Skippers Aviation [Archive]

BR715

16th Jan 2008, 11:57

As far as i know things are pretty much the same that is f:mad:. One would think that while SQ is running the show they would not be moving forward as they should be but trying to fix all the f:mad: ups previous wankers and existing wankers in the company created in the first place. But that is not to say Stan has finally woken up from his long coma and actually is aware of the problems within the company and the challenges it faces in both holding onto and recruiting staff. At least he got rid of that c:mad: smoker he called himself the CEO

:)

Monopole

16th Jan 2008, 12:22

I would of thought that Stan was 'pulling the strings' all along. I would doubt that a business man such as Stan would be so naive to the happenings at Skippers.

BR715

16th Jan 2008, 12:57

Maybe not naive but didnt give a **** as he wasnt faced with it on a day to day basis (he is now though:)). As long as they were meeting their expected monthly quota, there would be no reason to worry. But now as he is supposablly running the circus down there he is forced to have a greater oversight of wats going on and hopefully make the required changes if they stand a chance against their expanding competition eg network,maromba etc

White and Fluffy

16th Jan 2008, 23:46

Just found this on their website. Has this been happening for long and does anyone know if they have had any success.

http://www.skippers.com.au/job_009.htm

lemel

17th Jan 2008, 04:10

....if they stand a chance against their expanding competition eg network,maromba etc

network yes, but i would have hardly thought that maroomba where much competition. i mean look at the fleet size between the two companies

BR715

17th Jan 2008, 11:34

True marromba may have a smaller fleet than skippers, but they operate a jet on their government contract will will allow them more options down the track to obtain additional jets on their Aoc and go for the bigger contracts so that puts then already one step in front of skippers. Also alot of experienced skippers check and training captains have migrated to maroomba which in turn has affected the training standards at skippers. Just look at recent events regarding a braz at jundee need i say more. Also a certain braz captain who went to skywest and failed his F/o on the F50 2 or 3 times only to get the boot from skywest is now back as a captain on the braz at skippers (disgrace)

So i think Maroomba is definite competition for skippers!!

:)

BR715

18th Jan 2008, 00:10

Turkee as per my pm i think that incident at jundee did have something to do with training standards and techniques especially when most of the training captains on the braz at the time of the incident bar 2 1 of whom has left hadn't even been captains that long and would have ben lucky to have 400 hrs pic on the braz. I am not having a dig at these guys just trying to point out that skippers has its self to blame by trying to screw pilots on their conditions therefore all the experienced guys will leave leaving not so experienced guys to get a quick command - sorry but thats the truth.

BAe32EP-Chief

24th Jan 2008, 21:44

BAe32EP-Chief

24th Jan 2008, 21:46

HEALY

24th Jan 2008, 23:12

BR715

The crew of that aircraft at Jundee had been trained by experienced training captains. The required annual Flight Standards training was conducted by Experienced training captains. To make a mention of the flight training experience at the time of the Jundee incident is completetly innappropriate.

Alot of companies around Australia are facing the situation of having reduced experience at all levels. This does not necessarily change the compentance levels or the amount of professionalism of the crew up front. The degree / level / amount of training a company provides does not always mean 100% success rate as Many Major Airlines have found out over recent years.

Although this may be shooting myself in the foot I can assure you that as being THE 400 hour PIC Training Captain you have associated you previous post with I take a huge amount of offense to your comments. As with all Training Captains / Line Pilots in the cockpits today I would like to think that everyone is striving to fly / train to a safe professional standard to keep everyone safe.

Although your comments hopefully are not posted with any malice rather a point about the current industry sitution I still think your assumed links are very misguided.

vee tail

25th Jan 2008, 04:27

BR17 you tool...:ugh:

Take some time and read the ATSB report.

You will find that the crew had almost 2000hrs combined on the A/C.

You will also find that nothing in their procedures would have prevenred the incident from occuring. Leave the Cand T's alone. They are very proffessional and thorough and the senior member for Training on the BRAZ is brutal and misses nothing.

Heals you shoud take offense as your products are proven every time you train one:ok:

Equatorial

25th Jan 2008, 06:51

BR715 and Healy

Your comments re: the level of experience and the situation at Skippers is spot on and the company has been very very lucky to date not to have things go wrong... Jundee could have been Australia's worst aviation accident EVER (think about that for a second) and it is well known how close they came being on a future episode of Air Crash Investigations.

Healy and V Tail sorry but his comments are sound and whether it was you or anyone else as a Training Capt, 400 hours PIC is nowhere near enough time on type to say you know your aircraft through and through - be honest. I personally know of several people that have moved from the right to the left seat in a very short time - not because they are the world's best pilots but because there literally is no one left and they meet the requirements to be PIC - plain and simple. Please prove me wrong. Surely the story of one ex Skippers Braz Captain going to ******* then returning to Skippers due to failing several line checks is proof enough that the experience levels of Captains leaves something to be desired.

There would have been a time when checkers and trainers had a couple of thousand hours on type. Sadly those days are gone; a by product of the movement available and moreso the conditions / pay at Skippers are dismal - why do you think there is hardly any experienced people there anymore???

V Tail - there is no need to call BR715 a tool - I am sure that most that read this agree with him - not because they know him or her (I don't) but because the situation there at Skippers is dire. The nearly 2000hrs combined you mentioned would have been made up (the majority of it) by the F/O's time. I take you to task with your statement about there were no procs in place to prevent said outcome - without wanting to bring it to the fore, that is false but also hindsight is a terrific thing and the crew did well to make it on the ground.

Once again Healy please don't think this is directed at you personally - I'm sure you are professional in your role but you must admit that BR715 does have a point.

What is at question here is the level and amount of experience someone can fall back on when it turns to poo - not the quality of the training received.

vee tail

25th Jan 2008, 07:40

To begin with the that were in place prior to the accident ( I dont want to open a can of worms on old stuff ) would not have prevented this incident, however now they are and that same incident will be prevented today if procedures are followed.

Is the situation at Skippers dire like you say?????
Do you work there????.

$95K (inc super I know) is that S:mad: pay for 3-4 days a week and not all that is all day.
What is experience??? is it the fact that you have X amount of hours on type and nothing that you have flown before hand counts as 'experience'.
At the end of the day an aircraft goes forward and generates lift and then climbs, What I am trying to say is just because time maybe limited on one type doesnt mean the experience level is low.

There are at present quite a few Capts on BRAZ now now with both considerable time on type and some with some time on type and a lot of other flying experience .

So to say that the fleet is lacking in experience is not true or fair to the crew and C & T's and no BR17 is not correct:ok:

Things are not all as bad at Skippers but yes they do still have some issues

Stationair8

25th Jan 2008, 08:06

Do Airnorth still send one of of their C&T guys down to help out Skippers?

kimberleyEx

25th Jan 2008, 09:07

BR715.

I think your comments are spot on.

In regard to how the Jundee accident panned out, lets just wait and see when the full ATSB report is completed before comment can be made on the crews actions.

BR715

27th Jan 2008, 09:45

Vee tail
[QUOTE]
"There are at present quite a few Capts on BRAZ now now with both considerable time on type and some with some time on type and a lot of other flying experience ."

There are also captains on the Braz/Metro in training and checked to line that have never flown a turbine, never flown multi crew and are going in as direct entry captains on high performance turboprops flying into mine sites that at times can be highly demanding both with weather and traffic. I find it hard to believe that any C and T pilots out there with any brains would think that is a good idea. Look at Skywest for example when there captains move from the F50 to the F100 they have to sit in the right hand seat for 6 months to get some experience on the jet and how they operate it before they move in to the left seat doesn't matter how many thousands of hours you have on props or total command hours . How many incidents do you see them having as a result not many!!! Skippers should take a leaf out of Skywests book or maybe they can ask the bloke who failed his check a few times and is back at skippers as a Braz captain i am sure he will tell you all about Skywest training standards lol!!!

By the way didnt CASA step in a while ago and make a few captains on the metro (employed as direct entry captains) fly as F/o's for a while to get some experience on type first for the reasons stated above.

Just because the crew may have had 2000hrs combined on the Braz does not make them experienced pilots. How much actual command time did one of the pilots have less than 300hrs i think you will find with less than 50 MEPIC so just because you have total experience on aircraft type as the F/o did that counts for **** as it is the command experience/judgment that counts when the **** hits the fan as it it did at Jundee.

Vee Tail no need to call me a tool := just telling as is see it and by the looks of it others too, are they tools??? too. You sound as if you are stuck at skippers still flying props while everyone else around you is moving on to jets try the PATS course i hear it is well worth the money!!!!

[QUOTE]
"Although this may be shooting myself in the foot I can assure you that as being THE 400 hour PIC Training Captain you have associated you previous post with I take a huge amount of offense to your comments."

HEALY wasn't directing it to you personally i don't know you and that 400 hr figure was a estimate i used to make a point and i am not doubting your flying or training skills just trying to make a point about the SYSTEM in general and how it is changing and i don't think it is for the better.:)

vee tail

27th Jan 2008, 10:10

Oh what it must be like to be so knowledgeful and presumptuous:D

Just read your other quotes of wisdom and now i understand.

Why did I bite the first time to your comments

Lefthanded_Rock_Thrower

27th Jan 2008, 12:37

BR,

I am one of those metro direct entry Captains you speak of, and you will see by my profile that you have missed the mark considerably.

4800 tt, 2300 mecom, 11 renewals, 1500+ turbine command, not my first above 5700kg, 150 multi crew before Skippers, ATPL-A for 5 years, CAR 217 ATO and C&T, flying a Metro into and out of these strips is no where near the most challenging flying to date.

Some of the others, previously :
1) LH seat of Q400 ( Ex Metro and Bras Captain, C&T )
2) B777 / 727 ( ex Metro Captain ),
3) ex-Dornier 328 pilot ( ex Metro Captain also ).

As far as comparing the progression in Skywest, what would happen if Skywest only had F100's ?.

Much the same as your first flying job, flying the C206 and looking forward to the challenge of flying the bigger and faster C210.

There are many perceptions from the past that just are not relevant anymore, for example 10 years ago a 1500-2000 hour pilot would aspire to the RH seat of a Metro, no longer, these guys are getting much faster progression, which is not a problem as long as there is good training and follow up mentoring.

I am of the same opinion as Vee Tail, the company is not without its issues, but it is not a bad place to work.

Towering Q

27th Jan 2008, 13:07

LRT....you forgot to mention Trilander endorsed.:}

Ps. Is a 210 really bigger than a 206?

Monopole

27th Jan 2008, 13:15

BR, go back to where ever you have come from. You have hijacked two threads now with the same useless axe grinding, uneducated and mindless dribble on an issue long finished here on Pprune. If you are genuinely interested in this (Jundee) topic then maybe you can do a search and add something new to that thread.

This one has gotten into such a mud slingging match that the original author of this post DC323 hasn't bothered contributing anymore :ugh::ugh::ugh:

Dog One

27th Jan 2008, 17:34

Is it true that Network are due to take delivery of 2 F100's in March? If so, they will need crews for the jets as well as the E120's. Available crews ex Perth will be pretty well stretched.

Lefthanded_Rock_Thrower

27th Jan 2008, 19:09

Towering Q,

For your information, Trilander and C337 endorsed thank you very much :}.

Stationair8

27th Jan 2008, 20:15

BR715, did you get a knock-back from Skippers at sometime?

Don't the mention the C337 time LeftHand_Rock_Thrower, he will accuse you of logging it as command twin time.

Towering Q

27th Jan 2008, 22:01

Why not?..I did....but that's another story.

BR715

28th Jan 2008, 00:23

[QUOTE]
"4800 tt, 2300 mecom, 11 renewals, 1500+ turbine command, not my first above 5700kg, 150 multi crew before Skippers, ATPL-A for 5 years, CAR 217 ATO and C&T"

And you chose to work at skippers too, lol have fun mate while these rest of us are flying jets with those sort of hours:ok:

DC323

28th Jan 2008, 00:42

okay, well I will bother to reply to this thread as it seems it has got out of hand.

I was merely asking for information relating to staff turn over (especially on the Dash 8s and if Skippers are planning to get anymore).

But for some reason this has turned into another "bitching" about Skippers thread. I applaud the efforts of the Jundee crew. Regardless of the cause, they managed to save an aircraft from disaster. If their own actions lead to it then I would agree an investigation into training techniques would need to be addressed. But there can be no disputing that they performed the role they are there for and guided a troubled aircraft back to earth safely.

I have worked for Skippers in the past, so I know that they're are great people to work with and some that are not so great. I unfortunately did not have the maturity at the time to rise above it and got bogged down in all the crap and blew a chance to be one of those straight out of flight school with ATPL subjects and a MECIR to go on to the metros as an F/O. Instead I spent a fair amount of time working the ramp. I am now working 'up north' learning that valuable experience that I have heard about and I can say with no hesitation I am a lot better for it.

I would like to return to Skippers as a pilot, but that's up to MC. As for RS, well I'll leave that topic alone. I just wanted info as I have a Dash 8 endo (and I don't want to start the whole paying for your endo thread - it was a different set of circumstances how it came about) -

vee tail

28th Jan 2008, 00:57

DC there are quite a few opportunities still although numbers have increased rapidly over the last few months.

Both dash and braz commands and right hand slots available.
As commented before there are still some issues. For those there at the moment who are content not getting caught up in banter seem to be enjoying and joking in the crew room:ok:

Lefthanded_Rock_Thrower

28th Jan 2008, 02:29

Wow, a jet pilot.......

Lifestyle and money, that is all that matters.

If someone was to pay me $100K to fly a C150 around the circuit mon-fri, 9-5, i'd die of old age in that job, and wouldn't be 60 years old, retired, divorced several times over and broke as so often happens for those chasing the dream.

PlankBlender

28th Jan 2008, 02:58

Couldn't agree more, LHRT! :D

There are quite a few of us out there who've done the travelling thing and don't want or need the job as a vehicle to go places..

Personally, living in a permanent state of jet lag just to see another bland empty crew hotel room in a hot, cold, or otherwise different country every few days really hasn't much appeal at all!

With the increasing flow rate of young GA/regional pilots to the larger airlines, there's a good chance for those regional jobs to get renumerated better.. can't wait :)

RadioSaigon

28th Jan 2008, 03:16

there's a good chance for those regional jobs to get renumerated better...

WooHoo!!! Bring it on!!! :ok:

Like a seeming minority of others in here, I too am as happy as a clam in GA -all my time is 100% hands-on, I get to interact with terrain, wx and pax as a normal part of my daily routine -all the time, the machinery (and the things I get to do with it) is interesting and varied and when the doors are closed and props turning, I own the aircraft! Can't beat it :}

Those of you who see the heavy metal as the Holy Grail, more power to your wrist. Go for it, have a helluva time on the way. Just don't forget where you started -like everyone else, and please, spare those of us that made a different choice your derision.

Continental-520

28th Jan 2008, 04:13

You know, some of you who insist on throwing mud around at others behind your anonymity (you know damn well who you are) ought to be strung up in Martin Place and spat on.

You have NO RIGHT to comment on the standards of an organisation based on ONE person's demise. I am not going to sit here and read your heartless comments and accusations towards a very good friend of mine without making you aware of some FACTS.

The fact that a Brasilia Captain to which you refer who is now working at again at Skippers is NOT by any means an automatic certification of the standards maintained there - I can assure you that he did not return due to a lack of ability or experience. Just because the training staff don't have 239857349582803948 hours on type, it does NOT render them inexperienced or ill-equipped for their role - they too have standards to meet.

Experience is, after all, not doing the same thing 1000 times, but more doing 1000 different things once.

The crew of the Jundee incident aircraft did indeed save the aircraft and the lives aboard it - as has been mentioned above. We should be thankful that they had the ability and experience to pull that off, rather than downing them and coming out with things like "Gee, it could've been the WORST EVER air accident in Australian history". Well, you know what? It wasn't. Yes, it could've been, but it wasn't.

You cannot tell me that a crew with a cumulative experience of 40,000hours would have done any better. The reality is, the outcome would have been the same - everyone walked off that Brasilia without a scratch on them, and the aircraft is back in service.

Please try and keep your personal attacks out of this - it is unneccessarily demoralising to the abilities and experience of those you are talking about.

520.

Stationair8

28th Jan 2008, 04:25

Attention everyone BR715-Is a Jet PIlot.

Stationair8

28th Jan 2008, 05:16

Imagine been stuck in a jet cockpit with BR715 for your working day!
Whats Lifelines number again?

More likely he got rejected by a Skippers FA!

vee tail

28th Jan 2008, 06:01

There are no male F/A's at skippers.

Conntinental thanks for the support and yes there are many diverse levels of experience at the moment:ok:
if everyone doesnt mind can we now please leave JUN alone!!!

I think we need to catch the refueller again or something positve:E

Jedi

28th Jan 2008, 07:25

Or maybe Kiwi chick, can let us konw what shes been upto lately... always eager to read her posts!!:E

BR715

28th Jan 2008, 07:43

[QUOTE]
"You cannot tell me that a crew with a cumulative experience of 40,000hours would have done any better"

Maybe but they may have checked that the fuel was within 3% and not ran out of ****in fuel you tosser!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

lol all you clowns take the bait i love it thanks for for giving me good laugh lol lol

Continental-520

28th Jan 2008, 08:47

You make your point, randomly and unwarrantingly making frivolous claims in doing so.

So, others try and offer a different point of view to it, and attempt to induce some factual information and logic to the thread, and the response comes:

lol all you clowns take the bait i love it thanks for for giving me good laugh lol lol

Hardly the hallmark of a logical argument, mate. But you've already made it clear that logic is not a language of yours, so you just keep telling yourself that.

Incidentally, I'll have you know that the crew were following their SOPs that day in reference to fuel quantity measurement, which has been confirmed in the investigation, and are not responsible for any deficiencies that lie/lay within those.

Feel free to resume the debate at a civil, structured and factual level when you develop the maturity to do so.

I think we need to catch the refueller again or something positve

Scarred for life after that morning!! :cool: Dunno if that guy still makes it a habit, but might be worth thinking twice before you touch the fuel receipt.... (!)

520.

the wizard of auz

28th Jan 2008, 09:28

Towering Q,

For your information, Trilander and C337 endorsed thank you very much

Woohoo...........I'm qualified for Skippers............where do I sign??.
Ah, bugger it, I don't think I'll bother.......everybody I know in aviation works there now....(except the couple who used to but progressed further).
Might be a tad crowded there.

vee tail

28th Jan 2008, 09:35

Wiz never to crowded for a man of your structure .

But do you have experience, ask BR he will tel you:E

I dont think you will fit in coz there is no ciggy machine:{

Lefthanded_Rock_Thrower

28th Jan 2008, 10:06

I think the refueller and Wiz will have a fair bit in common, they'll probably hang out together :}.

the wizard of auz

29th Jan 2008, 07:51

HHHMMMMMM........OK, seems my reply was moderated. maybe they hang out with the refueler as well.

bluefour

29th Jan 2008, 10:33

BR715, I knew you when you where at skippers and you thought your s**t did'nt stink back then. I have noticed something of late though, your waist line has doubled in size since you landed your jet job, now your swollen head looks small compaired to that 120kg frame your pulling around, and that's not the only thing your pulling. for f**k sake let people fly what they what to fly, not everyone is as judgemental as you, you fat tool.

Towering Q

29th Jan 2008, 12:13

Wow, this just gets better by the minute.

QFcaptain

29th Jan 2008, 14:05

Wow BR715, Jani is that you, you grumpy old greek?You haven't changed a bit mate, hows things up north?It sounds like your expressing your frustration on the poor ppruners.Things not improved up there?Atleast the new twins finally came in after 2years!I ran into marc a few months ago so he spilled the beans.He had just applied to QF then, seems like he's come to his senses.What about you?BEEN TOO LONG MATE!!give us a ring if you still got my number, it hasn't changed.You really haven't changed a tiny bit :ok:

Richardperth2002

26th Feb 2012, 11:46

We are having real problems with our aircraft last Tuesday we had a serious machincal problem with our air craft when depressurization caught us out and had to take the air craft to a lower altitude.
Any one else been having problems with the maintenance issues and last week going into karara we had trouble with landing gear not locking in. :ugh::rolleyes:

I feel aircraft maintenance is lacking on the fi&fo aircraft going to these remote mine sites causes a slot of damage to aircrafts.what I saw on one airstrip was a massive oil spill on the aprean of the airstrip and they did have the brains to clean up the oil spill after they finished working on the aircraft, I thought it would be good practice to clean up the mess what's your feels on this.

Looking to changing company:D