Fastrack Requirements @ EK

[Muffetology]

Hi,

Could someone enlighten me as to the Fastrack requirements at EK again?

I'm clear about the fastrack being offered only if there are no existing FO's with 3 yrs service ahead in line.

However, I'm a little hazy about the 55ton jet hourly requirements. Are these hours Command or FO hours? All my hours (7k plus) are RHS, and all above 55tons.

Thanks.

[PositiveRate876]

Command 55t+

[White Knight]

Simple - no command time = no fast track..

[jedy]

I can´t understand. Where can I see the requirement for a fast track command minimums on their web page . I can´t see anything.

[QCM]

Talked the other day with a Pakistanese F/O,been about 10 years on the right seat with PIA,couldn't expect command for the next 10 years!:eek::eek:
So,guys,consider that about 3 years to upgrade at EK IS a fast track,isn'it? :) :ok:

[XIVIL4DEP]

As far as I can see, they don't publish the FastTrack requirements on the website. But my friends at EK tell me that people have fasttracked to the LHS in 18 months, but no guarantees there !!

[Jolly Foreigner]

Acccelerated Command is only considered in circumstances where there is an unavailability of eligible First Officers. Accelerated Command criteria is:

1. Minimum of 8000hrs total time prior to joining EK,
2. Minimum of 4000hrs hard time (P1 or P2 on jet or turboprop with MTOW of
10,000kg or more),
3. Possession of a valid UAE ATPL,
4. Minimum of 2000hrs commercial transport jet command experience on
aircraft with MTOW greater than 55 tonnes, within 12 months before
joining EK and holding a valid type rating,
5. Successful completion on the first attempt of all EK PPC's,
6. Minimum 18 months service in EK,
7. Minimum 12 months on type (from date of initial line training),
8. Minimum 1000hrs on type in EK,


Hope this helps:ok:

[Asianlonghaul]

Jolly Foreigner (http://www.pprune.org/forums/member.php?u=68378) I understand the same except 1,000 PIC above 55 Tons required for fast track. I guess this may come down to 500 PIC as the supply drys up, which it is doing fast! Or maybe 1,000 jet PIC of a lesser weight.

[jedy]

8000 hours total
4000 hours jet above 55 Tons
2000 hours PIC above 55 Tons

I think those are the requirements for a direct entry command (as per web page)

So I guess nobody knows the criteria for a fast track upgrade.

:eek: :eek:

[av8r76]

4. Minimum of 2000hrs commercial transport jet command experience on
aircraft with MTOW greater than 55 tonnes, within 12 months before
joining EK and holding a valid type rating,

Someone care to elaborate on this point. 2000hrs in preceding 12 months looks a little steep if not downright illegal.:=

[AA717driver]

Re: "2000 hours in preceding year" They're just looking for hard workers... ;)

Looks like 3+ years if I try to make the move. TC

[Jolly Foreigner]

Guys, from my previous post with the requirements. These are what are stated in the EK Ops Manual under 'minimum experience for accelerated command.'

For direct entry command the requirements are:
1. Minimum 10,000hrs total prior to joining EK,
2. Minimum 4,000hrs hard time,
3. Minimum 3,000hrs command time, on type or commercial aircraft with
MTOW greater than 55 tonnes, within 12 months before joining EK and
hold a valid type rating,
4. Preference will be given to type rated and instructors.

Hope this clears up any misunderstandings between the requirements for the different positions.

[useless]

from http://www.emiratesgroupcareers.com/ :

Requirements for Position of Direct Entry Captain

A minimum of 8,000 hours total flying time
A minimum of 3,000 hours in command of multi-crew, multi-engine jet aircraft in excess of 55 tonnes MTOW
4,000 hours flown in multi-crew, multi-engine jet or turbo prop aircraft with MTOW of 10 tonnes or more, as P1 or P2
Preference will be given to candidates with Boeing EFIS experience who will be eligible to undertake a short transition course
Must be a current Captain
First Officers, qualified as Cruise Captains, do not meet the Direct Entry Captain requirements
ICAO ATPL
English language fluency (written and verbal comprehension)

[boeingbusbenn]

I'm working in the US right now, but we're making backup plans in case things take a (further) downturn here. What would probably happen to me if I was hired at EK with the following:
11,000hrs total
1200 PIC/2000SIC A318/319/320 (all 55+ tonnes)
260PIC MD-80 (all 55+ tonnes)
2000 PIC/3000SIC B737-200/300 (the PIC is all in 737-200 53.3tonnes)
The only international is U.S. to Canada and Mexico.

I've heard that for DEC, you actually start as SIC and then the upgrade is contingent upon performance. If so, what is the pay until you upgrade?

Any recommendations for attending the EK SFO "roadshow"?

[AA717driver]

Boeingbus--I was told that anything DC-9-30 sized and above (108,000 lbs. MTOW) counts. TC

[Tears for Fears]

maybe my question is useless nowadays but I hope that no more accelerated command are on process in Ek.
I will join Ek soon but have been told that time to command is 4/5 years considering that some DEC are joining every year.
So my question is: DEC + ACCELERATED COMMAND = HOW MANY YEARS FOR A NEW POOR F/O ? :ugh:

[5star]

Anywhere between 3 and 5 years. Serious!
Come with NO expectations because you will get screwed on the way. Even the guys in Recruitment don't know what the policy is with regards to DECs. Serious!
So be prepared to bend over.
Thats the way it is...

[a345xxx]

If I were to join UAL or NW or BA or USAirways or Qantas I would have to get in line and wait my turn regardless if I had 1000hrs on a Piper Warrior or 25000hrs PIC on the Concorde so why can't you guys come over here and wait in line?:=

[mensaboy]

Of course guys are interested in coming to EK and jumping the queue. It is not THEIR fault that some idiotic policies are in place.


According to EK's own policy;
1st-Suitable F/O's (an abundance of whom exist)
2nd-Suitable 'accelerated command' types.
3rd-DEC's.

The fact that EK does not follow its own policy should be a clear indication that it is a risk. The best advice I have heard is to expect the worst and be happy if it turns out better.

I do not understand the subterfuge of this company when it comes to upgrades. I think most pilots would be happy to envision a 3-4 year upgrade. The DEC policy is purportedly 'a cost saver', but I contest that assertion.

Consider the recruiting issues because many decent F/O's get scared off by the confusion and inconsistencies of the policy; consider the past resignations caused by the policy; consider the morale issues; consider the higher costs associated with a DEC; and then counter all of that with the initial savings in training. Unfortunately, the only cost that can be put down on paper is the training cost, so therefore the company believes they are saving money. Clearly hiring a DEC costs less INITIALLY. It is one training course vs two, as opposed to following a normal career progression. Accelerated commands on the other hand do not save in training costs.

Just consider the confusion surrounding this accelerated command thread. The company purposely encourages this confusion because they want to be left with the option to do whatever they wish if they think it can save them some money.

EK is a good company in general. I truly believe it is one of the best in the world, all things considered. The manner in which the DEC and accelerated command policies are conducted is one huge negative about EK though.
If 'time to command' is your overriding concern, then be very clear... there are no guarantees. 4 years to command would seem to me to be a reasonable expectation for the foreseeable future.

[myradios]

Are DECs a significant hinderance to command upgrades? How many are being employed?

[Wiley]

myradios, seriously Dig, take a look at what you've just written. Take a moment to gestate it and then (God, I hope you'll be able to) answer your own question.

Can I posit this question to you in the hope it might clarify my point?

- "If I'm hoping to get a seat with a subload ticket on a heavily booked flight, will someone ariving at the staff travel desk well after me, but with a higher priority ticket, lessen my chances of getting on the flight?"

[Alconguin Crusader]

Accelreration command criteria is not published because the company does not want to publish it because then they can be held accountable. Sometime ago they totally disregrarded their own published criteria and some 22 pilots with previous command time from some really respected airlines from around the world (3rd) jumped pilots waiting over three years for upgrade.
Again EK does what is wants to do and has no respect for the pilot group. Buyer beware

[myradios]

I'm not supporting the program, just asking how much of an effect it has on upgrades- one place a month, ten??

[mensaboy]

MyRadios,
It is probably better to put it in terms of 'time' delay. Hazarding a guess here, I would estimate the DEC policy has resulted in an average of 3-6 month delay for waiting F/O's over the last 5 years.
Feel free to correct me on that one. It is just a guess partly because the DEC policy is such a tightly guarded secret around here, for obvious reasons.

[myradios]

mensaboy

Thanks, that's the answer I was after.....

[puff m'call]

Accelerated commands are stopped, that's the answer.

[atiuta]

Don't you mean commands have stopped period?

[Tears for Fears]

So accelerated command HAS stopped
DEC has stopped
Command Courses have st
Aircrafts are not comming or even going back (A380)
A f/o joining now will wait 4/6 years to command, at least

My index is now bending to the "NO JOIN" scale.
Tks guy for all the infos.

[skyvan]

Oh what twaddle!

Command courses are still on, I have a friend on a A330 course right now.

The A380 is not going back, it is back on the schedule from Friday.

The B777s that are delayed will be delivered as soon as the galleys are manufactured and installed. There are some at the factory waiting for the galleys only, which will not be affected by the Boeing strike, when the galleys are ready.

I don't know about the Accelerated Command, but there are stacks of guys with 3 years service, and stacks of guys suitable for accelerated command. Which way the managers will jump is anyones guess.

Considering the state of the industry at the moment, EK is one of the brighter places to be.

[EK Snorkel]

The DEC program has not been stopped, it is ongoing with new joiners at this very moment (777 DEC's).

5-6 years to command for new joiners is about right....if lucky

Snorki

[Greensky]

For those interested, 16 DEC's were hired this calendar year so far. This is out of a total recruitment of just over 300. So about 5% joining are DEC's.
Accelerated program is well and truly alive. Fortunately (or unfortunately depending how you look at it), as someone mentioned, there are tons of guys above the 3 year mark or coming up to it over the coming months so strict seniority should prevail on the respective fleets. The 777 guys are now planned to start their upgrade at around 3 years 2 months.This time frame will increase I'm sure in the coming months/year. The Bus guys are still significantly behind in the 'time to upgrade' department with guys currently upgrading around the 4 year 3 month mark.This should improve in the coming year though.
I have to agree though however that a new joiner today will be looking at over 4 years to command. Still good i would say in the grand scheme of things.

Green..out :8

[Sand dune Sam]

I'm sure theres many legends in the right seat that deserve a command now.....................:E

[5star]

Greensky,

Your numbers are correct.
One correction though : upgrade time is now 3 years and 5 months. It will increase as we write. At the same time they are delaying upgrades, DECs get in...
Shows you how good they are at obeying their own rules. At the same time they tollerate NO deviation from us. Training not to blame, HR not to blame. I guess it must be our dear English friend from BA....

[BigGeordie]

They don't deserve a command, nobody does, but they do deserve the chance of a command course to demonstrate that they are ready for and capable of having a command.

[Sand dune Sam]

it was said tongue in cheek Geordie..lighten up.

[Boeing 787]

Is Emirates presently using (or intend using in the future given the aircraft on order) the accelerated command programme for upgrading high time F/O's to Captains?

Thanks

[Patty747400]

In addition to what have been mentioned earlier in this thread a DEC needs at least 1500 hours command on 777 or 330/340. Any one has any idea how they have been able to find 16 guys with these qualifications that are ready to move to the desert? They must have had a decent position in another airline to accumulate the experience so it's a bit strange. Unless it is the guys from SQ that didn't get their contract renewed last year...

Someone's flown with any of them or is it just a rumour?

[Instant Hooligan]

Patty according to the seniority list the most junior capt here was hired in Nov 08. This could of been a DEC or a fast track but unless the 16 you talk of haven't joined us yet, all new hires since Nov 08 have been F\O's

[Boeing 787]

IH,

So is fastrack still being used?

Thanks

[Wizofoz]

IH,

So is fastrack still being used?

Thanks



At this point, no.