Validation

[mikeb19]

I have been looking on this forum and have been come quite concerned over the percentage that validate -25%.
What happens to the massive proportion that dont validate? Do they stay at Nats or are there alternatives. Is there still a future at
NATS if you dont validate? It seems quite strange that NATS invest so much into training yet very few make it all the way.

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

That somebody fails to validate does not mean the end of a career - many will move to other units and try again.

Problem is, it is nigh on impossible to tell if a controller will validate until he/she starts live training. I've seen a few who have achieved very high marks at the college and not even got past the simulator at their station.. Some who got past the simulator could not hack the live environment for a variety of reasons, not because they were badly trained. One or two I had dealings with simply panicked when dealing with live traffic - one refused to employ minimum radar separation because they felt it was too dangerous!

Some trainees grasp the operational problems very quickly, others take longer.... some never do Unfortunately nobody has found a way to determine if someone will validate until they get down to live work.

Qualifications mean virtually nothing - plenty of exceptional university graduates are totally lost in front of a radar tube whilst many thickies (like me) adapt to the job with few difficulties.

Will, one day, potential controllers receive an injection of a microchip and next day work the busiest sector........ I wonder?

[chevvron]

Additional to what HD says; in some cases people are offered jobs as assistants and then can apply for re-training later, other times they might be transferred to area from aerodrome or vice-versa.
HD; as regards the one who was 'scared' of radar separations, had they done the PPL course? I did that on the old style ATCO Cadet Course, plus the airways route flying, and it certainly gave you a different perspective; when you were told of traffic 5 miles or even 3 miles away, you looked, saw it and thought ' it's miles away, why are they telling me it'll never get close'!!

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

Chev... I'm not sure whether the ATCO concerned had a PPL but had certainly not done the same cadet course as you. It was a weird situation. The person could achieve 3nm but just insisted it was too dangerous. Not sure where the person ended up - some distance from our area I guess.

[Spamcan defender]

I know of a couple of folks on my course that made it to live training but couldnt hack it. Moved on to pastures new within the company; 1 became an assistant and the other went to Scottish.

I think it would be reasonabe to say that the further down the road to validation you are AND if you have the right attitude then the Company will tend to see you OK.

Spamcan

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

I think that's fair statement, Spamcan. Attitude makes an enormous difference. Somebody who turns up on station convinced that they are God's Gift to ATC probably won't make it - I've seen a good few of those. On the other hand, those prepared to quietly study, follow and implement advice given by their Training Officers stand a much better chance.

Just before I retired a young ATCO arrived from the College and after a few months I was invited to join one of the regular oral boards - usual Q&A session to check progress. The board chairman gave the student an outline map of the LTMA with the request to fill in as much info as possible. We expected one or two VORs, maybe the odd aerodrome name, etc. After an hour the map looked like something out of the AIP - masses of info all carefully drawn in with no errors. Needless to say = one validation.

Best story? Well.. lots of years ago a "mature" ATCO from the College was posted in to Heathrow. He simply didn't fit in, nor was he particularly good at the job. He went on a fam flight and told the crew he'd been posted in to "sort out" the younger element. Unfortunately, the hostie who was just bringing him a cuppa happened to be married to one of his training officers and she kind off passed along what she'd heard... He never made it..

[Roffa]

I recall hearing that something like 90% of the trainees that come through TC successfully validate if not at TC then somewhere else.

NATS is still short of atcos, put the work in and even if things don't quite work out for you if posted to one of the busiest units then you'll still have received a very good grounding for any subsequent posting.

[smellysnelly2004]

Mike,

Whilst it's good to be aware of validation rates and have half an eye on where you want to be in a few years, I would say that when you get to the college the best approach is to concentrate on working as hard as you can to pass whichever assessment/exam/summative is upcoming. They come thick and fast from about week 6 and you don't really have too much time to think about what's going to happen later on.
All you can do is your best and hope that it's enough :ok:
Good luck.

[WhatUMean]

The biggest worrying thing now is the recent practice, of just giving aerodrome ratings or just radar ratings, the practice before of students who failed at a particular unit (Say area but held a tower rating also) is meaning it less likely then for controllers to go and get jobs at none NATS units etc. It also limits even NATS with where they can send people, get say a tower only rating because your were being sent to EGLL say and fail, then you then only really have the choice of other tower only units unless NATS deems it worth while sending you back to the college to do an Approach course.

But as others have said, the simple answer is study hard at your unit, keep your head down, remember there are some big egos at some units!

[2.5 miles]

I seem to remember some years ago that Terminal Control claimed a 100% validation rate! ALL those that failed training at TC in a certain period were posted elsewhere and subsequently validated, in no small part due to experience gained in the London TMA, hence 100% validation rate!!!!

Lies, Damn Lies and Statistics