FAA ppl exclusively in UK (or EU)

[Sam Rutherford]

Sorry, I'm in a questions mood today!

Does anyone know a school that can do FAA ppl courses/conversions etc. in the UK or elsewhere in Europe?

I want to see if I can convert my JAA to an FAA standalone without having to go to the US!

Thanks, Sam.

[julian_storey]

It IS possible to do it here.

There are plenty of AME's here who can do you an FAA medical. I can put you in touch with several FAA instructors, you can do your FAA PPL written at Flight Safety in Farnborough and there is an FAA examiner in the UK who can do your check ride.

But you know what, in the US you can get an FAA medical for $60 (about £30 - so roughly a quarter of what it would cost you here), you can sit the written for $90 (about £45 - so about a third of what it would cost you here) and out there you can rent a Cessna 172 for your training for about £40 an hour.

The FAA PPL flight test includes a few things which you may not have seen before. They're not hard - but take a little practice and probably at least five hours in an aeroplane, depending on your level of experience.

The money that you would save by doing it over there will almost certainly cover most of the costs of getting there, so you can get a week in the Florida / Arizona sunshine for no extra cost. Plus if you've not flown in the States before, you will also discover the absolute joy that flying there can be :D

[Sam Rutherford]

With you on all of that, but you left out the bit about visas, tsa, etc. etc.

As far as I know, though, some of these are still applicable even if your training does not take place in the US - anyone know the details?

Sam.

[moonym20]

i can toss my hat in the ring here

FAA stuff in the UK i can reccomend Soloflight based at humerside, i have had experiance with them on FAA groundschool stuff and highly reccomend them :ok: Mel is a fountain of knowlage when it comes to FAA land :)

http://www.soloflight.co.uk/

Flightsafety are also good but i would expect to pay more the service

as for medical, the AME I used was Dr Hudson from Grasmere Medical Servies :ok: he is based at Goostrey nr. Manchester, very friendly and thorough service

http://www.grasmere-medical-services.co.uk/

good luck with it all

[gcolyer]

You still have to jump through the TSA hoops to do FAA training in the UK.

At the end of the day the VISA/TSA/SEVIS hoops are not hard or expensive to jump through. The worst part is taking a day off work to go to the US embassy.

It wont cost you more than £200 to do. Other costs are about £600 return flight to the sates and another £500 for food and lodging, so thats £1300 to go to the sates to do the training. How much of a saving is it to do this?

I done my JAR PPL in the states and it saved me a good £2000 if not more.

[julian_storey]

Yes.

You are supposed to have TSA approval before undertaking any training for an FAA certificate or rating. So this would apply even in the UK.

The visa only applies if you are actually going to the US for your training.

You don't need either of these if you already have an FAA licence and just to go to the US to rent an aeroplane. You also don't need either of these to do your BFR over there.

[IO540]

I am afraid a big point is being missed.

You can do all training towards any FAA license or rating outside the USA.

The TSA stuff indeed applies but it relevant only to training done by an FAA instructor. But you don't need an FAA instructor!!! Any instructor authorised (locally) to do the instruction is acceptable to the FAA.

So, you can reach the required standard and collect all the required logbook entries right here in the UK, in a G-reg, with a normal JAA instructor. TSA doesn't apply at all, because who says the training is towards anything whatsoever to do with the FAA? You could be training towards a Mongolian ATPL, for all anybody can tell.

The medical is a non issue too.

The written is doable in various places; Farnborough seems popular right now.

The real fun bit is the UK based checkride. I am going to say very little on this, almost nothing in fact, because there have been some recent changes which have complicated matters considerably. When I did my FAA CPL in 2007 that was about the last time that FAA examiners were coming over to the UK freely.

[kwachon]

IO540, You are a little in error regarding instructors who can teach the FAA course in UK or Europe. There are numerous endorsments required to be given during the training, first solo, cross country etc., these may only be given by an FAA instructor as he has to give his FAA license and CFI number.

Title 14: Aeronautics and Space
PART 61—CERTIFICATION: PILOTS, FLIGHT INSTRUCTORS, AND GROUND INSTRUCTORS (http://ecfr.gpoaccess.gov/cgi/t/text/text-idx?c=ecfr;sid=9dd1e0351ee4ca3ead52c6cefef6b7ac;rgn=div5;vie w=text;node=14%3A2.0.1.1.2;idno=14;cc=ecfr)
Subpart A—General (http://ecfr.gpoaccess.gov/cgi/t/text/text-idx?c=ecfr;sid=9dd1e0351ee4ca3ead52c6cefef6b7ac;rgn=div6;vie w=text;node=14%3A2.0.1.1.2.1;idno=14;cc=ecfr)


Browse Previous (http://ecfr.gpoaccess.gov/cgi/t/text/text-idx?c=ecfr;sid=9dd1e0351ee4ca3ead52c6cefef6b7ac;rgn=div8;vie w=text;node=14%3A2.0.1.1.2.1.1.24;idno=14;cc=ecfr) | Browse Next (http://ecfr.gpoaccess.gov/cgi/t/text/text-idx?c=ecfr;sid=9dd1e0351ee4ca3ead52c6cefef6b7ac;rgn=div8;vie w=text;node=14%3A2.0.1.1.2.1.1.26;idno=14;cc=ecfr)
§ 61.41 Flight training received from flight instructors not certificated by the FAA.

(a) A person may credit flight training toward the requirements of a pilot certificate or rating issued under this part, if that person received the training from:
(1) A flight instructor of an Armed Force in a program for training military pilots of either—
(i) The United States; or
(ii) A foreign contracting State to the Convention on International Civil Aviation.
(2) A flight instructor who is authorized to give such training by the licensing authority of a foreign contracting State to the Convention on International Civil Aviation, and the flight training is given outside the United States.
(b) A flight instructor described in paragraph (a) of this section is only authorized to give endorsements to show training given.

[IO540]

Kwachon - almost right.

You have to get a signoff from an FAA instructor saying you meet the requirements and you are ready for the checkride.

In practice, no FAA instructor will do this signoff unless he has flown with you.

You also need 3hrs training in the 60 days preceeding the checkride.

The practical upshot is that the FAA instructor mentioned above usually also does the above mentioned 3 hours - or as long as it takes for him to be happy you will pass.

This last little bit of flying is therefore done by an FAA instructor, and he needs to be registered with the TSA. Not a big deal - plenty of European based FAA CFI/CFIIs are TSA registered.

But this does not mean your whole training needs to be done with an FAA CFI/CFII. Just the very last bit.

This is the normal procedure, followed by thousands of European pilots over the years.

[gcolyer]

Sorry, I'm in a questions mood today!

Does anyone know a school that can do FAA ppl courses/conversions etc. in the UK or elsewhere in Europe?

I want to see if I can convert my JAA to an FAA standalone without having to go to the US!

Thanks, Sam.


The original post stated that he wants to convert his JAA license to a Standalone FAA license.

This will still require TSA hoop jumping in the UK or the full VISA/TSA/SEVIS hoop to jump through in the US.

[gcolyer]

Ok ok......

Either way if he wants a standalone FAA license he will need at least TSA clearence, even if he already has a piggyback license.

[AC-DC]

Ok then, one question from me.
I have a CAA (life) PPL and a FAA that was issued on the back of the CAA PPL. I have decided that I want to have a FAA stand alone PPL, don’t ask me why.

I got the books and started to read, then I came across the following:

“As stated in 14 CFR 61.63, an applicant need not take an additional knowledge test provided the applicants holds an airplane, rotorcraft, powered-lift, or airship rating at that pilot certificate level. For example…, an applicant transitioning from airplanes to gliders, or airplanes to helicopters, or airplanes to weight-shift or powered parachute will not be required to take the test”

Do I need to take the test?
What is CFR?

Thanks

[gcolyer]

A CAA Life PPL...we will see about that when EASA have finished their crusade:eek:

[selfin]

AC-DC, yes. The knowledge test is defined at §61.1(b) as the aeronautical knowledge areas required for an airman certificate or rating (that can be administered in written form or by a computer). The aeronautical knowledge areas, §61.105(b), overlap to a large extent with the equivalent required under either the UK CAA or the JAR-FCL syllabi, but cover topics a non-US PPL holder is not expected to know (e.g. US airspace rules). Therefore the knowledge test is required.

As for §61.63 (additional aircraft ratings), you do not yet hold an FAA aircraft rating (unless you wish to argue otherwise on the basis of having a §61.75 "piggyback" private certificate and associated "piggyback" SEP rating) and therefore this section is not yet applicable to your circumstances.

When you have obtained a §61.103 ("standalone") private certificate you may be desirous of acquiring a MEP rating. In this case §61.63(c)(5) exempts you from repeating the requirements at §61.105(b) for reasons which should be obvious.

Curiously under 14 CFR 61.75(b)(3) an applicant for a U.S. private pilot certificate based on a foreign pilot license [the so-called "piggyback PPL"] must not (at the time of making the application) hold a U.S. pilot certificate. There is therefore no rule, so far as I am aware, preventing you from retaining the 'piggyback private' in conjunction with a 'standalone private.' This is a small detail and I welcome feedback from anyone more versed in these regulations.

[AC-DC]

Thank you 'Selfin'.
It was a good try though.:) In any case it is good to revise all the PPL subjects. It all started during the bi annual, we did the FAA PPL flight manoeuvres and I wanted more (as it was great fun) so the instructor suggested the stand alone PPL.

What is CFR?

thanks

[Orbifly]

Orbifly is an FAA school based in Europe :-)

But we are specialized in CPL and IFR trainings, and ATPL trainings upon request, we make very few PPL trainings.

Alexandra
ORBIFLY
www.orbifly.com (http://www.orbifly.com)

[EvilKitty]

CFR

Code of Federal Regulations (http://www.gpoaccess.gov/cfr/index.html)

[selfin]

AC-DC, The FAA has provided a set of Airmen Knowledge Test Questions (http://www.faa.gov/education_research/testing/airmen/test_questions/) for your benefit. As you presumably completed a BFR immediately following the §61.75 process you'll be vaguely au fait with the US airspace rules.

In addition §61.39(c)(1) (http://ecfr.gpoaccess.gov/cgi/t/text/text-idx?c=ecfr&sid=18e95737726731abc06dada607886147&rgn=div5&view=text&node=14:2.0.1.1.2&idno=14#14:2.0.1.1.2.1.1.24) will interest you.

[AC-DC]

In addition §61.39(c)(1) will interest you.

Selfin
Thank you, It worth trying I think.

Also thanks to Evillkity

Orbifly
Years ago I looked into CPL and IR, I did all written but then decided that I am not interested.I enjoy low flying and as I fly for fun 'Being there' is not so important. I tured large parts of Europe on VFR but I have to admit that more than once weather was an issue (as I try to remain legal). The IMC helps to cross local weather but is not perfect, maybe another time.