Difficult choice! What would you do?

[Brie]

Hi

Today i got a mail from Ryan that i passed the sim ride and can start as a cadet on 737-800. As you all know i have to pay for, a lot.

At my present job i also got the offer that i could fly the learjet 45 and that my type will be paid by the company. Salary will be around 1800£ after tax.

Now, i don't what to do. What should i choose?:ugh:

Any advice is welcome

[MJR]

Stick with the Lear Jet.

cheers

MJR

[dontpressthat]

If it helps.. I'll take the one you dont want..:ok:

DPT

[5 RINGS]

Yeap, couldn't give a better advice except if you look at a future career move requiring X hrs on A/C with MTOW in excess of such and such Tons.

If you're not fed up with GA flying or in trouble with your bank, you're better off keeping it.

[dartagnan]

go with ryanair, and give me the lear job. PM me please!!

[Nichibei Aviation]

Flying on bizjets is fun: Seeing another city everyday, landing everyday on a new airport, no commercial pressure (they don't look at every extra kg of fuel you spent or blaim you because you made a go-around), reduced paperwork, no difficult passengers, more freedom, etc...

Career perspectives in Europe are excellent, with all actual bizjet carriers ordering many many aircraft: for example, Netjets recently ordered 50+ aircraft including Falcon's and Hawker's.
The VLJ's are also starting to invade the continent with Turkish carriers ordering a few hundreds of them.

The atmosphere is relaxed because profit margins are way higher.

If you rather have a routine job, then commercial flying is a better option.

I've seen many captains swap their commercial job for an entry at Netjets as F/O.

[TheFlyingDJ]

Go with the Lear job.

[Mercenary Pilot]

£1800 after tax, I don't think you will make that at Ryanair for at least 6-12 months.

Take the £25,000 and buy a nice flat or sports car and enjoy tearing up the skies in the Learjet.

:ok:

[Flintstone]

The Learjet.

[RAFAT]

Lear 45, absolutely no contest!

[Ideal Line]

Silly question Brie. Learjet without a shadow of doubt.

Even if you prefer the airlines, a few years flying the learjet around should make you very interesting for the airlines. And they will probably pay for the training too.

[patience]

take the LearJet job, cracking machine

[Treeshaver]

I think that's him told then!

[Superpilot]

Depends, is the other company a worse employer than RYR? :E

[Der_Fischmeister]

myself flying lear 60´s jsut asking u this question ..why flying a cargolifter when u can get into a fighter ???

No more thinking ..it must be the Lear ..cheers

[Brie]

Ok that's obvious. The learjet.

Thx for your support
grtz

[alex111]

With a different opinion from every1 else...the way I see it is that in a few yrs time most companies will make u pay for a type rating even if u have experience (look at places like italy and spain where this is already happening). And in any case, learjet experience will not give u the appropriate hours some companies require for funding the TR (look at the requirements for easyjet, BA etc.).

Biz jet flying is indeed an amazing experience both on the flying and life experience. But if your ultimate goal is to be line flying, then u might find urself in a few yrs time still having to pay for a TR and in pretty much the same position as u are now.
If that is the case than take ryanair now since u're given the opportunity. It's a good place to start for low houred cadets, loads of hours, loads of T\O and landings and better pay than what u mentioned. U can take out a loan that will cover ur costs over the TR & line training periods, and after that (around 6 months from when u enter the company) u'll be earning more than enough to pay the loan back and live a good life.

Having said that, I think u'll do just fine with either decision.

Cya, Alex.

[5150]

I've seen many captains swap their commercial job for an entry at Netjets as F/O.

Really??!

How many?

[tablelover]

Depends if you wanna get into the airlines I would suggest the 737 with RYR. Nothin up with the Lear but the 737 will potentially open more doors. A very popular type rating, a heavy type, airline experience, better pay and benefits to name a few advantages. Whilst the cost of training always seems prohibitive at the time you will eventually pay it off and the cost may lead to you getting a better job.

The Lear would certainly be a hoot to fly and an enjoyable lifestyle but IMHO the 73 is the best bet. Enviable position either way congrats.

[Treeshaver]

lets see,

option 1, learjet.

No pay for TR, earnings after tax: 1800 X 12 = 21600 in first year.


Ryan Air.

earnings in 1st year will definitely be negative after the tr and accommodation while line training are taken into account.

So unless your a complete idiot its gotta be the lear jet. The lear jet will give you a great start for an aviation career, ok perhaps not as good as the 737 but is it worth buying your way onto the 737 now, just to get u slightly ahead in the future?

Work your way to where u want to be, dont try and buy your way there.

[Nichibei Aviation]

Really??!

How many?


Many, most of them were promoted to a captain position within 2 years.
Netjets doesn't take direct entry captains.

[BYALPHAINDIA]

Yes, It would have to be the L45, In today's climate of uncertainty, You could be out of work in 6 months?

I doubt it at FR, But the L45 is more hands-on free flying, Than flying the Bucket n Spade's:D

[G-SPOTs Lost]

The lear will be a lot of fun

However I slated my mate who did the cadet scheme with FR and to be honest if you were to look at his earnings over 4 years he is in front after flying with Ryanair, if you look at his earnings over 10 years (Think mortgage, wife, kids, porsche, bald head) honestly FR will be the way to go.
After 4 years you will probably make P1 at FR,

Depending on your hours now it could take 5/6 years to make P1 on the Lear because you physically do less flying and the insurers make the rules

P1 at FR =£90k (Admittedly a lot of b**lsh1t, pay for sim, water, etc etc)

P1 Lear = £60-65k great fun but possibly less job stability

The difference is your mortgage paid, your kids school fees paid or your wife not needing to work and of course she needs a mini cooper to go see the horses. :rolleyes:

I fly P1 on mid size bizjets and love it but now I'm rapidly approaching baldness I would rather fly a 737 for ezy/fr/whoever purely from a stable roster and cash point of view.

Please also be fully aware that this is a very nice problem to have and many would jump at the chance for either.

Oh and for having "no commercial pressure" and "vast profit" margins in GA, whoever posted that clearly has no experience of this corner of our industry

[Brie]

G-Spot,

As a highly qualified pilot on mid size bizz jets, is it difficult for you to start with an airliner? You have experience (i think highly experience) so it can't be that hard. I choose for the lear. Ok it is not heavy a/c aircraft, but i gain experience and i fly with a jet.

grtz

[Nichibei Aviation]

There's no difference between flying a heavy or a light.
The flying is all the same, recent jets are all EFIS equipped.

Your bizjet career can give you way more advantages later on: carriers like Emirates, Singapore, Etihad, .. etc really don't look at how many pax or cargo you carried but how variable your job was: how many different airports you landed on, how many different sorts of operations you had, etc...

However I slated my mate who did the cadet scheme with FR and to be honest if you were to look at his earnings over 4 years he is in front after flying with Ryanair, if you look at his earnings over 10 years (Think mortgage, wife, kids, porsche, bald head) honestly FR will be the way to go.
After 4 years you will probably make P1 at FR,

The day you start flying for the money you shouldn't be flying anymore.
I'm not saying you should pay to fly, no far from that.
I'm saying that the day you loose the interest in the flying you become a dangerous pilot, you will start to operate your aircraft on an "auto-pilot" sequence.
You also shouldn't be forgetting that you are risking your life for this job.

Airliners may be the safest form of transport.
Don't forget though that it is the unsafest form of people transport on its scale (beating cruisers, and ships in the 200+ people category) and that any mistake can easier lead to disastrous outcomes.

[G-SPOTs Lost]

There's no difference between flying a heavy or a light

Innacurate

The flying is all the same, recent jets are all EFIS equipped

Not all the jets we fly are new - bizjets were produced before the 1990's you know, not all airliners are new. The flying is NOT all the same for many reasons. Try flying to JFK in a Lear 45!

Nichibei - I could pull your last post pretty much to pieces but because I'm too polite I wont. Be under no illusion flying is fun but after 6 months it becomes a job - a great job, but a job.

Nichiebei if the world was the way you see it we would all be flying DC3's wearing white scarfs, smoking cigarettes in the cockpit. When the ink is dry on your type rating and you have 500+ hrs on type, your kids still need feeding and you aspire for a faster car and a bigger house. Thats genetics and DNA not the sign of a dangerous pilot which if you were experienced to know either way I might take offence at !! ;)

[Rhodes13]

carriers like Emirates, Singapore, Etihad, .. etc really don't look at how many pax or cargo you carried but how variable your job was: how many different airports you landed on, how many different sorts of operations you had, etc
What utter tosh. Emirates et al all want time in jets over 50T now last time I checked a lear came no where even close to this magical number. Mate do you leave in the real world?
Flying a lear might be for you but dont go around saying its the be all and end all. It amazes me that people pop onto pprune to get advice on which job to choose. Surely when you started out you knew what type of flying you wanted to do? Do you want to be a corporate pilot with all that entails ie loading bags being on call at all hours, serving food etc or do you want to be a line jockey for an airline? The choice is really that simple!
Like many other posters here have said flying is a job and a job that I love but love dont pay the rent and for the things I want in life! As for being a dangerous pilot I would be highly insulted at that!

[Brie]

No, even before training i did not decide on what type a/c i wanted to fly. It surprises me all the time that a lot of people say" after training i want to fly with Boeing, flying 5 years and then going for the left seat". I'm not like that. I agree you have to look a bit forward but not to far i think. Life is full of surprises and you don't know what is coming to you.

In considering 2 job opportunities i've looked the complete package. So not only the type of a/c but also the atmosphere in the company, finance and so on.

Afterall i can gain experience, at that is for me the most important thing. I don't know where i'm going to end: flying a corporate jet as p1, flying an airliner, being an instructor..... I really don't know, but i know it will all work out and i"m positive about the future.

grtz
brie

[Nichibei Aviation]

Try flying to JFK in a Lear 45!


Let me teach you one thing kid, the Lear 45 is a recent bizjet and it is standard EFIS equipped.
I don't see what you mean by flying a Lear into JFK? There are Lear's flying as corporate service into JFK.

And this is the Emirates first officer minimum requirement sheet:

Requirements for Position of First Officer - A330/A340 and B777

A minimum of 4,000 hours total flying time
A minimum of 2,000 hours multi-crew, multi-engined jet aircraft experience
ICAO ATPL
English language fluency (written and verbal comprehension)
Experience commensurate with age
Type rated would be advantageousWhere does it say that you need Heavy experience?
I know at least 1 person who had a bizjet career and is now flying for Emirates.

You should try to reconsider what you are saying and let the people who know more tell what they know, instead of disrespecting flight school employees with more market experience just to make yourself feel superior.:D

Now now, 1800£ isn't sufficient to pay the rent, the food, etc..?
Where are you living, in the buckingham palace?

1800£ is probably for the first years but once you gain seniority you most surely get an upgrade.

Once you lose the love of the job and start to work purely for the money, your motivation level decreases.




Thumbs up Brie, enjoy it.

[G-SPOTs Lost]

Let me teach you one thing kid :ugh:

I wish, I'm nearly 40.

Nichibei Aviation what is your current aircraft type?

I mention the Lear 45 into JFK to differentiate between long range and short range operations, Lear into JFk from the UK would require two stops, it was a tongue in cheek comment about the differences in the kind of operations.

You may recall at least 1 freind who got in to Emirates however the guy here considering the Lear job would not have the minimum requirements to be able to even log on to the British Airways Online recruitment website after flying the Lear 45 for 5 years!

Not advocating either way just trying to highlight the differences.

Lear = less pay more fun
Airliner= more pay less fun

Pick and enjoy , this is a win/win situation!

[Megaton]

Traditionally BA, for one, has never taken on many pilots from Ryanair. Now I have no figures on the numbers that may apply but, having flown with recruiters, their view is that hardly any make it through initial screening.

So, agreed a L45 might not help you into an airline like BA but neither is RYR!

[G-SPOTs Lost]

Ham

Quite agree, strange that though - you would think that they may get extra brownie points for the work ethic and having put up with all the MOL crap and after all commercial JAA 737 ops is commercial JAA 737 ops isn't it.

The point I was tring to make about the Lear was the fact that for DEP recruitment purposes BA dont count any time on any aircraft less than 20t.

It might have changed now however that was certainly the case when I tried to plug in my Citation time a few years ago and didn't even get as far as typing in my name and address!!

[Megaton]

There are quite a few ex-BMI Regional guys in BA who've only flown the Emb 135/145 which I believe is under 20 T.

[qw21]

Ham - I thought quite a few guys go to BA having got a few thousand hrs at RYR/EZY?

[Der_Fischmeister]

At the end ..its not about flying different types..u fly a cockpit around in the skies...

What really matters--
1.) Are you happy with what u do?
2.)Off Days?
3.)Pay

Im single and have no kids ,so for me flying my Lear around and stay at different places,is the ultimate job.
Having a Family with Kids should bring up a few other things to consider.

Merry Xmas ya all ....

ciaoo

[TwoTone-7]

Indeed, quite a few ex EZY drivers with BA. Unsure about RYR.

[G-SPOTs Lost]

E135/145 has more than 20 seats - back door apparently.

[crj100]

How many? Can't tell you. Except say that I am one of them......

Skipped airline FC position with 11 yrs seniority for a job in netJets.

Any I never regret it at all..... I know of 4 former colleagues who is considering NetJets, presently being in FC positions in Easy, Ryan and Sterling.....

Lowcost sucks when you have been there - despite the pay, it get's to you.

And typeratings isn't everything. A great job with a good lifestyle counts more than a B737/A320 typerating and $$/€€/££ on the bankaccount after some time!

Merry Xmas to everybody ;)

[G-SPOTs Lost]

CRJ

Glad netjets is working for you, however NetJets is not like "Normal" GA, you must concede that it is an airline with no route structure, flying non airline equipment.

Being called by the boss at midnight on your day off for an early departure and making sandwiches in your hotel room can be on occasion what its like.

Dont tell this guy that taking the Lear job is like Netjets cos its not!

NJE P1 salarys are more in line with Loco P1 salarys as well - this is against the GA norm.

Once again glad you made the move to Netjets and its working for you

[Nichibei Aviation]

Thanks for teaching me this morning that Netjets is an abnormal general aviation airline with no route structure and flying non-airline equipment.

I bet you emptied a few buckets of Irish brew before you wrote that :cool:

Maybe our dear Brie here will not be flying for Netjets, but that may very well be the case in a few years, after his Lear experience.

Let's wish him all the best!

Oh, and yes, Netjets is one of the biggest operators of bizjets (if not the biggest) in Europe and therefore they are setting the standards of the industry.

I would be very interested to know more about your background dear G-spot, as you seem to be a passionate but not a connaisseur.

[G-SPOTs Lost]

Aw comeon Nichebei,

Its Christmas Day - relax

I'm happy to post here my background, but you may recall

Nichibei Aviation what is your current aircraft type?

I asked first, didnt your mother tell you never to reply to a question with another question ;)

Come on tell us all, whats your current type? Mines only a Cessna :E