Joining Procedure Blackbushe

[modelman]

Will be flying into EGLK next month,could use some local advice for joining from the north so as not to upset the neighbours..Can't see any restriction for OHJ and I noticed that the circuit just clips Odiham MATZ.

All advice welcome.

MM

[Talkdownman]

Circuits are to the south for noise abatement but N. of the M3 in order to keep clear of Farnborough traffic. Circuit height for fixed-wing singles is 800ft by day, fixed-wing twins 1200ft by day, light Helis min 500ft but join mid-point. Night circuit height is 1000ft. Keep clear of noise-sensitive areas Yateley and Hartley Wintney. The survival of the airport depends upon this.

25 Left-hand from the North:

If you don't want to join overhead then track 160M to cross the 07 numbers at circuit height then integrate into the LH circuit. Turn base at the sailing club lake. The 25 FAT is curved to the south to avoid Yateley.
Watch out for aircraft flown by pilots who are unable to understand Rule 12 ie. not giving way to the traffic pattern by joining directly downwind or straight-in 25. If joining from the north-west or west avoid right turns on the dead-side in a left-hand dead-side joining pattern. I have seen many close shaves there. Larger helicopters may sometimes join for a noise-abated tight right-hand low-level circuit to land 25 western end.

07 Right-hand from the north:

Track 140 to fly down the disused R/W 14 for noise abatement, cross the 25 numbers at circuit height then turn right to track 160 crosswind to integrate into the circuit. Turn base before Hartley Wintney. Watch out for aircraft flown by pilots who are unable to understand Rule 12 ie. not giving way to the traffic pattern by joining directly downwind or straight-in 07.

Report downwind when abeam the upwind numbers and Final when established on FAT at or above 500 aal.

Ignore the Odiham MATZ. It only has a mandatory application to military aircraft. The Blackbushe ATZ has a greater status under Rule 45.

Expect an exemplary Flight Information Service on 122.3. The Biggles Bistro restaurant, run by a very nice Polish lady, is recommended. Enjoy your visit!

[modelman]

Tdm,
Thanks very much for the informative and speedy reply,will memorise it for my trip (and print it to keep).

When I get there,my friend may like a local 25 min flight,anything interesting to see in the area?

Thanks again

MM

[Talkdownman]

Basingstoke...............:yuk:

[modelman]

Unfortunately,will not be carrying any ordnance;)

[Tony Hirst]

If you don't want to join overhead then track 160M to cross the 07 numbers at circuit height then integrate into the LH circuit...Track 140 to fly down the disused R/W 14 for noise abatement, cross the 25 numbers at circuit height then turn right to track 160 crosswind to integrate into the circuit.Best give them a tinkle on the dog and bone to affirm. The procedure for a crosswind join when I was there last (about 18 months ago) was not to join over the numbers but to bisect the runway as the aircraft like 152s may manage to climb a few hundred feet by the upwind numbers. Also quite close to Yately for the 25 numbers.

[Talkdownman]

Talking of ordnance, just west of the sailing (Hawley) lake is REME at Minley Manor. They have a demolition pit where they play about with explosives so don't be surprised if you hear big bangs downwind, they may not necessarily be from your engine.

[Talkdownman]

It could well be me answering that 'dog and bone'.....

Don't join midpoint.
Otherwise you will cut in front of bona fide downwind traffic who will least expect a 'Cabair'-style midpoint join.
It has never been standard procedure. Well, not since 1975. It would have to be one hell of a wind for a C152 to make 800 ft aal by the upwind numbers. Level at 400 aal on climb-out or go-around in orderto miss the 800ft crosswind leg traffic over the upwind numbers.

Follow runway 14 for 07 right-hand and you will miss Yateley.

None of this is difficult.

[chevvron]

If you arrive via OCK, please call Farnborough first!! (Nice views of Epsom Racecourse and Brooklands coming this way)

[cjhants]

its not difficult while positioning for a r/h for 07 to stray over yateley, especially if you are approaching from the NE. if you do, expect a tongue lashing from TDM. i have been on the end of one in the past, and never did it again!;)

[Tony Hirst]

TDM,

I stand humbly corrected. Just to add that was the way both schools were teaching the crosswind join for the several years that I trained there!

[Talkdownman]

No. 10:

Probably not me, but possibly a FISO whose job depends on Section 52 Planning Agreement compliance. If one is approaching from the NE that would probably be after leaving the London CTR in which case it would seem preferable to head west until north of the ATZ and make the non-circuit-direction turns outside and join directly from the north.

N0. 11:

Mid-downwind joins were certainly not taught by the previous incumbents of the flying school adjacent to the Bistro when I was instructing for them. As a local ATS CAA examiner I would like to know if joining mid-downwind is being taught by either school. Mid-downwind joins cause cutting-in and bunching. We do observe it frequently and usually results in an innocent party having to go-around.

[ThePirateKing]

Also, be aware if you're following a Cabair aircraft around the circuit, you may need maps of Kent and/or Dorset depending on circuit direction and possibly radio nav equipment to find your way back to the airfield.

[greenslade]

OT - but Minley Manor is Royal Engineers or RE. The Royal Electrical and Mechanical Engineers (REME) are at Arborfield near Reading... Just to keep the en route commentary absolutely accurate :)

[Talkdownman]

Thanks, greenslade, for the correction, quite right. Sorry, slip of the acronym from RE to REME. As long as they don't take ME out when I am next overhead......

[Vlad the Imbiber]

I had a slightly odd experience flying into Blackbushe for the first time the other day, from the north. I called them when I was at Woodley NDB and requested airfield information. On the second attempt, I was told that I was “too far out” – and the FISO either demanded or suggested (couldn’t be sure which as he was speaking so fast) that I contact Farnborough. Now, I haven’t got a chart to hand as I type this, but I doubt Woodley is more than about 6 nm from Blackbushe. If I’d then gone to Farnborough, who are always busy (and this was a sunny day), I’d have been across the Blackbushe ATZ and on the way to the coast by the time I’d been able to pass Farnborough a message and then switch back again.

I found this behavour odd, and unhelpful. There is nothing in the AIP or the flight guides about a need to use Farnborough as quasi-approach control. I’ve never encountered a “don’t call us until …” requirement anywhere; in fact, many airfields publish their wish for an early call.

[Talkdownman]

Vlad, you are correct. There is absolutely no requirement to contact Farnborough. I can follow this up for you if you would like but I need to know when it was (Sunday p.m.?). PM me if you prefer.

Blackbushe does suffer from users transmitting outside the DOC of 122.3 (10nm and 3000ft) and it is to be discouraged. Naturally if FISOs warn offending users over the RT they are exacerbating the situation if inviting reply. Maybe that had something to do with it. I don't think WOD is an unreasonable distance at which to make the initial call.

[Vlad the Imbiber]

Thanks very much, Talkdownman, that's helpful. No need to follow up. I don't have a grievance -- I just wanted to learn whether I had done something wrong.

[TheOddOne]

Don't join midpoint.

It has never been standard procedure. Well, not since 1975. It would have to be one hell of a wind for a C152 to make 800 ft aal by the upwind numbers. Level at 400 aal on climb-out or go-around in orderto miss the 800ft crosswind leg traffic over the upwind numbers.


I was once given a telling-off by an Examiner when on a renewal at Blackbushe for joining over the 07 numbers. He said that it wasn't the C152s that were the problem but the high-performance a/c like the B200 etc that could well intersect with you and that a mid-point join was SOP. This was about 15 years ago.

TheOddOne

ps
Royal Electrical and Mechanical Engineers (REME)

??? New to me, thought it stood for 'Rough Engineering Made Easy' or 'wReck Every Machine Eventually'

Hat, coat, etc

[Zorst]

Blackbushe does suffer from users transmitting outside the DOC of 122.3 (10nm and 3000ft) and it is to be discouraged


OK, I'll try that in my little jet, and see how you like it.

[Daifly]

Now hold on, I live in Basingstoke and I think it's a fine place to see from the air!

It's sh*t on the ground, so 1,500ft + above it is ideal... :E

Yours, wishing houses in the south east were cheaper,

Daifly.

[Talkdownman]

I was once given a telling-off by an Examiner when on a renewal at Blackbushe for joining over the 07 numbers. He said that it wasn't the C152s that were the problem but the high-performance a/c like the B200 etc that could well intersect with you and that a mid-point join was SOP.
Such nonsense from a so-called examiner. The Be200 pilot would know from his self-briefing that the circuit height for singles is 800 aal and would receive traffic information on joining traffic from FIS anyway ;)

OK, I'll try that in my little jet, and see how you like it.
The CAA Air Traffic Engineering decide on the DOC, not FIS. It's a way of sharing frequencies around ;) I'll accept '5 minutes flying time' to the ATZ boundary in 'your little jet'. Or is it a Lightning.....?

[Martin @ EGLK]

Though thiers no obligation to call Farnborough, why miss out on a FIS from 25+ miles out? Especially when the service is closer to an RIS.

Upon rejoin (in my case) from the north, I usualy decend to c2,000' a few miles to the north & decend deadside when in the ATZ. The QNH - QFE swap will lose you 328' so that a good start.

The only precautions I can add are:

Be wary of feature followers (M3)
Odiham & Farnborough can be busy mid week
Most traffic from the S will enter the cct downwind (some may join base)
Can be a high amount of learner traffic on decent weekends - ATZ will often inform you if any 1st soloers
Proximity to LHR airspaceAs for the local flight, if you can't go house spotting due to its location, go south between Odiham & Farnborough - see the seaside!

[Zorst]

The CAA Air Traffic Engineering decide on the DOC


No, they don't.

[Contacttower]

No, they don't.


So who does?

[chevvron]

CAA Directorate of Airspace Policy, Frequency Spectrum Management section, who decide it in consultation with neighbouring countries (which is why there are constant moans about people using 123.450 as an air to air chat frequency 'cos it's allocated to some French ATSUs).

[Talkdownman]

I was trying to keep it simple for jet pilots.

[Leezyjet]

When I was flying from Blackbushe, about 2 years ago, I was also advised by the school/instructor to do the mid point join because of departing traffic !!. Found it a little strange myself, but complied anyway !!. Only ened up flying out of there 3 times then went out of currency with the school and didn't go back as they were not exactly the friendliest of people !!.

:\

[Zorst]

No, TDM, you didn't know what you were talking about, and bull**itted.

A cardinal offence in aviation, whether bar or flight deck (or even AFIS facility)