Farm strips

[stickandrudderman]

I've never flown into a farm strip but would quite like an introduction to the experience!
So, if there's any regular farm strip visitors not too far from Denham who are willing to show me the ropes do let on!

[The Flying Pram]

who are willing to show me the ropes
And the electric fences etc! Joking aside - if you can find the right person to show you, I'm certain you will enjoy the experience. And it's always a good idea to seek help rather than try it without. You need to get your landings spot on if you don't have a mile of tarmac in front of you.

[stiknruda]

This really is not the best time of year. Most strips will be suffering from the warm wet winter to some degree or another. It is so easy to cut up soft wet strips.

Most strip owners are very cautious about inviting in strip-neonates as the propensity for bugger-ups is high. Strips are different to airfields and most owners do not encourage/want/enjoy circuits and that is precisely what you need to "learn the ropes".

Suggest that you practice landing on the numbers without dragging it in and once your prowess becomes known, you might find yourself being invited somewhere different.

Stik

[will5023]

Hi, first thing I usually ask is what aircraft are they flying and have they been into other strips. For example a PA28 is not the sort of aircraft that goes into 400m strip easily, a C172 is a better machine with half tanks. Depends what you are flying and what strips you want to visit, there are some longer ones, but they are all PPR. If you want any advice PM me.

Will.

[stickandrudderman]

Suggest that you practice landing on the numbers without dragging it in and once your prowess becomes known, you might find yourself being invited somewhere different.



I regularly practice shortfield landing technique but I'm not holding my breath waiting for some kindly soul to tap me on the shoulder and say,
"I say old boy, I've been admiring your shortfield technique from a distance and am sufficiently impressed as to be moved to suggest that we go off and do some strip flying";)

[stiknruda]

Oh well you won't be invited into mine then!

Stik

[llanfairpg]

Good exercise would be to fly to Netherthorpe and look at all the aircraft shape marks in the hedge

[maxdrypower]

SARM if you do fly into a farmstrip watch out for the flying sheep , as they dont so much fly as plummet

[llanfairpg]

I flew into English Bickenor once thats when I learnt what being a hill farmer really meant!

[Humaround]

The strip alongside English Bicknor is the very wonderful Eastbach Spence - definitely challenging, and I don't recommend it as a first farmstrip, or even a second or third. You really need your wits about you.

There are two strips, on adjacent sides of the hill, so you usually land on one and take off on the other. Even taxying is a challenge.

However, on a calm summer evening, it is great fun and is definitely the friendliest place I've ever visited, really exceptionally nice folks there.

http://www.spenceairfield.co.uk/

[javelin]

Join the LAA, get in touch with your local friendly Coach and enjoy cost effective grass roots training :ok:

[DenhamPPL]

I think 30 at Denham is QUITE short enough for me!

Am thinking of going to Clacton to do their short-stripping course before I drag myself out of Denham looking for little fields:O

Let us know if you find some nice local ones that don't mind visitors.

Adam

[Jetscream 32]

super cub or stearman - born for grass - come to Compton and i will show you the tricks of the trade..... word of warning tho - as with all flying you need to stay current, dont bother with strip flying techniques unless you going to keep them current, oh and dont forget that you never stop learning..! :E

[Cusco]

Having flown most of my flying career from a farmstrip in what many would describe as an unsuitable aeroplane, may I offer a few pointers.

Firstly, get a copy of the CAA Safety Sense booklet 'Farmstrip flying' (copy on website)and read it from cover to cover.

Then as has already been said , if you are used to flying off a mile of tarmac, practise landing on the numbers (or some nominated point) from a reasonably steep approach till you nail it every time.

Once you've cracked it go and do the same into a licensed grass airfield,( if you've never flown from grass the noise and bumps can be initially off-putting) till your short field landings are right every time.

Then select a grass strip not too far away from your base from all the offers you get from here (not!) and drive over to it, pace it out (remember a human pace is way under a yard) and talk to the owner who will brief you about length/slope/hazards/cables/location of nimbys/soft bits.

Then check your a/c POH to make sure performance is not an issue. Chose a nice day with wind straight down the runway and go with an instructor or at the very least someone who does plenty of strip flying.

Telephone ahead for PPR and to check grazing sheep do not have to be corralled and that the surface is firm and the grass is not too long.

If you can get the Lat/Long: ( take your GPS with you when you visit by road, clock the coordinates) and look it up on Google Earth, taking a photo is also a good idea.

Then you'll be ready to fly in: when you do remember that there are very likely to be non-appreciators of our hobby on the ground. This means avoid doing circuits: if you must do circuits and it's possible to vary them from left hand and right hand then do so, if not vary the size of the circuit so you don't overfly the same area a dozen times.

Also avoid sudden changes of throttle/engine note as that is sure to cause many pairs of anxious eyes to gaze skywards waiting for the 'plummet'.

Once you are used to your first strip, you can venture further afield to enjoy some of the best bits in flying.

Oh and when landing/ taking off always have a 'reject' point on the ground in your mind : decide quickly and firmly to go-around or abort if it's going t*ts up.

Above all enjoy the farmstrip experience: if ever you feel the strip might be 'marginal' then bin the idea.

Safe flying

Cusco

[airmuster]

Cusco's advice is spot on.
Just about everytime I land away from my own strip, I am landing on something fairly short..... claypans mostly. There are a few techniques that I have learnt over the years, but would take a small book to write them up. Hopefully you will be using a Cessna 172 or similiar. Very forgiving and yet very manageable a low speeds.
Apart from the landing surface (we don't have too many lush green pastures here) the hazards which can hamper your approach are of utmost importance. Power lines, antennas, some trees can be invisible until you are just about upon them. Have a good look around on the ground if possible beforehand as suggested. Obviously if it is regularly used as a strip then the hazards may not be a problem, but if it is just someones paddock then have a god hard look.

Its great fun and you really get to hone your skills, and get to know the planes performance.

Good luck and have fun

[RatherBeFlying]

Glider pilots get to drop in on farmers from time to time. A lot of what's necessary for outlandings applies to strips.

Read until memorised:

Off Airport Landings by Kai Gertsen (http://www.cumulus-soaring.com/books/Gertsen/Kai_Off-airport_Ldgs.pdf)

Just remember that a glider pilot can make do with 500', but airplanes generally need quite a bit more.

[BroomstickPilot]

Hi stickandrudderman,

Forgive me if I am a bit vague about this; farm strip flying has never been of particular interest to me.

However, I do seem to remember that there was an outfit at Southend Airport that used to advertise proper courses in farm strip flying. If I remember correctly, they used to do the courses on a Piper Supercub.

I've never been to Southend so I have no personal knowledge about the setup there, but no doubt there will be a Southend Airport website through which you can discover the names of the clubs and FTOs that are based there. You can then 'phone around them.

Good luck.

Broomstick.

[IFollowRailways]

I would agree completely with Cusco apart from one important point -and go with an instructor or at the very least someone who does plenty of strip flying.


Apart from the career instructors, most instructors out there will probably never have landed on a strip - The second option is probably more viable.

When checking out, I have found that If a pilot has been trained or is flying from long tarmac runways then it usually blows their mind - they are not used to short runways with trees and hedges in close proximity. I have found otherwise experienced pilots who literally go to bits on finals.

Because of this, I now go nowhere near the strip initially - Chose a small grass airfield (Fenland or Derby are ideal) and see what happens!

Speed control amongst a lot of pilots can be dire - unstabilised and too fast and there is usually very little concept of landing at the right speed on the numbers to gain the maximum length available. This does not matter on a large tarmac runway, but is VITAL on most strips, although to be fair, the last guy I attempted to check out was an AFI with a frozen ATPL and he was desperate - Worst ever!
We will do several circuits (at the proper airfield) where we are looking for the ability to fly a tight, speed stable circuit and to land and be stopped before the half way point without trashing the brakes or nosewheel. If that all works out then we try the strip!

[QDMQDMQDM]

Speed control amongst a lot of pilots can be dire - unstabilised and too fast and there is usually very little concept of landing at the right speed on the numbers to gain the maximum length available. This does not matter on a large tarmac runway, but is VITAL on most strips, although to be fair, the last guy I attempted to check out was an AFI with a frozen ATPL and he was desperate - Worst ever!
We will do several circuits (at the proper airfield) where we are looking for the ability to fly a tight, speed stable circuit and to land and be stopped before the half way point without trashing the brakes or nosewheel. If that all works out then we try the strip!

I know this gets repeated ad nauseam and a lot by me, but it is so vital. If you can't nail your speed on final to within very close tolerances then don't bother. I also think it is much easier from a perspective point of view to fly lower, racetrack circuits, not more than 500 feet when flying into small farm strips, avoiding the neighbours as appropriate.

There is a fair number of very experienced farm strip pilots out there who can show you the ropes, but very few instructors.

[FougaMagister]

Usually flying from miles of tarmac runway, I decided no too long ago to try unlicensed airfields (some of which are farm strips). I have used a PA28-151 (as has been said, maybe not the most suited of aircraft if you fly with full tanks, and it is quite heavy so can take some stopping! But its Vso at MTOW is only 44 KIAS if I recall), now use a Robin DR400-160 :ok: Much lighter .

As mentioned above, speed control is of the essence, so is controling your approach slope and touching down precisely where you want. If any of these 3 parameters do not look right on short finals, go around. Basically, it's the closest thing to aircraft carrier landings :ok: you can experience in a light aircraft!

When going into short fields, it's also important to assess whether the surface is dry, damp or wet (check the CAA "Safety Sense" booklet for the increments in landing/take-off distances on wet grass etc.) So get a briefing from the PPR. I find that going onto http://www.ukga.com helps - there are pictures (some taken by yours truly ;) ) of quite a few short fields. Studying them before setting off helps. Don't fly in with full tanks. Check out your POH for take-off/landing distances required. It goes without saying you should use some stage of flaps on t/o. Don't go into the more challenging grass strips right away. As has been said, start with something fairly easy (preferably licensed), then as you gain confidence, work you way up (or is it down?) to shorter fields.

I now prefer flying into short strips (be they tarmac or grass); it's a nice change from the 3,600 m of asphalt you get at CDG, HAM or FCO!

I recently sampled the "dreaded" Netherthorpe in a Robin -160; two POB, 3/4 full tanks, damp runway 24, yet by landing "on the stall warner" (3 ft. off the ground, anyway!), we stopped by the intersection - so used less than half the 370m LDA. I can't see why people make a big deal of it - unless they came unprepared :rolleyes:

Cheers :cool:

[llanfairpg]

However, on a calm summer evening, it is great fun and is definitely the friendliest place I've ever visited, really exceptionally nice folks there.

http://www.spenceairfield.co.uk/

Could you mention to the locals that Alf Benjamin is seriously ill, he had a farm strip at Much Birch and flew a Rallye

[stickandrudderman]

Thanks for all the contributions gents!
I think it's Clacton that do the farm strip courses isn't it?
Looks like I'll have to extend my choice of aircraft!

[shortstripper]

Just to balance this a bit.

90% of my flying has been into grass strips / home strip. I remember vividly flying into Filton when doing an IMC course. I was completely blown away by trying to land on a runway almost as wide as I was used too in length! I can honestly say they were the worst landings I've ever done! ... Really embarrassing when you have an instructor sat beside you! :{

SS

[robin]

I'd echo the earlier comment about not using an instructor, unless the instructor has experience of short fields - few modern ones have.

I'd also suggest you look up the LAA Coaching Scheme and look out for one in your area. They are well used to very short fields and non-radio situations. I've done a fair bit now and it is incredibly liberating - I have few worries about PFLs anymore and prefer strips to large airfields like Old Sarum, Denham or Compton Abbas

[airmuster]

Shortstripper,

You touched a nerve here. A lot of my landings on long tarmac strips are bloody awful in comparison to dirt/grass strips when using C150's and 172"s, unless I really concentrate.(we always have a fair bit of wind to contend with). Never a problem with something heavy like the 210. I have mentioned it to many other "bush pilots" over here and they all agree. I think it is the perspective we get of the field. Dirt/grass strips no worries at all.
I now dump the flaps on rounding out (electric flaps) which lengthens the roll a little but always gives me a smooth kiss on the mat.

[Asrian]

In South Africa some Flight Schools offer special bush flying courses...just google...

[Cusco]

Following on from comments received on my post #14 above

'In the UK an instructor is not the appropriate person to teach farmstrip flying':

Discuss.

Safe (farmstrip) flying.

Cusco;)

[robin]

All I would say is that it depends on the instructor.

I would not use any of our club's instructors for teaching strip flying as the only fly off of large airfields and almost never off grass. I'd use the local LAA coaches who have a wealth of experience

[shortstripper]

'In the UK an instructor is not the appropriate person to teach farmstrip flying':


Depends on the instructor! I know a couple who'd be extremely capable of teaching farm strip flying. However, I agree that the "average" (I hate the term average as there is no such thing really) instructor will probably have no experience of strip flying what-so-ever, so will be pretty useless to teach it.

SS

[llanfairpg]

You seem to be suggesting there is some magical difference between landing on an area of grass and an area of tarmac.
I cannot see why someone who is accurate at a licensed airfield with tarmac runways cannot be accurate at a farm strip.

In my experience besides accuracy the big problem is no one seems to actual consider book performance only folk lore based on well " xyz got in" or "if the xyz aircraft can get in we must be able to". Best one was the guy who said in the bar" I only have to look at a field to tell whether I can get in or not," I cant tell you how pleasurable it was watching him hit the hedge a few months later

[Chuck Ellsworth]

You seem to be suggesting there is some magical difference between landing on an area of grass and an area of tarmac.

Of course there can be, unless the runway has been bombed or otherwise damaged.

Off airport operations require a whole different set of decision making skills and is best acquired by experience in that type of flying.

It also helps to have experience in other off airport operations such as snow, ice, water, sand beaches, gravel eskers etc.

[rightbank]

You seem to be suggesting there is some magical difference between landing on an area of grass and an area of tarmac.
I cannot see why someone who is accurate at a licensed airfield with tarmac runways cannot be accurate at a farm strip.


I have flown with pilots who were trained at 2000 metre runways having trouble landing on 600 metres of grass. Equally I have seen pilots who were trained on 600 metres of grass runway having trouble landing on 2000 metres of tarmac. Some people get fazed when out of their normal environment.

S&RM

Clacton do indeed conduct farm strip courses on the Super Cub. I'm sure you will enjoy it if you go for it.

[IFollowRailways]

'In the UK an instructor is not the appropriate person to teach farmstrip flying':


An instructor is trained and qualified to teach how to land at a licenced airfield - In other words, to land on a runway that has certain minimum standards regarding approaches, width, slope, surface and obstacles within a certain radius. This is about as far removed from many farm strips as it is possible to be. If their only qualification or experience is that they have done an instructors course, then no, they are not an appropriate person to teach farm strip flying. There are many intructors that could easily teach strip flying skills but they have only acquired those skills because they are experienced strip flyers themselves, not just because they are flying instructors.

I cannot see why someone who is accurate at a licensed airfield with tarmac runways cannot be accurate at a farm strip

Absolutely. I agree completely.

The problem is far too many cannot fly accurately whatever the runway surface or length. You would be amazed how many pilots are incapable of landing on a short grass runway. As I said in my earlier post, I initially take people to a licenced grass airfield and see what happens. I personally believe that the problem is that if the picture out of the window on approach is outside of your experience, you are likely to screw it up!

With strips the major difference is the nearness of objects - this is outside most non strip flyers experience and invariably has an adverse reaction on first exposure. At my strip there is a hedge down one side and it completely changes the whole landing perspective. During the approach and roundout you are aware of the hedge flashing by in your peripheral vision and this can upset many.............

[QDMQDMQDM]

The biggest problem, as far as I can see, for pilots new to farm strips is an inability to control speed accurately on the approach and that stems from having been taught badly at airfields with large tarmac runways by instructors who are more frightened of a stall/spin on approach than a landing over-run. I think a lot of instructors probably are not competent to teach farm strips, where absolute accuracy can be critical.

Also, appraisal of the strip, wind, obstacles and surface is a different skill to that needed to land at a licenced airfield, even a grass one. You're better off learning that from someone with experience, even if they're not a CFI, than from someone with a piece of paper which may largely be irrelevant.

[The Flying Pram]

You seem to be suggesting there is some magical difference between landing on an area of grass and an area of tarmac.You obviously haven't tried it to make a comment like this. Try braking hard on wet grass and join those who have encountered the far hedge. And assuming you did stop in time see how well your average Piper / Cessna accelerates on long grass. Just read some of the accident reports to see how many unfortunate pilots found they couldn't reach takeoff speed at all, or hauled the plane off with the stall warner blaring only to pancake into the next field.

I regularly watch student pilots under training landing at licensed airfields with long runways, and they always seem to aim at least a 1/3rd of the way in. You simply can't afford to do that at a 500mtr strip. You need to be shown how to "think outside the box" (I hate that term!) in order to deal with farm strip flying.

Most PFA/LAA flying is carried out from grass strips, and I agree that their coaches will be far better placed to impart this knowledge.

But don't be put off, properly carried out it can be a whole lot of fun!

[MichaelJP59]

One factor may be that those who train to land at a long tarmac runway such as East Mids or Liverpool are encouraged to land well past the numbers and also vacate as quickly as possible.

[llanfairpg]

Just read some of the accident reports to see how many unfortunate pilots found they couldn't reach takeoff speed at all, or hauled the plane off with the stall warner blaring only to pancake into the next field.

Yes I have been reading them for the last 35 years. Try reading CAA safety sense leaflet

http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/33/srg_gad_06webSSL12a.pdf

Only a fool would expect the same performance on wet grass as on dry grass.

What you are describing can be solved at the planning stage,not just on the strip. You cannot get performance out of an aircraft that the manufacturer didnt build into it.