less tiresome on the ears. In my experience, London Info can be tiring to monitor, due to the large area covered and the large number of aircraft often on frequency.

Other "non-LARS" agencies can sometimes provide you with a service, at controller's discretion. I sometimes use Coventry, Brum or East Mids, but listen out for a while before calling to get an idea of controller workload.

[thing]

Another +1 for Waddo zone (and Donny Approach who are always more than helpful, never been refused anything I've asked for yet in terms of transits etc). Mind you, one of our club members is a Waddo zone controller, I always think it helps when the controllers are pilots as well. I was flying back in thick haze directly into sun the other day and couldn't see jack poo, zone kindly put the runway and approach lighting on at 'XW without any prompting from me (tower was shut). Can't fault that sort of service.

[GeeWhizz]

On the day I describe Brize could hear me, not entirely sure if they I was on their radar. For the service I wanted radar was unnecessary. Again, perhaps it was just a quiet period. In the same light, I've been at the same QSY point abeam Leicester (almost a personal comms trigger point strangely) and Cottesmore couldn't see me on radar... that day I did need a higher level service :confused:

Waddington were being helpful, as they usually are. Essentially the controller provided the same basic service for you that London Information provide, but perhaps less tiresome on the ears. In my experience, London Info can be tiring to monitor, due to the large area covered and the large number of aircraft often on frequency.

Absolutely. London Info can quickly become very busy. I've only really used them during a club fly-out to activate flight plans and the like. It was a useful tool for keeping in touch with the rest of our group too.

I'll be honest. Usually if coverage runs out with a gap between LARS units I tend to keep the lookout at max and not talk to anyone for x minutes :p

Of course when flying VFR the lookout is always at max isn't it?

[Talkdownman]

listen out for a while before calling to get an idea of controller workload
Does listening out really give you 'an idea of controller workload'? What about the controller workload that one cannot listen to (landlines, direct voice comms, coordination, setting-up checks, taking landing fees, making tea etc)...

[ShyTorque]

Does listening out really give you 'an idea of controller workload'? What about the controller workload that one cannot listen to (landlines, direct voice comms, coordination, setting-up checks, taking landing fees, making tea etc)...

I'm not psychic but listening out first is good airmanship. A perfectly quiet frequency gives an idea of controller low workload in the same way that "chock-a-block" radio chat gives some idea of high workload. If I hear three or four inbounds I'll often keep quiet or go to another agency.

Tell me your frequency and next time I'm passing I'll just butt in, without listening out first, if you'd prefer. :rolleyes:

[Talkdownman]

121 decimal 5

[paulthornton]

Tell me your frequency and next time I'm passing I'll just butt in, without listening out first, if you'd prefer.

121 decimal 5

Ah but we have the guard police already in place for butting in on 121.5 :}

[ShyTorque]

121 decimal 5

Very good, but no coconut. I don't talk on that one, although I do keep it on box 2. It seems to be reserved for scheduled airline co-pilots trying to call their ops, handling agents or Shanwick.

Oh yes, and the guard police in case anyone uses it for it's intended purpose. ;)