Asian Express Pilots

[Chrome]

So guys, what do you think of the email TF sent?

Recession? Well anyone knows its imminent knowing that any economy does go through cycles and it does look like it's due in soon but I don't see why it's coming this year. Historically an election year doesn't coincide with a recession. Maybe he heard EY is coming over and he's worried?

And that's the 3rd time he has cancelled his briefing with the Indonesian captains. What's going on with the guy? Ran out of ideas or news on how to please them? He better do something if only a few gets the PR he promised as a lot of them will be free to leave.

[ssangyongs]

The last time recruitment roadshow opens its circus tent in Malaysia TF came and chase away all his pilots..halau balik rumah, macam seorang ayah halau seorang anaknya balik...is that true? So you guys who'd been contemplating a move to EY might want to do it privately in hotel room...

[420]

TF is just getting too caught up in the money loads he's getting that he's practically got no bloody time to care about anything else around him. Heard the guy is acting in that new movie CUCI. havent watched it yet but imagine the "extra" cash he'll be getting while the rest of us still hold up our bowls to him and say "Please sir, may i have some more?"

:mad:

Recessions come and go. And its not like in the past 6 years or whatever air asia has never been through one. He's just starting early and creating a false scenario for us to justify his struggles and why he would be unable to produce pay increments and bonus pay-outs at the end of the fiscal year. thats it. simple as that. I totally agree on the idonesian pilots part though. what the hell is he thinking. If he pisses them off,the ENTIRE COMMUNITY will pack and leave. I personally know that these guys have job offers from all over the globe,but are just serving out their bond and gaining hours. but piss them off,and trust me,they shall "cabut". not one,but the whole jing bang.

If i was a conspiracy theory expert, i would also say that another reason that stupid email was sent out is to justify the recent follow up email by PD regarding the fact that the poor cadets have gotta repay they entire MFA training bond! I have had a look at this and the scales are RIDICULOUS!!!! Its either a bond,in which you serve the company for a period of time,or payment...which generally makes the agreement not far more different than taking a bank loan.
NOT A BOND AND PAYMENT!

what a scam! Does TF think he still works at warner? because you only treat musicians like this,not pilots. If u cut an album for a musician,he pays you back. my dear TF,this aint the same for pilots:=

Maybe you guys should start a petition or something against something like this? not sure how much difference it would make though looking at the way they treat fo's. stupid

[420]

And there's no maybe's here. TF is not stupid. I guarantee he knows that there's gonna be a so called "AL-QAEDA" invasion to malaysia to suck grab all his pilots,but whether he keeps his pilots here by increasing the pay or by squeezing us dry,overloading with bonds and blackmail remains to be seen

But with kiss ass pilot-informers he has like the great CM:yuk:, im sure he knows.

[PK-KAR]

Chrome,
I hear Mandala is considering those Indo Captains to move to them for 100K USD transfer fees... whether that will actually happen or not, I dunno.

PK-KAR

[420]

100k USD transfer fees? as in if they join the get the cash? wow thats fantastic.

any idea how much they'll roll in per month?

The thing is quite a few indonesian pilots dislike the working environment in indonesia which is why they run here. so not sure what kinda money would actually be enough to make them go back there.

One thing i am sure off though is that the amount of curses TF gets everyday from 98% of his staff,he's gonna feel it one day thats for sure

[420]

its confirmed.

Mandala is offering 100K uSD and Lion air is offering 65k USD for transfer fees. geez.

the whole world is throwing out money for pilots and air asia is the only one deducting!

Did any of you guys out there hear about the rumour that the captains pay is gonna further increase by another 4k? In their basic pay?

what about co-pilots??????:ugh:

[PK-KAR]

420,
Mandala is offering 100k USD for rated Captains, and I hear about 40K for rated F/Os... for the 320s.

Lion is offering 50-65K for Garuda captains rated on 734s and 65 - 75k for NG rated captains. For F/Os you can expect half the amount. The captains non Garuda can expect up to 50K transfers at the moment.

How much do they get a month?
Currently is about 3K a month net of taxes all in. Current discussions are going to 4K to 5K at some instances... with those transfer fees still being dished out.

F/Os currently are at about 2K after taxes all in, some at 2.5... talk is that they'll go up to 3 soon... but that's still talk.

Mandala seems to be the darling at the moment with working conditions that are heavenly comparing with Lion.

PK-KAR

[420]

thanks for the info pak,

it looks good for the captains but as for the Fo's,its only slightly more compared to what is offered in AK. around one thousand more ringgit approx. But i've heard this from quite a number of my indon collegues that the power distance in indonesia between capt and Fo is very very high hence the pay scale difference. and promotion from right to left takes ages. so i guess for the Fo's,its best they stay out of this mandala deal but looks great for the captains.

[Chrome]

Even though Indonesia is a wonderful country with generally very nice people, unfortunately no Malaysian pilots would go there simply because of Indonesia's not so good track record in aviation safety. Corruption is also perceived to be a menace there. I for one won't move there just for the sake of money. Imagine you hear Indonesian pilots flying everywhere nowadays (Macau, Japan, Thailand etc) and they themselves won't return home. Indonesia economy is forecasted to improve in 2008 so that's something to look forward to. Better economy means more traffic for everyone. I just hope that the DGCA takes real responsibility in improving safety.

TF has invited all AK pilots for new year dinner "get together" :rolleyes:

I haven't heard of him doing something like this before. Come on guys, open your eyes. It's an attempt to bribe us into feeling good about the company and make us understand the importance of his efforts to further enhance AirAsia's competitiveness bla bla. But the company is doing good and we love the company. We've heard that all before. It's not treating us like professional pilots that makes us unhappy now. Screwing around with his speculative fuel hedging policy has also lost AirAsia millions of ringgit. Millions that he religiously tells us to save (by saving fuel, freezing wage increases, ignoring requests for improved compensation packages, putting code readers on xerox machines, cutting down on annual coupon travel etc). I for one am not amused. Now my share value is back to what it was months ago. Why did we work so hard for the past year? He screwed up and don't even have the balls to explain it to us and admit that he did something wrong as a courtesy.

Guys, snub the dinner like he snubbed our application for better compensation and improved working conditions. Only this way will he see that he really needs to do something real to retain his better pilots. It would take more than a plate of nasi goreng, chicken wings and beer to make things right. Let CM and the usual band of yes men be there. I'm not going to be bought.

[PK-KAR]

Imagine you hear Indonesian pilots flying everywhere nowadays (Macau, Japan, Thailand etc) and they themselves won't return home. Indonesia economy is forecasted to improve in 2008 so that's something to look forward to. Better economy means more traffic for everyone. I just hope that the DGCA takes real responsibility in improving safety.
I hear those who want to come back, but they want a good place to work more than the money. Unless they get that, they'll stay abroad.

Better economy means more traffic, but it also means more problems... let's hope it'll be a net gain instead of a zero gain trade off!

420, promotion from right to left in terms of period really does depend on which company you work for and the crewing situation.

PK-KAR

[Virtual Reality]

AK Pilots, what are you waiting for? The earlier you bailout, the faster you get your widebody command in sand dune and more money you will make !!! My buddy who bailed out from AK and joined EK about 2.5 yrs ago is doing his command assessment now on B777 and Gods willing, he should start his command training this summer.:ok:

[QAR]

Asian Express Pilots...

Glad That You Guys Finally Can See What Kind Of Blood Sucker Tf Is.

He Has A Bad Track Record If You Speaks To Guys Who He Has Worked With Before.

If You Hear To Interviews And Talk He Has Given Its All Packs Of Lies And He Is As Bad As Any Politician..

My Guess. Airasia Will Be The 1st First Airline To Cut The Salaries In The Name Of Recession So Tf Can Make More Money..

Tf Is Just Another Cheapskate Blood Sucking Conman...

Come On Guys Move On..airasia Is Not Worth Your Loyalty..

Move To An Airline And Leave The Red Bus Company...

Leave The Air Force Guys And Their 5 Star General(tf) To Sail This Sinking Ship...good Luck

[SLEAK]

QAR, could not agree with you more.Guys start looking at the bigger picture.

[Chrome]

There's a rumor going around that AirAsia is getting the A380. Not sure what to think about that.

[420]

i heard that too. tf is making some major big announcement tomorrow at the singapore inaugural and i've heard this is why.

by the way,that get together dinner was "postponed":D

[ssangyongs]

wahh, they want to follow cebu pacific footstep...

[420]

huh?cebu buying 380's??

[ssangyongs]

that's what they're planning. It's just rumour. Same within AK it's just a rumour. For more info you can visit their thread...

[QNH1013]

Air Asia is NOT a sinking ship. They will continue to do well and expand and develop well in to the future. It's a good Low Cost Carrier business.

For the pilots working there there IS a bigger picture out there. And no doubt those with ambition will move on to major carriers. There's more to flying life than an LCC experience and lifestyle.

Make no mistake AK is a great stepping stone. It deserves your best while you are a Pilot there because remember YOU are a Professional. However you don’t have to remain quiet to the on going issues there and should fight for your market value. I am in an airline where F/O's are treated with the utmost respect and worth. 420's post on another thread about the F/O being the one to save the day with any Capt Incap is spot on. Not that that should be the only reason of course. Both guys up there in front are operating the aircraft with big responsibility. Of course the Capt being the most experienced and ultimately responsible merits higher pay, but the gap should not be so ridiculously wide.

Unfortunately we also have to see it from the other side, and Tony F. is after all a business man (with politician sprinkles) and he pays F/O's what he does simply bacause he can.

[Chrome]

Regarding the dinner get together, I am not suprised it has been cancelled. No one in my intermediate circle said they care about it. Local captains are just tired of hearing the same motivational/inspiring talk and jokes over and over again. The Indonesians are fed up with the prolonged and stalled PR issue. I'm not sure if the cadet group took up the invitation after the suprise 'new year gift' last week. Everyone just doesn't care about any new year dinner. I don't think there was enough 'quorum' for it to be held at such a classy place. Or maybe we AirAsia pilots are just not used to going to those swanky Bangsar places Tony. We can't afford it. Not all of your employees own pubs or are descendents of pilots.

AirAsia moving to Subang? :hmm:

[kefz]

TF.. hmmm just another tricky indian fella... haha

[Dual_Input]

So whats the big news ?? a380 ? Subang ? pay rise ?? or just half day off
Haha dream about the impossible

[Chrome]

Full loads up and down for AK123/124. It's quite a feat in getting the route really so good job to everyone. Did anyone hear any big announcement yesterday or was the email about some big news all hogwash? I couldn't be bothered and waste my petrol to come. Please enlighten us of any news.

To those interested, go check out the EY pilot assessment in KUL. Or if you fear any backlash, just go to the other cities.

Traders Hotel
Kuala Lumpur City Center
50088 Kuala Lumpur
7th February 2008/ 10am - 6pm
8th February 2008/ 10am - 2pm

Full schedule of the roadshow (http://careers.etihadairways.com/ehire/english/News/Description.aspx?NEWS_ID=16).

[QAR]

Cant Understand Chrome Said Why There Should There Be A Backlash For Going To An Ek Talk.

I Heard That Tf Does A Scare And Fear Approach To His Pilots.

Come On Tf And Airasia Management Should Realise That Ak Cant Compare On Any Fronts With Emirates,eitihad,qatar,cathay Or Even Vietnam....when It Comes To Salary,benefits And On Job Conditions..

The Way I Think A Ambitious Young Pilot In Airasia Will Always Have A Dream To Fly For A Proper Airline With A Good Career..ak Management Have To Accept This Fact..

Somebody Should Tell Tf Malaysia Is Not A 3rd World Communist Country,where You Can Treathen Your Pilots For Going For A Talk Or Planning To Leave Ak...

Come On Guys If You Can Afford The Cut Throat Bond That Tf Has Put On You..just Pay That And Walk Out His So Called Office With No Doors In Style!!!

[ngapsayot]

Hi guys, proper Queen's English please! Manglish....very painful to the eyes besides making us Malaysian professional pilots look like riffraffs in this public forum. TF...ticky fella, ha ha ha!

[420]

ok guys first and foremost,

1. Air Asia is NOT a sinking ship. totally agree with "std". its just the loads and loads of unfairness thats going on is becoming absolutely unbearable and even captains are feeling uncomfortable despite the high-ER pay.

2. well as for the big news,tf declared the 1st of feb a public holiday for all ak staff (office guys). hip hip hooray!:rolleyes: Dual input must be an ak pilot haha. and so called hinted about bonus pay out this year...if and when that happens:mad:

3.as for tf doing the scare and fear approach,its true as i have heard about it too...and yes its totally uncalled for. ppl have the right to choose! pilots are the product and he is the consumer.
my advice to pilots is this based on the example above...especially the co-pilots...

you guys know what you signed for now as unhappy the "new years gift" was,the fact is you guys signed it. of course the bonds are heavy and its a huge weight on those who wanna leave but it should never be a barrier. as long as you are in AK,honour your contract and be a proffesional when it comes to work. Improve yourself as a product,because as the product's quality increases,the demand increases,hence the price tag on it. and then companies all over the world will pay big money to get you,maybe even your bond. but for this to happen,professionalism has to be there. now when to fight back,and if you do please do it smartly and not like the PHD holder who talks a lot,but think things through rationally. and there are times where you should know to keep your mouth shut and play yr cards right and work on that poker face so no one can guess yr hand.
And when you do leave,even though this stupid TF and gang has a flair for holding back pay the very second you submit yr resignation letter,bite the bullet and leave in peace,as it only makes you a better person and improves yourself as a "product" as ppl shall remember you, and of course rubs **** on TF's face as of course he is expecting you to rebel.

But never allow yourselves to be pushed around.:=
If you do this,you shall succeed.


PS: The indons have got their PR's. after 5 bloody years! they got it yesterday...... and the roadshows are around the corner........


IRONIC????:hmm:

[NotHere]

Well said 420!! Could't disagree at all. :ok:

As pilots maintain professionalism and enhance your aviation knowledge from all the retired heavy duty Captains you fly with and NOT only be used by them to for the routine. As for tf...:} he's used to achieving glamy in the media etc and great for writing letters to new employers who may be his competitatives, holding back salaries, EPF, tax money and all the nonsense. := For him its a buisness world..:rolleyes:

Lastly not last...FLY SAFE!!

[fruitless...]

While tf is doing what he need to do...to keep his pilots :} heard his protergie Chandra Mohan now is having parties encouraging guys to leave AK. What a turn around..:D Well done ex - DFO!!!

[jetjockey696]

Guys



I would like to change the phrase "You pay peanuts, you get monkeys" (not true if you work for airasia...some great guys working here) " You pay peanuts, you slave labour (child labour) in some cases.

[420]

Fruitless :
its spelt "PROTEGE" !:ok:
Charlie Mike and TF have the same damn attitude. except for the bonus fact which is charlie mike is the biggest ass kisser known to man has this classy impression of himself which makes others wanna :yuk:

Jetjockey:

Well...i wouldn't say NO monkeys...would you? heheh. but definitely many talented ppl here. and slavery is true. but then again i feel its a point of view actually. we can always turn it around on TF. Use this "slavery" that he's putting us through for the best and gain all the valuable experience needed and dump him at his peak and leave. that would leave him in a total slump!:D

[Chrome]

Well it looks like that is going to happen very very soon 420. I've heard the stories and strong rumors the past few days. This week there will be visitors to Traders Hotel. And the ones leaving ARE leaving. Maybe the number won't be in the dozens but it WILL affect operations. Sad thing is it's the better ones that are going. And I thought it was AirAsia's goal to have high standard pilots to train more high standard pilots in our world class Academy?

Some of us have seen this happen before. Let's welcome back delays and retimes caused by insufficient crew, which will reduce guest perception of good service, lower satisfaction and ultimately reduce demand. You wanna save some money did you Tony? Let's see what reduced load factor brings to the balance sheet, share price and our market capitalization. And let's see what this situation will do to the ones that actually was stupid enough to be loyal and stayed but left with having to do extra sectors, experiencing rampant last minute duty changes and getting minimum rest. You can't continue treating professional pilots like this.

Last time this happened AirAsia wasn't publicly owned. Last time this happened company only had the JHB base to worry about. Last time this happened AirAsia has less than 12 aircraft. All 3 bases are on ngam-ngam crew as it is. Don't blame the recession, high oil prices, MAS, SIA, the middle management or someone's grandma. It was your doing.

[QAR]

I Have Always Said This. What Tf Is Doing To His Pilots Is Modern Day Slavery At The Highest Order.

To Me For What Airasia Is Paying And How Tf Treats His Pilots The Turnover Or Pilots Leaving Airasia Is Still Low Compared To Others.

I Think Tf Is Smarts He Pays His Pilots Low Salary..and Puts Huge And Long Bonds..us$50k/5yrs For Type And Us$100k/15yr For Cadets (please Correct This Figure If Im Wrong).

So How Is A Fo Who Earn Us$2000 On A Good Month Can Afford $us50/100k Bond???????????
So Tf Has Got You By Your b@lls..

And The Best Part Tf Is Doing All This To His Pilots When The Times Are Good For Pilots..can You Imagine What Tf Will Do If The Times Are Bad??

And Most Airlines In The Middle East Will Want You To Settle Your Ak Bond Before You Join Them

So I Hope You Guys Can Teach Tf A Lesson..that He Shouldnt Treat Pilots Like The Way He Has Been Doing Over The Years..

So Come On Guys Teach This Bloodsucking Cheapskate A Lesson

[fruitless...]

Well said QAR!! :D What you have said make sense ..BUT how would you suggest ... doing ...what to Tf ??? :ugh:

[essentialbus]

As we are talking here mainly on the relationship between T.F. and his pilot group, my question is a bit of topic. But, as AK pilots are on this forum, maybe one can answer this.
As per yesterday AirAsiaX is flying 5 times weekly to Hangzhou and were already flying 4 times weekly to Brisbane.
As they only have one aircraft, A330, they utilize it well over 400 hours per month.
Sure it can be done and they are doing it, but, with one aircraft only,
one snag, weather, tech, and the whole schedule goes to pieces for some time.
What would be the back up plan here, or is it gambling?
Just curious.

Regards
E.B.

[Virtual Reality]

Easy buddy, its called RETIMED ..................:ugh:

[Chrome]

It's not a big term really as it's done elsewhere in the world. How do you think they'd have thought of it? Retimes (if it happens) is a price for low cost travelling but they'll get you to your destination safely.

[Retarded320]

Always on time after retimed.... No more delay.... :yuk:
As for TF:mad:, he should feel the pain very soon.. Crossed your fingers mates..

[QAR]

fruitless i cant anwser your question...

how to teach tf a lesson im not sure..you have to ask ak pilots that are working there now..

what puzzles me is that tf goes around the world sponsoring man utd, EPL refs and F1 team which im sure is worth millionds of dollars..i know its all in the name of brand awareness...

but come on mate charity begins at home..you go half way around the world sponsoring millions of pounds on a football team which doesnt fly your airlines...who man utd fly on their tour to asia..???????...but when its comes to his pilots he he will squeeze them to their last cent...

to me yes airasia is a success in bussiness terms...but in term of aviation and pilots what tf has done is utter shambles..i rest my case

[essentialbus]

Yes, retimed, seen it happen. But that was not my curiosity.
As it is a long haul low cost operation as advertised, what happens with the passengers when, for example, the aircraft shows up 8 hours late into K.L. and same aircraft departs for Brisbane and arrives there 8 hours late etc.Ripple effect. Will the waiting passengers being left on their own, send home, sent to hotel, food and drinks? Who will pay for the inconveniences, AKX? From what budget, its low cost you know. Or the pax themselves, they will not be happy campers in that scenario and the sweet smell of low price will be long forgotten as the bitterness of dissapointment remains long thereafter.
You can retime all you want on short sectors but on long haul it will have more serious consequences, money wise, and using your one and only aircraft to the max? I think its a cunning plan, daring.

Hence my curiosity.

Regards
E.B.

[angelgabriel]

Hi Guys,been reading alot about AA lately,must say that its all true...we the pilots are treated like slaves....the pay has to be increased and the f/o's also deserve a pay hike.the time has come for the pilots in AA to stand up and say in one voice that WE HAVE HAD IT with all the :mad:.....A.A.P.A needs to be born...then and only then will the bullying and slavery stop.....TF take note !

[420]

Essentialbus,

the ripple effect question has been on my mind since the day i first heard about it,and to be very honest,i have NO answer to your question. There are already plenty of snags (but none of them safety wise) but like you said,"gamble" is the perfect word to describe it. and TF has probably got some "bomoh" who is praying over him every single hour.

but no luck lasts forever.

QAR,

TF has to be tought a lesson no doubt,but doing it is not easy. even as an Ak pilot i find it very hard to think of a way except bailing out on him which as you accurately pointed out,is hard with piles and piles of bonds,even for a captain,let alone fo's. but,the only way is that.

referring back to my earlier email,when fo's reach their prime (captain), and TF thinks that his so called "investments" or "slaves" are finally bearing fruit (hey,he practically got free captains!), thats the time to bail out. for now,use the trg,use the hours being provided,and treasure it.

keep your eyes and ears open,and your mouth shut.

He wont see it coming.

[Virtual Reality]

Hi E.B,

Its easy mate, say NO MORE to LOCO .................:D


Cheers

[angelgabriel]

Guys,just read TF's new year email.....talks about the same things and also of CHANGING MINDSETS.....think he needs to look into a mirror and tell himself first.EY road show was good...it opened our eyes.:ooh:

[Chrome]

It always p!sses me off when I read one of TF's mass email calling for world class standards. Hey, we pilots have no problem striving for world class standards but how can we achieve world standards when the organization does not invest in it?

You want exceptional turnarounds but how do we do it when pushback trucks break down? You want clean toilets but there is only 1 team of cleaners to clean the whole fleet in a night. They're rushing to finish the cabin so the toilets aren't a priority. You want pilots to have better PR with guests but how do we do that when the only time we're accessible (on ground), Captains has to do the transit check while the clerk has to do the loadsheets. We have a 1 minute toilet break, the documents, FMGS programming, walkaround to do while monitoring the catering van, pushback truck and bowsers are at the gate on time. Don't expect us to do more, we're humans.

Hurrah though for the dental benefits of RM200/annum! Hurrah!

If you want quality, reward quality. Treat people like losers, and they won't disappoint you.

[Fair.Pilot]

Can u guys confirm your SEP Manuals, FCOM and other manuals come in a
50 cents CDs?:eek:

[420]

fair.pilot,

that is affirm. they wanna cut down printing costs. for a company who believes in cutting costs,they forgotten the key to money making... "investments". its just books! come on!

all pilots now strain their eyes on their laptops to study

and i think its more like 5cents per cd when its bought in bulk:hmm:

[Chrome]

Can u guys confirm your SEP Manuals, FCOM and other manuals come in a 50 cents CDs?

Why? Do you have yours in a gold plated DVD?

[420]

hey gabriel? so were there many ak pilots at the roadshow? and many submitted resume's?

did the fatass show up this time like he did at the NAS interview?:*

[angelgabriel]

alot of transmile guys came in search of jobs....was there in the morning,not too many from aa...most were coming later or the next day..for us f/o's it is a very good jump,no sign of TF.

[Fair.Pilot]

CHROME,

My company provides me with printed text manuals. Updated versions are automatically left in our pigeon holes.

Hopefully they won't follow AA to have them downloaded in CDs:cool:

[Flyeast]

well...please stop talking...please do some action guys...not only EY doing roadshow..also EK and kingfisher in s'pore this month.....

[Fair.Pilot]

Yes! Time for action!

Time to abandon the "pirate" ship and steer the cruise liner.......

For young sailors below 30 y/o, you have nothing to lose, pay your bond and within a year you'll earn it back.

Nothing venture nothing gain, and most importantly the tide now is favouring u!

[angelgabriel]

you are right,time for we f/o's to take action and stop letting TF and his merry men push us around anymore.guys lets go and get a slice of the pie out there...why should only TF get rich...two cpts just resign,going to MH and EY....i hear that many more to come...:ok:

[420]

yeah thats confirmed. one for etihad and one mas. and yes there will be more. by the time april comes, TF is gonna be in sh*t just like how he was last time when the whole bunch of hguys left all at one for jet airways etc.

doesnt this guy ever learn.?

[lesenterbang]

From AK to MH? What's the point?

[Chrome]

That's funny :}

As I said before, it's the better ones leaving. The TRIs.

For a big sized low cost carrier as ours, I'm quite sure we're the lowest paid. Well at this point of time any other option is better than AirAsia. You have to understand that AirAsia staff has no life but work, work and more work. If you read my previous posts I've complained that while workload has increased, the pay has not. And I'm talking company-wide, not just the crew, ramp, engineering or other operations personnel. That's a load of bs if you ask me. No one is complaining having to work hard and striving for world class status etc but come on, families are affected, health takes a beating and there's not much to look forward to. We're only asking to compensate us fairly.

I see that morale is quite low right now. Shares prices won't be at its normal value for months because he screwed up. There's so much things that frustrates me and fellow colleagues now. Worse is we're in demand worldwide but he's treating us like we're whining losers. Yea of course we're dispensable and TF makes sure we know that, but let's see what that does to the company. Leave my friends... take your expertise elsewhere so eyes are opened and pants will be pissed. Give the ones that have no choice but to stay the bullets to fight and demand what's right for us. Who knows? If things gets worse, even the AEs will leave.

I for one will never leave AK for MH for various reasons but I don't run other people's thinking. EK/EY will be my next stop :cool:

[QAR]

Chrome,

May I Ask How Did Tf Screw Up That The Share Price Hit So Low??

Yes I Have Agree With You If You Take Indonesia Out Airasia Are One The Lowest Paid 320 Pilots In The World.

Its Amazing How In A Country Like Malaysia You Are Paid So Low.

I Dont Think Kul Is That Cheap Of A Place To Live With Us$2000.

The Only Way Is For You Guys To Leave In Numbers..only Then Your Cunning Ceo Will Wakeup..at Least The Poor Guys That Is Left Behind Will Get A Better Deal..

Must Always Remember Good Time In Aviation Is Not There Forever..better Catch The Wave Now..

[Flyeast]

Will see how the indonesian pilots will do..usually they are more extreme..i heard there wil be a mass MC (report sick) in one day (they try to follow CX pilot tactics long time ago)..and we will see how suffer TF and their famous Eagle Ops ( who never even understand how to read Notam and Wx rep.)...hey..hey i heard when Jakarta airports closed for the whole day ( about 4 days ago ) due flooding in the airport..eagle ops hide the information and didnt inform the PIC and release the flt to jakarta, and AA is the only A/C who depart to jakarta at that day ( while all alt airport are full of a/c diverted)..luckly the PIC is the Indo pilot who know how to negotiate with the ATC in Jakarta, and doing a safe landing as the 1st a/c who landed there after almost 10hrs clsd.......he..he..eagle ops:ugh:

[Chrome]

QAR, here's an article (http://biz.thestar.com.my/news/story.asp?file=/2007/12/6/business/19680301&sec=business) on 7th December 2007 during the LIMA airshow of TF announcing AirAsia's hedging plans. He said they've locked future fuel prices at USD79. It was a bet that he eventually lost as fuel prices did not go down and went up above USD100. If prices stay where they are AirAsia stands to lose a lot of money, reducing earnings and revising profit forecasts. When financial analysts noticed this of course they would advice their clients and voila!, a massive selldown of AirAsia stock. It's not so much of screwing up on his fuel hedging strategy as AirAsia will still make profits (albeit a reduced one) with fuel at these levels. It's more to the concern of his rather aggresive and 'cowboy' methods taking an unrealistic bet. No one should bet with public funds! Here is another article (http://www.singaporeairfreight.com/ttd_BizEnterprise/Singlenews.aspx?DirID=41&rec_code=125218) made about a month after the first one when AK shares experienced a week of selldown.

Flyeast you obviously know nothing about the company's operations so I suggest you refrain from making any comments about AK. Listening to what people gossip is one thing but help spreading those rumors over the internet when you yourself is unsure is another.

[md7373]

:confused:I couldnt agree less.Let us stand together choose a good time to embarras TF.I guess 14feb is a suitable time as honourable PM is scheadule to lunch Airasia X bla bla at lcct.Can One tell me where in the world in avaition history an attendent earn more than a bus driver?

[QNH1013]

For the sake of fairness I think the Cabin Crew making more money than the F/O is only on the Air Asia X flights as they are long haul. And thats for the hourly allowance.

Good luck to the guys (and girl) that have ambition and have left or are leaving to further their flying career.

If anyone from Air Asia has an Emirates interview, PM me in advance.

By the way how is ICAO level 6 English going on at AK?

[420]

Good luck to the guys (and girl) that have ambition and have left or are leaving to further their flying career


solid 1013,you sure keep yourself up to date:ok:

as for the level sixes... none so far. yeap. the highest clocked to my knowledge are level 5's.
Talk about substandards when you get ppl like air chainga wang wang wang getting level 6. absurd.

as for cabin crew earning more than fo's,of course its absurd and unheard of,but yes its only for the X-crew...but still...unheard of i admit. but sad to say,the cabin crew DO deserve it as they work their butts off on every flight and the pay that they WERE receiving (some still are mind you who are not part of X) is ridiculously low and some of them have families to take care of. so its about time. of course i totally agree that its a "worldwide LAW" so called that fo's should earn more...thats why a lot of ppl are pissed of at TF,but like 1013 said....in all fairness... the cabin crew do DESERVE what they are earning

and flyeast,either get your facts right (and english right) or get out of this forum and stop humiliating yourself:=:=

[jetjockey696]

Yes it finally happen.... in Indonesia, this weeked. a FEW captains and FO's called in sick and attended the eithad walkin seminar;) 8 flights were cancelled, out of the 8, 3 flights where to KUL...the rest to other destinations in Indonesia. There where huge back log of pax..some very angry.:mad: the people I feel sorry for are the guest services.

There where no rescue flights from KUL because there where no crew to fly the excess plastic toy planes, even after the CGK station manager pleaded with Ground zero (Eagle OPS....) , fell on very deaf ears....

as for Md737...excess pay for cabin crew.. That why I am leaving this disney land airline... with mickey, minie, goofy etc for management. I know FO salary will never be 70% of captain pay in AA...that's FACT, as long as TF:E is AROUND. Thats how much respect they give FO's:sad:

I am not angry with my brothers and sisters (cabin crew) ..they do work hard on long haul and on short haul...especially to destination in china.

How can a FO earn so little:{....there is no justification for this:{

Now it time for me to log out, so I can prepare the load sheet, trim sheet, TODA, breakfast, lunch and high tea for tomarrow..(before I get cut down by my non-CRM captain) I might even treat myself and curl up with my bank balance and cry my self to sleep.

nite nite:zzz:

[Virtual Reality]

So much grumble-mumble about AK and TF, how many of you have resigned yet ??:}

Typical NATO = No Action Talk Only:yuk:

[angelgabriel]

there will be alot to go over the nxt few months...most have a bond and need to find a way to sort this out..pilots are already going...two cpts and an f/o are the latest....a few f/o's left already...there is a pay increase coming but i won't hold my breath for a big jump on the pay.

[CAPTAIN WOOBLAH]

Dear all,

There are those amongst you that have called me a geriatric old fool :)relegated to a rocking chair :eek: and that all my ranting and raving about TF and AK were totally incorrect. :rolleyes: Now, why don't you look into the archives and read my previous posts again. What you guys are bitching about is what I wrote about and predicted years ago. :ugh:

Maybe some times Grand Pa does have some insight. :D

NATO is probably correct when it comes to the airfarts and chinny chin chin and cohorts. But, now is the time to make a difference in your lives. It's called AFFIRMATIVE ACTION.

Wooblah.

[Dual_Input]

a medal for you then wooblah

[QAR]

wooblah,

i have been reading all you threads in the last few years about tf and ak.

if there is one guy that deserves credit for standing up and writing the truth about tf and ak it should be you.

hats off to you and wooblah please dont you stop....keep it going!!!!

[420]

ah well....finally wooblah has arrived.

dear sir,
i dont recall ever going against you when you say anything in regards to TF. we only absolutely disagree when you run yr mouth on standards of pilots here and safety...which is absolutely narrow minded and un-true.
No doubt there are a few idiots who have to be weeded out...but the plant is generally good.
maybe you should refer to your archives first.

this thread and endless bitching is about the fatarse TF who puts his own welfare and company advertising and branding before the very staff that keep the airline running. thats it. but still...despite all this,hats off to the pilots (not the weeds) who maintain professionalism at work and leave the bitching for teh tarik and beer sessions and of course prune:8

virtual reality,
NATO? more and more things are brewing here day by day. 2 FO's are already waiting for offer letters from etihad but sadly they require a release letter from ak which TF and gang are very unlikely to give...which is pretty much holding them back. but im sure they are gonna work it out and believe me...they will leave. As for those of us who stay...its not called NATO. its called personal reasons and aims in life. no pilot is happy here....except chinny,CM and gang...who i bet are leaning on the unhappy side slightly anyway. but the rest of us who stay have got good solid reasons to do so and plans in life. you on the other hand are probably one of those guys who jump here and there chasing cash and in the business not for the love of flying. probably. there are a lot of things to consider when leaving an airline. some of us are smart enough to know the right time to thats all. the right time for us...not for the company or the availability in the airline world.

so wooblah,to make it clear...rant on about TF and we shall join in gladly. but never about standards...

VR...NATO??:=

[420]

can anyone confirm jetjockeys post regarding IAA's cancelled flights due to pilots mc's?

awesome news.

JAKARTA BOLEH!:ok:

[Chrome]

I wouldn't be storing the rocking chair up in the attic and don't burn the admission letter to an old folks' home I sent you just yet Woobly.

As you put it in an earlier post, we have crossed swords. But I remember taking out my sword only when you make unintelligent claims regarding the standards and safety of this airline and its pilots. I won't accept your load of c... no matter how big an aircraft you fly or how many many log books you have filled. You obviously have something personal against TF while we're here ranting about TF on his conduct mistreating his own pilots who he asks to do extra when he doesn't appreciate or recognise it with sensible compensation. He further makes bs remarks of an incoming recession and 'brotherly' advice that one could be sacked in another airline. We're not that stupid.

Woobly when exactly have you gone on this vendetta of yours these past few years in the interest of your fellow pilots in AirAsia? Never. You just dislike the company and no one will know why unless you reveal it yourself. So don't be claiming yourself as a visionary rights activist of some sort now or I will have to direct people to your very smart prediction of AirAsia shares going down to RM1 (or somewhere there). Or to your very sarcastic question on the AirAsia A330 lying idle at the cargo apron suggesting it's doomed to failure. Or that TF is a crook etc etc.

Lastly, I welcome any suggestions from you as an experienced airline pilot on how your fellow pilots in AK should tackle this issue of not being appreciated for all the work put in. Or just refrain from saying anything until your dream of AirAsia failing comes true because that seems to be your reason of existence here and not for the welfare of Asian Express pilots.

PS - I see you got yourself another clueless groupie :8

[Virtual Reality]

Hi 420,

I don't bitch and bite the hand that FEEDS me and my family. If I am not happy I will pack my bags and say goodbye to whoever that crosses my path. Unlike you, mumbling and jumbling and hoping others will quit so that you will get the benefits. :=

Two buckets policy applies everywhere I go.........:ok:

[deck11]

noisy!....

[420]

If I am not happy I will pack my bags and say goodbye to whoever that crosses my path


what a load of c***!

come on man...you mean to tell me your'e totally happy in whatever airline your'e in? please. of course so your pay is good,but if thats the reason your'e staying,then your'e obviously in this business for the cash and not for the flying.
me asking pilots to leave for my benefit??? kindly refer to my previous post giving advise to my fellow collegues regarding whether they leave or not. i am waiting out in ak for reasons of my own. and it has got nothing to do with benefits...TF gives NO benefits. when the time is right....mark my words,i shall leave,but until then,i will wait patiently and bite the bullet because sometimes one has no choice and there are more important things in life!
now all my bitching and ranting is just me expressing my dissatisfaction and supporting all those who want to leave (those who can and want to) as what is going on here is terrible.

but you moving the minute someone crosses yr path?? ive seen yr posts as well in history and how you bitch. dont be a hypocrit cos ill never buy it...unless you are at EK which SEEMS to be the only picture perfect place to be in nowdays...for now

save the macho-ness la...seen it all before in this airline.

[420]

TF is having a pilots briefing now eh? 100$ bet the captains vs fo ratio will be at least 10:1 attending this so called briefing a.k.a. storytime and the ratio of kiss-asses to unhappy staff shall be 900:1!

come on big guy,we've been to your "briefings" before. after yr usual speeches about airasia on how successful we are after just 2 aircrafts and buying over the company for rm1 and clearing out millioin dollar debts,youre gonna start sweet talking everyone about bonuses and empty promises of pay rises and share options etc. and also yr "plans" for the future of airasia.

followed by the fun bit... "any questions? remember we are one family,and we maintain a transparent relationship. anything you want to voice out please do and we'll do everything possible to make this place better for you":ok:

translation: any questions? dont ask me about bloody pay rise cos i hate that question cos how am i gonna get my money to pay off my apartments and cars and clubs and women? and of course money for the stuff im sponsoring? other than money...please voice out yr opinion,chances are ill relate it to money and ill disregard it anyway...but please...speak up so i can seem liberal and we can actually meet the 2 hour quota i catered for this meeting. thank you:yuk:

[fruitless...]

This man "420" seem to be very bitter with Tf.. :rolleyes: Was he one that was thrown out of senior management by Tf after several f**k ups ?? :} :(

Qoute "DON'T BITE THE HAND THAT FEEDS YOU" :sad:

[Flyeast]

Dear chrome
I’ve been involved in this forum for almost 4 years, and I try not to create any rumour or an untruth story in this forum, even though the name of this forum is professional pilot RUMOUR network. So when I just came for my leave yesterday I gathered some information that maybe useful for you.
Flight to Jakarta that I’m talked about was flight ak954 on the 1st of February 2008, the PIC ( Indonesian ) just joining the company for about 5 months,the FO started his career in AK ( Cadet ). By luck I know the PIC quit well, because we’re together in Tolouse last year doing an SFI course, a quit humble person with 7 years experience flying Airbus, and one of the first pilot from far east who got JAA Switzerland ATP on the age of 23 in 1998 ( I was in BALAIR in 1998 and he was flying for Swissair ) , he was also the 1st Indonesian pilot joining QR, and involved in the recruitment and training for almost 5 years. The flight departed from KL on time ( 14.40lt ), when they were in contact with s’pore radar, they advised them that Jakarta closed since 08.20lt. Crew tried to contact Flt ops in KL, since they not been informed that Jakarta Int’l airport was closed, and no information on the NOTAM and Forecast wx is still within limit. Until they are out of reach, Flt ops ( your eagle ops ) unable to give any information to the crew. PIC decided to continue the flight to Jakarta, at that time most of alternate aerodrome was closed due weather or Full of a/c diverted ( PLM, SUB, HLM, DPS ) , Jakarta radar give them Solo airport as there alternate aerodrome and inform them that airport closed not because of low visibility but because of flooding on the runway due to heavy rain in the morning . At 15.10, ak 952 make holding over bunik at FL 270, PIC decided to contact Tower to know an update situation in the airport, Fortunately the ATC is his friend in the Flying school, so he can talk freely with their language and got an update condition of the runway. 15.40, ak952 landed in Jakarta airport, using only half of the runway 07L, because 1000m end of the runway filled with standing water ( 4mm-8mm ), while 07R still closed. Ak flight was the first a/c landed in Jakarta Soekarno Hatta airport that day ( its in the local news paper , Kompas and Suara pembaruan 2nd feb 2008 ), and most of the pax stranded in the airport until midnight because lack of transportation facility in the airport.
please excuse my english, since i'm not british, or born/leaving in ex british colonial, and my icao english test score in only 4 not 6 like all korean pilots. but i'm quit happy, for 17 years of flying in europe i'm not involve in any incident or CRM problem because of my English. Cheers...

[CAPTAIN WOOBLAH]

Chrome & 420,

Yes the the bloody truth hurts doesn't it.

Wooblah. :D

[Chrome]

Takes one to know one Woobly.

The elders say a guy who reaches age 40 is hard to change. At least we still have a chance.

[jetjockey696]

by way airasia pilots....who is reading this forum. the MEETing with TF is complusory for flt crew that is not working on though's days.


otherwise 5 rotans on somebody's a@s:O by the FIRM.

The thread by 'Flyeast' is true. That was due to the big down pour before the CNY. the walk out happened on last sunday.:D

[QAR]

420,

I Know It Kinds Of Pisses You Of When Woobly Write About Ak Standards Because Your Flying There.

Its No Point Of Us Fighting If Ak Is Up To The Aviation Standards.

Every Pilots Has His Own Standards But Its Easier When The Airline You Fly With Has Set A Higher One.

You Will Know Where You Stand In Terms Of Standards When You Go And Pass And Proper Airline Pilot Interview With The Big Boys(ek,cx.etc)..

One Thing I Know Tf Doesnt Give A Rats A$$ If His Pilots Has Standards....because At The End Of The Day If Ak Makes Money So He Can Pay For His Porsche,flash Aprt,girls,his Football Club And F1 Sponsors...thats What He Wants...

Do You Really Think That Tf Has Passion For Aviation???

Come On He Is Running This Bus Company For Money..full Stop.

[F-KH]

I like the call sign ... "Asian Express" .. we're asians .. and by the amount of flying we do every month we gain hours pretty fast and experience too, and people are leaving...

"Asian express, request permission to taxy, if permitting, direct middle east" :p

[Chrome]

Post #59: we will see how suffer TF and their famous Eagle Ops ( who never even understand how to read Notam and Wx rep.)...hey..hey i heard when Jakarta airports closed for the whole day ( about 4 days ago ) due flooding in the airport..eagle ops hide the information and didnt inform the PIC and release the flt to jakarta

Post #78: Crew tried to contact Flt ops in KL, since they not been informed that Jakarta Int’l airport was closed, and no information on the NOTAM and Forecast wx is still within limit. Until they are out of reach, Flt ops ( your eagle ops ) unable to give any information to the crew. PIC decided to continue the flight to Jakarta

Flyeast I am quite impressed with your European flying and all but this is not the issue here. At first you say it's AK954 then later in the story it's AK952 but let's not care about that for now shall we? :hmm:

Check my earlier post and you will see I never denied that incident never occured. I however have a problem of you lying of how it happened. Ok I shouldn't use that word, somehow or rather let's just say you're bending the truth. For some reason due to your excellent CRM skills some facts have now become fiction.

In your 1st post you accuse Eagle Ops of hiding a lot of information from the captain to dispatch the flight but in your 2nd post you said "no information on the NOTAM and Forecast wx is still within limit". Now if there wasn't anything in the NOTAM and weather forecasted was good, how would they (if they had the intelligence to read it in the first place ;)) hide something that is not there in the first place?

When Singapore Radar gave them the information that WIII was closed and all other alternates were either closed or full of aircraft why did the Captain decided to continue the flight? With all his flying experience (JAA Switzerland ATP etc etc) how would he know his old friend was working that day in the Tower? And if they ended up with no fuel would you still blame Operations for what happened? He took quite a risky decision there in my opinion. Even if it turned out his godfather or favourite uncle on his father's side or the nephew of the cousin of his village head was the controller that day at Soekarno, it would still be the Captain's responsibility if something went wrong during his attempt to land.

What kind of people do you think work there that would let something like this happen on purpose? Don't you think it could be something that they did not know of in the first place? You should understand the difference here, whether it was on purpose or not because I dare say that it was not on purpose that the flight was dispatched. And when the flight continued, it was the Captain's call to do anything. And this AK954 then changed to AK952 story. I'm sure it's a typo and it's normal for people to make mistakes so it's okay. But this is PPrune and 2 posts typed in one thread sitting in a relaxed environment wherever you are. And you claim you never made a mistake communicating verbally in 17 years flying in a stressed cockpit with other non-natives in Europe? I find that hard to believe.

I'll end this post like how I ended in post #60. Flyeast you obviously know nothing about the company's operations so I suggest you refrain from making any comments about AK. Listening to what people gossip is one thing but help spreading those rumors over the internet when you yourself is unsure is another.

[Chrome]

jetjockey696 no one can tell you what you should do on your day off. If you have something else to do don't bother to attend. We're all flying maximum nowadays, minimum days off and have limited time to ourselves and family. They expect us to show up if it's your day off? Forget it lah.

Well done to our Indonesian brothers for showing force. It was a bit unprofessional but what the heck. Company treats us like unprofessional losers so we should not disappoint them.

[420]

QAR,who the hell said tony gave a **** about the standards of the pilots? Thais the job of the pilots themselves & the DFO. All tony cares about is advertising and marketing and promoting the air Asia brand so he can fill up his pockets! He so very obviously does not give a **** about the pilotS stds. He doesn't get involved.but that does not mean our standards are low.how you could possibly make such a stupid assumption based on such a stupid reason i have no idea.just cos he'S an idiot does not mean we are. Fruitless, nice try fishing out my identity buddy... But sorry... STRIKE 1!!!

[stealthone]

Arghhh... do not talk about the standards guys,.. It’s a sensitive topic...
So, is it true that the Australian DCA caught Air Asia X flying on ETOPS route even though the company is a non-ETOPS operator? :ugh:

[DIRECT LAW]

HMMMM....:confused:

[Dual_Input]

as far as i know they arent ETOPS , could be wrong though

too many airbus related nicks these days

[Virtual Reality]

Unable to call Eagle Ops or get latest METAR? I thought there is such thing called SATCOM or ACARS ..............:ok:

Opppsssssssss,:oh: sorry..... this is a LOCO ..............:ugh:

420, do you know where my path is? Sorry buddy, can't help but I deserve a better treatment........:{

[CAPTAIN WOOBLAH]

Chrome & 420,

This is The Professional Pilots Rumour Network. :ugh:

If you want factual read your flight manual. Lets hope that your arrogance and know it all attitude is relegated to this forum and not your flight deck. I am sure many would shiver having to fly with a$$holes like you. :(

[jetjockey696]

Did anyone go to the meeting with TF 2day??


What was sermon like??

[QAR]

420,

Since Your With Airasia So What Kind Of Bull**** Did Tf Come With This Time...

Im Guessing Same Old ****...different Day?????

[420]

Year same **** different day is absolutely correct. And also with immediate effect,captains allowances will be increased to rm195 per hour!! Fo's on the other hand they are considering increasing the allowances to 75 per hour but this is only when the fo reaches total of 2500 hrs flight time. The key word here is "considering" which basically means that fo's get jack****...for now. So year...same **** different day. Bloody ridiculous! The captains are now earning FOUR times more than fo's. And wooblah,thats not a rumour thats a fact. Sorry if you can't handle facts well

[Fair.Pilot]

A Chinese proverbs "10,000 miles starts with a step"

It's this 1st step that's makes the 10,000 miles possible. Probably the FOs in AK couldn't even lift their feets!

[QAR]

You Know Why Is Tf Paying His Capt 4 Times More.simple Fact That He Can.

I Cant Imagine What Kind Of Cockpit Enviroment You Guys Have In Ak When The Guy On The Left Gets 4 Times More Than The Right..how About The Work Load????

Never Heard This Kind Of Scale Anywhere Else.

I Tell You What 420 Forget About Fighting For Your Rights In Airasia..its Just A Toilet Bowl Of All Airlines..just Get Your Hours Leave Asap..and Yeah Please Dont Give Any Notice.because They Dont Deserve Any.
The Management Will Never Fight For Your Rights Because They Have Their Rice Bowl Taken Care Off..so Who Cares For You At The Bottom...

Mate Airasia Is A Zoo And Its Managed By Monkeys..hope I Have Said My Word!!!!

[320busdriver]

Seems that way -- if the FOs stick together than probably they will be able to bargain something worthwhile. Come on guys wake up and smell the coffee enough is enough time for action. Is this not the straw that breaks the camel`s back, is this not motivation enough to tell TF that you cant treat people this way. Those 2 prats in management AJ & S are really a waste of time, way to go guys ( AJ & S ) thanks for all your help, i see you really stood up for the FOs.

[Chrome]

Yes it's called a rumour network but there's nothing written anywhere saying I can't post counter rumours. Seeing there is lack of informed posts from you I guess you have nothing concrete to rebuke me.

Woobly you have so many pre-conceived ideas about me just from my posts in such a short time that I think I have hit all the right spots with you. Like I said before, it takes one to know one. Thank you for calling me an arrogant with a know it all attitude. Now I will be perfect to join an MH cockpit. After this I just need to hone my skills in being power hungry, screwing up other people's lives and backstabbing after which I can represent you as an official in MAPA :}

[NotHere]

Hey Guys! Remain professional as what we always keep saying BUT don't seem to keep up to it...:ugh: :ugh:

Its hoped to be constructive forum we wish!! :cool:

Safe and Happy Flying!! :ok:

[CAPTAIN WOOBLAH]

No no chrome my little sister.

You have all the attributes to remain exactly where you are. MH would just destroy your fragile little ego little girl.:ok:

Seems to me that you should look into the mirror because all you seem to do is blow off hot air. Now that your good friend dandie fernandie has ripped you off you are no longer the staunch kiss ass supporter you used to be. I remember the days that you and your chum 420 were singing the praises of your beloved fat one!!!!! Funny how things change as hair appears on your balls and your voice deepens.:{

You and your kind just make me laugh. No balls and full of hot air and excuses. Crying like the spoilt kid you really are. Why don't you ask daddy for help as you always have. Perhaps he has someone on the inside to pull strings for you just as he bought your ATPL.:rolleyes:

NATO, thats the term you should covet as your battle cry and say those words every night before you go to bed. Furthermore, you're just an FO, because you certainly don't appear to have the credibility to be a captain and quite frankly I don't see the captains from your esteemed establishment whining and complaining here!! perhaps it's because they are getting four times your salary, have sold you to the dogs and are laughing all the way to the bank hand in hand with your good mate TF. Who, by the way paid them off to screw you.

My poor little sister. " I've been around you know " And, I have achieved everything I have set out to do in my life. I have enjoyed more time on big jets than you have been on the planet. And, I enjoyed the real flying, the real night stops and the real money that flying used to pay. I don't have to be an AK bus driver or a Malay MH mapa type. Perhaps I'm a CX A scaler or one of the boys that set up RBA with Fox. I can tell you this my little sister. I am living the aviation dream. And I am the last of that generation.

It is precisely people like you that have destroyed a once proud industry, where we were looked upon by society as white collar workers, side by side with doctors and such. Where salary, terms and conditions were paramount. Where we stood side by side united as a force to be reckoned with. And believe me, the bloody bosses would shiver in their flying boots before trying to screw with us as a community.

What have you done?? You work for peanuts and accept truly substandard conditions. All in the name of the love of aviation, trying to get my foot in the door and all the other bull**** you use to add credibility to being a scab. And then, then you whine incessantly about what is handed to you. Well wake up and smell the roses. You have terms and conditions commensurate with what you agreed to.

Do you think that all the old farts like me got into flying because we hated aviation, hated the night stops in five star hotels drinking cocktails by the pool day in day out. Of course we loved flying. But we stood together just as those before us stood together as it was from the WWII boys that started this industry.:D

So what you gona do little girl. Cry here on PPrune like the little girl you are. Or, get of off your sorry ass and kick some management butt that, by the way needs some serious kicking. Can you guys pull together and all report sick system wide for a day. Can you? I don't think so!! And you know why?? Because you are a gutless pile of little girls. I will put pink panties on order for you next Christmas.

And before you attack me or apply to have me banned from this thread. Remember this. I don't give a rats ass about what you think or say about me. I have got in my hands everything you have ever dreamed of and more. Both personally, commercially and privately.:cool:

Wooblah.:ok:

[QAR]

WOOBLAH YOU SAID THIS:

" I am living the aviation dream. And I am the last of that generation.

It is precisely people like you that have destroyed a once proud industry, where we were looked upon by society as white collar workers, side by side with doctors and such. Where salary, terms and conditions were paramount. Where we stood side by side united as a force to be reckoned with. And believe me, the bloody bosses would shiver in their flying boots before trying to screw with us as a community.

What have you done?? You work for peanuts and accept truly substandard conditions. All in the name of the love of aviation, trying to get my foot in the door and all the other bull**** you use to add credibility to being a scab. And then, then you whine incessantly about what is handed to you. Well wake up and smell the roses. You have terms and conditions commensurate with what you agreed to."

WOOBLAH WHAT IS SAID IS SO SO RIGHT!!!!!!!!CAN SEEM TO DISAGREE WITH YOU.
YOU HIT THE NAIL RIGHT.VERY WELL SAID

GOOD ON YOU MATE YOUR LUCKY TO LIVE THE AVIATION DREAM AND NOT LIVING THE AVIATION NIGHTMARE WITH AK:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D

[irabdlatib]

THE WALL STREET JOURNAL ON TONY FERNANDES OF AIRASIA

AIRASIA FOUNDER LIKES WORKERS TO SPEAK UP
(From THE WALL STREET JOURNAL ASIA ) Malaysian Tony Fernandes founded AirAsia, Asia 's first low-cost carrier, in 2001 and expanded the company by setting up joint-venture airlines in Thailand and Indonesia . Mr. Fernandes, 42 years old, graduated from the University of London in 1987 with a finance degree and in 1992 moved back to Malaysia, where he became managing director of Warner Music Malaysia, and later, vice-president of Warner's Southeast Asian operations. He quit in 2001 to start AirAsia.
One of Malaysia 's most outspoken business executives, Mr. Fernandes not only has strong ideas on the way airlines should be run, but also how Southeast Asia 's top-down corporate culture should change. He spoke to reporter Cris Prystay about his style. WSJ: What was your first job and what did you learn from it?

Mr. Fernandes: My first job was a waiter in London at the Cavendish Hotel. I was 17. I learned that working was hard and you had to be professional, even as a waiter. You had other colleagues. If my performance was poor, it let down the whole team. My first [career] job was as an accountant at an auditor in London . It was mind-blowingly boring. I was a junior auditor and was photocopying and adding up rows of columns. The big lesson there: make sure you go into a job that you enjoy. Otherwise, you don't give any value to your employer, and you certainly don't add any value to your own mind. WSJ: Who gave you the best business advice?

Mr. Fernandes: It was probably Stephen Shrimpton (the former chief executive officer of Warner Music International) at Warner. I was a man in a rush. I was 28 when I became the managing director of Warner Music Malaysia , and I wanted to be the regional MD. I wanted to take over the world. One night, Steve talked to me outside the Sheraton Hotel in Hong Kong for three hours. He told me there's no need to rush and that it's about developing my own personality and making sure I'm ready for the next job. I see that now: No matter how bright someone is at 25, there's nothing like experience. He slowed me down, and made me understand that you need to take time to understand the business better, to understand your people better. WSJ: What's the one thing you wish every new hire knew?

Mr. Fernandes: Humility -- and knowing what the real world is like. The new generation is coming in pretty soft. A lot of these young guys haven't lived through a recession. There are plenty of jobs out there and they think, "I can always walk into another job." The hunger and determination to do their best is sometimes not there. WSJ: Is there a difference between the management culture in Asia and the West?

Mr. Fernandes: The management culture here is very top-down. There's less creativity and fewer people who are willing to speak out. They're more implementers than doers. There's less freedom of speech, and that impacts the business world. Even when they know things are not right, they won't speak out. They just do what they're told to do.

WSJ: What's the biggest management challenge you face?

Mr. Fernandes: To get people to think. At AirAsia, we want 4,000 brains working for us. My biggest challenge is to get people to talk, to express themselves, to get people to challenge me and say "Tony, you're talking rubbish.
" That's what I want, not people who say "Yes, sir." The senior management doesn't have all the answers. I want the guy on the ramp to have the confidence to tell me what's wrong. WSJ: What are you doing to clear that hurdle?

Mr. Fernandes: We have no offices. We dress down. You wear a suit, and you put distance between you and your staff. We're on a first-name basis. I go around the office, around the check-in desks, the planes constantly, talking to people. Fifty percent of my job is managing people in the company. You get people to open up to you by just asking them to do it, and then responding to them. You don't send a memo, or do some "speak up" incentive program. It's got to be from the heart.

WSJ: What was the most satisfying decision you've made as a manager?

Mr. Fernandes: Once a month, I carry bags with the ramp boys, or I'm cabin crew, or at the check-in. I do this to get close to the operation. I also want to know my people. When I first started this, I met all these bright kids at the check-in or carrying bags. We were starting this cadet pilot program, and I said, "Let's open it up to anyone. Let some of these kids apply." They have the brains, but they just didn't have the money to get the education.Out of the first batch of 19 cadets, 11 came from within the company. Some of these boys got the highest marks ever in the flying academy. There was one kid who joined us to carry bags, and 18 months later he was a First Officer of a 737. Can you imagine what that does for the motivation in the company? Everyone talks about developing human capital, but we did it.

[PK-KAR]

can anyone confirm jetjockeys post regarding IAA's cancelled flights due to pilots mc's?
That's interesting... time to make some calls to friends in QZ... But I do know one who went to that "invite".

I agree with Chrome that something's not quite right about the following...
Flight to Jakarta that I’m talked about was flight ak954 on the 1st of February 2008...

The flight departed from KL on time ( 14.40lt ), when they were in contact with s’pore radar, they advised them that Jakarta closed since 08.20lt. Crew tried to contact Flt ops in KL, since they not been informed that Jakarta Int’l airport was closed, and no information on the NOTAM and Forecast wx is still within limit. Until they are out of reach, Flt ops ( your eagle ops ) unable to give any information to the crew. PIC decided to continue the flight to Jakarta, at that time most of alternate aerodrome was closed due weather or Full of a/c diverted ( PLM, SUB, HLM, DPS ) , Jakarta radar give them Solo airport as there alternate aerodrome and inform them that airport closed not because of low visibility but because of flooding on the runway due to heavy rain in the morning . At 15.10, ak 952 make holding over bunik at FL 270, PIC decided to contact Tower to know an update situation in the airport, Fortunately the ATC is his friend in the Flying school, so he can talk freely with their language and got an update condition of the runway. 15.40, ak952 landed in Jakarta airport, using only half of the runway 07L, because 1000m end of the runway filled with standing water ( 4mm-8mm ), while 07R still closed. Ak flight was the first a/c landed in Jakarta Soekarno Hatta airport that day ( its in the local news paper , Kompas and Suara pembaruan 2nd feb 2008 ), and most of the pax stranded in the airport until midnight because lack of transportation facility in the airport.
Hmm... I got something slightly different on that flight...
9M-AHC AK954 STA 1440Z+7 On blocks 1435Z+7 off blocks 15:34 as AK955... Oh hang on, flyeast was mentioning the time on Z+8?

Despite Jakarta being closed, 4 QZ aircraft did get in when the reported visibility was 300 meters, but the aircrafts mentioned declared runway in sight at 800ft AGL...
By the time AK954 was in the area, PLM was full, SUB open (with a long queue to the parking stands), HLM closed, DPS was still welcoming diverts.

By the time AK954 landed 07L/25R was open, but 07R/25L was closed, it reopened later with LDA/TORA 2200m from 07L (runway section between S1 - S3 closed due to standing water). Landings were on 25R if I remember correctly, and take offs were done on both 25R and 25L (2200 TODA after S3).

The aircraft that made it in were 9M-AFF (AK952) which came and went at 0800 - 0830-ish... just made it out before it was closed. Both AK flights were parked in D41...

The others were (in arriving order):
QZ7551 (-AWU), QZ7431 (-AWT), QZ7523 (-AWO) and QZ7497 (-AWQ)
DGAC investigated those arrivals and determined while those were technical breaches, they were not safety breaches as PICs were visual with runway at 800ft AGL... I guess other airlines/captains are now applying Rain-X on their windscreens now... Despite the airport being closed, those 4 wagonjets were cleared for the approach, and despite being visible at 800'AGL, Tower just kept telling them standby... Their reason for continuing to land... "we were in weather, visual with the runway, all alternates were clogging up, what do you expect us to do? Land in a swamp somewhere when the alternates end up closed?"

Flyeast I am quite impressed with your European flying and all but this is not the issue here. At first you say it's AK954 then later in the story it's AK952 but let's not care about that for now shall we?
One thing that doesn't match up is, if 07R/25L was closed, and AK952 landed using only a portion of the runway, I wonder what the departure was like? 952 had no runway problems as standing water wasn't an issue until 1100 local... AZ952 was on chocks at 0759, then off chocks again at 0830, but, QZ7494 (-AWN) and QZ7600 (-AWS) also left at around that time, off chocks at 0807 and 0810 local...

Now if there wasn't anything in the NOTAM and weather forecasted was good, how would they (if they had the intelligence to read it in the first place ) hide something that is not there in the first place?
Now where were those METARs I collected that day...


With all his flying experience (JAA Switzerland ATP etc etc) how would he know his old friend was working that day in the Tower?[/quote[
By the time AK954 left SIN ATC, CGK was clearing up anyways! And lo-and-behold, AK954 was on blocks only 14 minutes late, and was originally estimated to be 5 mins early... but traffic sequencing due to the backlog make it ending up slightly late.

[quote]Unable to call Eagle Ops or get latest METAR? I thought there is such thing called SATCOM or ACARS
WagonOps ????

Mr. Fernandes: To get people to think. At AirAsia, we want 4,000 brains working for us. My biggest challenge is to get people to talk, to express themselves, to get people to challenge me and say "Tony, you're talking rubbish.
" That's what I want, not people who say "Yes, sir." The senior management doesn't have all the answers. I want the guy on the ramp to have the confidence to tell me what's wrong.
The thing is not just whether TF really wants to hear what his people really think, but the information filter called "middle management" should be "sorted out" if he really means what he says... But mind you, despite being on the "wanted list" by AK&QZ ground staff in Surabaya, a 21 yr old fake-pilot (yes, fake) made it to a QZ dinner with TF in Indonesia, and the guy managed to say a few words of praises to TF and if I heard the info correctly, bad mouthed several left seaters in QZ at the same time... *shakes head*

PK-KAR

[QAR]

THE WALL STREET JOURNAL ON TF OF AIRASIA INTERVEIW.

WHAT A LOAD OF RUBBISH FROM CHEATING PEOPLE INTO BUYING CHEAP VCD'S DURING HIS TIME AT WARNER.

NOW IN THE AVAITION INDUSTRY TAKING HIS 4000 STAFFS AND ALL OF US FOR ONE HELL OF A JOY RIDE!!!!

THANKS MATE.

[kefz]

*Applause* captain wooblah.. well said... thats what i call kickin ass... cheers to u woob :) ur the man!

[NotHere]

NOW IN THE AVAITION INDUSTRY TAKING HIS 4000 STAFFS AND ALL OF US FOR ONE HELL OF A JOY RIDE!!!!

Sounded more like symbiosis.......:}

Happy landings

[Virtual Reality]

Hang it there, what happen to the latest 4.5G landing? :}

Any news, pics or latest updates? :E

Blame it on the rain again I guess ..........:{

[Simplicity]

I know this is a bit off topic, but asking if any Pilots or other AK staff have a general feeling of load factors and PAX traffic from October 2007 to present? AK has not published their PAX numbers since September and it would be good to hear from those who acually fly as to what the general trends are?

THANKS! :)

[angelgabriel]

guys,the time has come for us f/o's in AA to stand up show that we have a set of BALLS. we can't let them keep using us as their doormat.this so call pay increase for the f/o's is an insult and a bloody joke...it just shows that TF and the so called mgt think of us as pushovers...i don't blame them coz we keep letting this happen to us.
we 2 share the blame if something happens to the a/c,so why aren't we given a good pay hike.we need to stand up and act as ONE,so this **** will stop.

TAKE MASS MC'S AND SEE THE FLT OPS COME TO A HALT,SHOW THIS MONKEYS THAT WE ARE NOT GOING TO TAKE THIS ANYMORE..:ok:

[Ali Sadikin]

You guys are badly infected by the " ego " bug found in the orang putih kiddies masquerading as big time aviators! As QNH opine, cool down!

[420]

1013, what are u talking about man? Which post ate u referring to?

[QNH1013]

I'm obviously online more often than you....good, you have a life! :)
A couple of posts have been deleted either by the writers or the moderators so there is no issue anymore.
Happy Landings.

[irabdlatib]

The truth about Air Asia

Fasten Your Seat Belts : The Air Asia, Badawi, Singapore, Kamaludin, Tg Adnan, Kalimullah Story
Wednesday, 27 February 2008

By Little Bird

Kawan-kawan, please fasten your seat belts now. I thought that I knew something about what is really going on in the administration of Abdullah Badawi. Today I found out I have not even scratched the surface. The following is panas-panas news. You may want to hit the ejection button (not yours but theirs) after reading this.

Firstly, the shareholders and/or stakeholders of Air Asia (directly, indirectly, through proxies, etc.) include Kamaluddin bin Abdullah Badawi, Kalimullah Maseerul Hassan (also into Tune Hotels), Khairy Jamaluddin, Tony Fernandez, etc.

We all know the story of Air Asia. Well, we all thought it was a rags to riches story. It is actually a story about riches. The rags part is actually very hazy.

When MAS entered into a phase of 'restructuring' about three years ago, Air Asia, through Tony Fernandez, struck fast and furious.

Before we go further, you may want to ask why did MAS have to suffer yet another 'restructuring'? That is a story by itself for another day but just bear in mind that Badawi's brother, Ibrahim, is the owner of the catering company (Skychef?) that used to supply mineral water at RM35 a case to MAS.

With that kind of pricing, surely MAS would need 'restructuring'.

Anyway, Air Asia stepped in and pushed the Gomen for a 'rationalisation' of the domestic air routes in Malaysia. Air Asia asked to be given MAS' Sabah and Sarawak routes. MAS could keep flying in Semenanjung, they said. Despite objections by MAS, Air Asia was granted its wish.

But the wish did not just happen. Zaki, a fourth floor boy at the PM's office, helped Air Asia make its wish come true.

Once MAS lost its Sabah and Sarawak routes to Air Asia, there was a staff redundancy. So MAS had to organise a VSS. MAS demanded that since Air Asia was taking over their Sabah and Sarawak routes it would make some of their staff redundant so Air Asia should pay MAS some compensation.

Everyone (MAS, Gomen and even Air Asia) agreed that compensation was payable to MAS. But Air Asia would not pay anything. Finally, the Gomen (err that means you and me lah, Encik Taxpayer) paid the compensation to MAS, which MAS promptly used in one of the most expensive VSS payments in our history.

If your blood is starting to boil, stop reading and better cool off because it does not get better.

Then, within one year, Air Asia realised that the Sabah and Sarawak routes were not profitable. They never were. MAS was performing national service in Sabah and Sarawak. Flying chickens and goats is not a money-making venture.

No problem. Air Asia made another wish. They told the Gomen, we have to return these air routes back to MAS. Again MAS objected. Again overruled. Not relevant.

Then came the handing over ceremony of the air routes and the airplanes. When they took over the Sabah/Sarawak routes, Air Asia had 'acquired' seven airplanes from MAS in perfect working condition. (MAS does have one of the best safety records in the world.)

However, when Air Asia 'returned' the planes to MAS, only one was left in working condition. The other six planes were grounded, not fit for flying and could not fly.

In actual fact, Air Asia was cannibalising parts from the six planes to keep the seventh one flying. Again MAS objected. Again overruled. Not relevant. It eventually cost MAS in excess of RM50 million to make the planes flyable again. This was a direct subsidy to 'rags to riches' Air Asia's profits.

Then Air Asia started eyeing the lucrative KL-Singapore routes. Tighten your seat belts. This one will really jolt. But they went about it the roundabout way. They said they wanted to go international. They did (some) but international routes are tough. No Zaki, Badawi, Khairy, Kalimullah or Kamaluddin to make your wishes come true.

But the KL-Singapore sector was generating RM40 million in PROFITS to MAS. This was the plum in the pudding. Air Asia wanted it badly.

So they made another wish. It came true. This is how they did it. Air Asia's bid to break into the KL-Singapore sector was first discussed in Cabinet when Badawi was on holiday overseas. Najib chaired the meeting and Air Asia's application was rejected.

The application was rejected for two main reasons:

i. By 2009 the whole of ASEAN becomes open sky anyway. ASEAN airlines can fly to all ASEAN capitals without restrictions. So why open up KL-Singapore in double quick time?

ii. If budget flights are allowed between KL-Singapore, KLIA will die an unnatural death. KLIA will become a feeder airport for Singapore's Changi. People will fly from KL to Singapore and then fly off from Singapore to the rest of the world. MAS will then die a natural death. So the request was declined.

Then Badawi came back from his travels and asked Tengku Adnan the Minister of Tourism to prepare a paper on tourism, linking MAS, Air Asia, SIA, etc., to tourist arrivals. At the next Cabinet meeting chaired by Badawi, he asked Tengku Adnan to present the 'Cabinet paper'.

Insiders say that the paper was an 'out of Agenda' item - meaning it surprised everyone, but the dunggus approved it nonetheless. Air Asia got its wish again. Tengku Adnan also secured his Putrajaya seat.

Now here is the killer. Soon after Air Asia started flying the KL-Singapore sector, they started giving away 300,000 free tickets, 5 sen tickets and all the other gimmicks. Singapore is believed to be subsidising Air Asia for all these expensive gimmicks.

For SIA, losing RM40 million (S$17 million) profit from the KL-Singapore sector is chicken feed. Air Asia is feeding thousands of transit passengers from KL to Changi . Air Asia is providing RM19 bus rides from KL to KLIA. From KLIA, passengers fly almost free to Changi. From Changi the passengers can connect to the world.

Now, Air Asia is making another wish - they want to fly direct from Kuching, KK, Penang, Alor Setar, Kota Bharu, etc., to Changi. They will earn even more 'subsidies' from Singapore. KLIA will drop dead later, MAS will die first.

This is how we go from 'rags to riches'. And we all thought Tony Fernandez was such a great guy too. The shareholders and/or stakeholders of Air Asia (directly, indirectly, through proxies, etc.) include Kamaluddin bin Abdullah Badawi, Kalimullah Maseerul Hassan (also into Tune Hotels), Khairy Jamaluddin, Tony Fernandez, etc.

Yes, we believe in open skies, competition and all that. But friends, fellow Malaysians, this is the PM, his son, his S-I-L and his cronies lah. How can they sell out their own country? But this is what they are doing.

Kawan-kawan, come March 8th, 2008 you have an opportunity to hit the button for the ejecion seat. Hit the ejection button and send these people out into oblivion. Don't give them any parachutes either.

Lim Eng Ban

[lesenterbang]

irabdlatib, it would be nice if you can post the link to that article, thank you.

[Mcbeal]

Hi Guys, Am new to the thread, but have been following all your views/comments/frustrations etc... closely.

Anyways, I must say "angelgabriel" has a point, you F/Os need to stand for your rights. TAKE MASS MC'S and show the managment you guys are worth more and not any piece of ****.

When one ant fights its prey, its chances of being killed is high but can you imagine when a thousand ants go for one prey which is 3x its size what would it be like.......

Go for it guys...kick them in the ass.

[CAPTAIN WOOBLAH]

Well Said Mcbeal,

There is a sickening trend of degradation in the terms and conditions world wide and there seems to be a continuing trend of pilots accepting these conditions. I sincerely believe that the pilot community as a whole needs to band together and put a stop to this. Pilots lose their jobs and pensions and management get a pay rise and a huge bonus from the pension fund. "This stinks"

Wooblah.