NATS Graduate Scheme

[Bigga]

Hello
I have applied for the NATS Graduate Scheme (human factors) and was hoping I'd find some people who are currently in the graduate scheme or people who have done it or even people that have applied. Just to get some advice on the selection process or any other relevant information on the graduate schemes would be a great help.
Many Thanks
Bigga :ok:

[goldfrog]

PM me an email address and I will see if I can get any of the ex-grads to talk tomorrow.

[Ali Bongo]

Human Factors?:ugh:

There'll be more of them than ATCO's very soon ....:{

[Bigga]

do you think so? is the human factors department in NATS really big then?

[anotherthing]

do you think so? is the human factors department in NATS really big then?


The HF Dept in NATS is a lumbering beast.

You can take whatever inference you want from that comment.

i.e.

'Lumbering', meaning slow

or

'Beast', meaning large

or even,

'Lumbering Beast', meaning both large and slow :}

[chevvron]

In my personal opinion, graduates are the last people you would want in the field of ATC; they simply have the wrong sort of mind set after several years languishing in a university.
Graduates I've had to train simply could not handle the fact that what you're taught at the college and what happens with live traffic are totally different, thus they take much longer to reach c of c than people who've not been to university.

[anotherthing]

Chevvron,

As a non graduate ATCO, I have to disagree... I don't think you can tar everyone with the same brush. I think that the best world is a mixed bunch of youngsters and old sweats. Brings a good mix in and tends to mean you have less extremes on a course.

Maybe you give of an aura that scares graduates, thus making them less responsive and therefore making their training take that much longer :E

On a serious note, I think Bigga was talking about joining the HF Dept.
Because they are woefully short of people.
Obviously.

Rumours abound that HF may even one day recruit people who will listen to Controllers/ATSAs before making ludicrous decisions about what we can and can't do to stay awake on nights shifts, or what equipment might be best for us when it comes to little things like headsets and freaking seats!!

Heaven forbid, they might even shadow shift workers for a full cycle or more in an effort to understand the Human Factors behind the job.

Sorry, It's Friday, the last 2 paragraphs should be in Jet Blast under 'the friday joke'... maybe a mod will move it for me

[Ali Bongo]

On a serious note, I think Bigga was talking about joining the HF Dept.
Because they are woefully short of people.
Obviously.


Quality, couldn't have said it better myself.
:ok:

before making ludicrous decisions


Spot on.

At last we agree on something ..... at last:)

[goldfrog]

Bigga

Suggest you ignore all the other posts. But if you join NATS you will have to get used to the ATCOs banging on about being the only people NATS needs as they are at the coalface, only people earning the company money etc etc. Best just to ignore them and get on with you own work.

[Spitoon]

Best just to ignore them and get on with you own work.I guess that sums up half the problems we have in ATC.





OK, I admit it, the other half is us controllers.

[Ali Bongo]

Heh goldfrog - HF walk out of the door, anything change? Well apart from the Travel budget dropping through the floor, meetings about meetings drawing to a close and pointless emails ceasing to drop in my inbox.:ugh:

ATCO's and ATSAs walk out of the door - don't have much of an operation or a company left do you?:ok:

[PPRuNe Radar]

Seems like a few folks have forgotten TRM (Team Resource Management) already ...... :ugh:

The fact that ATCOs with or without degrees make better controllers is irrelevant, as it's not what the thread starter is applying for. :ok:

HF is a growth industry in NATS for sure. Like others I question sometimes what they actually achieve for the business, at other times I agree with what they come up with. Under the new NATS ethos, that's perfectly acceptable. Challenge and be challenged and all that mantra.

[SinBin]

Man I'm glad I left NATS!!:rolleyes: Nice to see nothing's changed in 7 months and it's still 25 companies in 1; Goldfrog, I think I may have worked with you along the way!! Was a DEG myself a few years back not in HF but SE.

[Radarspod]

Now that everyone has finished (probably not:}) venting their spleen about HF, how about a serious comment on the NATS graduate training from someone who has been there

I joined NATS as a Direct Entrant Graduate a 8+ years ago, in a systems engineers role, and I haven't looked back. Best move I ever made and I really enjoy my job (that may seem sad, but I do look forward to coming in the morning - providing that paycheck comes in fat!)

I have been involved in previous DEG engineer recruitment, and I am not sure how this reads accross to HF, but read up on as much as you can on how ATC and NATS works, and show some enthusiasm for working in this environment. Too many interviewees come in just doing the rounds and not really doing their homework on what NATS does and how ATC works in general. There is all kinds of info out there on the internet and in a variety of books.

Apart from that, make sure you know your stuff and can think out of the box.

Good luck, PM me if you have any specific questions (although for obvious reasons I can't disclose everything!)
:}

One thing worth noting - the Grad scheme is NOT a fast track scheme (no matter how it is advertised):= - your career develops on your own merit, graduate or not.:ok:

[Bigga]

Thank you for your responses. Some good, some bad. But I hope i can take the bad comments and make a difference (if successful ofcourse).

Radarspod: thank you for your reply, I will be sure to read up on it, I recently took a trip to an ATC tower which gave me a good feel for the environment the ATCO's work in.

anotherthing: I agree with you 100% on your 1st point, a gradient of experienced to fresh innovative minds is a good mix.

One quesiton, TRM, is this an implementation of CRM in the ATC world?

Thanks again everyone, I appreciate all info and opinions on the HF department in NATS.

[Me Me Me Me]

Suggest you ignore all the other posts. But if you join NATS you will have to get used to the ATCOs banging on about being the only people NATS needs as they are at the coalface, only people earning the company money etc etc. Best just to ignore them and get on with you own work.

:D

Heh goldfrog - HF walk out of the door, anything change? Well apart from the Travel budget dropping through the floor, meetings about meetings drawing to a close and pointless emails ceasing to drop in my inbox.

ATCO's and ATSAs walk out of the door - don't have much of an operation or a company left do you?

Like shooting fish in a barrel... Remove ATCE or MSG and the company closes its doors too... Only difference is there's only one group who continually whine about how important/undervalued they are.

For any "they (non ATCOs) waste time and money" comment, just read "WE WANT THAT MONEY FOR US! NO FAIR!! :{ "

[anotherthing]

JonG

HF has a heck of a lot more input than what you are taught at the college.

In fact, Human Factors does have an important part to play in modern ATC Ops.

What many people get frustrated by (myself included), is some of the decisions made that appear to have completely disregarded the end user/customer requirement.

It is very easy to sit and look at ATCO/ATSA/ATCE manpower figures and see that we are short of people... what is more difficult to quantify is the manpower requirement for departments such as HF etc.

The contributions that ATCOS/ATSAS/ATCEs is readily visible... growing traffic figures and dropping delay times are testament to this.

However it is sometimes difficult to see what contributions some of the support staff make, even though in reality they are doing a sterling job.

No one in their right mind can argue they do not have a role to play, however it would be interesting to see the relative figures with regards to manpower from say pre PPP times to today.

[Bigga]

Thanks for the feedback, I have to agree with "anotherthing" im pretty sure the human factors department has a much bigger effect then travel budgets. Little things like phraseology, sounds, colours, alers, shift times etc will all have been researched and used by the HF departments, but i think some may take these things for granted because ATCO's use them everyday.
Could any DEG's tell me how long it took to be invited to do online tests/assessment day?
Thanks :)

[fdomenella]

Hi!

Apparently I have found another person that applied for a DEG at NATS rather than for an ATCO position!
I will have an assessment day for a DEG in R&D in few days time.Anyone has any helpful information about the department,or the type of group exercise in the assessment or the technoical interview?How is it work there?
Any information will be really appreciated!
I know by heart the NATS website and it does nt say much unfortunately!
Cheers for now!

Fdom

[Bigga]

I was just wondering if anyone else has been successful in getting to the NATS HF DEG assessment day at the Corporate and Technical Centre, I have been invited to a day next week.
Does anyone have any advice on the best place to stay?
Cheers.
Bigga

[Bigga]

Sorry to re open this thread, but is there anyone out there on the next intake of DEG's in OCT/NOV??? Anyone at all? :confused::confused::confused::confused::confused:

[kinglouis]

HF... are they not the ones who chose our new headsets, the ones that break and are uncomfortable?
Are they not the ones that chose our new seats for Swanwick TC ops room that are uncomfortable and are designed as such that ATSA's cannot reach to put out the strips between us?

Anyways, good luck with the job, maybe if you get it you can change things and listen to the people that these things affect before bringing them in.

Oh to turn back the clock to before PPP.