Kalitta Addition

[GotTheTshirt]

KALITTA AIR, MI purchased 747-200F (21099) with JT9Ds from Kitty Hawk; it now has four 747-200Fs.

:) :)

[CR2]

Any idea what kind of condition its in? Some of the Kitty Hawk planes I've seen have been seriously shabby.

[redtail]

Kalitta needs an Emery style inspection from the Friendly Aviation Advisors.

[Willit Run]

Mr. Redtail,
Why would you wish anyone that kind of nonsense?
Connie has gone way out of the way to start up this business again. He doesn't need the money for gods sake. He is providing good jobs for a fair number of folks and from what I can tell, they are all fairly happy there. Many left other jobs to go back there.

Get off your high horse and be thankfull there are some jobs to be had!!!

[legend11]

Well spoken Willit Run- too bad so many folks in this forum have it in for their airline management...and just have to take the opportunity to take shots at someone else who is and has been successful.

Nuff said....

[redtail]

I'd just like to see Kalitta have to play by the same set of rules the rest of us have to follow. The company I work for hired many of the Kalitta mechanics after Kalitta went tango uniform, and they all had interesting and refreshing views on paperwork and FARs, as well as many colorful stories.

[Huck]

I talked to a whale captain that recently left Polar to go back to Connie. He said he wasn't there for the money or the lifestyle, but for the entertainment that Connie provides!

[polzin]

Willit maybe run.,,,,,, Sounds like you seak as an employee or former employee. Which aircraft are/were you on ? Lots of right wing nuts in your part of the country, aren't there?

[Willit Run]

Come on Polzin,. .I thought you were sharper than that. Maybe there is merit to the age 60 rule after all!!!. .I was a Tri-Star bum just like you were.

As for the Redtail , Connie has to play by the same set of rules as everyone else. Thinking That he doesn't, is simply preposterous.

If you didn't work there, you shouldn't make comments like that. If you did work there, you know the truth. I'm sure many of us would be surprised at the things that go on at"real airlines". No company is perfect.Wishing ill will on fellow aviators is just plain rude!

[redtail]

It’s more of a street gang than a cargo operation. Are you sure Connie is convinced the rules apply to him?

Tell you what, I’ll say nice things after YIP goes Noise Sensitive.

[polzin]

Willie runs... Didnt answer my queston, did you ??

[Willit Run]

Is this the "Peter" Pilot Polzin, who used to fly those worthless 707's with the junior Lear man.. .I was your engineer on several occasions dude!. .how many guys at Connie World lived in Idaho dude???

[polzin]

Sorry, just to Old to remember you. Did you ever refuse to get coffee for Me? Talked to Lear today . As you may know his mom died Dec. 5. Cancer . get me on the E. Ever talked to spudskier who posts here? From Idaho.

. .I still ski on straight skiis.

[Willit Run]

Geez Kenny!!!!!!!

How many hints do I need to give you!!!

Click on the little ? above my name and see who this is!, you big ole over 60 Dork!. .And yes, why the hell would I ever get you coffee, We all had to keep an eye on you so we didn't end up in Denver!

[Ignition Override]

A pilot at this company, who I have flown with twice, worked for six years as a Kallita Lear FO/Captain. Due to a shortage of extra Lear Captains, he told me that he once stayed on duty for 30 consecutive hours (without rest), in order to fly the freight to its destinations.

Another guy here (retired Air Force MAC pilot) was a DC-8 FO at Kallita and refused to upgrade to Captain, because it was not by seniority. He told me that it would not be fair to some of the other FOs with more seniority. He also said that it required all three crewmembers and a mechanic to convince ("stand up to") Connie that the elevator hydraulic pressure was inop, according to the gauge. He told me that the heavily-loaded DC-8 would have never rotated during takeoff. The guy (D) told me that his experience there was quite an eye-opener and very educational, being his first civilian pilot job.

Remember when the FAA finally "decided" that all crewmembers on reserve/standby would have a designated rest period? This happened after the Little Rock MD-80 disaster. Notice that other accidents were caused primarily by crew fatigue (Connie DC-8 at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba). Has the FAA ever changed any reg(s) after any freight pilots crashed?

If so, please post the information. If none is available, it illustrates the well-known fact that the FAA has no interest in safety, only "legalities".

[ 25 January 2002: Message edited by: Ignition Override ]</p>

[bpp1]

As I remember the DC-8 has a mechanical elevator. I know the stories to be true and several more are out there.

[Willit Run]

As a former Kalitta employee for 7 years, I can say that in the PAST, there were many incidents that made for good folklore. However, Things did change for the better, and in the end, it was a fairly respectable place to work. With that said, I have no other aviation experience than Willow Run airport, so my views may be a bit sckewed and not up to par with the rest of the world.. .As far as the seniority thing goes, we had a contract that was not based entirely on seniority as far as the upgrades went. Many folks were not ready for an upgrade and that was agreed to in the contract. So, that may or may not have been the reason for the upgrade out of seniority.

The Duty time enforcement has still not been solved, and will not for some time if history has anything to say about it. The Air Transport Association has too much pull with the congress and the FAA, and I think many more folks will have to die as a result before anything will ever be done. After the Gitmo accident, we had cart blanche to say the F word and nothing was ever said about it. that was the only good thing that came out of that incident.

Yes, the DC-8 had a totally mechanical elevator, only the ailerons and rudder were hydraulicly boosted for the flight controls.

At that time, the Lears were flown on the 135 certificate and the 135 rules a few years ago were much more lenient than the 121 rules were. As Mr. O'ride said, the FAA is more concerned with the rules than safety. The company was just using the rules to further the profit, just like every airline out there. If there were no pilot unions, these rules would be abused all the time by every airline out there.

[polzin]

Shocking, absolutely Shocking that you would speak like this about the FAA. As one Inspector told me , " The regulations are the regulations. If you want things changed , go to your union." For 5 years before he said that and 3 years after, I worked for a non-union companies.

. .Wille... Only sissys ski on hyperbolic skis.

[redtail]

"OPERATOR'S MANAGEMENT STRUCTURE AND PHILOSOPHY WERE INSUFFICIENT TO MAINTAIN VIGILANT OVERSIGHT AND CONTROL OF T HE RAPIDLY EXPANDING AIRLINE OPERATION."

<a href="http://nasdac.faa.gov/lib/vtopic.exe?action=view&ViewTemplate=fw_docview.hts&DocOffset=1&VdkVgwKey=Web_ntsb%2Fntsbweb0001.htm__%5B15133%5D&QueryZIP=%3CAnd%3E%28%3CMany%3E%27Kalitta%27%2C+%3CMany%3E%3 CPhrase%3E%28%3CMany%3E%27DOUG%27%2C+%3CWildcard%3EDC-8-*" target="_blank">http://nasdac.faa.gov/lib/vtopic.exe?action=view&ViewTemplate=fw_docview.hts&DocOffset=1&VdkVgwKey=Web_ntsb%2Fntsbweb0001.htm__%5B15133%5D&QueryZIP=%3CAnd%3E%28%3CMany%3E%27Kalitta%27%2C+%3CMany%3E%3 CPhrase%3E%28%3CMany%3E%27DOUG%27%2C+%3CWildcard%3EDC-8-*</a> %29%2C+%3CMany%3E%27Accident%27%2C+Aircraft_Make_Model+%3CCo ntains%3E+%60DOUG+DC-8-*%60%2C+Event_Type+%3CContains%3E+%60Accident%60%29&ss=1

[ 27 January 2002: Message edited by: redtail ]</p>

[Willit Run]

Polzin,

Glad you figured it out! But, really, how many days have you been skiing this year? I just got 9 days in.

As for Redtail, he deserves no further recognition!

[XCKS'r]

Redtail you must be new in this business because the list is long of supplemental airlines that played with the rules, some got caught and some didn't. CK may have been a lose cannon operation in the beginning but in the end it was a very respectable operation with a descent management team (before Kitty Hawk!!). He operated close to 100 aircraft including the 135 at the peak. He had his problems and so did the ATI's, Arrows, Fines, Zantops the list goes on, even the new kids on the block as we have recently seen aren't without their problems of staying within the painted lines. Ask any true freight dawg and the stories will be nonstop about alot of carriers "procedures" many of which were due to "incompetent management" NOT "incompetent employees". So when u recieve ur info second hand realize most stories are about 50% truth and 50% embellishment. I wish all that have returned to CK the best with safe skies and prosperity, We all know Connie is not in it for the money, "It's the Love of the Game."

[GotTheTshirt]

XCKS. .Yes that just about sums it up !!. .I have worked with all of the names on your list with certification issues and its amazing how everyone got different results from the FAA.. .What most people dont seem to realise is that there is no FAA !! There is a whole colection of FAA FSDO's that all have their own ideas.. .I have seen stuff accepted for one operator and thrown out by another region. Coupled with the increasing lack of experience and ability of FAA people, it is going to get worse.

When the NTSB makes comments like those above about lack of management ability and expanding too rapidily, where were the FAA when all this was happening !. .As the FAA man said "I'm not happy unless your not happy". <img src="cool.gif" border="0"> <img src="cool.gif" border="0">

[polzin]

I just continue to be absolutely shocked at such talk about the FAA. But then of course I was accused of being scarcaztic on the Afgan prisoner of war thread . As you can see I dont even know how to spell it. . . Recently it was announced that runway incursions declined in 2001. The head of the FAA and NTSB promptly announced that this is the direction we want to go. I took a college class in statistics and our text book was titled " How To Lie With Statistics". Think about it , why were runway incursions down in 2001 ? ( in the USA)

Note : ex - c...... c... s....r

[Diesel8]

About Connie, I only had the pleasure of being there 2 years, was on the 8. Yes, the place was not perfect, but not for lack of trying. The odd things happened, as they do everywhere, but I certainly was never pressured to fly an unsafe airplane and never felt that the intent was not to fly safe at all times. Sure, the old 50' series had seen better days, but that is to be consdered normal.

In 2 years, I had the opportunity to fly with some great guys and gals, gone to some really neat places, gained a wealth of experience. They paid me on time and never really messed with me.

I am happy that Connie is back in business and I hope he stays around for a long time.

(Now if only his dogs had not peed on my tire)

[ironbutt57]

Never worked for connie, but know him casually, never heard any real pilots say a bad word about him, old airplanes are old airplanes,good to see him back....

[fr8box]

I worked at Kalitta for 6 years and the only reason I left was because of the KittyHawk buyout. It was a great place to work. Yes, there are the stories, many of them true. However I never felt pressured or was asked to take an airplane I considered unsafe.

The paychecks were on time and after the growing pains were over, it had become a great place to work. I'd go back in a heart beat if I could.