Le gros problème - A380 and its super airport problems

[Ivasrus]

Well well well ... what have we here?

A380 - 30% more passengers but over 100% more landing slots per arrival

Why?

Well, wake spacing was predicted, disputed by Airbus, but now the best we can do is 6NM HVY following SUPER (8NM, 10NM for MED and LIGHT respectively).

Problem is, landing at SYD it normally takes FULL LENGTH of longest runway 16R/34L ~4000m (where it was supposed to land on the shorter 2500m crossing 07/25 without any problems). So ATC need to put even more spacing behind to ensure there's a departure slot available (have been numerous go-rounds due RWY occupied by A380 or following departure).

Why requiring the long rwy + full length?? Supposedly this SUPER revolutionary aircraft cooks its brakes. Ground crew in SIN position giant cooling fans next to the wheels at the gate. Such equipment isn't avilable in SYD, so minimum braking is being used by SQ to minimise brake temps and ensure the timetabled turnaround is met.

I would hope QF and other airlines introducing the A380 aren't planning quick A380 turnarounds without a set of Hollywood-style cyclone generators at every gate.

ADDITIONAL SAFETY CONCERN: A380 vacating has a 10 storey LOC blocker when it vacates the runway. Reported incidents of LOC loss by following acft in IMC.

PS. hopefully it's just a temporary training thing but slowing to 200kts at 6000FT doesn't do us or you any favours.

[2.5 miles]

At a certain LON airport we have yet to experience these issues, interesting to hear of operating problems being encountered. Runway occupancy was always going to be a problem (although I suspect it will be less than a recent B777). Particularly worrying is the effect on LOC signal and following IMC traffic and thus spacing. It seems at present that each new procedure we adopt is capacity negative. What speed do you normally have aircraft fly at 6000' and why such a problem? We frequently have B773's asking for 190kts and in certain wind conditions, instruct aircraft to fly at 180kts just so that we can get them to turn and stay within our tight airspace.:)

[TrafficTraffic]

Ahhhhh the innocence of well working downunder....

DNS you will find that (when you get to sandier climes) that Australia is indeed an Island when it comes to ATC.....


I am pretty sure that Airports like EGLL and EHAM all have speed gates and sequencing speeds at various points of a STAR or Approach not just 250B100.

Some of the ones into Amsterdam are (or used to be) quite restrictive requiring things like 210KTS within 30Nm or 160 Below A080.

Pretty sure that used to be the case

TT

[Ivasrus]

Didn't intend this thread to drift so quickly to the speed thing - but patronising comments from our Learned Desertified Experts are always welcome! ;)

Set speeds have been out of the books for years at YSSY but yes, our STARs only specifiy max 250 blw A100... so they're entirely within their rights to slow to 200 at 6000. We would *normally* expect jets to stay at 250 until 4000-ish as this is on what flow predicates the integrity of arrival sequence. Slower than turboprop speeds tends to cause grief. The A380 in particular is one aircraft we can't afford to let drag the chain. (It now goes without further mention that: yes, it's an ATC responsibility to set speeds.)

[NZScion]

It would have been interesting to see what the A380 would have been like without the inboard thrust reversers - if the brakes cook like has been said I wonder why airbus didn't pick up on this and start installing outboard reversers on the newer airframes...

[2.5 miles]

Dear all, wasn't trying to drag the topic off thread, simply curious as to how others do it. I am concerned that the UK airfields haven't fully considered the impact of A380 ops. If they have, no communication has reached the mushrooms yet, with only weeks to expecting services to start. Runway occupancy obviously hasn't been properly understood (seem to remember similar teething problems with B777's and steering issues on departure). Having just worked in LVP's couldn't help but wonder what sort of spacing and capacity loss we will encounter behind it?!