QF LH CC Onboard Manager Promotions

[DEFCON4]

Well the phones have started to ring.Those successful with their OBM interviews are being rung even as we speak.
Looks like a big improvement over the last debacle.Im Hearing some excellent names.
An outside influence seems to have made a lot of difference

[Keg]

Ah yes, the term 'on board manager' that seemed to appear from nowhere a few years back and now many CSMs refer to themselves as such. How much more grand it sounds than 'Customer Service Manager'. :ugh:

Did this new term come from QCC1 or is has it just become a convention? Is OBM the new term or do I still use CSM?

(Sorry to derail the thread....congratulations to all the new CSM/OBMs). :E :ok:

[domo]

Ah yes, the term 'on board manager' that seemed to appear from nowhere a few years back and now many CSMs refer to themselves as such. How much more grand it sounds than 'Customer Service Manager'
prefered the FSD myself

[twiggs]

The term "on board manager" is used to refer to either the CSM or CSS or both being "the on board management team", ie not a new name for CSM.

[surfside6]

OBM or CSM or CSS.....it still means one thing......****e kicker

[Bullethead]

I did an OBM course as part of my command training years ago so the term has been around a while. Maybe I'm really a FSD?! :E

Flite Sim Driver perhaps.

Regards,
BH.

[capt.cynical]

OBM & CSM used to be FSD :{
Now FSD could best describe the CC management team.
Fag$%ts--Sheilas's & Dunnces :eek::ugh::O

[Keg]

Bullethead. It was in the aftermath of the development of that course that I started to hear the term 'on board manager' more and more.

Personally I think Twiggs comment is the most insightful of the lot as to how QCC1 et al view the 'management' of the aircraft. There are so many lines of 'discussion' that spring from that thought process that I'm stuffed if I can work out which one to take! :E :rolleyes:

[funbags]

And I thought the Onboard Manager on the aircraft was the Captain... :rolleyes:

Try telling a lot of CSM's that though :eek:

Cabin Manager, CSM, FSD, Purser are all more applicable terms. Definitely not the Onboard Manager.

[lowerlobe]

Ahhh once again an example of the easily bruised ego .....

Of course if we extend funbags brilliant analysis of a business structure we see that in any organisation there can only be one manager no matter how large the organisation.

That puts this QF into a spot of bother as they have the largest ratio of chiefs to Indians that any organisation in the known world has....

Then again we can see the contradiction ,in her logic when she/he tells us...

Cabin Manager, CSM, FSD, Purser are all more applicable terms - definitely not the Onboard Manager.

..No..... definitely not managers but she agrees that they are Cabin Managers,Customer Service Manager etc....

But funbags....if they are managers and they are 'On Board' then, are they not an 'On Board Manager'?.....Mmmmmmm

I hope funbags that the lack of logic here is not indicative of your abilities to solve other problems......'On Board'.... if you are indeed a commercial pilot.

[grouter]

'on board' is a term becoming more and more prevalent, and carries with it connotations of being on side with management. Be careful whose jargon you use and when you use it. FSD was fine, so was purser, but OBM - pulleeze!

[funbags]

Back to the retirement home Lobey.

Onboard is too general a term and implies that the CSM is indeed the overall "manager" of the aircraft. Despite a lot of them thinking that this is the case, they are not. (Just check the FAM, and the subsequent chain of command structure which places them beneath the most junior of Second Officers and Flight Engineers)

A more specific term which mentions that they run the cabin only (as discussed previously) is more pertinent.

PS Not a bruised ego at all. I'll leave that for you! Just the facts!

[lowerlobe]

funbags..... Once again you show your inability to understand the bigger picture.Just because someone no longer works for an employer does not mean they are retired.

I'm very happy not to be involved with a company that believes that it's employees are a necessary liability.

I have a great job now in which I do not have to pander to the infantile ego's of some pilots and pax.

However,this thread is about the 'On Board' manager selection process not your ego.

If it makes you happier to call an on Board Manager a 'cabin crew' manager so as not to give the impression that he/she runs the pilots as well as the cabin then you do indeed have a very easily bruised ego and I suggest you receive counselling and therapy.

You remind me of the well known tech crew who is happy that the new 'B' scale for cabin crew means that they will not be recieving as much as Dash 8 pilots....

In fact your initials are not D N..are they??????

[prunezeuss]

Airbus stated intention is to design the pilot out of the Flight Deck.
The Dog and the pilot scenario is gaining more relevance.
Particularly in light of the previous comments.
Any way we digress.
Congratulations to all the successful applicants.
You are the first real "onboard Managers"to be promoted in years.The last lot were the result of nepotism and poor decision making

[watch your6]

Q.What do Pilots Manage?
A.The FMC
Q.What does the FMC do ?
A.Everything.... except eat five meals between SYD and SIN and imbibe 27 litres of Coffee and Tea in the same time frame.
As far as Cabin Management is concerned their presence is irrelevant.

[Pegasus747]

Truly funny comment above..literally spilled my coffee :)

[lowerlobe]

prunezeuss .....

I think your right with all the new technology and 'systems analyst' would be a far better term than the current one for techies ......:E

watchyour6...brilliant ...you could also add that the FMC will not chill the beers for the crew bus so that is why they have second officers....

Your right though and congratulations are definitely in order for the new "On Board Managers'.

I hope your wrong though with the comment that nepotism was evident with the last recruits.I shudder to think of who's relative's now wear those uniforms.

You might have meant cronyism and that would certainly be the case and has been for many years....

[funbags]

Hey Lobey.

There is a big difference between pilots and cabin crew. In reality, we can serve tea/coffee (no qualifications required). In reality, you can't fly an aeroplane (licence required). That's why we are the Onboard Managers, and you look after the cabin stuff! :}

[airsupport]

Airbus stated intention is to design the pilot out of the Flight Deck.
The Dog and the pilot scenario is gaining more relevance.

And Boeing have also wanted this, since at least the early 1980s that I am aware of, so it will happen eventually.

There will always NEED to be some staff in the cabin though, apart from any evacuation, also to feed the pax etc, so then these people WILL BE the ONLY Onboard Managers. ;)

[I'm Driving]

This thread is a shining example of why Cabin Crew, are Cabin Crew. And Pilots are Pilots.

Funbags, if you think CSM's think they run the show, you're probably right, in some cases (I've never come across it), but definatly not all. But so what? In the end, if it pisses you off, put them in their place, that is the Captain's job. They haven't changed his/her title. Because that what they are, the Captain. At the end of the day the Second Officer is higher ranking that the CSM or "onboard manager", whatever, if they step too far, just a quick word in their ear is all that is required. The majority are great people, but they probably have better things to do than post on pprune.

In truth, when we are doing what we really do, the Cabin Crew are safely strapped in their seats. When they bring things to the flight deck, we are, in general, not doing what we really do, so you can understand their ignorance as to what it is that we really do.

[watch your6]

You are born with interpersonal skills
You can acquire technical skills.
Flight Deck monitors are living proof you cant acquire personality.
Hope the dog is a Kelpie

[captainrats]

I know where this thread is going.
I hear the patter of little(moderator) feet

[labia vortex]

What occupation has the highest rate of Colon Cancer?
Pilots.
Looks like God doesnt like the Monitors either.
But wait ....isnt God a Pilot?Oh Yes I forgot..he works for JetStar.

[lowerlobe]

One of the main roles of a manager is to know what the duties of those they manage involve...

Funbags has shown time and again that he/she knows very little about the role of Cabin Crew with this statement...

In reality, we can serve tea/coffee (no qualifications required). In reality, you can't fly an aeroplane (licence required).

So that diminishes funbags argument that he/she is the real On Board Manager because a real manager knows the abilities of their organisation.

Some points here funbags..

1:After watching tech crew over the years I sincerely doubt that some tech crew would be able to serve Tea and Coffee let alone anything else we do....

2:You need a license to drive a car but that doesn't necessarily mean that drivers are better because they have a license.In fact with the road toll it would appear the exact opposite is a more accurate statement.

3:With your fragile and easily bruised ego I very much doubt that you would last 1 sector with passengers.

4:If your association was given the vote for a 'B' scale they would grab it with open arms if it meant their conditions were protected.Remember a few years ago when your union sold a lot of it's award conditions including the 1,1,2 slipping pattern.The pilots then spat the dummy on a number of occasions when cabin crew had a longer slip.....sad but true...

But here is the real truth that some pilots think of cabin crew...

I have for many years thought it was absolutely abhorrent when one compares the pay of a CSM with that of a Dash 8 Captain (and F/O!).

Q.Which needs higher skill and training levels, and carries more responsibility?

This will, many many years down the track, address that imbalance somewhat.

....So instead of increasing the pay of a Dash 8 pilot this Capt is happy that cabin crew pay is being reduced.....it makes him feel better......poor little boy:yuk:

Your point of view funbags seems very similar to this chap....

[Butterfield8]

A few years back sitting in the Garden of McCormick and Schmicks in Pasadena having a few beers.
A Captain loudly proclaims that he hadnt spoken to a second officer in 14 sectors.
Pretty much says it all.
Isnt Funbags an S/O on a Chipmunk ?

[RedTBar]

OK,
C'mon guys enough of this rubbish.There will always be some pilots and cabin Crew that think the world spins around them and them only.

Both of us have a job to do and we don't need it made any more difficult with this sort of infighting.

Congrats to those getting the jacket and best of luck up the track.The real problem they will have is staying awake or trying not to throw up during the course.
Let's hope the IFE on the new airbus is better than on the 400 but if you think about it the new one couldn't be any worse.
Any win is a bonus

[Keg]

Geez, who would have known that this would turn into such a phallic argument! :ugh:

Personally I think the term 'On Board Manager' is indistinct, ambiguous, pretentious, and has delusions of grandeur for the position it alludes to. That's got absolutely nothing to do with the importance or otherwise of the role of the position the term is being used for. I'm more than comfortable with the lines of responsibility and authority on the aircraft. I'm also more than comfortable that the term CSM or FSD is a much more descriptive and appropriate term. Whilst I admire the job our cabin crew do (there is no way I could go through what you guys deal with) there is one 'on board manager' in law and it ain't the CSM, FSD or whatever term we want to use this week.

For the sensitive souls though, how would you feel were the Techies to start using the term 'on board management team'? Would you feel that excludes the CSM from being considered part of that team? See the point?

[DEFCON4]

The Term "Onboard Manager" was coined by the idiots who run Cabin Crew.
I agree with you Keg it has delusions of grandeur,pretentious and is ambiguous.
Perhaps Capt.Manning and Lesley Grant could get together and come up with a more
appropriate title like EPM(Every Pilot's Mommy)

[Explicitus]

I always kind of liked the term "Purser". I think it has a stylish, old world ring to it....

[lowerlobe]

Originally posted by Keg...
how would you feel were the Techies to start using the term 'on board management team'?

Keg I doubt that cabin crew would have a second thought about it.They would file it away with all the other irrelevant rubbish they are told.

It seems though that some tech crew have problems with a CSM or CSS being called on board Managers.

The basic's are that the techies fly the aircraft and we manage the cabin.In no way do any Cabin Crew think they manage the tech crew.

As far as chain of command is concerned most Captains that know what they are doing and are confident in themselves do not concern themselves with the cabin unless there is a safety issue or other critical situation which obviously then concerns them.

Fairly simple you would think but some seem to have a problem with it....

[sinala1]

http://www.manbottle.com/pictures/man_with_a_very_big_cock.jpg
versus
http://www.istockphoto.com/file_thumbview_approve/124283/2/istockphoto_124283_male_chicken.jpg


The point is, as Lowerlobe has pointed out - does it REALLY matter? I think there are more important things in the world to be expending this much energy on...

[jetjockey7]

Before computers,ILS and an array of other technology was invented pilots indeed FLEW planes.
Things have changed dramatically over the last 20 years.While pilot skills are important they are not as important as they once were.
If you could convince the travelling public otherwise Airlines would and could have pilotless flight decks.The technology is available now.Apart from the very occasional drama Aicraft fly themselves.In another 30 years pilots will probably not exist in their current capacity.
As has been pointed out you will still need a human presence in the Cabin.
I really do not understand all this elitist fuss.Captain is a civil commission not a Royal commission.CSMs or what ever you want to call them are quite happy about the separation of power and authority.Sitting in a small confined space for 14 hours with an array of LCDs and someone you may not like or respect is not everyones idea of fun.From a second officers point of view it must be pure hell having some old fart telling you when you can and cant breathe.Definitely anachronistic at best

[Much Ado]

Bunch of children.:ugh:

Start this thread again and I'll delete it.:mad: