MODE S at LACC

[GM WAN TO BE]

Perhaps someone knows the answer....

MODE S is now fully up and running at MACC and LTCC. When do you think it will appear at LACC? Or is it in the too difficult pile :ugh:

[anotherthing]

Considering the state of another programme that should have been implemented by now in ACc, I would have thought it would be a while off yet.

If controllers are slightly reticent on new controller tools, then why should they be happy to train on Mode S?

The 'too difficult box' is not always 'ticked' by non operational staff! Implementation of a new system requires good will from all involved and a bit more of a 'get on and do it' attitude

[Radarspod]

Mode S at MACC was relatively easy to achieve from technical perspective as the same RDP system already in place and Mode S already used by LTC, as it will be for Prestwick. Unfortunately, the LAC RDP system is different, and not easily upgradeable. However, work is in the pipeline to bring it in sometime soon. CAA DAP already had the request to extend the Mode S airpace outside of the LTMA.

The best things come to those who wait, LAC just has to wait a bit longer!

Don't forget, LAC is served by 7 Mode S radars already, so benefit is already being given, even if you can't get to the DAPS, etc.

[1985]

Personally i would love to have mode S at LACC. Would make life easier. The quicker the better IMHO.

As for the certain other program there is no reticence on my part to retrain, but what can we do when it keeps falling behind due to software probelms? The "get on and do it" attitude is there but it needs something to be used with and at the moment it is not where it needs to be for us to have confidence in it.

[Minesapint]

Feb 2010 target date, IP is raised and on its way! That's the best date when everything else is considered.

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

So, do I understand that TC has lost Mode S following the move south??

[ImnotanERIC]

no, still have it

[Radarspod]

Nope, it was all there ready, waiting and working when LTC moved. Even NATS has started to realise going backwards doesn't help.......:}

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

But En-route don't have it? How bizarre, given that they're so close...

[BDiONU]

But En-route don't have it? How bizarre, given that they're so close...
Might be closer but the systems are exactly the same as when TC were at WD i.e. totally incompatible. Will be quite some years until NERL units are all using a single system from both centres.

BD

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

<<the systems are exactly the same as when TC were at WD i.e. totally incompatible. >>

The words "unbelieveble" and "incredible" come quickly to mind!

[1985]

The words "unbelieveble" and "incredible" come quickly to mind!

NATS also comes to mind

[Squadgy]

MODE S is now fully up and running at MACC

Does anyone know if Manchester Approach/ Director also have Mode S? Cheers.

[Gonzo]

Take it from me guys, you do not want to transition to a whole new flight data display system and new concept of ops on top of a location change.

Personally, getting TC into Swanwick with the 'legacy' (or whatever they're calling it this week) equipment was a sensible move.

[055166k]

The bigger questions might be:
How long before aircrew get fed up with spy-in-the-cab?
Is it right and proper that a controller might query a pilot's actions or selections.....given that it is unlikely that the controller is qualified on type?
Are we turning ATC into a giant video game?
Do you want a couple of dozen label blocks the size of Greater London to distract you from the prime function of controlling?
Deafening silence from the "regulator" as usual.....this ends up with 50 controllers developing 50 different personal operating regimes...as usual!
P.S. At the moment, if a pilot fails to comply with an instruction or imposed limitation, the fault [if that is the appropriate word] might be identified as a pilot error. If it is the duty of the controller to cross-check or monitor any mode S indicator....then fault might be said to apply equally or partially with the controller. Do you want that?

[NudgingSteel]

Not sure I'd describe it as spy-in-the-cab - it only shows MCP selected parameters which are shortly going to become apparent to ATC, once the aircraft carries them out. I'm sure many crews would prefer to have the controller notice a mis-selected ALT and query it, rather than deal with a level bust and associated paperwork. I'm not type rated on anything, but that sure as hell isn't going to stop me checking with a pilot if I've cleared him to a level, and then see he's dialled in a thousand feet lower.

I do agree with you about the size of the data blocks, though; we'll see come next summer if this is going to be a major issue.

[Empty Cruise]

As a driver, I much appreciate having my selections monitored via Mode S - it makes life a little bit less stressful to know that there is one more layer of cheese to be penetrated.

Was accordingly surprised to hear MACC inform me this morning that "HON speed profile still applies, ...etc. etc." - when we had 290 prominently displayed on the MCP :suspect:

Or have they taken away your speed readout??? :}

[Minesapint]

For what its worth the strategy is correct. TMA's (with the biggest level bust problem) first, then area units, the busiest first. Prestwick will open with Mode S so that MACC controllers maintain continuity. The Swanwick displays are a little more difficult to change.

As for 'spy in the cab' I think that notion is ridiculous. Pilots and controllers make errors, and if the systems are capable of pointing these errors our BEFORE there is an incident then that is a very good thing. STCA points out a lack of separation, shall we pull that because its embarrasing??? :ugh:

TC displays/systems: so what would you like TC systems to do? :8

[Defruiter]

Or have they taken away your speed readout???

We have to press a button to toggle the speed up on the label, whereas the select level is always shown on the label (and can't be turned off). The controller obviously didn't have it up at the time.

[RadarRambler]

ATCOS seem to love mode S and hopefully it gets rolled out across all units, including approach units, it interesting to see how pilots now feel about controllers now knowing how accurate the pilot is actually doing as we ask...

[PPRuNe Radar]

Good informative posts there Mike, it's always useful to know things from the aircrew perspective :ok:

Prestwick will open with Mode S so that MACC controllers maintain continuity.

More likely because with NODE, it can ....... ;)

[anotherthing]

Mike,

Point taken about us questioning you regarding step climbs on a SID, but until the FMS/Mode S interlink is clever enough (not sure which side of the equipment is at fault) to indicate that you are indeed stopping at the intermediate levels, we will continue to quiz you!

The day we do not quiz a pilot is the day that they bust a level and have a nasty.

Not all aircraft are (yet) set up like yours, for that sake of safety we must continue to ask.

As for your computer, how do we know, sitting on the ground, that your system has the updated SID profile? (I know they don't change that often, especially the step climbs, but you can see what I am getting at).

It is a pain both for you and us, but as it stands at the moment when we do not have anywhere near 100% compliance, if we don't ask, then we might as well get rid of the equipment.

Departure is one of the busiest phases for you in your flight, so asking you unnecessary questions is not great, but because of the interaction of SIDS in the LTMA, it is also one of the most safety critical times.

If we can prevent you from having a level bust, especially when you are busy in the cockpit with other things, then it would be negligent for us to not question you :ok: