Tiger Oz

[1707111]

is it true tiger oz may expand and have a base in perth

[CDRW]

Have not heard that one - but would be interested to hear if anyone has any news.

[Fliegenmong]

They're still trying to get flights out of Cooly :}

[3 Holer]

If expansion goes to plan, I am informed there will be a Perth Base in the near future.

[Skystar320]

3 Holer

If should be turned into Expansion inventiable

Perth is seen as lets say a goldmine of opportunities such as Jetstar is viewing it

[The Voice]

that's an interesting "word" 'inventiable' ..

did you mean inventible - capable of invention or inevitable - it's going to happen?

[Keg]

Anyone actually know what they're terms and conditions are? The rumour was J* plus 10-20% but I've yet to hear of firm details.

[Skystar320]

did you mean inventible - capable of invention or inevitable - it's going to happen?

Excuse me in - ability to spell, no spell check on pprune!

[galdian]

From a couple of sources I believe previously quoted base + hours + retention deal is correct, $112,000 base plus $72.00 per flying hour plus $30,000.00 bonus after 3 years.
Super paid at end of financial year based on that years gross pay.

[Aussie]

I hope thats for FO mate... :suspect:

[Socket]

Reported in todays NT News.


DARWIN is in the running to become the second hub in Australia for Tiger Airways to base its expanding fleet.
The low-cost airline announced yesterday that huge demand from the Australian public in its first week of operations prompted the search for a second hub.
Tiger bases its Australian operations in Melbourne but is now on the hunt for an additional base to house up to five aircraft permanently.
The move would also require crews and ground support to service and maintain the aircraft.
Spokesman Matt Hobbs said Darwin would be considered because of its established links to the airline.
"Any destination that is already a part of Tiger's route network will be considered."


http://www.ntnews.com.au/article/2007/12/14/2852_ntnews.html

[Buster Hyman]

From what I've heard, they are having enough trouble crewing their existing flights! Not sure if its because of crew numbers, or the people who are doing-da-crewing!!!;)

[galdian]

No that's LHS.

Everyone can do their own sums but if you pick a figure (say 900 hours/year) and assume you'll do your 3 years then you're looking at a gross of $186,800 (equivalent $10,000 bonus per year included), tax around $64,000 leaves a net $122,800/year $10,233/month.

Throw super (9%??) on top of the gross.

Better/worse/same as J* and VB?? No idea.

And I may have to stand corrected - the hourly rate may be $73 rather than $72 - not 100% sure.

[Keg]

Geez, that's only $170K for 800 hours per annum. Not paying super until the end of the year is a fair earner for the company also!

[MAX]

No seriously. Thats the FO salary right?:confused:

MAX:cool:

[VH-JJW]

Yes that is what I have been told as well.

Not to mention:

Pay for car parking
Pay Own LOL
Pay for own uniform
Pay for endorsements

and the classic:

For a coffee on board ........$3.00

for a crew sandwich............$6.00

And yes they are still getting applications :ugh:

So much for raising the bar :{

[dreamjob]

Wow, paying for crew meals/beverages! That's a new low.. :eek:

[chimbu warrior]

I'm no expert on the matter (and I don't work for Tiger), but vaguely recall something from the Insurance and Superannuation Commission that employers were required to forward the employer contributions to the employee's nominated fund at intervals no less than quarterly. An employer cannot (as I understand it) withold contributions for longer than 3 months.

It seems more likely that they would pay 9% of base salary to the fund on a quarterly basis, and then perhaps "top it up" at the end of the year depending on gross earnings. Interestingly, employers are only required to pay 9% of base pay (in this case 9% of $112k as per the figures above), and I find it therefore somewhat surprising that an LCC would pay more than the legal minimum super contributions.

[Ken Borough]

Wow, paying for crew meals/beverages!

What's so novel about buying your own food? I would venture to say that 99% of workers provide for their own meals. Why couldn't or shouldn't crew take their own tucker, especially on domestic services? :ugh:

You blokes are amazing. If not complaining about provided crew meals, then you complain about having to provide them. The airlines can't win.

[galdian]

Chimbu:
How the actual payment is broken up to meet any regulatory requirements I have no idea; all I have heard is that the super paid is based on the annual gross.
Certainly would seems strange for any company to pay more than they have to; once again just what I have heard,

Keg:
Working on 800 hours a year?? Truly written like one from that dying breed - a legacy carrier lad! :ok:
You state $170,000 - of course if you add super you're up to $185,000 gross.

Most people who have commented on Tiger expect them to get their pound of flesh; 800 hours might make a QF pilot break out in a sweat however might be perceived as "luxury" for a LCC.
Suspect anticipating more like 900-950 hours per year for a Tiger driver would be more realistic.

And yes - seems there are a number of daily costs that would have to be factored in as VH-JJW mentioned.

Regardless it would be interesting for someone who really gives a sh*t to sit down, grab the agreements/awards/whatever they're called today, pick a figure (I'd suggest 900 hours as we are looking at LCC's not legacy carriers - again sorry Keg, maybe you shouldn't play this time :() but pick whatever figure you want and see what the pay would be from the 3 LCC's.
That old comparing apples with apples thing!

[Boomerang]

Could any of the new Tiger guys post what a typical roster looks like? Is it similar to Vueling / Ryanair / Easyjet? Ie 5 on, 4 off, 5 on, 3 off?

[ScottyDoo]

Excuse me in - ability to spell, no spell check on pprune

No problem - honourable captain-san onree need speek Ingrish to fry Ti-GAH Air Rines. :rolleyes:

[Gnadenburg]

Why do Australian pilots add their super to gross income?

A habit started at the Hammo a few years ago. By young, underpaid Virgin Blue drivers sexing up their wage to all within earshot. :)

[galdian]

And if anyone wanted to compare the LCC's and leave any super out - fine.
Once again as long as we're comparing apples with apples.

It would be intersting, however, to confirm the basis for the super contribution from each of the LCC's.

Gnads- all the above does not change the fact that you are indeed correct about those who "sexed up" their salaries. :ok:

[EPIRB]

Galdian, I think you'll find a lot of Qantas pilots are sitting on the 850 to 870 hour mark.

[Keg]

galdian, dress it up any way you like, $170K for 800 hours isn't a great deal. Another $7200 for 900 hours isn't any better. An extra $3600 on top of that for 950 hours still doesn't make it any more appealling. I've spoken to a number of our Qantas 737 guys who regularly fly in excess of 900 hours (on the dispensation) and they talk about the lack of time at home (unless right at the top of the seniority pile that month and getting the PER returns) and the long, long days.

Personally I'd prefer to work the 800 and have a life outside of the job.....it also means more commands and more crew.

[UNOME]

Well the Tiger boys had their Christmas party at the Tulla Airport club the other night. They certainly can drink like a decent bunch of blokes! :ok:

Plenty of chat there about all sorts of problems that any start up would normally (and abnormally) face however, all seem very happy to be part of something that will be very big indeed.

The other chat was from the money men about the future.

There is no doubt that despite the smear campaign from QF (and most of all those puerile ex-AN chaps at JQ) achieving the AOC on time and under budget (the most professional proving flight CASA has ever seen) has given the Tiger management team the nod of approval from SIA and CASA. :D

The four bases will be MEL, OOL, DRW and PER. There is already 50 brand new 320s allocated to Oz and as many 330/ 350s as is needed to cover domestic and International link ups as required.

On the pay side, average pay (excluding 9% super paid on gross) based on 850hrs is $190K for Capt and $130K for F/O. There is 30K/ 20K bonus for 3yr completion. They have it in writing that increases will occur once the ramp up begins.

Bottom line was that there is no shortage of money from SIA, and the bigger picture is that SIA is very happy to at last have its big foot in the Aussie door.

All sounds reasonable to me and happy for the boys to be back home.:)

[VH-JJW]

UNOME - hope what you are reporting is true, certainly it is a whole lot more optimistic than the recent info I recieved.

No pay increases unless the market requires it (more applications from ex pats than they can poke a stick at)
No widebodies.

I believe that SQ are looking at the big picture here, and it is not much different to the one that Air NZ stole from Swanston street back in 2001, except this time the corrupt Koru and Helingrad will not have anything to do with it.

[wirgin blew]

Why do Australian pilots add their super to gross income?

The non airline salary jobs that I have had have included super in the package because I am assuming that they have determined how much they will pay you in total. Whether you are getting the money now or later it still is the amount your employer can afford to pay you.
Also I think you will find banks will now include super as savings when they asses you for a loan because in the worst case scenario they will be able to get that from you if you should go bankrupt.

[Gnadenburg]

Fair enough.

So seven years ago. My base salary, plus overtime, plus factored DTA allowances with respect to their tax free nature and last but not least, superannuation. I was on near 160K a year as an FO in Oz.

Considering inflation, the cost of a house in the CBD and stockmarket appreciation in the last seven years. My wage translated in todays dollars would be 220K a year- for an FO!

My, my.........

[galdian]

Keg - please don't misunderstand me, someone asked what the rates for Tiger are and I responded; seems unome has different figures so who's correct?? Got me stuffed. I am certainly not saying that LCC T&C's are adequate.

I would still like someone who gives a sh*t to do some comparison on LCC pays for X hours as that is where the majority (not sole, but majority) of the growth seems to be hence that is where the majority of jobs will appear for those so interested.

I agree - the money Vs hours Vs lifestyle equation has changed for the worse, there used to be two airlines in Australia that had a pretty good mix and now there's only one.

Will LCC management ever allow (or be forced to by the market) substantial improvements in T&C's??
I would suggest an answer along the lines of "only when hell freezes over", but maybe that's just me. :O

I am simply an interested observer of what is happening in the real world.

[coaldemon]

So take 20,000 for factored DTA ( I love factored DTA it is the old I spent all my DTA at the bar and dinner but it was really worth $200 to me as I factored it so there must be another $100 here somewhere) and 13,000 for Super from 160,000 gives you a wage of 127,000 roughly. Factored for inflation (as no one factors for house prices for god's sake) at less than 3% a year for 7 years on your base salary which would have been around 95,000 for 660 hours flying means that your base wage would now be 116,000 + overtime if there was any and oh you would still be an FO. Sounds wonderful.

You will find that governement organisations mostly advertise in package amounts as that is how it is approved internally.

[Trustworthy]

Would have thought that relying on SIA to provide the comfortable unbelly to the Tiger's woes was a bit overly optimistic - couldn't make up their mind to buy AN, paid too much for VS etc and TR claims they are not involved?

[JetRacer]

UNOME wrote:

On the pay side, average pay (excluding 9% super paid on gross) based on 850hrs is $190K for Capt and $130K for F/O. There is 30K/ 20K bonus for 3yr completion. They have it in writing that increases will occur once the ramp up begins

UNOME, is what you call the 'average pay' the base pay, or pay after all the add-ons (flight pay, allowances etc), excluding Super?

As an aside, I have never known a salary figure to include super, only the gross amount you will get paid, then the 9% super is on top ..... :O:E

[UNOME]

Average gross pay including everything, but excluding super.

TRUSTWORTHY

Big call to state that SIA couldn't make up their mind about Ansett. :ugh: You don't remember that "Trustworthy" NZ PM (in her 737) being blocked by angry ground staff in MEL??

The positive "what if's" (for AN folk at least) had SIA not been blocked by the colluding Howard and Clark are endless. I do believe however, that QF would have taken a huge hit.

What TR woes are you referring to? Do you mean the J* staff caught in the act of disrupting Tiger flights?

[mppgf]

UNOME,
Whats this about J* staff being caught in the act of disrupting Tiger flights.
What were they caught doing ?
Where were they doing it ?
and Who caught them ?

[Boomerang]

Talk about off topic / thread creep.

Anyway any update on rosters / days on/off?

[Buster Hyman]

What were they caught doing ? They were found in one of the engines with a hammer.

Where were they doing it ? OOL

and Who caught them ? Trevor, Brian & Monty.

What else do you need to know?;)

[Enema Bandit's Dad]

Did they face criminal charges? :bored:

[Launch_code_Harry]

You might want to be careful with accusations like the above unless YOU can prove them in court. Your identity can be determined extremely easy with a court subpoena.

[Trevor the lover]

Keg et al,

Finally I'm gunna say it. Fine, if the conditions aren't good enough, don't apply. I know you will say "I'm Not." well fine again - please stop telling everyone else how bad it is. That is what is on the market at the moment. Some will take it some won't.

Just sick of hearing - "what no food on board" GREAT - best thing could ever happen to me being forced to bring my own healthy lunch (like 90% of the Oz workforce) rather than being lazy yet again and eating the oil and cholestorol laced massed produced slop.
- "what, pay for own parking" - okay, that is definitely a slide back, but in isolation $70 per month salary sacrificed ain't a Prince's sum. Not enough to stop one taking the job.

Granted - there are some cuts here - but if that is the difference between making the airline succesful, then so be it. I can accept it.

If you are happy in your job, GREAT, I truly mean it, i don't want to see guys miserable, but please stop telling everyone else why they should be miserable.

Qantas may be our last true legacy carrier, but they are a pack of C--ts. Not the pilots, cabing crew, lames, baggies etc - I mean the Taleban arseholes running the show. (by the way - I'm not going to tell guys why they shouldn't take a job there)

[Capt Wally]

..........Tiger crew paying for the once feebies !:-)
......seems to me that in order to be cost effective & be a 'player' in the dog eat dog airfare war something has got to give..............they can't skimp on fuel, they can't skimp on maintenance but they can keep costs down where possible & that's the human element of the operation.
If you knock back a potential job 'cause of minor things like this then you are a very bitter & twisted person & will be watching yr mates fly overhead whilst you still pay for yr coffee at ground level !:)

Just out of curiosity what employer outside of the airlines serves food to their employees during working hrs? None that I can think of other than perhaps the mining industry & that's mainly 'cause of circumstances.
Still I don't agree with paying for some of the essentials but like I said, something has got to give !:)
No doubt some here will jump up & down about what I've posted but we are living in totally different times these days where the 'user pays' concept is running rife !

Capt Wally

[Trevor the lover]

Hey Wally, seems we were writing the same stuff at the same time.

GNADENBURG - mate you are obviously a Mr Money-is-everything type of guy. Well save it all buddy - you are gunna need it for the lung transplant in 20 years time due to the HK cesspit. You do put so many posts on here about conditions back in OZ and how bad they are. Okay we have the message, you love Hk, CX and the HK air. By the way - are you still trotting round the airport with your cap on thinking CX is the bees knees?

[Gnadenburg]

I mean the Taleban arseholes running the show

Trevor is right! The Taleban is taking over at Qantas.

Type "ISLAM" into the FMGC on a QF A330.

Hey Trevor. Is it true Tiger pilots will have to buy their own water?

[Keg]

Trevor, Wally, I just love the concept of 'bring your own lunch' and how the airline is somehow doing you a favour by doing that. Personally I like the fact that a 'quality' airline feels it's important for it's crew to be adequately nourished and hydrated during flight and that this 'cost' is considered to be part of an airline business. It's got nothing to do with bringing your own meal 'like 90% of the rest of the country' and everything to do with being able to store/transport food appropriately. So with that in mind, let's consider the following.

When I sign on at 0500 in MEL after over-nighting just how am I supposed to have brought my own lunch with me? How do I do that for the four-five day domestic and Tasman trips typical of QF 767 and 737 drivers? I sign on in Sydney and pack a ham and salad sandwich, how is it kept hygienically cold until I want to eat it at lunch or dinner time? I'm doing MEL-PER-MEL with an aircraft change in PER and wanting to take some fruit with me, can I do this without breaching WA quarantine rules?

So sure, it's great that you get to pack your own lunch.

[UNOME]

Launch code Harry

No need for me to prove anything. Apparently some J* staff boarding late (after check in), causing disruptions and then demanding to get off. Aerocare staff simply recognised them from working at the airport.

Some pretty nasty damage being caused to the interiors also and given that there are only four new aircraft, the impact is all the more pronounced.

Interesting that our (QF) short haul aircraft are not subject to the same...ticket price=customer standards?

[neville_nobody]

None that I can think of other than perhaps the mining industry & that's mainly 'cause of circumstances.

Exactly the point why you SHOULDN"T take your own lunch.

I cannot believe that people are so naive. Most office work places have fridges, microwaves, etc where you can reheat or store food correctly. When you make your lunch at 0400 how can be sure it is in adequate condition to eat 7-8 hours later?

If Tiger have a diversion or pilot incapacitation due food poisoning, I think you will find work safe people and probably CASA (if they had any intestinal
fortitude ) will be all over them like a rash.

[Capt Wally]

...."TTL" must be a mind reading 2 crew thingy !:):)
......Keg I hardly think that any airline would expect their crew to go unnourished. The food is there supplied by the LCC airline such as Tigers, there's no need to prepare it in advance for say an early start if you don't wish to or starve for that matter it's just that you have to pay for it!:) That's the issue I am refering to here not the fact that there is nothing available from the employer.

I've worked in various industries over the years mostly shift work & have managed to plan ahead where food is concerned.

You where 'spoon' fed when a baby, now I think you are responsible for yr own keep as a grown up!:)
The words "you" here are generic not aimed at any one person, I say that before someone goes off on a tangent here !:)

Capt Wally:)

[Gnadenburg]

Trevor.

Settle down mate! You have the wrong bloke!

Like you, I don't have a cap. :}

[Lord Flashhart]

Trevor,

Isnt Tiger a bit of risk for long term employment? A bit riskier than your job in Dragon dont you think?

[Trevor the lover]

Keg

1. yes I do have to be adequately nourished and hydrated - but guess what, I am a big boy and I am old enough to bring a bottle of water - just like I did 25 years ago as an electrician. Its not that hard.

2. Yes, signing on at 0500 after an overnight yadda yadda - yes, impossible to bring your own lunch. BUT the comments are about Tiger where thre are no overnights. So whilst the argument does apply in your case, it doesn't apply in the context of this thread.

Neville Nobody

What a load of twaddle. So I make a sandwich and a salad, and in 7 or 8 hours it may make me very sick. What a very long bow you are drawing. Are you risking your kids by sending them off to scholl with a packed lunch.

Gnadenburg
My very humble apologies - yes I think I got the wrong guy.

Flashart
No!

[neville_nobody]

What a very long bow you are drawing. Are you risking your kids by sending them off to scholl with a packed lunch.

Again I cannot believe the naivety going on here.

Firstly your kid's time frame is only say 4 hours as opposed to 6+. Secondly the kid gets food poisoning the kids has a lie down and goes home.

Captain get food poisoning keels over, you have just put the lives of the pax at a greater risk. You now have a single pilot airliner for the sake of some food.

The guy in the office block can walk down the street and get food from many vendors. Anyone who suggest that taking your own food to work for shiftworking pilots is a good idea really has rocks in their heads.

[Trevor the lover]

Stop speaking euphemistically - the real problem is the run down of conditions. just come out and say it and stop the trash of suggesting that taking your own food to work is gunna kill you. What rubbish.

Munt - sounds like you hate life as a pilot. All those things you have said are such horrible crosses to bear.

[galdian]

Updating having seen in black and white (and I believe all are on same):
- retainer $112,000, flight pay $73.00 per hour, super on yearly gross, $30,000 bonus after 3 years, nothing extra; left seat.

I use "retainer" as I feel the pay structure makes a lot of diffrence regarding super.
If you have base + overtime (pornstar/VB??) then it is quite possible your yearly pay could only ever be your base (OK unlikely but in theory not impossible.)
If you have retainer + flight hours unless you never fly (luxury! :O ) your "pay" will always be a combination of retainer plus flight.

Just a thought.

My understanding:
- car parking flat $70 per month at ML Airport staff carpark;
- no food but can buy cabin food with 40% off (same as pornstar??)
- to join require type rating (at own expense if required), day 1 of Tiger (ground schools etc) start on retainer pay, when lose safety F/O on line training pay becomes retainer + flight pay;
- 25 days annual leave plus substitute public holidays (11?) so 36 days annual leave.

Expectations:
- 4 aircraft now, another next month, next delivery dates of ordered aircraft October '08;
- looking for a couple (?) of extra lease aircraft if available;
- aiming to fly pilots at the max legal (great theory but means 950 +/- hours per year reasonable for calculations);
- expecting/hoping experienced captains from Vietnam Airlines/Dragon etc will seriously consider after things settle down and "ramping up" begins;
- intention is to roster max hours per day so expect double OOL (8 hrs) or PER (7 hrs) or DRW (8 hrs); at worst MCY and HBA (6 hrs). Of course always will be "bits and pieces" of flying, unavoidable.

Present cancellations difficulties with cabin crew numbers rather than tech crew.
SQ apparently are allowing 3-5 years for airline to become established/self sufficient, after that?????????
OOL a "definate possible" for base, others "maybe possibles."

The pay claimed to be better than pornstar/VB - yes/no/maybe??

Cheers :ok:

[Tankengine]

Trevor,
I am curious how you fit enough water for a days flying into a 90ml container so you can fit it into a 500ml clear plastic bag to get it through security??!:ugh:

Not been home or to Europe for a while?:zzz:

The point about all these discussions about in some way petty things is that companies are pushing the limits in screwing staff compared to established carriers and some people will do anything for a job.

As somebody said, "the market will decide!"

Lets hope the market grows some balls! QF pay is the market standard here, as is SQ regarding 380 pay [744 + 7%]!!!:ok:

If the US$ goes back to 47c/A$ then there will be a huge exodus away, enjoy it while it lasts! Alternatively EK etc will have to raise salaries / move away from US$ contracts.

[FlyingBuddha]

Lets hope the market grows some balls!

:D

Well said.

[windytown]

On the question of meals. lunches, offices etc

Most office staff only work during set hours where the only meal required is lunch which is an easy one to prepack if you want, and which is well suited to buying takeaway.

A past employer of mine, who had numerous work sites had the policy of no staff cafes in areas where there were a good number of food outlets, but to have them in sites where there was a limited number. They did not want staff a remote sites spending large amounts of time driving to the nearest decent cafe or coffee shop.

Also my personal view is that from an airline's perspective it would be cost effective to provide pilots with meals, simply because many pilots value it a lot, and its more visible to say you include meals than to say your package is an extra $1300 a year.

Also does an LCC operating with many flights at odd times of the day, a tight turnaround, and 3 plus hour sectors like Mel- Perth want pilots ducking off to buy lunch on a 25 minute turnaround or feeling grumpy because they are hungry or only had snack food for lunch?

[mppgf]

UNOME,

Remarks like the ones you have posted are ridiculous.How many Jet* staff do you think are willing to cause criminal damage to the aircraft of another airline ? If they did and were caught they would certainly have no backing from the company.They would be on their own just as you are when you make libelous statements such as the above.
I have passed on your post to the appropriate people at J*.

[Slasher]

With this wrecking the interior bizzo I cant believe even the
lo-cost pax cattle would turn there pens into pig stys. Still if
anyones ever taken the Southern Aurora...

[joepatroni]

Capt Wally you say they are not skimping on maintenance but Aerocare baggage handlers are doing the pre departure walkround. Industry leading stuff.

[otto the grot]

Now common hosser . Play nice. Thats not quite correct is it?

[Capt Wally]

............."hosser" I was more refering to the major maintenance rather than some walk around. That area is, even tho strained at times something that cannot be skimped on, if it where then the pages here would be all about why our ozzy airliners are falling out of the sky !:)

capt Wally:)

[Dunnybudgee]

Do you really expect anybody to take you seriously with blatant BS like that?

If thats the level of intellectual opposition Tiger faces in OZ they will surely succeed! :)

I see Tiger OZ is starting more routes in January and now has 4 new A320's on the ramp, with another one rumoured on the way soon. About time their competitors did more than sling mud on PPRUNE if they want to retain some share of the market.

[CheckEssential]

Hosser,

Get with the times man! Baggage crew are trained to close any cargo doors that
need to be opened or closed. Any 'maintenance' item will be supported by John Holland Engineering. Vent your BS somewhere else!

[mozza1972]

Aerocare carry out the full reciept /departure turnaround at Perth for Tiger ,JHAS on call for any "maint "issues, good luck ringing them ....Tis only a matter of time.............eagerly awaiting an incident...........

[genex]

Mozza

What a nasty little mind..."eagerly awaiting an incident"....many, many major and minor airlines operate daily all over the world to weird and wonderful ports with contract engineers. It all works.

Keep you snide vitriol for the playground and let professionals get on with it.

[mozza1972]

Genex ,its not the engineers im worried about its the ground handlers im concerned will cause an incident..
So thanks for your wise and insightfull input....GFYS ..

[Short_Circuit]

genex,
MOST of the time................:ugh:

[genex]

I was only concerned with the "eagerly awaiting an incident" thing....as for outsourcing, as a routine philosophy, it sucks. For one off charters etc, fine of course.

[Over and gout]

its the ground handlers im concerned will cause an incident..

I don't see how you came to that conclusion.........

[topend3]

it is quite common for ground handling companies to provide receipt/dispatch functions, it happens all over the world, i cant see the problem, the crew will soon know if there is a problem and the engineering will be called.

some people cant seem to handle the difference between tiger and all the other start-ups, that being that tiger will last!!! deal with it...

[Howard Hughes]

Baggage crew are trained to close any cargo doors that
need to be opened or closed.
I was closing doors on Qantas aircraft as a catering contractor 10 years ago, hardly ground breaking stuff, nor a threat to safety...:rolleyes:

Opening doors however is left to cabin crew, as they are the only ones who can confirm that slides are de-activated!

[Metro man]

There is a page on the ECAM display which shows if the doors are closed and armed. It is also part of the pre start check list. Virgin Blue pilots do preflight inspections on turn arounds.

What's new with Tiger ????

[Capt Wally]

...............oh boy there's some angry people in here, shame aviation brings out the worst in some !:bored:
Look at the end of the day the Capt is totally responsible for the condition of his ship prior to departure. He has the ultimate job of deciding who does what. Sure there are SOPS etc to follow & ground staff to do some tasks but I know that I am the only one that can be trusted when it comes to critical items prior to despatch:)
................now can we refrain from being so childish here for some, afterall pilots/engineers are meant to be professionals, shame we don't get paid as such !:bored:

CW:)

[SeldomFixit]

Howard - quite the opposite in fact. CC opening doors from the inside is not, nor should be encouraged, lest thou hast fire melting your panties....:=

[Keg]

Geez. Can we all agree that it depends on the aircraft type? I know that for some years the QF 737 crew opened the doors- they may still do- because opening it from the outside wouldn't automatically disarm the door. Compare this with the 767 where the doors are always opened from the outside so that it disarms the door in case the crew stuffed up. It appears from this thread that the DJ 737 crew may in fact open the doors from the inside themselves. More power to them.

Can we move onto something slightly more important? :ugh:

[topend3]

howard is in fact partly correct in that the crew open the door to the "cracked" position from which the ground staff open the door fully...

[Ozgrade3]

As someone who has 9 years of "throwing bags" in the past I think I should add some points.

Firstly, being a baggage handler does NOT automatically mean you are a hairy neanderthal. You would be surprised at the diversity of skills out there on the ramp. Ex sparkies, trades of all kinds. My team at Impulse many years ago now had 11,000 hrs flight between us, a few had turbine time. I myself threw bags till I had 1500 hrs.

I did everything from the honey cart to pushbacks, reciept and despatch + trims in my time. Its all no big deal if you have the required training. Any one on the ramp with more than a couple of years experiance will very quickly spot anything that doesnt look right, as long as engineering backup is close at hand.

As for the old hands, you would be quite surprised at their level of knowledge. You dont spend 20 years in the game and not learn a thing or two.

[mozza1972]

Agree with most sentiments posted regard ground handlers with experience, but knowing the turnover of Aerocare staff in the port at which I work anyone with more than 12 months experience on the ramp is very,very rare, working around aircraft and the knowledge of a trained and licenced LAME is vastly different, but good luck to aircrew that are happy for that level of experience to operate the r/d ..Once again JHAS have good personel for the job and it seems this is the way airlines are happy to operate (nil engineering coverage or inspections).
Love seeing the crew run around the aircraft at night with a AA powered penlight .......JMHO:ugh:

[Boomerang]

Who really cares who opens what doors, on which aircraft, with what operator? I am surprised how much thread creep there is in D&G, especially with Tiger and Jetstar. Lets close this topic and open a new one :D

[Kiwiguy]

Capt Wally you say they are not skimping on maintenance but Aerocare baggage handlers are doing the pre departure walkround. Industry leading stuff.


This is kinda funny to me... "industry leading stuff"

Until 2002 i was a baggage handler at Air NZ and the baggage foreman would do the walk around inspections before pushback and often the pushbacks were handled by the foreman too.

Shucks hasn't led to disasters that I know of ?

[joepatroni]

My post indicated that Aerocare ground handlers do a full walkaround of the a/c before departure. This is true and have seen them 'perform' the walkaround. So 'not quite correct' is..... not quite correct mate!!!!
It is more than just checking the doors are shut. My concern is that they will miss a potentially improtant deviation from normal condition of the aircraft due to lack of correct training and awareness.

[Short_Circuit]

??? Bag chuckers inspecting A/C for serviceability!!! :}
I know where this will end up, and it aint good. :eek:

Do bag chuckers inspect OZJet A/C prior flt?????????? :mad: ???????

[vee1-rotate]

Tiger just got a pasting on A Current Affair....!!

[SIUYA]

vee1-rotate............

Tiger just got a pasting on A Current Affair....!!

So???? Your somewhat cryptic post is hardly helpful information for those of us who weren't 'just' in the fortunate position of being able to be inside in the cool and watching ACA, and as we're 'none the wiser' to what you're alluding to.............perhaps you'd care to elaborate??????

I don't mean to be rude V1R, but your post is hardly what I'd call 'informative'. :(

[mozza1972]

Sorry that you were unable to view and apparently it is upon us to inform you ,so here goes ,Tiger basically got a pasting on the way they have handled delayed ,cancelled and general customer service issues.I didnt catch the spokesmans name but he didnt come across at all well,more of and he stated ,"This is our level of service dont expect much and if you want more ,go elsewhere"
Not a good wrap at all and knowing the way they man the operation at the port at which I work for check in ,loading ect .I expected as much.....But good luck to them and all involved....

[Buster Hyman]

This is our level of service dont expect much and if you want more ,go elsewhere
:D:D:D:D
Finally! No more piss-farting around! This is what LCC's are all about! It's about time one of them stopped pussy footing around & told the punters exactly what they should expect.

[Metro man]

"This is our level of service dont expect much and if you want more ,go elsewhere"
Exactly right. These Centre Link card carriers, dressed by Best and Less, driving XF Falcons, living in Housing Comission acommodation and buying supermarket own brand groceries need to lower their expectations.
With the ticket prices charged there isn't the margin for much in the way of customer service and back up. If an aircraft goes U/S there isn't a spare one sitting around to take its place, with 30 minute turn around times delays snowball and cannot be made up.
High passenger to crew ratio leaves no time for the little touches that are routine with full service airlines. The cabn crew are there for your safety, to get you on and off as quickly as posssible and hopefully sell you something, not to make you feel special.
If you aren't prepared to sacrifice a bit for the savings then buy a QF business class ticket, enjoy free drinks and snacks in the QANTAS Club lounge, higher baggage allowance, better check in times, frequent flyer points, ticket flexibility, 2X2 seating on board, staff call you by your name, serve you a nice choice of meals, nice in flight entertainment etc
You don't expect a $50/night motel to compare with a five star hotel do you ?

[Dunnybudgee]

Lucky enough to see the ACA show. Thats not exactly what the guy said. But I guess there was a similar sentiment. Seeing one of the pax had something like 50kgs of bags and then got pis*ed that they wanted to charge her excess didn't exactly win me over. :confused:

A mate tells me their planes are mostly full and judging by the pasting they gave Valuair and Joke* Asia in Singapore, and the resources behind them, I would imagine they will stay the course down here. They might be different but they are no muggins.

It took Europe a while to awallow the true LCC model but now look at Ryanair etc. People there know when you by a bus ticket you don't expect a limo. Likewise if you don't show up at the bus stop in time it leaves without ya - SURPRISE! if you need extra services or want to bring mondo baggage, then guess what? Go somewhere else and pay the extra money... :ugh:

[SIUYA]

Thanks mozza1972...........update appreciated!

After reading Dunnybudgee's explanation, it seems like the passengers have got bugger-all to complain about, doesn't it?

[Dunnybudgee]

Oh sarcasm, don't ya love it. I'm sure there are some reasons to gripe, airlines seldom run without problems, big white rats included. But lets not forget this outfit is in start up mode! So its bound to have a few teething problems with pax handling... :ouch:

As I recall VB and Joke* had their share of pax dramas (and still do). The media loved it and always scrambled to find some loud mouthed feral to fill a spot at 6 o'clock. :D

Had a gander whilst passing the T4 ramp this arvo, saw a JHAS engineering ute and Aerocare folk around one of their buses. Not sure who does what, but seeming as Joke* uses JHAS for engineering and VB uses Aerocare for ground services I reckon you'd be either brave or stupid to suggest they fall short of the mark safety wise...

Just a thought! :oh:

[Tiger01]

Does anyone know what the loads on Tiger have been like so far? Especially Routes like ROK - MEL and MKY - MEL.

[air doris]

You can check yourself, just buy a dummy ticket, it shows you seats available

[Tiger01]

Ha 10 people! Must have been very personalised service on that flight, good to hear that isnt the norm but.

[Tiger01]

air doris,
How does buying a dummy ticket show the seats available ?

[apacau]

Air Doris- you're assuming everyone pre-allocates seats, which they don't.

[coaldemon]

:}I Think Doris means the total number on board not their actual seat allocation

[B772]

Gnadenburg. Approx. 35 odd years ago when the top marginal tax rate was 60% QF pilots asked if they could salary sacrifice using Super as the offset.

The Government owned airline at the time agreed and the Tax Office gave the pilots a dispensation on the amount of Super that could be accrued at retirement. This was 10.76 times your final average salary (FAS) over the preceeding 3 years. The limit for the rest of the workforce with a few exceptions was 7 times FAS.


BTW. QF pilots at the time were the envy of the world salary wise due to the fact 1 AUD = 1.5 USD.