17/01/08

[Gonzo]

Can I just say, from the Heathrow Tower Sup, to everyone; my colleagues at the time in the tower, and TC and AC, and I'm sure ATCOs in the adjoining FIRs, that you all did an amazing job yesterday. I was really proud of the way we all got it done.

Certainly made for an unforgettable birthday!

So, anyone for TRUCE next month? :}

[250 kts]

Well done to you guys too. Some of the AC sectors were a bit interesting for a while to say the least.:D

[Yellow Snow]

:ok: Gonzo

great work yesterday by all ATC and to be fair airport fire service who were on the scene within 1 min 13 seconds of the crash call being initiated. If what intial rumours are suggesting, then I take my hat off to the flight crew and would very much like to buy them a beer (that doesn't happen that often!!!;))

Afternoon shift was probably in the top 3 hardest shifts I've worked in my 7 and a bit years, it proved that mixed mode would be a crock of $hit, the two GMC's earned their money yesterday. Enjoyed a couple of beers when I got home.

Still cannot believe that everyone walked away from that aircraft. I don't believe in God, but whatever you believe in, thank it that we'd had plenty of rain in the past few weeks, as, if this had happened on a cold frosty day or dry summers day, that grass wouldn't have been able to absorb the incredible amount of energy and I think this would've been a whole different outcome!

I never thought I'd say this, but, thank £*($ I'm in the sim today:)

All the best,

YS

[Dances with Boffins]

Gonzo, you and your motley crew are to be congratulated for managing to keep the whole of Heathrow going throughout yesterday's shenannigans without the fine gentlemen of the press even noticing how unbelievably hard you must all have been working.

Happy Birthday. Next year, we'll just send a strip-o-gram instead.

I wonder if the P1 logged that one as a "landing"?

[Gingerbread Man]

Do you mind if I ask what the procedure was when yesterday 'began' Gonzo? Is it a scenario you have prepared for or do you have to improvise? The news mentioned that Heathrow had been completely closed at one point - I don't know how accurate that was, but could imagine the mess of trying to get everyone waiting to land to somewhere else.

Good show :ok:

Ginger ;)

[Gonzo]

Yellow Snow, I know we weren't the only ones working hard, and others faced more danger, but I thought the others involved were getting enough recognition elsewhere. :ok:

Strip-o-gram would be great DwB, and I guess she'll have no problems getting airside!:E

GB, there was a period where there were no departures, no arrivals and we also stopped everyone taxying around the airfield. The 'procedure' was to go through the checklist in the Emergency Folder under 'Aircraft Accident'.

As I'm writing this I'm replaying the crash in my mind......It all seems rather unreal. Reminded me of a scene from Independence Day.....

[Yellow Snow]

Gonzo, fully singing from the same hymn sheet.

I wish you drank, as I'd buy you a beer also, alas I'll get the tomato juice in;)

Got to stop slapping each other on the back now as some people in NATS are getting upset about it:ugh::ugh::ugh::ugh::ugh:

[Gingerbread Man]

The 'procedure' was to go through the checklist in the Emergency Folder under 'Aircraft Accident'.


Sorry :(

Ask a silly question...

[Gonzo]

It was by no means a silly question!.....There is a degree of improvisation...as all incidents are unique, and this one in particular had both aspects which aren't covered in our annual emergency training, and things on the standard checklist which couldn't be completed at the time with the information at hand. I didn't mean to sound flippant!

Basically there's an initial call on the airfield's crash circuit, which alerts the emergency services and the airport authority's control centre. This is usually done by the ATCO actually working the traffic...and consists of a/c type, location, problem etc. The Sup then has a few minutes to make a 'second call', with more details (callsign, company etc). Then the checklist goes on to give other agencies which need informing, and the information they each need.....Terminal Control, Area Control, AAIB etc.

[Gingerbread Man]

Cheers :ok: I just thought to a professional I might have sounded like a bit of a bonehead.


Ginger ;)

[Gonzo]

I just thought to a professional I might have sounded like a bit of a bonehead.Oh, a professional?....sorry, I thought you were asking me!:}

[Sallyann1234]

Afternoon shift was probably in the top 3 hardest shifts I've worked in my 7 and a bit years, it proved that mixed mode would be a crock of $hit.

Seems to be just as tough today.
Heard on Tower frequency this evening:
BAxx after instruction to G/A: "Just one of those nights"
Tower: "Tell me about it!"

Will the current experience cause any re-working of plans?

[ATCO Fred]

Can I just say, from the Heathrow Tower Sup, to everyone; my colleagues at the time in the tower, and TC and AC, and I'm sure ATCOs in the adjoining FIRs, that you all did an amazing job yesterday. I was really proud of the way we all got it done.

Certainly made for an unforgettable birthday!

So, anyone for TRUCE next month?

Can't wait for the power-point presentation....any plans for a tour? ;);)

[WhatUMean]

Job well done...think i'll give 777's a miss for a while though

[wigwag2]

YS Agree with you fully about difficulty of last couple of days, can't believe we managed to get back up and running so soon with TOO MUCH f@*king traffic (quelle surprise)

Have been enjoying watching those 340s and 744s getting airborne from N4 tho:ooh:

[Pontius]

I know there are many unheard voices who live in that dodgy looking tower of yours but I'd like to say a personal 'thank you' to you all for your great work following the 'incident'. I particularly think the Delivery and Ground guys did a brilliant job and, as we sat waiting for a tug and counting down the minutes until the fudging of rest hours would no longer see us with enough hours to operate our flight (we did go thanks to your expeditious work), I couldn't help but be impressed by the forebearance and smart thinking from the tower. I think the highlights for me were when the chap on Delivery put down his sheet of difficult sums and gave a huge list of start up times. A lot of work had obviously gone into that and it was great to hear the inane questions of 'where are we in the sequence' finally fall silent. I also particulary enjoyed the barely concealed incredulous laughter from Delivery when a certain carrier from the Middle East asked if there would be any delays for him :rolleyes:

Anyway, that's quite enough of praise heaping on you ground-bound types. Now get back to work and make sure I'm not delayed coming in tomorrow afternoon :)

[BDiONU]

great job guys :D If they hadn't gotten both lifts up to the tower working during the night before would the rumoured reduction in rates to 30% due to operating from the old tower have meant this flight may have been sent elsewhere?

Any truth that some new lights are being fitted as a safety feature? :}
http://www2.b3ta.com/host/creative/61345/1200695510/runway.gif

BD

[Gonzo]

Pontius, praise from a Sky-God such as yourself is praise indeed.... :ok:

BD......only a few seconds after it skidded to a halt, just as I was going to put the second call on, I had a call from tels (God knows why I answered it!) and they calmly asked me why had I turned the 27L ILS off.... :cool:

[BDiONU]

just as I was going to put the second call on, I had a call from tels (God knows why I answered it!) and they calmly asked me why had I turned the 27L ILS off.... :cool:
Good to hear they were on the ball and followed up on the alarm going off :ok:

My most amusing (cause it was all OK in the end) crash incident was at Valley. I was screening a UT who (I thought prior to this) was close to validation. Hawk was cleared to land and I was talking to the ground controller, not watching the Hawk. My UT said "Look! The wheels just come off that Hawk!" At the subsequent debrief of the UT, after a smack round the head, he was reminded that I should have heard him say that as he was talking down the crash phone!

BD

[Yellow Snow]

Pontius,

delivery has been sheer comedy over the last few days, I honestly think that some operators don't realise there's a 777 looking like it has a huge hangover, feeling very sorry for itself on 27L. The best bit was the Olympic station manager calling up, on the land line, in the midst of the chaos on Thursday to ask why his flight was being delayed:ugh::ugh::ugh::ugh:

Wig Wag 2,
I am amazed at how well 744 and 346 are getting airborne from S4/N4E, it just goes to show that full power take offs are very different from the de-rated departures they must do all the time.
The huge pi$$ take for me is why aren't the US carriers playing ball?? Every BA longhaul is taking 27L regardless of destination as they are adjusting cargo loading etc accordingly, but all the US 777 and a lot of AC767's are saying they need 27R, this is making the air positions very hard and unjustly delaying those that are playing the game nicely and accepting 27L from 4:ugh:

Good luck all

[25check]

BD - Apart from the unnecessary image I think you should check the facts in the rest of your message.....:ugh:

[BDiONU]

BD - Apart from the unnecessary image
Its called humour mate.
I think you should check the facts in the rest of your message.....:ugh:
Are you saying that both lifts at Heathrow Tower were working fine the night before? I was working at Swanwick that night (software delivery and AIRAC) and the brief was that they were out and the operation was being conducted from the old tower, a decision would be made at 0200 whether or not it was likely they could go back to the new tower. If they hadn't gone back we were briefed to expect a rate of 30%, which is what I was querying in my post.

BD

[GT3]

Got to stop slapping each other on the back now as some people in NATS are getting upset about it

Who is that YS?

[GT3]

Are you saying that both lifts at Heathrow Tower were working fine the night before? I was working at Swanwick that night (software delivery and AIRAC) and the brief was that they were out and the operation was being conducted from the old tower, a decision would be made at 0200 whether or not it was likely they could go back to the new tower. If they hadn't gone back we were briefed to expect a rate of 30%, which is what I was querying in my post.


Both lifts were out as I understand it during the night shift. Internal fixed then broke whilst this was happening with two members of staff stuck.

Did they leave the new tower during the night and run the operation from the old?

[BDiONU]

have to agree with 25check really, the image was not funny.
Horses for courses I suppose, generally in ATC we employ black humour to lighten difficult moments.
Maybe we should have a poll as to its suitability and if the nays have it I'll delete it.

BD

[BDiONU]

Both lifts were out as I understand it during the night shift.
Did they leave the new tower during the night and run the operation from the old?
Thats what we were briefed, although I wonder if they really meant the old tower or the contingency one. We were told that Health & Safety rules forbade staff using the stairs for normal work.
Thanks for the confirmation that the lifts were out.

BD

[25check]

"If they hadn't gotten both lifts up to the tower working during the night before..."

Sorry, I didn't realise BOTH lifts were working:confused:

[Monkey Madness]

I think its bloody funny - black humour indeed, but given that everyone is ok, then IMHO I think it’s perfectly alright to post it. If there had been fatalities, then it would be a different matter.

Good one BD

[NigelOnDraft]

YS.... Wig Wag 2,
I am amazed at how well 744 and 346 are getting airborne from S4/N4E, it just goes to show that full power take offs are very different from the de-rated departures they must do all the time.
The huge pi$$ take for me is why aren't the US carriers playing ball?? Every BA longhaul is taking 27L regardless of destination as they are adjusting cargo loading etc accordingly, but all the US 777 and a lot of AC767's are saying they need 27R, this is making the air positions very hard and unjustly delaying those that are playing the game nicely and accepting 27L from 4
BA can cope because we use a computer "performance" system... which is either already programmed for S/N4, or was very quickly. If the US carriers do not have the data on board, or via their company computers, they cannot go...

Whilst they get little or not delay in using 27R, and/or nobody has got onto UA/AA etc. and said you need to provided S/N4 data or you will be delayed, I doubt anything will happen....

There are plenty of outstations we got to where the local airline uses intersections we do not have data for...

HTH?

NoD

[bekolblockage]

BD......only a few seconds after it skidded to a halt, just as I was going to put the second call on, I had a call from tels (God knows why I answered it!) and they calmly asked me why had I turned the 27L ILS off....

Sorry Gonzo, I'm not quite with you there. Why would the 27L ILS have failed when it was the 09R LLZ aerial that was damaged and he stopped well clear of the GP aerial as far as I'm aware?

BDIONU - Thanks for the animation.:ok:

[Yellow Snow]

bekolblockage,

the 27L ILS didn't fail, as Gonzo says. he turned it off as per unit instructions. You don't have an ILS radiating to a closed runway!

Nigel,

cheers for the info!

GT3,

http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=309136 I may have misunderstood the tone! But it seemed negative

[Gonzo]

Errrr, no I didn't YS, you presume I had any clue as to what was going on!!!I believe the BAW38 passing very close to, or taking out, some sensors on the 09R LLZ caused the ILS to trip out.

BD.....we've not had BOTH lifts working since early December... I believe I was the last one to use the outside lift on the 7th December, when I got stuck in it for nearly four hours.The 'old tower' is the contingency now.It was unfortunate that ten minutes before BAW38 went in the remaining lift had failed again...I had just phoned TC to tell them that Heathrow might be transitioning back to the old tower contingency if it wasn't fixed. After the incident, that soon reached AC as chinese whispers that the a/c had crashed very near the tower as we were going to evacuate!

[Warped Factor]

Was wryly amused by the BMA domestic flight that pitched up at BNN this evening and said he could only hold for 10mins before diverting with delays 15 to 20mins and increasing.

Hello? Has someone missed what's been happening? Reduced flow rates all day, bit breezy, delays a bit unpredictable due to not knowing how many 27R departures there would be. Surely not a good time to arrive with minimal holding fuel with not even a flash car at stake.

Anyway, very good of the BAW pilot to immediately offer to swap places so that the BMA got in with no issues. Top bloke.

BAW 1 BMA 0.

[Gonzo]

I have to applaud BAW's efforts over the past few days. I even saw the BAW9 going off to Singapore this evenning take the 2407m 27L! And I can't remember any BA long haul a/c not being ready for departure on reaching. Fantastic work by everyone concerned.

[BIGBATMAN]

Yes well done to everyone.

Also to C watch in the in the Airfield ops unit.

The time given for the fire service was quoted as 1 min something, i arrived with the first fire unit and there was already airfield ops staff assisting with the evac, and then after that there was a runway to be re opened, many leaders to be done with the emergency services as well as leading aircraft around the unlit taxiways, also marshalling aircraft on to stands they shouldnt really go on and turning aircraft in small spaces.

So well done to the airfield ops unit for helping ATC and other important groups as well as the emergency services keeping the airport functioning,

And whos used to the well known phrase
"We have no stand guildance i dont suppose theres a marshaller about"

Cheers for now.

big

[Gonzo]

You guys are stars...thank you!:ok:

[surfingatco]

I even saw the BAW9 going off to Singapore this evenning take the 2407m 27L!

2407M! I worked a JAL B743 direct to Tokyo (quite a few years ago!) and he took 23 for departure (if memory serves me right the TODA was 2357M) - he rotated at the intersection of 27L, which, coincidentally is where a certain A300 touched down on 23 and use the taxiway to the Sierras (or whatever it's called now) as an RET! Ah! The good old days, when nostalgia was what was going to happen tomorrow.

Well done to everyone involved - and btw, the graphic had me laughing :)

[Widger]

BD...It made both Mrs Widger and I laugh. No-one killed, thank god and the 777SIM

[Yellow Snow]

BD fully agree, the graphic was funny, thank F*£k we can laugh about it as everyone walked away:)

Gonzo I stand, as always, corrected. Sir, I always presume you know whats going on, thats why I always ask you;)
I assumed you'd gone through the closed runway check list once the dust had settled! But, then I realised that 27L was never officially closed by ATC:rolleyes:

[wigwag2]

agree with Gonzo, all the leader types have done us proud these last few days (unlike certain of our managers who have been conspicuous by their absence while we kept things running- does anyone else feel like we're in some sort of social experiment where they'll keep throwing more and more s@*t at us till we all implode?)

BD, thought the graphic was rather amusing :)

[Jacko42]

Yea well done to you guys and gals up in the TWR its been a tough few days for us all. Thank god we've got all the routes back now. Couldn't stand another night of Victor,S3/N3 Leader. Hopefully a quieter night tonight.

[PPRuNe Radar]

Well done to everyone involved in dealing with the incident, as well as those who picked up all the pieces afterwards (wherever in the world that happened to be).