A320 x-wind landings

[digga]

Bit gusty in London yesterday. Landed with flap 3 - full x-wind 20ktG30 - bit of a handful!
Having talked about the pros and cons of flap 3/full with the captain in these conditions I'm still not sure what the best config in these conditions would be!

Anyone got any thoughts on this? - I'm sure it's been discussed elsewhere, but I'm really after some solid theory - appr speed, stablity of a/c, control surface effectiveness - headwind gusts as opposed to x-wind gusts etc...

cheers
dig

[Dream Land]

During m GA days it was always instilled to choose less flap, several years ago Airbus started recommending Conf 3 for gusty geographic turbulence and strong crosswind, not sure if they still recommend this but I think the the training manual just mentions "consider Conf 3".

[PHAROH]

recent Airbus Briefing Note ;

http://www.airbus.com/store/mm_repository/safety_library_items/att00007639/media_object_file_FLT_OPS-LAND-SEQ05.pdf

[Tail-take-off]

Flap 3 is recommended for A320 series when there is windshear due to the fact that the windshear recovery is TOGA, follow SRS & don't change config until clear.

Maintaining Flap 3 will obviously give better performance in the go around than flap full.

I don't know of any recommendation when it is just gusty.

[Dream Land]

My recollection was from the now cancelled AD. Link (http://rgl.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guidance_Library%5CrgAD.nsf/0/8702260E0B03FBA586256E2F004F8DA7?OpenDocument)



Airworthiness Directive

This AD has been Cancelled.
Click "Here" to go to Airworthiness Directives database and search for current AD.

Federal Register Information
Federal Register Information
[Federal Register: February 3, 2004 (Volume 69, Number 22)]

[Page 5007-5008]


Header Information
Header Information
DEPARTMENT OF TRANSPORTATION


Federal Aviation Administration


14 CFR Part 39

[Docket No. 2003-NM-257-AD; Amendment 39-13446; AD 2004-03-02]


RIN 2120-AA64

Airworthiness Directives; Airbus Model A321 Series Airplanes
PDF Copy (If Available):



Preamble Information
Preamble Information
AGENCY: Federal Aviation Administration, DOT.


ACTION: Final rule; request for comments.

SUMMARY: This amendment adopts a new airworthiness directive (AD) that is applicable to all Airbus Model A321 series airplanes. This action requires revising the Limitations section of the airplane flight manual to include an instruction to use Flap 3 for landing when performing an approach in conditions of moderate to severe icing, significant crosswind (i.e., crosswinds greater than 20 knots, gust included), or moderate to severe turbulence. This action is necessary to prevent roll oscillations during approach and landing in certain icing, crosswind, and turbulent conditions, which could result in reduced controllability of the airplane. This action is intended to address the identified unsafe condition.



DATES: Effective February 18, 2004. Comments for inclusion in the Rules Docket must be received on or before March 4, 2004.

[Hand Solo]

When I flew from a base where every landing was a crosswind landing the concensus was that Conf 3 tended to leave the aircraft a bit twitchy in roll and the reduced drag exacerbated a tendency to float when you didn't want to. Conf Full was the preferred config if windshear was not present.

[pakeha-boy]

Digga ...been flying the Bus series for the last 15 yrs......x-wind ldgs are just like anything else...its all about practice....my advice .....do flaps 3 on all your x-wind ldgs...(15kts +) and you will become very proficient indeed...also try them on light winds.....flaps 3 landings give you a different feel and data shows that the ldg distance rquired is about 5-600 ft more ,than a flaps full

..all about confidence mate...and unless you take a crack at this stuff when the oppurtunity arises,then you have missed the perfect chance.......I do them all the time and feel very comfortable....reckon thats what its all about in the end

[electricdeathjet]

Doesn't Config 3 make it a bit more likely to float during the flare as compared to Config Full? Therefore, increasing the possibility of being exposed to a gust?

[pakeha-boy]

electic jet.....yeah mate it does,but its all to do with techique....for me and only me,and I,m not trying to sound like the expert here.....but that generally occurs when your pitch attitude in the flair is too much..........(for me,)the pitch attitude in the flair is several degress lower,making for a "flatter"touchdown as opposed to a flaps full landing...

flaps 3 is a different animal......and the reason most have trouble with them is...."how often to you do them".....I do several on every trip...flaps 3 landings when configured,on profile etc...are no different than flaps full


yes.. ldg distance is more,pitch attitude different,the "feel" is different.......but so is the zero flap landing on this animal......bottom line is....if you do them on a regular basis you will get comfortable..not rocket science at all

[Springer1]

digga,

Assuming you meant you had a direct X-wind of 20ktsG30 is your max X-wind limit 30kts or greater? Curious as ours are limited to 29kts and we have to take the full gust value into consideration.

[TopBunk]

When I flew the 'bus the x-wind landing limits were 33 gusting 38 kts.

[ItsAjob]

Its now 38, gusts included

[electricdeathjet]

Since When?? Is the TO limit the same?

[Tail-take-off]

From FCOM 03.01.20 P3 (Limitations)


– Wind for takeoff and landing :

• Maximum crosswind demonstrated for takeoff . . . . . 29 knots gusting up to 38 knots*
• Maximum crosswind demonstrated for landing . . . . . 33 knots gusting up to 38 knots*

[electricdeathjet]

Yes thats what I thought....
ITS A JOB gave the impression that TOPBUNK was wrong with his posting

[Georgey]

Must be a company restriction, we also had an update of 38 gusts included on a dry braking action good rwy.

[Dream Land]

The key word being "Demonstrated".

[Arrowhead]

Depends on if its gusty. Not gusty, then no need for flap 3. F3 only makes things happen faster, and you may not be ussed to the pitch up.

If its gusty, F3 means less response to the gusts and better roll response. A321s esp used to have very poor roll response in F Full until the ELAC update about a year ago. That said, I still experience days with full sidestick into TPE.

Top tip: if not runway length limited, add a few kt to F3 approach to get a lower pitch, esp in A319.

[420]

pakeha boy,

i know that u have a lot of experience on the bus and therefore this is directed to you.

i know and fully agree that its all about the feel and testing out stuff when one gets the chance. i try my level best to do this when ever i can.

but based on performace wise...which is better. forget the fact of testing and feel and dont think in terms of right and wrong mate. which in your opinion is better and why?

or does it make a difference at all?

[FlightDetent]

If its gusty, F3 means less response to the gusts and better roll response. A321s esp used to have very poor roll response in F Full until the ELAC update about a year ago.

So is this F3 recommednation a red herring overcome by ELAC mod or not?