Pilot Shortage my ar**e

[Guptar]

There's a pilot shortage huh???, just read that QLink is cutting back on Armidale flights due lack of crew.

Bollocks!!!

There's heaps of talented, capable, competent drivers out there with logbooks full of quality hours that arent getting a look in, due to stupid criteria in interviews, psyche/personailty tests.

Airlines recruit only pilots, not bloody astronauts.

P.S.........Regarding the posts below, I have not applied, or been knocked back. Only used QFLink as an example. Same could apply for REX, VB, QF et al.

[Erin Brockovich]

Relax mate. Why do you want to work for Qantas Sink anyway?

[neville_nobody]

Yeah understand your frustration, know two guys who were pretty switched on, with alot of IFR hours get knock back by QantasLink. Given they are facing a pilot shortage I really think they need to review the way they recruit.

Both those guys ended up flying jets one for a Qantas group company!

My only guess is that they don't want guys who are too good as they might just leave quickly!

[Kickatinalong]

I would say the tests are working fine after a response like that.
Kickatinalong:=:=:=

[morno]

Ohhhh, somebody looks like they got knocked back by QantasLink, :E:E.....

Get over it and find another job. If they have to cut back routes because of lack of crew, that's their own problem.

morno

[Wizofoz]

They're not short of Recruits (not yet anyway!!) but you can only train at a certain rate. When large numbers of your experienced guys leave, you can only play catch up for so long.

[No1Dear]

There is no pilot shortage in Australia.
You are quite correct.
All the majors have many more well qualified applicants than they could ever need in the foreseeable future.
There is however a shortage of people that are desperate enough to work for nothing or close to it that has been offered in recent years in GA or the regionals.
This is a good start I guess.
The state of economies around the world will decide if this flows through to the majors or not in the near future.

[Capt Wally]

I'm with you 'nev', I know of a few well qualified guys who missed out on the regionals over the years & eventually went into mainstream &/or corporate. I happen to agree there isn't a shortage of pilots as such just a shortage of ones that 'fit' some of the employers requirements, however odd they may seem !

CW

[Icarus53]

Some people need a bit of perspective on the psych testing/interviews.

Unfortunately for some people, the purpose of the tests is not to ensure that every applicant that would be able to do the job to standard gets through the gate - it is to ensure that everyone who gets through the gate can do the job to standard!

Sadly, airlines do not exist simply to provide a career path for pilots and they have no obligation to search for every single person who could do the job - to achieve this would require much more complicated and rigorous testing (which would cost more and produce a marginal number of additional candidates).

Ultimately this means that there will be a set of applicants who are more than capable of the task (and in some cases would be better pilots than others who do get through) but which the testing system eliminates. A qualified psych would give a better explanation, but the bottom line for the company is - people who do better than X on the testing rarely fail cyclics; those below X are substantially more likely to fail and pose a training risk.

I am genuinely sympathetic to pilots who don't get through the hoops - I know several people I consider to be excellent operators (and more experienced than me) who didn't get the job I have.

Having said that the system does produce the desired result for the company so I say this to people who persist in whinging about "stupid criteria":

Design a cost effective testing system that proves beyond reasonable doubt that you are a suitable applicant - then sell it to the airlines. If the pilot shortage finally hits the big boys, you'll make a lot more money out of it than you would as an FO.

I look forward to someone coming up with the pilot selection system of the future.

Icarus

[BR715]

So by passing a pysch test you are more likely to pass a cyclic? I would have thought thats why they do a Sim check to establish ones flying skills and a interview to establish ones attitude, work ethic, etc and all the other stuff

[Icarus53]

A couple of things:

Firstly, the sim check tests basic instrument flying and your ability to learn and adapt to new situations. Cyclics test a huge amount more than that. Also, a sim check is a subjective assessment, whereas a psych test is objective.

Second - this is not a direct relationship, it's just a matter of statistics. Your result on a particular test may not be directly related to flying performance, but the statistics say that if you fail a test, there is a certain higher likelihood that you won't be successful down the track.

The company then determines what the acceptable risk is and eliminates those who fall outside the criteria.

[BR715]

Thanks for going into more depth regards to the physc test. When you explain it like that makes perfect sense:)

[nomorecatering]

Next you will be telling me that CASA is there to help the industry.

Talking to a friend of mine tonight who is a psychology professor in Sydney, he was saying that they have foistered the biggest con on all industries, its all about creating the need for.....psychologists and consultants. He freely admits that.

Further more, he said that he can creat a psych test that proves thatall of us are left handed, cross-dressing homosexuals with latent axe murderer tendencies.

[nomorecatering]

Next you will be telling me that CASA is there to help the industry.

Talking to a friend of mine tonight who is a psychology professor in Sydney, he was saying that they have foistered the biggest con on all industries, its all about creating the need for.....psychologists and consultants. He freely admits that.

Further more, he said that he can creat a psych test that proves thatall of us are left handed, cross-dressing homosexuals with latent axe murderer tendencies.

[tail wheel]

Point made.

Thread drift!

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v315/Woomera/Closed-1.gif

Tail Wheel

[Capt Wally]

"Tail wheel" I am at a loss as to why you closed the thread pertaining to "pilot shortage my A**E?. Am keen to understand what criteria was breached esspecially seeing as the particular thread unlike others still running in here is probably the most relevant to new hopefuls that I've read thus far! Sure there will always be 'hot heads' in here we've wittnessed that many times but the few threads that got thru before yr heavy hand didn't to me seem offensive in any way?

Just an expalination from yr side will do tnxs, am sure I'm talking for a few in here, don't shoot the messenger !:bored:

CW

[ABX]

Capt., he gave his reason in the comments at the end of the closed thread. There has been a fair bit of comment from the mods lately about their need to clean things up a bit.

Have you read the sticky at the top of the page "The Ten Thingies"?

Cheers,

ABX

[carbon]

I agree Capt W. I don't see who was harmed by this thread's existence, and while it may have encountered a slight thread drift, I feel it was relevant enough.

I understand the mods have a tough and loveless job, though am dumbfounded in this instance.:hmm:

[tail wheel]

Threads questioning Mod actions are automatically closed or removed, without comment. There are other more appropriate means of communication with Mods, including PMs and email.

However, on this occasion I've merged the threads and comment as follows:

Subject: "Pilot Shortage my ar**s"

Post # 1: "There's a pilot shortage huh???"

Post # 15: "Psyche test objective??"

I closed this thread as it was obvious Guptar has his opinion and made his point, the next few posts are relevant, then the thread wandered off into totally unrelated territory.

If you wish to discuss psyche testing, why not start a new thread? :confused: :confused:

It is very frustrating for viewers to open a thread in which they are interested, only to find the thread full of irrelevant one liners, leading to total thread drift and an unrelated topic.

And even more frustrating to Mods who must read virtually every post, in the very limited time thay have available to Proon. We simply do not have the time to split out posts and move to a more relevant thread topic.

On January 19, Danny mentioned:
So far today (2225Z) we've had over 23,000 registered visitors and over 1,000 new registrations!!!! I'll know how many the total visits is later tomorrow but I can tell you that we have shown over 600,000 pages and the system is predicting we will have shown about 700,000 by midnight. Yesterday we had just under 60,000 unique visitors from a norm of about 35,000. That was over 120,000 visits in total. By extrapolation, I am fairly sure that the numbers will show we had over 80,000 unique visitors in total today. Today that'll be around 160,000 visits in total.The Dunnunda Forums account for around 14% of that traffic - which results in a very significant number of posts for Mods to read and possibly edit. Sometimes a thread goes so far off track it is simply easier to close, rather than try to edit.

Moderating PPRuNe is often a thankless task. Decisions are on occasion perhaps, subjective. Mods are subject to abuse - first email I received this morning contained only two words: "F--- Y---". That literacy challenged user is no longer with us! :mad:

There are rules and a standard to be maintained. Mods would appreciate your help and cooperation.

Tail Wheel

[KRUSTY 34]

Fair enough Tailwheel.

Now, FP_Ace said,

"bullsh*t that's just and excuse to cut out unprofitable routes.Well it was for R*x anyway"

I wouldn't be so sure of that mate. REX slashed the unprofitable routes years ago, and they were ruthless about it. In the last 6 months all the reductions in services have been the result of not enough crew to service the schedule.

The tradgedy, is that the services cut this year will in fact be money makers. The decision on which regional centres keep their service or at the very least suffer the least reduction, will ultimately depend on their level of profitability!

The real losers in all of this will be the traveling public.

[chief wiggum]

Gee Krusty. Not too sure about REX having cut "unprofitable routes" BECAUSE they weren't making money.
Indeed, if you go back thru REX's media releases, you will find contradicting statements re ARMIDALE.

In2004/2005 end of year report, they stated that they had commenced extra services including ARM which was exceeding all expectations, and contributing to the bottom line!!
then when they pulled out, they stated that ARM had NEVER made money and the decision was made etc etc etc.
Now I do NOT have access to REX, QLNK or anyones day to day running costs etc, and certainly am not privvy to any board room discussions, but these two statements appear to be just spin put out by them to serve their own purpose.
Conincidentally, it came at the SAME time that QF pulled out of SA!
That whole mantra of "we are here to serve the regional communities" is just a load of cr@p.
Now THEY are bleating about being hard done by because pilots leave for greener pastures?
STIFF!

[404 Titan]

For those that don’t think there is a shortage of suitable pilots. I suggest you think again.

1. Shortages of suitable pilots and pilot turnover are directly related and proportional. Ask any GA company (charter and flying school), Regional airline and the RAAF what their turnover has been like?
2. An experienced pilot or talented pilot “DOESN’T” mean they are necessarily suitable. I have interviewed plenty of experienced and talented pilots when I was in GA that were totally unsuitable for our operation.
3. During times like these when there is a high turnover of pilots and falling experience levels (to keep costs down), it is even more important to distinguish between those that are suitable and those that aren’t to slow the turnover.
4. “Exceeding all expectations, and contributing to the bottom line!!” doesn’t mean that the route is profitable. It strict accounting terms all it is saying is that it is contributing revenue to the revenue stream. Revenue doesn’t necessarily translate into profit. Once you subtract expenses (Costs), only then will you know if it profitable. Considering resources (Pilots) are becoming scarce, it is sensible to use those resources wisely and deploy them where they can generate the largest profits.

So yes there is a shortage of suitable pilots. It is being felt at all levels of the aviation industry. The evidence is overwhelming and irrefutable.

[aileron_69]

This is all well and good, and I cant speak for big planes, but in GA there are operators out there that have absolutely top blokes working for them, doing a fantastic job, but these operators dont seem to see that, are tight with wages, and just induce a pilot shortage cos these guys can get a better paying job so easily. I know a lot of guys want to fly airliners and I could be worng, but i'd hazard a guess that there are a lot of guys who would be quite happy to continue flying GA but for the average pay its just not worth it.
I used to work for a GA company that was like that, and now work for another one that doesnt mind paying its pilots well, and guess what....noone talks about trying to get the hell out of the company asap, noone grizzles that they should be paid more.
I believe that if the $$$ were put up a bit and in GA especially, the conditions were made more appealling, then there would be a lot less pilot movement. Granted there will always be people that want to move up, but its worth a thought.
Thats what I reckon anyway

[Mach E Avelli]

It's not all the operators' fault. The big clients like the miners play everyone off against the other to screw down contract terms and prices. Even for ad hoc work the brokers get in on the act and screw the operators so that they can look good for getting the best deal. And who knows what they skim off the top?
The smaller operators in turn screw their costs down every which way they can. That includes skimping on maintenace and staff. If I was a little guy with a million of my own money on the line I would probably do whatever it took to win the business. Most little operators and some big ones only survive day to day on cash flow. They don't even set aside money for maintenance reserves for big ticket items like engines and props. Sure the cowboys and real shonky users deserve to go out of business, but talk to most of them and they say that they at least provide employment and a means for young pilots to get experience.
Maybe one day when a dozen top executives all get buried along with an under-maintained 30 year old aeroplane or an inexperienced crew, everyone from the customer through the operators to CASA will wake up. But I am not holding my breath.

[Capt Wally]

On behalf of the parties in here that care about such threads (obviously not all) where any help by way of personal knowledge is better than nothing regarding the employment to the airlines is much appreciated & I thank you Tail Wheel.
Sure I appreciate the task you guys have at Moderating the posts in here that seem to drift off the original post but having read a fair amount of threads an enormous amount drift off anyway, how can they not?. Thread drift or personal opinions is the way humans relate & communicate, there are no 'rules' as such I believe in any conversation other than common sense & respect. The latter is where some seem to go off the rails a bit here & that's where we would like it for you guys to step in & use yr powers.

"ABX" just quickly I've re read the Mods reiteration of "the ten thingies" TY & feel that none applied here:)

Again TY Mods for allowing the feelings of some to be heard without prejudice:)

CW:)

[apache]

Mach E Avelli.... Some time ago in the US, a charter plane/bizjet DID go down with all of its board members aboar. For that reason, a lot of companies now forbid all / most of their top execs from travelling on the same aircraft/boat/train/rickshaw etc.

404 Titan..I took the time to go to the REX site and will reproduce exactly what it says:
Three new routes were commenced during the year. In September 2004 the Company started for the first time a service into a hitherto Qantaslink monopoly route, Sydney–Armidale. The Company’s entry into this market has exceeded expectations in terms of passenger growth and revenue and currently contributes to overall profitability.

I think that Wiggum maybe just phrased it wrong.

and for those that want to re-read the ARM withdrawal...http://www.asx.com.au/asxpdf/20060602/pdf/3x0b3n4ymp74h.pdf

[KRUSTY 34]

Gidday Clancy.

Agree with you. The buggers are so full of it sometimes it makes me sick. Armidale was starting to make money, so was Coffs, and some even think Canberra was worth sticking to! but I think that may have been stretching it. The fact is REX has never hesitated to cut services if it suited them.

The difference now of course is they have no choice. Time will tell just how many regional towns have their services cut or lose them altogether!

[404 Titan]

apache

Thanks for that. It would be interesting to see how much it was contributing to the profits in 2007 though. If I was put in the position of operating an airline and all my routes were profitable but my resources were clearly stretched beyond breaking point, then I would be faced with either cancelling services add hock or cutting back the schedule. The cleanest way would be to cut the schedule and you would start by cutting the least profitable and working up from there. Once you get to a point where you have sufficient resources, you stop.

[Capt Wally]

See 'tail wheel' further to my earlier post thread drift is rife in all threads. This thread is a perfect EG. of how humans process info & 'add' to it. I have no qualms about thread drift lets face it you can head up a thread with words that effect a huge amount of other avenues as we have seen here time & time again then a shift in thoughts will always be the end result:-):)
We have transgressed from how inportant 500 hrs multi time is (the original topic which alomst got canned ) in the scheme of things to yet again more REX 'bashing'!. Am happy with that REX needs bashing they are one of the worst Co's around for employees poor treatment & low moral but we all already known this ! I love all aspects of this medium after all it is a public medium based on rumors.
Ok am sure this will probably get axed but I feel I do speak for a lot of others here.

CW:)

[Q4NVS]

Since when does "Wanting to Fly" qualify you to do so...? :eek:

I mean, I've been "Wanting to Fly" the Space Shuttle for 20 years, but still haven't received the call-up!

Damn NASA !!!

[Capt Wally]

You see 'wanting' to fly is a pre requesit to do just that! Like most things in life you need to 'want' to do something in order for it to be so, esspecially done right:-)

'Q4NVS' perhaps NASA have lost yr No ? Dial 000 then ask for the flight dep, they ought to be able to help a 'wanting' pilot !:}

CW:ok:

[Mach E Avelli]

1000 applicants for free flying lessons. Why not? 500 get through psych test (maybe) leaves 500. 300 of those pass medical. 150 pass simulator or similar aptitude test. 50 drop out in training because it is too hard or not what they expected or they get a better offer from a law firm or whatever. Leaves 100 genuine candidates from the 1000 who started kicking tyres. Now where are the instructors to train these 100?
All gone to the airlines meantime. Talk about an industry which has devoured its young at birth.
Never mind, the recession will provide a measure of correction to the problem. It will only take a couple of the big players who have over-cooked it to go tits-up and there will again be pilots. Maybe not as many as in the bad old days of a pilot over-supply. I would not be too keen on starting out right now from zero hours with the thought that the shortage would still be there by the time I qualified. But, back to the free flying lessons. Bring it on.

[404 Titan]

Mach E Avelli

Just for the record, you would be lucky to get 10 suitable candidates out of 1000 original applicants, not 100. Of these 10 candidates you can then expect to loose another 20-50% during the training process.

[Gearupandorrf]

Never mind, the recession will provide a measure of correction to the problem. It will only take a couple of the big players who have over-cooked it to go tits-up and there will again be pilots. Maybe not as many as in the bad old days of a pilot over-supply. I would not be too keen on starting out right now from zero hours with the thought that the shortage would still be there by the time I qualified. But, back to the free flying lessons. Bring it on.

Actually Mach, I amongst many others feel that Australia is in a strong position to weather the economic storm that is the result of the Sub- prime crisis and US economic slowdown.

In the short term, there may be a slight drop off in demand for domestic travel as those who are within a few months/ years of retirement find that their portfolios have dropped 5- 10% within the last few weeks. However, for the rest of us, disposable income for that long weekend in Surfers or wherever is still there. Even those who plan to retire should realise that what we've witnessed in the last week on the financial markets is a result of fear (panic selling), and is not a true indication of the underlying strength of the Australian economy.

If I were in Government, my two biggest fears would be:
1. House prices crashing with Interest Rates still going up which for many will result in negative equity, thereby destroying disposable income and causing the economy to retract and;
2. All that precious metal in the ground running out.

Before this post gets binned due to being off topic, it boils down to this one last thought:
Demand for air travel will remain strong, and I would start training from 0 hours with confidence that there will still be plenty of jobs around in 12- 18 months' time. HOWEVER: do so on a "learn as you earn" basis without going deep into personal debt.

I'd also be interested to hear others thoughts on the above too.

Cheers,
Gearup.

[bushy]

If only 10 out of 1000 get to fly a SAAB I wonder if the wannabies will keep coming.
We must be a nation of dummies if we cannot do better than that.

[Mach E Avelli]

I share the hope that Oz weathers any recession. If it doesn't my few modest investments won't have been a good idea. But a wider recession means a few big airlines with huge orders on their books or huge debts from recent deliveries will likely fold or cut back , so dumping pilots on the world market. As we have been told elsewhere in these threads, some local companies have advertised overseas for pilots. If the demand can't be filled locally we are bound to see more infidels on our shores. Hence my pessimistic forecast for those contemplating spending their own hard-earned on flying lessons. Study law, instead. Even in a recession, people divorce (more so) and sue each other.

[Gearupandorrf]

Apart from doing some flying, I've just enrolled to commence my Accounting degree in February.

If there's one thing that this game has taught me- have a solid backup plan!

[tubby one]

Mach E A - you are quite right a number of local companies have gone off-shore looking for pilots and for the most part have returned empty handed because the demand outside OZ is even greater than the demand inside Oz.
Yes there will surely be some airlines that pull bakc in the next year or so if the market keeps going the way it is - but that will have little impact on the overall supply of pilots here or anywhere else for that matter. The realities are that air travel is growing at an unprecedented rate in India, Asia and China and even a 20-30% down turn would have little overall impact on the demand for pilots. Added to this the very real shortge of instructors here and elsewhere there is simply not going to be the trained replacements available. I would seriously doubt if we will ever again see a 'glut' of pilots.;)

[PosClimb]

I would seriously doubt if we will ever again see a 'glut' of pilots.

I think that remark may go down in history along with "Peace in our Time" or "Dewey defeats Truman".

[tubby one]

PosClimb - happy to be judged by history, but I very much doubt I will finish in the same basket as Chamberlain.
If you doubt the seriousness of the current situation and why the position is unlikely to return the 'good ole days' I suggest you look at the bottom left hand corner of page 30 in todays Oz. QLink seeking pilots with CPL and preferably ATPL theory plus HSC English and Maths. Desirable but NOT essential MECIR, 100 hours PIC and Bachelor's Degree.:p

[KRUSTY 34]

Tubby. Agree with you in the forseable future at least.

Like most things this may be cyclic. The difference this time is that there are several factors coming together to make this supply problem an order of magnitude not seen in living memory!

I believe the supply of pilots will improve, but it won't happen overnight. The profession has been so run down, (even at the higher levels) that the only thing that will reinvigorate it will be drastically increased Terms and Conditions.

Most operators appear to be fiddleing around the edges. While Rome burns in some cases! Cadet schemes, (flawed due to a chronic lack of instructors). Employing very low time pilots, (flawed due to the inabilty, either capability wise or legally for these people to be upgraded to command). Road shows and looking overseas, What has that produced? Zip! (flawed because this problem is global).

As a society we have more choice than ever before. And very few young Australians are choosing aviation. Trying to lure unsuspecting juveniles with schemes containing more legs than a spider may have had limited sucess in the past, but I think in today's environment it really is a case of clutching at straws! Untill such time as the industry chooses to address the underlying reason for the shortage, the situation will only get worse.

[PosClimb]

Most operators appear to be fiddleing around the edges. While Rome burns in some cases! Cadet schemes, (flawed due to a chronic lack of instructors). Employing very low time pilots, (flawed due to the inabilty, either capability wise or legally for these people to be upgraded to command). Road shows and looking overseas, What has that produced? Zip! (flawed because this problem is global).Okay, let's put the pilot shortage to the test...

I'm available.

My minimum salary expectation is $120,000 per year USD, which is my current salary in IT. But since I'm low time I'll accept $80,000.

Employer needs to provide a full expat package, including schooling, arrange for license conversion, hotels and housing, airfare to Australia, the works.

I shall now sit back and watch my inbox fill up with offers...

You guys will probably laugh at this, but in my industry (or in any serious profession like engineering), what I just said would be standard, especially if your skills where in a field that was experiencing a real "shortage".

[PosClimb]

Well, I'm still waiting for an offer :}

Not one yet I'm afraid...

[Howard Hughes]

QLink seeking pilots with CPL and preferably ATPL theory plus HSC English and Maths. Desirable but NOT essential MECIR, 100 hours PIC and Bachelor's Degree.
I fail to see how this is a better quality candidate than someone with No HSC, a valid ATPL, MECIR with considerable I/F experience, 5000 hours in command (much of which is multi-crew) and undertaking further study!:rolleyes:

I just don't get it!:{

[bushy]

I remember, a long long time ago Qantas had a sign in the window of the Brisbane office saying that if you had a ppl and 500 hours they would like to talk to you.
I also remember a few years later I met a young man who had a Qantas cadetship. They were paying for his flying training, 10 hours at a time, and he was making his fourth attempt to pass the CPL nav exam. He had failed three times. It wasn't that hard. I passed them all in one week. I never saw him again.
404 Titan
If they can only get 10 pilots out of 1000 applicants they will always be short of pilots. The rest will go elsewhere. That is rediculous.

[PlankBlender]

Tubby One, you hit the nail on the head :D, according to most serious economists the current situation is a temporary dip! Yes, the US is probably headed for a small "r", but a new president there and strong growth in the rest of the world will cushion the blow -- I doubt it'll be felt much in Oz in the medium term as the local economy and that of our neighbours shows no signs of letting up, and the fundamentals like supply of raw materials and demand from Asia are very strong also..:)

Quick tangential rant: The whole housing topic can and should be ignored from an individual's point of view as it's just bank-induced stupidity to buy into such a ridiculous market :ugh: Rent, invest the money you would have spent on a mortgage, double your money every ten years (conservatively speaking), be more flexible and look back with a smile rather than just trading up every few years and ending up with an overpriced piece of junk in 30 years time :eek:, having spent most of your disposable income in the process to line some banker's pocket.. look around the world, it seems to be the Anglosaxons and their societal heirs who're as silly and emotional when it comes to home ownership :ooh:! Rant over!

As per pilot numbers, there's enough evidence around :8 in aeroplane sales figures, current pilot age/retirement projections, passenger growth all around the world, and the like, to strongly suggest that what we're seeing at the moment is only the beginning of a pretty fundamental shake-up in the Oz aviation industry :ok:. Most things flying Down Under have been a bit special in the past for a variety of reasons, but global demand, cheaper/easier FIFO deals and a more flexible global workforce are now starting to make a real difference!

As per the effects on GA, yes, local prices/T's&C's etc. will need to go up, but that will in turn attract pilots who not necessarily want to fly long haul or large jets (I bet they're enough of us out there) and the game will no doubt go on. I'd be willing to bet on that, actually :} Remember, the basic laws of supply and demand never change, and demand in aviation services will not just suddenly vanish as prices go up (it's called elasticity of demand, and it's very real also), so there'll still be money to be made to savy entrepeneurs :cool:

And there's another notable thing going on: With a lot of the global growth in aviation happening in the relative neighbourhood, Australia's reputation for good quality training, high standards of theory testing (yes the CASA phenomenon has its good side, would you believe it:}), and the abundance of space and good weather, the government's pledge to develop the "world's leading aviation training industry" doesn't sound far-fetched at all. Again I would be inclined to bet that in ten years' time we will see literally dozens of new small and large players out there, making a handsome return with cadets from all over Asia, India, the Middle East, you name it.

In summary, yes, things are going to change, there will be casualties along the line, but I get the distinct impression that we're headed for a much stronger and larger and more profitable aviation industry in this country.

..now ducking for cover from the assorted mudslinging nay-sayers, pessimists, and past-glorifying dinosaurs ;)

[404 Titan]

bushy

From what I have seen in my company, when they advertise their cadet scheme they will get 2-3000 applications from around the world. 80% of these applicants won’t even get the chance at an interview because they are clearly unsuitable for the scheme. It is no different in Australia. Just ask the air force what their strike rate is like for pilot recruitment?

[Towering Q]

PlankBlender...not so sure about your tangential rant, but the rest of it is spot on.:ok:

[Barramundi]

Guptar opened this thread with;

"There's heaps of talented, capable, competent drivers out there with logbooks full of quality hours that arent getting a look in, due to stupid criteria in interviews, psyche/personailty tests."

I agree but if you are an older pilot chances are you will not need to worry about psyche and personality tests because there is overwhelming evidence to show you will not get an interview anyway!!!.

[Capt Wally]

........hey 'van g' aviation is like that, just not for the workers !:)

We've heard it a zillion times here. (type typical).....aged experienced guy with well above the mins is already employed in a multi crew environment just seeking to bring that experience and the opertunity to stay a while for a major & still they pass him over!. He fails the physco test, only completed year 11 at best but the 10000 hrs & ireplaceable experience he's accumulated along the way doesn't mean squat !!!!
They don't want pilots anymore, they want educated monkies who they can mould & pay 'em peanuts !.........this we are seeing now, not tomorrow !

BTW the above isn't myself either, yr 11 would have been great !:bored:


CW:)

[interstella 555]

Hi

just got another knockback "no competitive enough" if there is a pilot shortage why will no one return my calls. I just clicked over the 1500/600ME a few days ago but i have been applying for jobs for the last 2 months. I really just want out of GA and remote locations so why if there is a shortage can i not even get a callback from the numerous regional airlines out there ??

help what am i doing wrong, this reminds me of the bad old days

IS555

[tubby one]

Barra - strange actually know a >60 pilot who started flying with R*x in December 07!!!!!:rolleyes:

[Towering Q]

Have you tried any of the Perth operators? With those hours I thought you would have had no troubles.

IR current?

[interstella 555]

Towering Q,

yeah i have not tried WA but as most of my family and friends are east coast i would rather not be so far away,
and yes i have current CIR, frozen ATPL's

IS555

[Lodown]

Re: Older Pilots

They'd have to replace those fancy digital CRT contraptions with some trustworthy analog thingies that I can understand!

[tinpis]

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2008/02/09/2158429.htm

[wrongwayaround]

Quote:
"We're very fortunate to be an airline that's in a strong financial position," he said.

"There's other airlines out there that don't have the ability that Rex has, in terms of financial strength, to cope with that."



THEN PAY YOUR PILOTS YOU..... IDIOTS!

[KRUSTY 34]

How long will that financial strength last Warrick?

All the indicators are that this year will be as bad if not worse than last year. If you guys want to garrentee another 60%+ pilot loss this year, then continue what you are doing.

In 12 months time you will be a brave man indeed my friend if you can face the public with that statement!

[Lefthanded_Rock_Thrower]

No CEO in his right mind, or board in their right mind will allow a non profitable business to continue, no matter how much they like their staff:).

[KRUSTY 34]

Whether in their right mind or not LRT, it is illegal to trade as a public company whilst insolvent. REX are not there yet, but if they continue the way they are going, it will only be a matter of time. So I take your point with that regard.

And who said REX management like their staff. If they do, then they have a strange way of showing it.

With respect to their current actions, exactly what point are you trying to make?

[ABX]

Oh Lodown,


They'd have to replace those fancy digital CRT contraptions with some trustworthy analog thingies that I can understand!


Mate I think that statement is right for you! AFAIK they are not Cathode Ray Tubes (CRT) but Liquid Crystal Displays (LCD).

In any case, I thought it was a beautiful way of showing how correct your comment was!

Cheers mate.:ok:

ABX (And all I ever got was year 11...:{)