Thinking of flying light aircraft when you retire?

[llanfairpg]

You may be concerned to know that the IMC rating may be about to dissapear due to our Eurocratic friends and *apparently even BALPA want to see it go.

* apparently--- quote on the thread

There is a Downing Street petition, link is below, your support is needed.

details of the proposals here

http://www.*****************/default.asp?sourceid=&smenu=81&twindow=&mad=&sdetail=283&wpage=1&skeyword=&sidate=&ccat=&ccatm=&restate=&restatus=&reoption=&retype=&repmin=&repmax=&rebed=&rebath=&subname=&pform=&sc=2209&hn=ftnonline&he=.co.uk

SIGN THE PETITION AT

http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/IMC-Rating/

[Sleeve Wing]

Llanfairpg.

> *apparently even BALPA want to see it go. <

This is something I hadn't heard. Pls tell more.

What the hell's it got to do with BALPA anyway ?? :ugh:

[manrow]

Maybe BALPA are consulted as representing a large group of pilots.

Is there another?

[ab33t]

The fear I have is that we UK pilots will be in the minority comapred to the rest of JAA world .

[Contacttower]

*apparently even BALPA want to see it go.



Well maybe, but to be fair I doubt many of its members actually want the IMC rating gone. The suggestion that BALPA are against it comes from BALPA (amongst many other organisations) being represented by the European Cockpit Association, who do want the IMC rating gone.

[A Very Civil Pilot]

Maybe BALPA are consulted as representing a large group of pilots.

Is there another?

AOPA?

From what I read of the demise of the IMC, EASA seems quite keen on a PPL IR (it is referred to as an 'IR lite' in the trade mags). If there is any sense to it, it will probably be an IMC rating in all but name.

[llanfairpg]

Llanfairpg.

> *apparently even BALPA want to see it go. <

This is something I hadn't heard. Pls tell more.

What the hell's it got to do with BALPA anyway ??I suggested on the 'private flying' forum that some publicity for retaining the rating may be gained by approaching BALPA and getting something in 'The Log' as I know many want to fly light aircraft in retirement. The response was," well BALPA wont support retaining it anyway", but you would need to read all the posts and wade through the insults and point scoring etc..

PS anyone know what you need to do to convert a multi crew IR to single crew if your initial was single crew? I assume my single crew IR is invalid after 20 years!

[Stampe]

Providing your initial instrument rating was single pilot you can renew to single pilot validity provided your instrument rating (even if previously revalidated as multi pilot) has not expired by more than five years.Holders of UK CPL and ATPL have the priveleges of an IMC permanently embedded within that licence.The IMC priveleges are not embedded within a JAR licence issued by the UK CAA and a IMC rating must be added and the priveleges renewed by test every 25 months.VBR Stampe

[Scottishjockey]

Gosh there must be so many ATPL's wishing they had an IMC rating!!! I did an IMC and still don't quite know why I fly in the clag to glasgow when a rather more qualified chap or chapette can get me there for the price of a 30 minute trial flight!

[Stampe]

I think you,d be surprised how many UK Atpl holders value the embedded IMC priveleges in their licence.My employer will only pay to renew JAR licences
(to facilitate flying european registered airframes owned by group airlines).Many pilots have paid additionally to renew Uk licences to retain the automatic IMC priveleges.This saves the annual inconvenience and expense of single crew IR renewal whilst the privileges are adequate for the sort of SEP leisure and instructional flying I conduct within the Uk.

[shortstripper]

But Stampe,

What happens when our dear old UK PPL A is taken away from us? Will UK CPL's and ATPL's go the same way? If they do, will they be replaced with EASA ones? and will PPL and CPL loose their Grandfather rights?

SS

[Stampe]

I think it virtually inevitable that the UK national CPL and ATPL licences will disappear and with them the embedded IMC priveleges.Then sadly people like me will be rushing to renew their single pilot IR on their remaining JAR/EASA licence.I,ve kept my lifetime PPL running all these years ready for retirement...but the bureaucrats get their way in the end.

[llanfairpg]

Gosh there must be so many ATPL's wishing they had an IMC rating!!! I did an IMC and still don't quite know why I fly in the clag to glasgow when a rather more qualified chap or chapette can get me there for the price of a 30 minute trial flight!I think you are missing the point here and it dosnt help that this thread was moved from the Flight Deck Forum. A lot of pilots in retirement wish to fly light aircraft and will not want to be prevented from flying IFR because they do not have an IR or IMC rating. It has always been cheaper and more convenient to renew an IMC rating than an IR rating. The purpose of the thread is to encourage more people to sign the petition not to discuss the price or air tickets to Glasgow.

Even without considering the loss of this rating and on a point of principle, why should yet another part of our country be taken away by Eurocrats? The new motorcycle test(september 2008) is already going to cost the Britsh tax payer around 100 million pounds because of new EU legislation and for what, just so a the emergency stop can be carried out at 30 mph instead of 20mph and an off road swerve test and riding around cones. Of course there will be a massive increase in motorcycle safety because of these amazing new rules from Europe which do not address the two main cause of motorcycle fatalties, road junctions and bends.

[FAStoat]

Yes, your are correct,if your single IR was not renewed in the last 5 years,you can not renew it with a multi engine IR in the Sim(Level2 Airliners and below),but have to go back to CAFU.For those not on Airbus or the latest Heavy Metal,certain 737 sims and 146 etc,provided the TRE/TRI has a Single IR valid,his authority will be able to renew a Single IR for the Airline Pilot Candidate.The tremors of arriving at Stand32 CAFU Stansted,must still hold dread for those old enough to remember it.Happily the scourges of the time must have retired-A dreadful woman ,a failed Airline Pilot,became such and used to suddenly invade the sanctity of the Sim ,as the Spanish Inquisition,and prompty fail the entire crew together with examiner,without having the slightest notion of what what going on at the time!!!!!The thought of meeting the likes of her,having retired ,in order to renew said rating,would promptly ground me!!Even the shiny boots and immaculate Navbag of the boys in light blue,seem preferable to the thought of CAFU again. I bet there are loads of senior Captains, who have flown their families and friends in IFR with light twins or singles, totally ignorant of the nasty little piece of CAA rules that prohibit us from doing just that ,without the Single Pilot IR.Having had X number of years of experience doing just that-WHY IS IT NECCESSARY?

[llanfairpg]

The tremors of arriving at Stand32 CAFU Stansted,must still hold dread for those old enough to remember it.Happily the scourges of the time must have retired-A dreadful woman ,a failed Airline Pilot,became such and used to suddenly invade the sanctity of the Sim ,as the Spanish Inquisition,and prompty fail the entire crew together with examiner,without having the slightest notion of what what going on at the time!!!!!The thought of meeting the likes of her,having retired ,in order to renew said rating,would promptly ground me!Ah I remember it well and said woman who was actaully on my CPL course at Cass(no one liked here there either).

I remember sitting on stand 32 in an Apache at night trying to start it (I had never started it in the dark) after 3 failed attempts and unable to stop my hands shaking Captain Gunn leant over and said. "I think it will start better if you turn the magnetos on!"


SUPPORT 'OUR' IMC RATING, SIGN THE PETITION AT

http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/IMC-Rating/

[JW411]

I retired a few years ago and bought myself a spamcan. I had not renewed my SEP for 22 years but I got that back without much hassle. I was advised to keep my national ATPL going so that I could maintain IMC privileges.

I looked at getting a Single Pilot IR (that ran out many years ago also) but that involved getting back into my puddlejumper with a CAA Examiner despite the fact that I originally had a SP IR and have a Multi Pilot IR (which is still renewed every 6 months). I came to the conclusion that I really didn't need a Single Pilot IR. After all, an IR isn't a hell of a lot of use to you if your only engine quits when the cloud base is 200 feet and the RVR is 550 metres! An IMC and years of practice should be enough to get me out of the sh*t in the sort of minimas that I sensibly set myself nowadays.

It is interesting that FAStoat raises the subject of the terrible woman. I have to say that I have never had to deal with her personally but I have heard of many, many horror stories. I heard recently on the grapevine that said lady has lost her Class 1 medical due to heart problems and has "been withdrawn from the front line". There could just be an outbreak of rejoicing throughout the land.

[llanfairpg]

It is interesting that FAStoat raises the subject of the terrible woman. I have to say that I have never had to deal with her personally but I have heard of many, many horror stories. I heard recently on the grapevine that said lady has lost her Class 1 medical due to heart problems and has "been withdrawn from the front line". There could just be an outbreak of rejoicing throughout the land.

Hang on before we have a party, what line is she on?

Shame though people have to be like that, I actually feel sorry for her, yeh I know what a tit etc!

[IO540]

I fully expect BALPA to want no private aviation in controlled airspace.

Luckily they don't make policy, and the same comment applies to a load of other bodies. I am sure the ATC unions would have the same view. All the so-called professional bodies (not just in aviation) tend to lean the same way - towards extreme elitism, unless there is subscription income involved in which case everything changes.

[Fuji Abound]

MODS

So why did this get moved please?

It is far more relevant where it was.

It has a lot more to do with pilots who are NOT currently flying SEPs but may wish to do so when they retire (exactly as the title suggest) and may not realise that their own union is about to make this a whole lot more difficult for them (if the reports are true).

Please can you move it back from whence it came!

[S-Works]

It has a lot more to do with pilots who are NOT currently flying SEPs but may wish to do so when they retire (exactly as the title suggest) and may not realise that their own union is about to make this a whole lot more difficult for them (if the reports are true).

Which with all due respect makes it a private flying thread, nothing to do with the CAT.

[IO540]

No, the objective was to draw it to the attention of currently serving airline pilots, who can then apply pressure in the appropriate places.

The vast majority of GA pilots do not read pilot forums anyway, and the more "professionally" they fly the less likely they are to hang out in them.

But pprune is very busy at the airline pilot end of things.

[Stampe]

Large numbers of Balpa activists and members myself included are extremely active light aircraft pilots and owners.The Balpa technical secretary(full time Balpa staff) who represents the association in this arena is a PPL/IMC with a quarter share in a Bolkow.Any anti GA sentiments are coming from the European associations not Balpa.I fly 130 hours a year in my own and club light aircraft.I have been involved in Balpa for the last 20 years often representing the association at meetings with the CAA.I have always tried to retain and further the priveleges of Uk licence holders.Not easy in the current bureaucratic enviroment.Balpa is pro aviation .

[S-Works]

Well if nothing else it is interesting to see that even the might airline unions are not representing the grass roots membership.

So perhaps BALPA can run a campaign to save the IMC. Pressure coming from inside the biggest dissenting voice at the table would certainly throw an interesting spanner in the works.

[llanfairpg]

I have been involved in Balpa for the last 20 years often representing the association at meetings with the CAA.I have always tried to retain and further the priveleges of Uk licence holders.Not easy in the current bureaucratic enviroment.Balpa is pro aviation .Stampe, could you, or someone, try and get something in 'The Log' about this please.

The Rumour and News section says

Reporting Points that may affect our jobs or lives as professional pilots

Thats why I put the post there in the first place. Its certainly going to affect my job and life if I have to renew my IR instead of my IMC rating in retirement!

[BEagle]

If the IMC`goes, instead of GA pilots flying quite safely under IFR outside CAS, with a RIS/RAS ('traffic' or 'deconfliction' soon?), there are likely to be:

1. A few, very few with IR/SPAs doing the same thing.

2. A lot more scud runners talking to nobody - particularly if the UK's more restrictive PPL in-flight visibility limits are harmonised with ICAO.

Which is the bigger threat to airliner drivers? Particularly those flying into smaller regional airports....

The European Cockpit Association should also be told that no-one would be able to fly with a EU Class 2 IR (or UK IMCR) unless they can speak Level 4 ICAO and fly a suitably equipped aeroplane. Probably with Mode S very shortly. So where do these ECA people see the threat coming from?

To my mind they're just being dogs-in-a-manger. If the EU insists on all this harmonisation, then all current national ratings should be available in all EASA states. Nothing less is really acceptable.

[Fuji Abound]

Stampe

Yes, I would second an addition to the log please.

Could you establish what BALPAs position on this actually is, and let us know please?

It is being reported that are anti IMC rating.

[llanfairpg]

Which is the bigger threat to airliner drivers? Particularly those flying into smaller regional airports.

Exactly, in my experience the IMC rating improves accuracyand confidence in VFR flying as well and hopefully prevents what I heard a LARS controller say to a PPL once

"Are you actually capable of flying a heading"?

[llanfairpg]

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