Merged: Qantas Cadets [Archive]

Nadsy

21st Dec 2007, 09:35

airjordan: I finished the Verbal well within time. I had sat the psychs in 2005, and remember doing v.badly in the numerical then... not because I found it hard, but because I didn't realise how time critical it was. This time I got through about 80% of the q's. Spatial and diagramatic, proabably about 75% (got 1 of each on the two different sittings. Being an 'oldie', and not having my head in math from day to day, I took 4 days of work to hammer myself with numerical q's. Although you have to have an inate apptitude, practise can improve your speed. You can also learn techniques for the spatial. I thin kdiagramatic is again innate.

21391401: I got my CPL in Sept 2006, and have done 20 hours since (more cirumstances than choice). Work gives me the opportunity to fly, but also gets in the way sometimes. Commitment is something I expect they are going to question in the interview.

21391401

21st Dec 2007, 16:18

NADSY .... thx for sharing, good luck with the process .... remember that you would not have got an interview invite if they do not deem you and your background already suitable ..... merry xmas

Numbers Up

21st Dec 2007, 22:27

Has the flying side of the cadet scheme been finalised - anyone one know what schools, a/c types to be used???

yellowmellow

22nd Dec 2007, 02:12

I got a letter from QF today.... UNFORTUNATELY, BLAH BLAH.... But it does say that I am 'eligible to apply for future Cadet Programs'. Does this mean that I didn't totally bum out? Or does everyone get the same?

I was under the impression that you can only try once or a maximum of twice?

cudza101

22nd Dec 2007, 05:22

Numbers Up,

When I asked about the commercial program a few months ago they said that they'd be using Adelaide Flight Training and I presume this hasn't changed. Whilst I don't know what they plan to use for the cadets, AFT - according to the website - is in the process of acquiring 7 Twin Stars so you'd think that most of the multi-engine training would be done on them.

YM,

Bad luck on receiving the letter - my understanding is that no one loses the ability to re-apply but this may only relate to people who later apply for DE positions. May I ask the stage at which you got the news?

alexthepilot

23rd Dec 2007, 07:50

airjordan: ye it sucks, stupid weather cant gte NVFR in, im actually contemplating on going to Perth (i live in briss) for 3 or 4 days in a week or so to get my flight test in! i know its expensive option but dont want to risk getting rolled back....i also got my ATPL theory starting on 7th of JAN so that will keep me busy if havne't heard back or been denied entry!

yellowmellow

23rd Dec 2007, 23:53

Anyone actually failed the first time around and go in the next? It would be interesting to see how many actually got through..

cudza101 I was applying for the Swinburne Associate Degree. I got to only the second stage.

BUSH PILOT

24th Dec 2007, 04:15

Hi every body, just catching up on the latest updates, I'm also applying for the winter intake for the commercial course, but have only just realised that they are now training in Adelaide!! Does anyone know anything about the set up, whether cadets will be accommodated in the 'college' or whether it's up to the individuals to find a place to live? Any info would be great, and also any news about interviews/tests for those going for the winter course.
Thanks, and good luck to all
Bush Pilot

3-8-Echo

24th Dec 2007, 10:39

Bush Pilot -

This isn't first hand information, but from multiple reliable sources, there are dorm rooms at the Adelaide flying school the cadets share, apparently its quite nice, they've got a gym, a swimming pool (or so I've heard) and all the meals are provided. About $6000 on top of the already quoted figures for the length of the cadet course.

alexthepilot

24th Dec 2007, 11:47

just heard back from qantas via snail mail wasnt good :ugh:, least im eligible to re-apply for future courses....:(

Keg

24th Dec 2007, 12:49

3-8 Echo.

It's been 15 years since I graduated from FTA so I suspect things may have changed some. This is the gen I have on the place and I accept zero responsibility for the accuracy of it.

Accommodation: Each cadet has their own room with a bed and desk. There are four rooms to a shared lounge room and bathroom. Two of these dorms generally adjoin each other and share the laundry facilities. We all pitched in and bought a decent size TV and ended up with all eight of us sharing the one lounge room. The other one was used for storage of all sorts of things...push bikes, footies, random junk, etc.

Gym: I hope it's improved. When we were there the demand dropped and I think it became a prayer room for the Indonesian Muslims for a while. Perhaps it's back to being a gym again!

Swimming pool exists but it's pretty small. I hear they did put in a swimming jet so you can swim 'laps' in it and go for a while.

Not sure how much they charge these days (accommodation and messing was free when I was down there.....as was most of the flight training but that's another story completely) but the mess is adequate. Quite large. Has a bar area as well. You'll get sick of eating every meal there and will want some kind of change. Head towards the city.....it's not safe going north! ;)

OhForSure

25th Dec 2007, 09:17

Lets talk flight tests... Have any of you Autumn guys done your flight test yet? If so, would you mind PM'ing me? Cheers to anybody who can help. :ok:

3-8-Echo

26th Dec 2007, 12:25

Lets talk flight tests... Have any of you Autumn guys done your flight test yet? If so, would you mind PM'ing me? Cheers to anybody who can help. :ok:

And me, too!

For anyone still interested in the living conditions at FTA, all the information can be found here (http://www.flighttrainingadelaide.com/commercial-aviation-training/infrastructure-of-fta/campus-life/) and here (http://www.flighttrainingadelaide.com/commercial-aviation-training/infrastructure-of-fta/residential-facilities/)...

nickaussie

2nd Jan 2008, 08:16

Hey all,

i've been looking on and off at this topic as I will be applying for the swinburne bachelor's degree for the '09 cadet course.

bad luck for all of those who didn't quite make it, and congrats for all of those who have so far been going well!

for those in my position, what should i expect and are they any pointers that would help those like me with getting that edge for the prospective stages?

cheers,

Nick

bomp10

6th Jan 2008, 00:09

Lets talk flight tests... Have any of you Autumn guys done your flight test yet? If so, would you mind PM'ing me? Cheers to anybody who can help. :ok:

Hi Everyone,

If anybody has any information on the Level 2 Cadet Flight Test, I would also appreciate some feedback. PM me with any details.

Cheers

21391401

21st Jan 2008, 10:23

How is everyone progressing .......... I am a Comm Winter applicant and have only had one email saying they have record number of applications and everyone will receive a response by end of Feb ........

Nadsy, have you had that interview yet??

cessna_dave

1st Feb 2008, 04:22

21391401, i am doing the interview in 2 wks for the comm winter program. have you done this yet?

any advice much appreciated! :)

21391401

1st Feb 2008, 06:17

sorry dave - you are many steps ahead of me - good luck

apollo85

1st Feb 2008, 07:17

yeah a relo of mine got accepted the other day in the associate degree - preety slack of them to not call back - hopefuilly this means your in a with a chance! - they send a letter with a "dont call us well call you" hehe

dlx_xlb

1st Feb 2008, 08:27

Went to QCC today, and did the psych and skills test.
They said their going to get back to me in a week or so.
We will see hey.
I'm a CPL winter 2008 applicant BTW.

21391401

1st Feb 2008, 08:33

DLX hi ........how much notice did they give you for the testing

thx

21391401

1st Feb 2008, 08:35

DLX.........and if you don't mind sharing

what's your age

when did you apply

dlx_xlb

2nd Feb 2008, 04:01

hey, I submitted my application mid Nov got the invite. 15th JAn. was offered
22nd 29th and 1st of feb.
also 22. About to complete my CPL Theory is done. Failed the Flight test twice.
and how about yourself?

i also applied previously 2 other times. didn't meet the deadline for the autumn program. , and wasnt competitive enough for the 2007 level 1. (was already untertaking training)

21391401

2nd Feb 2008, 10:17

thx mate ... am 31, finished CPL about 8 months ago, working in a different industry, submitted about same time as you & nothing so far so I thk they have KB'd me, never applied before ..... good luck with your application

dlx_xlb

2nd Feb 2008, 11:35

Got every thing else thats required?
like your NVFR with 5 hours command at night?

Good luck with your application aswell.

21391401

2nd Feb 2008, 12:01

thought i had til you mentioned that - i have nvfr, nil command time, where does it say night command time reqd?

& thx

cessna_dave

2nd Feb 2008, 22:17

i thought a requirement of attaining the nvfr was that you did 5 hrs command time. it need only be in the circuit

Altimeters

2nd Feb 2008, 22:20

Negative, the 5hrs at night are required only for your instrument rating.

cudza101

3rd Feb 2008, 00:19

Altimeters,

I'm not sure whether it's a requirement for anything else but it is for the Commercial program. I got the call up for autumn about 10 days ago and she asked me to make sure that I had 5 hours in command at night. Hence, I think it's not so much a pre-requisite as it is something you have to do before you start training... if that makes sense!

dlx_xlb

3rd Feb 2008, 01:44

here you go:
Are there any additional requirements I should be aware of if applying to the Commercial Program?

If offered a position on the Cadet Pilot Training Program it is a requirement that Commercial Program Cadets will have completed 5 hours Pilot in Command (PIC) at night prior to the commencement of training. You may wish to consider this when undertaking your Night Visual Flight Rules training.

cudza101

3rd Feb 2008, 02:16

It's somewhat ambiguous but my reading is that the phrase "if offered a position" means that the 5 hours night PIC is a prerequisite for the training and not a prerequisite for applying... if that makes sense!

There was no stage within the recruitment process itself where they could ascertain whether you satisfied the requirment. They ask for the last three pages of your logbook but that wouldn't be conclusive if you'd done the time a year ago.

dlx_xlb

3rd Feb 2008, 02:27

yeah I agree.

ksa5223

3rd Feb 2008, 09:22

Hey guys,

noticed a few of you saying you are going for the commercial cadets route.

I applied and was called about it, asked if i had to pay any training money and I was no longer interested after I heard you still have to fork out 42,000$ relocate to adelaide for training / re sit atpl's. Regardless of already holding a CPL ME/ IR / ATPL!

I weighed up my options are it would be cheaper to buy the hours and apply as direct entry with 500hrs! lol!

Did you guys know and are prepared to do this? seems crazy to me.

50k debt is enough for me!

Steve - o

cudza101

3rd Feb 2008, 10:36

ksa5223,

When you say that you applied for the commercial program and were 'called about it' are you implying that you're application was successful or did you have this discussion much earlier in the process? The reason I ask is that I'm surprised that you would expend any energy on the process without knowing what the deal is so-to-speak.

More generally, I get the general gist of what you're saying - and it is true to say that you can fly your way from CPL to 500TT in less that $42,000. Nonetheless, I have have to agree with FP_Ace in that a) it is very unusual for a CPL to build hours without getting a job; and b) that, even in today's environment, the bare minimums are unlikely to get you in via direct entry.

From what I've gathered anecdotally and through the recruitment process, the mainline cadetships are popular not because they are cheap or cost effective but because they effectively guarantee you a place within the group and, perhaps more importantly, save you the trouble of going through the recruitment process further down the track. I guess it really comes down to when/where you want to join the rat race.

ksa5223

4th Feb 2008, 07:42

That's because it is intended for bare cpl holder's and not fully qualfied Pilots.Otherwise it would just defeat the purpose of direct entry...And please don't tell me you're really thinking about buying your self to 500TT?Not that you would stand a small chance of getting in with those times anyway.

FP

Hey, it was a joke and I was simply showing the comparison of how expensive it is. :ok:

ksa5223

4th Feb 2008, 07:51

ksa5223,
From what I've gathered anecdotally and through the recruitment process, the mainline cadetships are popular not because they are cheap or cost effective but because they effectively guarantee you a place within the group and, perhaps more importantly, save you the trouble of going through the recruitment process further down the track. I guess it really comes down to when/where you want to join the rat race.

Thats fair enough, in my situation it was more like do I have another spare 42k. Thats a no! 50k debt is enough atm...

I'll have to give the Qlink Traineeships a try.

HappyBandit

4th Feb 2008, 08:26

Have to agree with KSA

Have just been offered stage 2 invite for cadets but am now rethinking due to the 42k expense and now with Qantaslink traineeship. The bugger is in still not hearing from QL yet in order to make a better decision. Any suggestions? ie. Hold out for the QL traineeship or go for the cadetship stage 2?

cudza101

4th Feb 2008, 10:52

A rejection of the mainline cadetship after Stage 2 certainly makes more sense if you throw the QL traineeship into the equation but I think the principles remain the same - that is, the difference between the mainline cadetship and any other cadetship is that it offers you theoretical progression into mainline once you've done your training and your Industry Placement (coincidentally with QL).

In other words, doing the QL traineeship - on my reading - will leave you at the same stage as other QL Pilots who complain about the lack of progression to mainline.

Nadsy

9th Feb 2008, 06:47

G'day 21391401,

Sorry for taking so long to reply. I have the interview, oha and skills test this week. Still been trying to get my NVFR! I've got one more consolidation flight, and then the test. All I need is 2 more nights of flying, but with this weather, it's still cutting it fine.

I've got 2.1 command, so I should be able to get some circuits in to finish the rest.

Talk soon, and I'll let you know how I go.

Nadsy.

21391401

9th Feb 2008, 20:58

Nadsy good luck with all of it, sounds like a busy week ...... I finally got the call up for testing, due in a couple of weeks

dlx_xlb

10th Feb 2008, 04:54

21391401 whens your testing?
Says in the selection schedule stage 2 up to 15th Feb, but it looks like thier going to extend it.

cessna_dave

10th Feb 2008, 08:09

i hope they are extending the dates for this winter intake. the weather really has not been favourable for me to get this cpl & nvfr.

good luck this week nadsy, i'm doing the interview on friday. when is yours?

dave

21391401

10th Feb 2008, 10:58

DLX gidday - late feb

brisbane observer

10th Feb 2008, 11:42

Happy Bandit,

You will make about 100K more than a QL pilot first year out. Therefore, taking QL over Mainline due to 42K is financial suicide IMHO.

Cheers

Fonz121

11th Feb 2008, 01:06

Do the numbers........
Happy Bandit,

You will make about 100K more than a QL pilot first year out. Therefore, taking QL over Mainline due to 42K is financial suicide IMHO.

Cheers

I wasn't aware SO's made $150,000 first year out?

QFcaptain

11th Feb 2008, 01:40

That's because they don't.1st year S/Os are on 80k.any S/O making 150k(including allowance) is on the 747 and very senior.767 F/Os only just make over 150.

goaroundagain

11th Feb 2008, 04:05

Just wondering if someone can give me an idea of the interview questions that they are asking now.

I believe that the format has changed and the basis of the questions have changed.

Please feel free to email me/pm them to me.

Your assistance would be very much appreciated.

Cheers

Goaroundagain :ok:

Nadsy

12th Feb 2008, 09:13

Hey cessna_dave,

Thanks mate, and best of luck to you too. Might catch you there.

m20f: Questions were quite similar, but as dave said, many more, so a few more variations (especially spatial)... Numerical was pretty much pie charts, graphs, tabular info. Get quick with percentages.

P.S. Anyone done the skills test since it's been back up? I got through it in 2005, and tried to get credit, but they said it was different, and so I'd have to do it again.

Regards,

Nadsy

dlx_xlb

12th Feb 2008, 10:45

Nadsy

I Did the skills test on the 1st. Hand eye co-ordination test, Keep the ball in the middle, and the line in the square type thing.

And the other multi-tasking tests, which you probs have done b4.

I heard the skills test used to be 2 joysticks. and u had to keep a circle within a circle. something like that.

Nadsy

13th Feb 2008, 07:08

Thanks mate,

When I did it a couple of years ago it was joystick and rudder for about 3 or 4 tests (with some reverse sensed), and then aircraft instrument interpretation.

Nadsy.

dlx_xlb

13th Feb 2008, 07:31

yeah it had that too, the aircraft interpretation
mine had 3 instruments.
AH, ADF and DG.

and you and to choose which A/c was doing as the instruments said.

togs737

14th Feb 2008, 05:24

Is the skills part of the stage 2 testing difficult? Do more people bomb out on the skills or aptitude?

dlx_xlb

14th Feb 2008, 07:45

Yeah I can see how the skills test can be difficult for people who, find it hard to multi task, and for people who aren't co-ordinated.
I didn't find it too bad. As I am pretty co-ordinated and able to multi-task

As for who bombs out more with the skills or psych testing. I wouldn't know. I'm not apart of the recruitment team.

[200]

14th Feb 2008, 12:08

I noticed that the computer software they use for testing was made by a group called SHL.

I found their website and obtained from 'study aids' from it...

If anyone would like to have a look at some questions please PM me your email address and I will send them off. Would be great for practice! (answers not included) & it will give you a better understanding with the questions they ask.

Nadsy

21st Feb 2008, 06:34

Hey Cessna_Dave,

How do you recon you went on your interview? Have you had any news yet since Friday? They said roughly a week or so, but that's such a long time when you're waiting on something like this!! They got back to me 4 days after the psychs.

21391401, have you had your assessments yet?

dlx_xlb, the skills was completely different to the one that I did in 2005.

Nadsy.

21391401

21st Feb 2008, 08:01

Nadsy hi - don't go in til next week - did they go easy on you?

Airjordan - I have NVFR, can't seem them KB'ing you because no NVFR for reasons beyond your control, it is obviously not an ability thing because you already have a CPL, they will say endeavour to have it prior to course start if you get accepted

goaroundagain

21st Feb 2008, 08:48

Gday guys,

Well done to those of you that have got through the interview stage. I am still waiting to hear - interview was late last week.

Has anyone done or about to do the flight test? Would you be so kind as to share any information that you might have, either here or pm me would be very much appreciated.

Interview for me was fine, pretty straight forward. Lots of what if questions, but apart from that it was all fine.

Looking forward to hearing about the flight test information.

How are the other guys and gals progressing - how far are you through the process?

Nadsy, did you get asked to do the OPG etc? Have they progressed that far yet?

Cheers

Nadsy

22nd Feb 2008, 07:08

Hi Cessna_Dave,

Congratulations mate, that's great news. Are they going to progress you pending the NVFR outcome?

I too am struggling to finish my NVFR, and have been since March last year! I've got all the boxes ticked, just need a consolidation Nav, and then the flight test.

goaround again, no news yet. It's been a week, and they said they'd get back to me in a week or so.

21391401: They were pleasant to meet. They definately read every word of my application, and every question was probed, including interuptions... but at no point were they hard on me or rude.

Let us know if anyone gets anymore news.

Cheers,

Nadsy

21391401

22nd Feb 2008, 09:14

thx Nadsy, will do

let us know how you progress .... good luck with it

goaroundagain

22nd Feb 2008, 11:50

Gday Dave,

Well done on your progress. Im just waiting to hear back from the interview that I completed last week.

I was told that I would need to complete a flight test and OPG etc. Have you completed the cadet flight test yet or do you have to have NVFR before you can carry out the flight test?

Have you heard much about the flight test? There doesnt seem to be much out there on it. I am frantically searching, so if I find anything I will let you know.

Cheers

Nadsy

22nd Feb 2008, 21:54

Hi Cessna_Dave and airjordan,

Similar problems here in YSCB with NVFR. I've had over 20 cancellations since March last year due to weather, and lack of instructor/aircraft availability (all regular instructors moved to the airline arm). I've hung on to the one available instructor, but he's about to go on paternity leave (as am I!!). In the worst case, he said the testing officer could fly out west (past Griffith) IFR during the day, and we could do a NAV test at night, where the LSALTS are 1500-2000.

I've given myself till the end of next week (as we've got some nice weather coming up Mon/Tues), but will look at going to YPMQ. Haven't spoken to them yet, but I've gone up there a couple of times to finish stuff off, and may do it again. They've got pilot acomm, reasonable prices, and LSALTS of 3300 up and down the coast.

Nadsy

22nd Feb 2008, 22:29

Hi Airjordan,

Yeah, it does take a bit to get to places like Armidale (5700) over the ranges, but there is always the option of going to Kempsey (2500) straight up to Coffs (3100), and then into Grafton (3300).

The above LSALTS aren't as good as out west, but from where I am, I need cloud above about 6000 to get anywhere. Glad my 100Nm/3 hr Nav is done!

goaroundagain

25th Feb 2008, 09:20

Gday guys and gals

Has anyone actually completed the flight test?

Does anyone have any clues on what to expect or anticipate, or the best way to prepare?

I would be very grateful to anyone that might be able to assist me with their experiences.....pm is fine or share with the group so that we can all be best prepared.....

Thanks in advance

loopylarry

25th Feb 2008, 09:32

hey guys, has anyone [here :ugh:] applied for the spring commercial program?

Nadsy

7th Mar 2008, 04:06

Hi Guys,

Has anyone going through the Winter program assessments got any more news? 3 weeks exactly gone past since my interview, so contacting them today as per website instructions.

Regards,

Nadsy.

Omega471

7th Mar 2008, 09:37

Loopy Larry,

I applied on the 1st of Feb.
Completed stage 2 assessment on Wednesday (5th of March) and have been invited to stage 3 assessment on the 20th of March. Spoke to the recruitement people today and was advised they had some time available that had previously been allocated to the Winter program. If I was available they could fit me in, or I could wait until the 12th of May, "Your choice".

Good luck.

Omega471

togs737

7th Mar 2008, 11:33

i got rejected at application stage :sad:

i had previously applied for the phase 1 cadets and got knocked back at testing, however i applied again in hope that id get past testing (with some preparation this time), should of had CPL and NVFR by August too, but it doesn't seem like recruiting want to know me atm... :uhoh::ugh:

Good stuff Omega471, best wishes, you'll be in it in no time!!!

21391401

10th Mar 2008, 21:47

Nadsy hi mate - nothing to report here, have been for test & interview (> a week ago) and not heard a peep - given Cessna Dave's quick call back, anything greater than 24 hours lowers my expectations - Airjordan did they come back to you quickly for flight test offer? - good luck to all

21391401

10th Mar 2008, 22:04

All the best for the interview Air Jordan

cessna_dave

10th Mar 2008, 22:47

Good luck for the interview airjordan

airjordan

11th Mar 2008, 08:33

thanks guys. let us know if there is any more progress.

goodluck to all.

Nadsy

12th Mar 2008, 08:06

Hi Guys,

Sorry I haven't replied to some of your responses, but I had a baby girl on Saturday night. Got a letter from Qantas today with a shake of the head. Quite disappointed, but back up and ready for plan B.

Hey Cessna Dave, did you try Johnstons at YPMQ? I've need to get things done there in the past, and they've always tried hard to get it done.

Air Jordan, all the best for next week. Hope to hear some good news from you soon.

21391401, a week is still pretty early days. Hopefully you hear something positive soon.

Take care guys, and all the best. I'll keep an eye out to see how you go.

21391401

12th Mar 2008, 09:05

Nadsy hi - Airjordan has said it better than I ever could, so ditto .... from everything I have read it is a very competitive process, and there are other ways of getting in, so it is not a no, just a no now ..... a healthy baby girl is an excellent consolation prize, congrats ..... maybe our plan B's will coincide .... let us know where you head

cessna_dave

12th Mar 2008, 09:28

Nadsy, sorry to hear of the bad news.

Congrats on the baby girl, I hope all is well. Good luck with implementing plan B. Also, keep us posted on your movements as we will you.

Thanks for the reference to Johnstons, I may end up there soon.

Regards
Dave

Capt Wally

12th Mar 2008, 22:34

'Nadsy' having a healthy baby of any sex is far better than working for QF. Yr daughter you have for life with all the love & expectations that go with it, (congrats)QF will not have the same love but more a life sentance so they may very well have done you a favour!:) remember Nadsy, their loss !:)

CW

cessna_dave

17th Mar 2008, 00:35

I know a couple of people have asked here before but here goes again anyway.

Has any one done the qf flight test yet?

Mine should be on Sunday or Tuesday coming.

Shadowfromthesky

19th Mar 2008, 06:40

Wondering, if anyone has recently done the QF skills/ hand-eye co-ordination testing in sydney. Apparently the old joystick and rudders test has been upgraded to a dual joystick of somesort. Would be great if anyone would know..

1- What does it entail?
2- Is there anyway you can study/practice for it?

Cheers

QF2

19th Mar 2008, 10:59

Yeh i heard the old one, which was about 20 years old, broke down and was replaced. Does anyone know what the new one is like? And also if the instrument interpretation etc is still the same or not?

goaroundagain

20th Mar 2008, 10:36

Still waiting to hear back Airjordan......how did the rest of you guys/gals go?

Has anyone had any offers yet?

Cheers

QF2

22nd Mar 2008, 10:55

"you can apply with a MECIR, whether it gives you an advantage or not, it is up to recruitment to decide on that. I don't think it matters as long as you have the minimum requirements and fit the other criteria."

It's unlikely a MECIR will give you any advantage, or disadvantage, for that matter. What they are considering when they are assessing you is what sort of pilot you will make in the future. Sure, having a MECIR may show you're pretty keen to keep moving on with your flying and progress as quickly as possible, but the important thing is for them to see that you will make a good pilot when you are flying for them. Being able to demonstrate these qualities in an interview is much more important than failing to show them these qualities but having a MECIR.

goaroundagain

31st Mar 2008, 12:25

Has anyone had any news yet?????

Everything seems to have gone very quiet....surely someone must have an offer??????

Good luck guys and gals....

Goaround

Eastern2217

2nd Apr 2008, 11:34

Got an offer to do the Flight test.

goaroundagain

17th Apr 2008, 10:33

Guys/Gals any news????

I am guessing that the offers must be out now? How did everyone go?????

Some lucky people must have got in......

Cheers

Goaroundagain

garman

11th May 2008, 17:50

just curious if anyone knows whether next years commercial programs will have the same selection schedule, ie applications for next years autumn program will open in late june to 30th sept etc???

also how many were being accepted into each commercial program offered, i know they bumped up the intake for the abnitio program, was this the same for the commercial program??

how'd all those guys who said they were going for the flight test go?? any comments about it...

Carambar

23rd May 2008, 05:47

anyone know when applications open for QC09 ?

atminimums

23rd May 2008, 08:12

anyone know when applications open for QC09 ?

Heard from head of pilot recruitment that the dates will be very similar to last year's schedule (which is still up on the Q website). However, the total period for application intake will be shortened (to about 10 weeks, I think.).

Hope that helps.

mins

garman

23rd May 2008, 09:01

thanks for the info atminimums, do you have any idea on how many are accepted into each commercial program intake? has it also increased such as the ab-initio courses?

Carambar

4th Jun 2008, 02:39

Thanks atminimums.

It looks like applications opened June 1st for the Associate degree anyway.

Closing date: 30/08

Good luck to anyone applying! :ok:

Carambar

8th Jul 2008, 02:28

Has anyone attended the info sessions for QC '09? Or heard back from QF for a stage 2?

Carambar

28th Jul 2008, 04:37

Has anyone received the same email regarding a Stage 2 invitation for QC09?

I've been trying to get in contact with recruitment but can't get through to them :bored:

melvin_arnold

21st Aug 2008, 22:42

Hey mate, yeah i did the stage 2 for the 2009 cadet program, and i got an email yesterday saying i was unsuccessful, it was very very very long testing. I reckon you should check the time table for the selection and see how long its going on for, or email them to see if you are able to go.

Nards

22nd Aug 2008, 10:22

Does anyone know what is happening with cadet recuitment at the moment? Is it still going ahead? I applied for Autumn 09 Commercial course in mid July but still haven't heard anything at all. Understand that recruitment for DE is on hold for a few weeks, guess it is a safe assumption for the cadet scheme as well?

Any info appreciated.

Cheers
Nards

Carambar

22nd Aug 2008, 11:51

Had a stage 2 about three weeks ago. 3 of us were cadets, 2 DE and I think they are scheduled until the end of September (for the cadet program anyway).

Hope that helps
:ok:

Nards

22nd Aug 2008, 12:03

Carambar,
Thanks for the info, good to know there is still some movement. Stage 1 for Autumn 09 closes 30 Sept so I guess I should at least get an invite or a letter saying no thanks by the end of Sept. Stage 2 finishes 30 October for Autumn (according to Q website)

Did you apply for spring or Autumn course?

Cheers

Carambar

23rd Aug 2008, 09:57

Nards,

I probably should have mentionned - I applied for the Associate degree (Swinburne). I'm not sure if its the same deal for CPL cadets but I would assume so.

atminimums

24th Aug 2008, 06:48

thanks for the info atminimums, do you have any idea on how many are accepted into each commercial program intake? has it also increased such as the ab-initio courses?

garman - I am not sure about the exact intake numbers on the commercial program, but I was told by the same guy (head pilot recruitment) that he was able to take as many ab-initio cadets as he liked, as long as they did well in the assesment. He said that he has no maximum quota or limit.

That was in march though, so I am not sure if the situation has changed along with the fuel prices and recent troubles, but it was optimistic news for us when we heard, thats for sure.

Nards

24th Aug 2008, 11:22

atminimums,
Got the same info in July at the Sydney presentation. However the reason for my questions is it seems that, like with DE guys, recruiting has slowed somewhat.

Cheers
Nards

Carambar

25th Aug 2008, 09:16

Ross,

I have heard from current cadets that although flying experience can help, it is not crucial - Some of them had as little as 2hrs before being offered a place in the program. Some had GFPT, others PPL and some on their way to CPL. It depends on your overall performance during the assessments I would say.

Good luck :ok:

atminimums

25th Aug 2008, 09:21

Ross,

Carambar is just about right I'd say. In my opinion, although not essential, a little bit of flight training prior to the application shows that your are keen on the job and maybe not waiting around for a cadetship to make it happen.

But there is a balance, as too much becomes undesirable. That said, I do know someone who got in last year with 120+ hours on his ppl. and CPL exams completed. Another that got in with him, on the other hand, had flight time about equal to yours.

In others words, I think you are good to go :ok: Good luck.

Mins

Mstr Caution

25th Aug 2008, 10:50

Ross,

I hope I dont sound over the top, but 5 hours or 50 hours isnt that much experience when it comes to airline recruitment.

When airlines hire experienced pilots they are recruiting direct entry guys & gals with 1000's of hours. So whether you have 0, 5, 50 or 150 hours for something like a cadetship is like saying how much of an intro to flying does a candidate have.

I would be more concerned about whether you are the type of person & employee that the particular airline wants rather than the 0, 5 or 50 hours in the logbook.

It seems alot of hours at the time, I was like that some 25+ years ago, but think how the airlines would think, not how a potential cadet would approach it.

MC:8

Mstr Caution

26th Aug 2008, 01:01

Ross,

Yeah certainly do some flying as that displays your motivation & interest in flying & towards doing a cadetship. Goodluck.

MC:8

Sydneyite

27th Aug 2008, 11:23

Nards,

Have heard that there is no impact on cadet program and it is all go for 09'.

DE has not slowed, people are apparently still getting through the process and they are still putting S/Os on courses.

Apparently the notification process has slowed until they receive further information post the annoucments that were made recently (ie loss of jobs). This info has come from a mate that has a Letter of Intent on the DE side.

Good Luck :)

Rhodes13

27th Aug 2008, 14:02

Sydenite I suggest your friend check his sources. Im sitting on a letter of intent and the last email that was sent out last week was that courses are still on hold for the next 4 weeks until the board makes a decision on future needs. This is on top of another two week delay prior.

Not to be a downer but the economy both locally and worldwide is slowing drastically so this will have to impact numbers required by the rat. Just as an example next FY they were due to expand at 8 percent but new plan is 0 growth, due to fleet retirements etc What that will do to upcoming courses is anyones guess!

By all means stay positive but remember it was only a couple of years ago that guys were in the hold pool for about TWO years.

KTM525

27th Aug 2008, 22:06

Guys and Gals, just for your info S/O courses are still going ahead, one began last monday (25/08). Good luck to everyone applying.

Carambar

29th Aug 2008, 04:38

Best way to practice for the psych would be to go on SHL site and work off that. As for skills, it would help if you are already taking flight lessons, other than that - play Microsoft FS! :ok:

Good luck mate

HPSOV

29th Aug 2008, 06:35

Re getting some flying experience before applying for the cadetship...

When a DE applicant fronts up with 1500hrs earnt flying lousy aeroplanes, on lousy pay, in a lousy part of the country you know they have the motivation, determination and drive to make a career out of flying aeroplanes.
The hard thing with cadets is working out who is going to stick with it, and who isn't. If you walk into an interview and tell them how much you want to get the cadetship and be a pilot because you love flying so much and have 0 or 2 or 5 hours at the age of 18-20 its not going to look great. If you really love avaition so much then why so little flying? The best applicants would walk in having got a job at maccas or kmart at 16 to earn enough money to have a lesson every few weeks. They'd have 20 or 30 hours, maybe even a GFPT. This would prove they've done some flying, found out what its all about, and really fallen in love with it. 20 hours flying is neither here nor there for a DE applicant, but it can make a world of difference to a cadet!

HPSOV

29th Aug 2008, 06:43

Re slowing down of recruitment...

Clearly DE recruitment has slowed somewhat (several people on here with letters of intent that have been delayed).
However as the lead time from a cadet starting course, to becoming available to QF is a minimum of 3.5 yrs, or a maximum of 5 yrs (associate or bachelors degree) there will be no reduction in numbers as there has been no change in QF's longterm outlook (380/787 orders are still the same). Additionally as cadets cost QF nothing (they pay their own training) and there is no guarentee of a job at the end (if there is a massive downturn QF does not have to employ the cadets) they would be stupid to reduce numbers.

Nards

29th Aug 2008, 07:10

Sydneyite & HPSOV
I hope you are both right and I have my fingers firmly crossed!

Cheers
Nards

B747ERNG

6th Sep 2008, 08:23

Hi cudza101 21391401 airjordan NADSY & everyone, I'm new to pprune.:)

I too applied for autumn 09 program and waited for 1 month before being invited for stage 2. Did you guys have a telephone interview with recruitment before sitting the stage 2 test?
Is it necessary to attend the preparation course (eg: Dr Steve Holding) or is it possible to self-study for the stage 2? I've been doing a lot of research on this website, but everyone seems to have different opinion on this subject. Could I ask anyone who has attended the selection process recently to steer me in the right direction?

I wish everyone good luck and hear the good news soon!:ok:

Mstr Caution

6th Sep 2008, 12:41

However as the lead time from a cadet starting course, to becoming available to QF is a minimum of 3.5 yrs, or a maximum of 5 yrs

Only if they are industry placed, remember they never use to!

Additionally as cadets cost QF nothing (they pay their own training) and there is no guarentee of a job at the end (if there is a massive downturn QF does not have to employ the cadets) they would be stupid to reduce numbers.

Incorrect.

Altimeters

6th Sep 2008, 23:38

Word on the street is that the last group of QC2s to finish have gone straight to mainline! So does this mean no more industry placement? :confused:

cudza101

7th Sep 2008, 01:27

B747ERNG It might be fair to say that only you yourself will know whether you need to do a preparation course. If you think that you're a bit weak on a particular area (comprehension for example) it might be worth paying the exorbitant cost of one of these courses.

There are various books which you can get - some of which are mentioned on these threads - and I think they provide good preparation at a greatly reduced cost. Get your hands on a couple of these and just remember that you're not expected (by far) to ace any of the tests... simply put, it's not possible.

Good luck!

Mr. Hat

7th Sep 2008, 01:46

I'd be interested to hear from people that did the course. Did they get in?

What was it like?

atminimums

7th Sep 2008, 02:38

B747 and Mr. Hat,

I know people that have made it through (both as cadets and d/e) without anything more than a couple of books to use as practice.. I also know people who have done the preparation courses and thought that they meant a free ticket, but ended up being knocked out at stage 2 or 3.

Someone gave me a great piece of advice when I started preparing my application - and that was that I might be better off spending all that money (that I would have been spending on the prep courses) on a nice new suit and some study books - and even maybe take some time off work to hammer out some solid study. :ok:

But I do agree with cudza when he says that it depends on how you feel about the exams/interviews. From what I hear, those courses are fantastic in terms of interview preparation especially... Not too sure about how they go for exam/psych test practice.

Good luck with it.

mins :cool:

57GoldTop

7th Sep 2008, 05:04

I got the bad news on Friday and the email stated that I'm still eligible to apply for future cadet programs or direct entry. I'm not to fussed though, I enjoyed the experience..

Would it be worth while doing the Bachelors Degree at Swinburne or at UNSW instead ? I know most will chime in and say don't bother :)

Mr. Hat

7th Sep 2008, 09:38

spending all that money (that I would have been spending on the prep courses) on a nice new suit and some study books - and even maybe take some time off work to hammer out some solid study.

atminimums did all that mate first go for DE. Didn't work and i put a fair effort in so i thought well the next go could be the last so i'd better make it a good one!

would like to hear from those that did it. If i miss out at the sim interview well then thats that but the big one is the first stage for me.

(dont think they noticed the suit..)

HPSOV

8th Sep 2008, 05:09

Additionally as cadets cost QF nothing (they pay their own training) and there is no guarentee of a job at the end (if there is a massive downturn QF does not have to employ the cadets) they would be stupid to reduce numbers.

Incorrect.

Care to elaborate?

Carambar

8th Sep 2008, 05:40

The QF cadet course is subsidised by the government where the cadets have access to $80,000 (FEE-HELP). If you look at the Associate degree for example, you'll find the course costs approximately $130K. Meaning the cadets have to fork out an additional $50K. This, combined with the fact that there is no guarantee of a job after completing the course means that there is no reason for QF to stop recruiting cadets if it costs them nothing.

biggles7374

8th Sep 2008, 12:56

Carambar you are spot on in what you are saying however I would like to clarify one point for the benefit of those who perhaps do not understand the finance side of funding 'further education'

FEE HELP should not be considered a government subsidy that has to be 'topped up' by the budding airline pilot or his/her parents for the QF Cadet course. FEE Help is a loan, that just like a loan from a bank needs to be paid back eventually. Repayments of the FEE HELP 'loan' do not start until salary reaches a specified level. However until that time anduntil the 'loan is totally paid off the 'loan amount' or debt amount increase in value in line with the CPI (official cost of living index). So the longer it takes to earn a salary level that would dictate that the loan needs to be repaid the more the debt will grow in similar way to how interest accrues on a bank loan.

On top of the annual CPI increase on the outstanding FEE HELP 'loan' there is also a one off loan fee of 20% of the 'loan'

So for a potential cadet thinking it is going to cost $50,000 - think again, it is going to cost a lot more than that especially as the average person would want to apply for the full FEE HELP allowance of $81,600, in fact it is going to cost you the following:

FEE HELP 'loan - $81,600
Top Up to Uni Fee - $50,000
FEE HELP FEE - $16,320
Total - $147,920

.......and that does not include the CPI increase year on year at 2-3% of the outstanding amount (less one off fee and student contribution). So in year 1 that would increase the outstanding amount by about $2.5k (3% of the outstanding amount at the end of year 1). etc. etc. etc.

FEE HELP makes the training more accessible but there is a higher price to pay.

Sorry if I am teaching Granny to suck eggs but it is a big investment and everyone should be aware of the fact.

KRUSTY 34

9th Sep 2008, 00:32

Yikes!!! Biggles.

No wonder people have stopped learning to fly.

Mind you, the more traditional path with the associated sacrifices and uncertainties will cost less. But are Gen 'Y' interested in that? I think therein may lie part of the (supply) problem.

Operators (other than QF maybe) take note.

MTBUR

11th Sep 2008, 09:39

Cadetship doesn't gaurantee a job at the end, as HPSOV said. Done on a case-by-case basis, and there is a difference between being a 'Cadet Graduate' and one who actually gets employed eventually. Of those who have been offered employment, however, only 2 that I know of have declined.

simq

23rd Sep 2008, 11:40

Hi guys

Been reading the threads here for a while, good to see healthy debate on numerous topics.

Just wondering if any cadets who have applied for the commercial spring program have received any news yet? I have passed every stage of the process, had refs taken and now waiting on a final decision. Has anyone got knocked back at ref stage either DE or for the cadets?

Also, read that the latest bunch of cadets went straight onto mainline, was that the tumble weeds or some truth to the fact?

Thanks in Advance :ok:

biggles7374

24th Sep 2008, 00:05

Hi Simq

Yes, the last bunch of Commercial cadets (QF21) will go straight to mainline on A330 operations. This may be a temporary thing and may not happen in the future.

Heard a rumour, and it is only a rumour, that circa 80 cadet candidates were given a flight test for entry into the Spring 08 Commercial Programme. Of these only 10 are going to be offerred places.

I wish you the best of luck that you are one of the 10, if you are you have done bloody well!!!!!

B747ERNG

24th Sep 2008, 05:24

Hi all,

What is the dress code for stage2 skill assessment? Do I have to wear a suit jacket?

thanks:ok:

biggles7374

24th Sep 2008, 06:07

Do I need to wear a jacket? - What do you think?

Read the information on the Qantas website relating to the Cadet programme and particularly the selection process.

About Qantas - Qantas Careers - Pilots - Cadet Briefing Sheet (http://www.qantas.com.au/info/about/employment/pilotsCadetBrief)

Good Luck!!

haileybury777

24th Sep 2008, 07:12

Yea wear a suit and tie for sure! did the psych and skills test few weeks ago, but got knocked back ! :( Stuffed up that skills test big time!! . Instrument Interpretation! anyone know how that daym RBI works??

thnx

Mstr Caution

24th Sep 2008, 07:13

If your looking to land the cadetship wear business atire whenever your within a 1nm radius of QCC3 & for the flight to & from Sydney if travelling on QF.

MC

mr.tos

24th Sep 2008, 07:18

or just fly virgin.. that would give em' the ****s :ok:

B747ERNG

25th Sep 2008, 00:28

Thanks for the info guys! Better send the suit to dry clean. Wish everyone good luck!

Cheers:ok:

biggles7374

25th Sep 2008, 03:51

Hi Hailey

How do you know you stuffed up the skills test due to the RBI exercise?

Regarding the RBI exercise on the COMPASS tests, treat the RMI as a clock. The arrow head always points to the station. If the arrow head on the instrument is pointing to the bottom left hand side then the station will be at 7o'clock to the aircraft. Additionally from what I remember you have to combine this information with the heading from the compass and the attitude from the Artificial horizon to select the correct answer.

Hope this helps should you try again in the future

Biggles

garman

25th Sep 2008, 06:37

Heard a rumour, and it is only a rumour, that circa 80 cadet candidates were given a flight test for entry into the Spring 08 Commercial Programme. Of these only 10 are going to be offerred places.

How accurate is your source for that rumour? it just sounds pretty excessive doing 80 test flights and only offering 10 positions, as I've heard theres only 3 qantas flight testing officers? Is 10 positions the normal intake number for the commercial program, or has it also expanded like the ab-initio program?

biggles7374

25th Sep 2008, 06:50

Hi Garman

Like I said it is a rumour I heard - either take the information or don't, it's up to you.

I did not hear the information first hand but if I had any reason to doubt the source I certainly would not have posted it!!!

In regards to course numbers, the last couple of commercial courses has been less than 10 i think

haileybury777

25th Sep 2008, 12:16

biggles

Thanks for that mate, nah coz i didnt finish that section, kept messing it up :S dno how the psych results were they dont tell us thnx again! :)

biggles7374

1st Oct 2008, 08:13

Any of the Spring Applicants heard anything? According to the timetable the outcomes should have been given last week.

startingout

1st Oct 2008, 11:01

Hi biggles,

i have not heard anything yet on the commercial program. I have applied looking to recieve my cpl in about 2 weeks time. Does anyone know much about the flight test, is it just like a repeat of the CPL?
SO:ok:

MTBUR

7th Oct 2008, 00:16

How are all you level 1 guys going with the selection process? Any news to shed?

MTBUR

carra_909

12th Oct 2008, 11:16

hey guys

ive got the medical and interview at the end of this month

I found out that they would like me to attend the interview lest than a week after completing stage two testing. Is this a sign that they are eager to find out more of me at the interview or am i looking to deep into this

also any advice from any one else that went up this time around for the interview?

thanks, carra_909

atminimums

12th Oct 2008, 22:46

carra_909

I have heard of a few cadets recently being invited for both the testing and interview/medical within a few days of eachother, or sometimes back to back. Apparently it is nothing more than lucky timing with the availability of flight crew and HR department for the interview.

So I wouldn't look to deep into it. But do take your opportunity to go 'directly' to the interview, as obviously they are interested. :ok:

mins

MTBUR

13th Oct 2008, 04:51

Good work, which scheme are you applying for? Just be yourself in the interview and answer the questions - they didn't call you back cause they don't want you, just remember that! Show to them why you're the right candidate.

In regards to quick interviews, right now if you got all your testing and interviews back to back, yes that means it's just a timing issue, but if on you were some of the cadets contacted in July and were offered the testing, interview and medical over 2 consecutives days on the outset it means your application stood out; not to say that these people are 'in' for sure, they just stood out. A downside of it is that those cadets who did that testing back in late july/early august are now just waiting it out for the end - especially the yr12 students in that group.

B747ERNG

15th Oct 2008, 13:14

Hi all,:)
I did my stage 2 in September and was invited to do stage 3 in October, so that's about 1 month waiting for my case. I'm curious how do people do stage 2 & 3 back to back without knowing the result of stage 2?

By the way, I noticed the CPL required date for Autumn program is 30 Nov, does that mean you just have to pass the CPL flight test before the date or do you have to be issued with the actual CPL licence from CASA?

cheers!:ok:

garman

18th Oct 2008, 04:40

Hi all,
I have put in an application for the Autumn 09 commercial program about a month an a half ago now and I'm still waiting for a reply. The selection schedule on the website states that stage 2 assessments for this program end on the 30th of October. Does anyone know whether these dates are set in concrete or is there some flexibility around them? If they are, that only gives me 12 days till the cut off date, so I was wondering if anyone thinks it would be a good idea to send them an email enquiring about the progress of my application?
Any help would be greatly appreciated!
Cheers, garman :ok:

biggles7374

18th Oct 2008, 11:51

Hi Garman

Work on the basis of no news is good news.

I went to Mascot for Assessment for the Spring 08 Program, the cut off was 30th June but my assessment was late July. They were just running late!

Good Luck - and make sure you are well prepared (practice cubes!!!!)

griffy

25th Oct 2008, 04:05

hey guys i've got a couple of questions that are aimed for current/ex cadets so here it goes:

1. for the Qantas Swinburne bachelor of aviation, i heard that 2nd to 3rd year uni students are offered places in the cadetship. if this is true, does any1 know is it only the best students are offered places depending on spaces available due to dropouts?how many places are offered and do they approach u or u have to go and apply for it?

2. what are the pass rate for cadets? do most of them pass into the workplacement program or only the top cadets go through?

3. can u minimise your time spent in the course by continuing classes during holiday breaks as a cadet? i know that normal uni students are offered the choice to finish faster by going to them.

thats all the questions so far and thanks in advance!:ok:

Carambar

27th Oct 2008, 00:47

Does anyone know/has heard anything about the mid-yr entry scheme for the Associate Degree?

Cheers,
Carambar :ok:

CPLCC

27th Oct 2008, 06:46

Hey guys....firstly, good luck to all of you.
Secondly, I received an email this morning from QF wanting me to email back with a preferred time for a 10-15min phone interview. I applied for the Commercial Cadet program about 3-4 months ago. Are any of you able to shed some light on what the phone interview is all about? I mean, is it a "get to know you" call, or do they fire questions etc etc.. thanks!

atminimums

27th Oct 2008, 07:54

CPLCC
I think the phone interview is a fairly casual affair. But don't quote me on that. I'm sure someone on here will be able to shed some light. I myself didn't have a phone interview (well, at least they didnt tell me it was a phone interview) but I know some people that did.

I received a phone call after I submitted my app, but it was just some casual questions about my application, and a bit of a chat about the recruitment process.

If I were to offer any advice on a phone interview, it would be to know your application and know a bit about the recruitment process. Have an idea for when you might be available to go down for testing/interviews as well, saves you having to stumble around dates on the phone if they offer it to you.

Hope it helps

mins :cool:

biggles7374

31st Oct 2008, 11:08

Things must be pretty bad on the recruitment front at QF / QL.

The latest course of graduating Qantas Commercial Cadets from Parafield have been told 'Don't call us - We'll call you'.......when we know what is happenning with pilot recruitment. In the meantime get a job elsewhere!!!!

They have no industry placements for these guys after them spending $45k on the most expensive instrument rating ever.

I feel for these guys!!!

If you are considering the QF Cadet program - think hard about it cause it seems recruitment are hiding behind the 'no guarantees' spiel at the moment.

Next intake of cadets started this week.

Eject Goose Eject

31st Oct 2008, 11:45

Biggles,

Back in an earlier post you mentioned that a group of cadets skipped the industry placement and went straight to mainline. Are you now saying that for this latest group, there is no industry placement available AND they aren't being offered the same opportunity to go direct to mainline?

I'm about to put in my application for the commercial course so this news is obviously a concern. :uhoh:

IORRA

31st Oct 2008, 16:02

No course of cadets has ever not made it into QF, and QF have never used their 'no guarantees' clause on any cadet who has otherwise met all of their requirements. In the event that recruitment slows or is suspended, graduated cadets who've met the requirements of their course (and placement, if applicable) are first cabs off the rank when QF recruit again. In any case, even under the present circumstances, it is highly unlikely that recruitment will completely shut down.

So if you're thinking about applying for it, carry on!

That is all.

Icarus53

31st Oct 2008, 21:06

Some perspective is probably in order here - firstly, it is not out of the ordinary that graduating cadets not be given industry placements immediately after finishing training. Many previous courses have waited for months for placement to start, with little to no information provided in the mean time. Although this is certainly not ideal for all concerned, everyone got a job in the end. The current group may be waiting a while, but I certainly wouldn't expect that QF will just turn around in the end with a "no guarantees" line (although there are indeed "no guarantees").

QF have never used their 'no guarantees' clause on any cadet who has otherwise met all of their requirements.

On a strict accuracy front, I believe there has been a cadet who completed (and passed) the training course in Melbourne but who was removed from the program and not offered an industry placement. I will not speculate as to reason for that decision here.

IORRA

31st Oct 2008, 22:26

Agreed, Icarus. I'm aware of that particular case (I think), but far from being some sort of arbitrary 'slashing', the company had reasons for doing it, and - rightly or wrongly - it's their trainset, and they can reject who they like, provided it's lawful.

I guess my observation was aimed more generally at those going through, or contemplating the cadetship. If you jump through the hoops, stay out of trouble, and don't turn out to be quite a different person from the one they thought they'd selected, then you have little to fear from the 'no guarantees' clause or any downturn or recruitment suspension, beyond the inconvenience of an employment delay.

Mstr Caution

1st Nov 2008, 00:09

Patience grasshoppers - Aviation is a dynamic environment

Chives

1st Nov 2008, 07:35

Biggles

Any idea how many cadets started the course this week?

A mate I trained with got knocked back for that intake only after his refs were called, qf security checks, and dental records requested. Standard rejection letter. Zero feedback.

Is this unusual for QF HR department?

biggles7374

1st Nov 2008, 08:16

Hi Chives

Dunno the numbers but am sure I could find out.

Re the standard rejection letter - this is totally normal irrespective of how far you get. Recruitment will not give an inch if you ring up and try to find out - you get told company policy says ....... blah blah blah.

I also got told that once you get the rejection letter any future applications will not be considered until 12 months have passed. Did your friend's letter say that?

Biggles

biggles7374

1st Nov 2008, 08:22

E.J.E.

Yes you are correct.

QF22 were told they were going direct to mainline on A330 ops.

few months later...........QF23 have been told no placements at the moment....we'll call you!!

I am aware that historically this has happenned before where there is a 'waiting period' between graduation and placement but all the information on the QF website doesn't mention that this may be the case, it suggests the different phases of the cadetship are practically seamless.

I apologise if my previous post suggested these guys would not get a placement, I am sure they will, my comment regarding no guarantees related to being given a placement immediately on completion of the course.

Biggles

Keg

1st Nov 2008, 08:33

Prior to the CIPP cadets have had delays of up to three years. Mine was 2 years, 3 months and 21 days.....but who's counting. :ok: Admittedly this was all the way back in '92-95. I guess most of the current cadet applicants were in nappies back then! :eek: :}

My point is that QF cadet applicants should read these forums regularly and glean from the regular QF contributors to get an idea of the dynamic nature of the industry. Things change. Learn to roll with the punches and to not take it personally and you're setting yourself up for a peaceful and joyful career.

j3pipercub

1st Nov 2008, 08:37

Hey Keg,

Wise words, so in that time did you find work in Aviation? Were you on Industry Placement in that time or elsewhere?

j3

Keg

1st Nov 2008, 09:33

Work in aviation? No. Pilots were falling out of trees and those who had C500 time in their log books from the Australian Aviation College weren't viewed all that highly out in GA land because we 'had our career coming and so we're going to give a go to a kid who needs the hours'. Fair enough i guess.

There was no industry placement back in those days. Four cadets ended up with National Jet and that was organised by QF but that wasn't a formal thing. We heard essentially nothing from QF for 18 months after graduation. At that time they told us to 'forget QF'. If they called in three to five years and we were still available then great. If not then QF admitted that was to be their loss. They took the first cadet two months later and we were all in by the following January. It's a dynamic industry. Things change. Don't expect anything and you won't be disappointed. Being a QF cadet does not give you the right to expect to be treated well by anyone in aviation- and that includes QF.

j3pipercub

1st Nov 2008, 10:51

No worries, I don't intend to apply, I'm quite happy where I am

neville_nobody

1st Nov 2008, 11:02

So if you really wanted to be pilot why didn't you go out there and give it a go?? Sure it might have taken time and if QF called you up in the meantime then you haven't lost anything? I reckon you would have been on the best sure thing in aviation. You had a guaranteed job in QF and you could have had a go in GA with no risk. Wish I had guarantees like that!

I think this is why there is this underlying tension between cadets and non cadets. Non cadets generally have battled hard to get where they are, whereas the cadets maybe just don't want it as bad.

griffy

2nd Nov 2008, 01:26

hey guys, can any1 answer my question 2 pages back? it would be great thanks:)

atminimums

2nd Nov 2008, 01:42

Griffy, I'll do my best.

1. for the Qantas Swinburne bachelor of aviation, i heard that 2nd to 3rd year uni students are offered places in the cadetship. if this is true, does any1 know is it only the best students are offered places depending on spaces available due to dropouts?how many places are offered and do they approach u or u have to go and apply for it?

Not sure about this one, but I am sure someone will know details.

2. what are the pass rate for cadets? do most of them pass into the workplacement program or only the top cadets go through?

I beleive it is fairly high, with only very few people dropping the course or being let go due to various reasons. I think most people understand the opportunity they have been given, and therefore give it everything they have to do well. If you make it through the course, all cadets SHOULD be offered CIPP positions, depending on recruitment and what not at the time.

3. can u minimise your time spent in the course by continuing classes during holiday breaks as a cadet? i know that normal uni students are offered the choice to finish faster by going to them.

Are you talking about the cadetship of the university side of the program? If its the uni work you are talking about, then its entirely up to the faculty/university, but most places seem to work something out with the students.

I am sure someone knows more than I do, but hopefully this cures your thirst for some info for the time being

mins :ok:

Keg

2nd Nov 2008, 02:24

So if you really wanted to be pilot why didn't you go out there and give it a go?? Sure it might have taken time and if QF called you up in the meantime then you haven't lost anything?

You assume that because I didn't get 'work' in aviation that I wasn't out there actually trying. I'll leave you with your assumptions neville. Personally I was quite pleased with the experiences I was able to get during that time frame- both flying and non-flying.

griffy

3rd Nov 2008, 10:22

hey thanks atminimums, it would be great if some1 can answer question 1 as thats my main question. This will determine if i go do an aviation course at uni :}

campdoag

3rd Nov 2008, 21:49

Hey Griffy why don't you do some research............ ring Qantas recruitment and ask..

atminimums

3rd Nov 2008, 23:02

Or better yet, call Swinburne. Not only will they be easier to get onto, but I am sure they will answer that question for you.

coke drinker

6th Nov 2008, 13:12

A lot of stories floating around atm...I don't want to give too much away because anybody who knows me will work it out quickly.

-You can get through the psych and skills testing with bugger all practice. Admittedly I was already a PPL holder the few times I did those tests, but in prep for the psych testing all I did was the questions in the pamphlet you can download the recruitment website.
-From experience, interviews vary greatly. One interview I was asked a whole heap of aviation questions and some with regards Qantas (make sure you know who the chief pilot and possibly his assistant are!). Another interview I was only asked about scenarios I had been in in which I had conflict and how I resolved it. (That can be hard if you're like me and just deal with a situation without agression)
-Make sure if you get selected you speak up. You're paying for it, if you're not getting what you need try and get it. Especially if you are going for level 2.
-For whomever asked it, I believe there was 7 started the latest QF course at FTA. Will it stay that way, that is the question...
-People don't, and won't look at you as special for getting the course. Harping on about it in post job interviews won't necessarily help you. If you end up on the street looking for work (been there) the only real interest is that you have ATPL Subjects and MECIR.
-Budget for extra costs too. FTA's (and I imagine GFS') course doesn't include ASL exams which are something in the vicinity of $1500. You're going to spend money on food too, that's a given. So give yourself budget there and make sure you have spending money to visit places, buy stuff like DVDs or what have you.

Has anyone heard whether the new QF course at FTA will be flying the BE-76 or DA-42?

damo1089

7th Nov 2008, 12:24

quote: 1. for the Qantas Swinburne bachelor of aviation, i heard that 2nd to 3rd year uni students are offered places in the cadetship. if this is true, does any1 know is it only the best students are offered places depending on spaces available due to dropouts?how many places are offered and do they approach u or u have to go and apply for it?

I'm doing the Swinburne one next year griffy, after failing the Qantas cadet ship stage two assessments. At the information night there was a tiny hint at the prospect of standard Swinburne aviation students being able to branch into the cadetship. I also know that there is absoluetely no difference between the Qantas Bachelor of Aviation 3 year cadetship and the stndard Swinburne course. The Qantas cadets do everything with the Swinburne students. As I am assuming that Qantas closely monitors it's cadets' progress, the Swinburne students would inadvertantly come into contact with Qantas recruitment. If you do the Swinburne course you can offset $83000 of the quoted $88000 (upon choosing instructor rating) course fee. If you do the cadetship, you are still up for somewhere around $50000 worth of upfront payments. Ill also point out that the training company General Flying Services is now also a branch of Oxford Aviation Academy, which I believe have a pretty good rep in the aviation world.
Might see ya next year ay?

griffy

7th Nov 2008, 14:33

ooooh, interesting damo1089!:)

yea i might do the bachelor course at uni either next year or the year after lol. i missed out this years cadetship interview so ill guess ill see how things go!

vh_bza

8th Nov 2008, 00:47

Been watching this thread for a while, I am a first year Swinburne aviation degree student, so from my experience here is some facts and advice:

3. can u minimise your time spent in the course by continuing classes during holiday breaks as a cadet? i know that normal uni students are offered the choice to finish faster by going to themAccording to the course planner which is on the password protected Swinburne student site the Associate Degree Qantas Cadets continue flying training and theory class through all holiday breaks, in order to finish in 18 months. The 3 year course cadets and other aviation students do not as many of the aviation subjects are not offered during the holiday breaks and so they are in it for the full 3 years.

1. for the Qantas Swinburne bachelor of aviation, i heard that 2nd to 3rd year uni students are offered places in the cadetship. if this is true, does any1 know is it only the best students are offered places depending on spaces available due to dropouts?how many places are offered and do they approach u or u have to go and apply for it?At the information night there was a tiny hint at the prospect of standard Swinburne aviation students being able to branch into the cadetship.Being a Swinburne student does not give you any advantage over anyone else when it comes to the cadetship. Even though the degree students and the 3 year cadets do the same subjects there is no link up, and you simply can't transfer over. You still have to apply to Qantas over the internet like everyone else, and do all the same testing and interview stages. Several first year students applied for the cadetship, and all failed at either stage 2 or stage 3.

I'm doing the Swinburne one next year griffy, after failing the Qantas cadet ship stage two assessments.Take this next comment as a peice of advice, not as an attack on yourself. Don't get yourself into the Swinburne degree, simply because it is what the Qantas cadets do. It is a long course and tough one from an academic point of view. You have to do the degree because you want it, not for any other reason. I know this comment sounds dumb, but everyone contemplating the Swinburne course should think long and hard about it. I have seen several guys, all with fantastic piloting skills, struggle in the swiburne course over the year. They will one day make great pilots, but not great academics. The course costs a lot of money in HECS, the uni subjects are expensive and it is vital that you know what you are getting yourself into.

At the information night there was...Don't believe anything you hear at the information night. A lot of the figures about there rates of employment after the course are made up. The fact that they have many lecturers from the industry can be a double edged sword. Many of the lecturers know there stuff back to front, and there great guys, but there not teachers and it can make the course quite difficult. There is also next to no help for struggling students.

I hope that I have answered some of the questions posted by other members of this board. Think long and hard before you join Swiburne. Overall it is a good course, but it just doesn't suite some people. Doing it, 'because it's what the Qantas Cadets do', is not a good reason and if you find it is not for you, then you can end up in a large financial hole.

Anyway, if anyone has anymore questions about the course, don't hesitate to ask:)

damo1089

8th Nov 2008, 04:27

thanks for the info on that vh_bza. I'm still going to do it, and wanted to do it even before I knew that it was the same thing as the three year cadetship. The degree and the academic study involved appeals to and interests me. Anyway, tell me any other flight training courses that allow you to put your flight training on feehelp...

griffy

8th Nov 2008, 08:15

wow, thanks vh_bza:ok:. those words u said made me rethink on what to do, the position im in is similar to damo1089. im interested in the course as well, but does anyone know if deakin or other Uni/TAFEs have the goverment help scheme for aviation courses?:confused:

kav116

9th Nov 2008, 02:00

guys,

this thread has been helpful, i wanted to confirm a few things

1. why is it that you have to pay some 50k cash for the course if its has a hecs offset of 80k??

2. can you guys confirm how many days the course in for swineborne? and also the cadets get to income from qantas during the time in melb?

3. what is the pay like when you move into the industry programe? and would u get paid if you had to wait for placement??

cheers, any help on the above would be great!!!:)

coke drinker

9th Nov 2008, 03:15

Can't answer all of those but I can say:

no money unless you are employed by somebody. If you have a "break" between course and CIPP, even if just a few weeks or a year you will not get paid. You will not get paid on your course. As for the pay, depends on who they stick you with for your CIPP (if anyone).

Carambar

9th Nov 2008, 05:17

I'm not 100% sure about this, but I would say the upfront costs on TOP of the deferred $80K is more around $30K. Swinburne has a description of the associate program quoting around $110K for the entire course (hence the additional upfront costs).

As for QF paying the cadets while undergoing training.....I'll let you figure that one out :E

With regards to CIPP - It all depends on the demand, etc at the time of graduation...some may not even be offered CIPP altogether. QF does not guarantee anything so you have to certain this is the right path for you before spending the $$.

Good luck :ok:

damo1089

9th Nov 2008, 07:17

however, working with averages, for CIPP, you will be typically placed in Qlink as a first officer on the standard first officer wages. After you fork out another $10g for your dash 8 rating :ugh:
However, the last bunch of cadets to graduate skipped industry placement, so they went straight into long haul QF operations as SOs. Imagine that.. some of those guys would have been 19 :sad:

Hugh Jarse

9th Nov 2008, 07:53

The facts are Damo that the current course of QF cadets got no placement into QLink, or any airline for that matter. They are out on the street.

They are unemployed awaiting the call from QF, as did a lot of the cadets of the early 90's.

Keg will elaborate further facts if you wish.

Some will go out and actively seek work, while others will sit around and wait for the call.

The circle of life continues :}

hotnhigh

9th Nov 2008, 08:52

Exactly, Hugh.
Nasty game this aviation industry sometimes. The planets are quickly aligning to lead most to believe that the time the cadets will spend in the wilderness during this forthcoming downturn will be long.
All current cadets that were only months from starting the dash work have been shown the reality of the situation first hand.
It's very quickly turning back into the early nineties scenario. No recruitment for a long, long time. ie years, boys and girls.

YCOY

9th Nov 2008, 21:23

flynavy28

10th Nov 2008, 03:14

I'm not sure how you can say that with any confidence YCOY given that the current downturn is without precedent. Surely if passenger numbers (particularly business passengers) decline considerably then cutbacks are inevitable, including reductions in, or delays to aircraft deliveries. Given that airlines were proclaiming a 'pilot shortage' only 5 months ago, I believe that long-term projections by anyone in the current economic situation are naive at best. I don't think there's an airline CEO out there (not even Alan Joyce) who could honestly say where pilot recruitment will be in a year or two.

"Place your bets now ladies and gentlemen, $140,000 on black or red....."

coke drinker

10th Nov 2008, 05:58

A prescribed waiting period is normal.

They probably will only have to wait 6 months or so.

Qantas recruiting will go ahead as normal, pilots are needed for all the new acft that are arriving/on order.

Get your applications in.
The problem with saying that is that there hasn't been a major "waiting period" to my knowledge since they brought in the CIPP and changed the whole setup.

liviaa380

10th Nov 2008, 09:39

Here's a thought or two for all those apprehensive cadets out there in "the wilderness" :{: Either wait as 'all good things come to those who wait'and remember that there's no guarantees; or WWW.AFAP.ORG.AU and follow the link for JOBS. I hear that some outback charter companies are looking for some 206 drivers. But this latter thought maybe too inferior for some.
All the best :}

Mstr Caution

10th Nov 2008, 09:48

I don't think there's an airline CEO out there (not even Alan Joyce) who could honestly say where pilot recruitment will be in a year or two

If you cant honestly say where recruitment may be in a year or two, then failing to gear up for recruitment may leave an airline without crew.

flynavy28

10th Nov 2008, 10:05

You're absolutely right Mstr Caution, that's why I believe Qantas management is happy to continue the cadet program even though there is a very real possibility that they will not be required for a considerable time to come. It would be foolish for them not to, given that the program is run at minimal expense to the company and insures Qantas against a turn around in the industry that requires an influx of new pilots. I don't want to appear overly negative here, I just feel that we should all have our eyes wide open to the reality of the situation when such large amounts of money are likely to be spent.

coke drinker

11th Nov 2008, 00:50

Here's a thought or two for all those apprehensive cadets out there in "the wilderness" http://static.pprune.org/images/smilies/boohoo.gif: Either wait as 'all good things come to those who wait'and remember that there's no guarantees; or WWW.AFAP.ORG.AU (http://www.afap.org.au/) and follow the link for JOBS. I hear that some outback charter companies are looking for some 206 drivers. But this latter thought maybe too inferior for some.
All the best
Can you blame anyone for not doing that given the garbage most of them are paid? It is a perfect example of why aviation will not succeed with Generation Y without major change. The Gen Y mindset is "I want to work weekdays so I can have fun with my friends/spouse on weekends. I want to be paid fairly for the job I do (and compensated appropriately for work outside normal hours). I won't work for someone who treat me inappropriately-I'm sufficiently qualified to find anoth industry job quickly. I'd rather find a job in another industry and get paid higher than beat around the bush for bugger all income." Given that this is a fairly common situation, is it a surprise that the amount of bush pilots is flagging? You pay someone total garbage, expect them to live in the middle of nowhere and then expect them to hang around? I'm not saying that all operators are like that but there is no denial that there are plenty of them.

liviaa380

11th Nov 2008, 03:12

To be able to enter into another industry requires something called experience, training or double degrees. Unfortunately the majority of cadets have only one such skill/degree. "I'm sufficiently qualified to find anoth industry job quickly":mad:.
All you have to do is google the words Gen Y and Economic Recession and find a plethora of sobering facts and theories about this supercilious bunch. Here's one such link Why Gen Y is Unprepared to Survive Recession | ITworld (http://www.itworld.com/career/57496/why-gen-y-unprepared-survive-recession)
So what your saying is that Gen Y don't want to work if it requires work :ugh: If that's the case then heaven help us all.

coke drinker

12th Nov 2008, 09:51

To be able to enter into another industry requires something called experience, training or double degrees. Unfortunately the majority of cadets have only one such skill/degree. "I'm sufficiently qualified to find anoth industry job quickly"http://static.pprune.org/images/smilies/censored.gif.
All you have to do is google the words Gen Y and Economic Recession and find a plethora of sobering facts and theories about this supercilious bunch. Here's one such link Why Gen Y is Unprepared to Survive Recession | ITworld (http://www.itworld.com/career/57496/why-gen-y-unprepared-survive-recession)
So what your saying is that Gen Y don't want to work if it requires work :ugh: If that's the case then heaven help us all.
What I see happening is going back 40 odd years where businesses worked Monday-Friday and schoolkids keep retail ticking over on weekends. I'm not saying they don't want to work, I'm saying as a generation they want to be fairly compensated (which is a justifiable attitude!). And an award wage in the vicinity of $30k can be construed as unfair when training costs in the vicinity of $80k out of pocket and your career continues to cost you gazillions in renewals, document costs, medicals, endorsements, ratings etc. It's not like you can put the flying on a HECS debt.

All these kids friends go to university and end result is they pick up a well paying job and haven't had to fork out the cost for training because the government has covered it. This is why so many young people are going to look at these cadet programmes as a boon. They will work hard to meet the elevated criteria because there is decent remuneration attached at the end of the course. And FWIW I know that there was a course recently that I think half of the cadets had university degrees!

What's more, these friends don't have to live out the back of Bourke to get work! So you can see general aviation doesn't stack up well. I know people at Parafield, and I'm told this lot were a very well behaved, excellent, bright bunch of cadets. There is no inferiority complex attached to any decisions (if they make them) to go or not to the middle of nowhere. It comes down to what is right for them lifestyle wise, economically, relationshipwise etc. This industry is not going to survive unless people change their attitudes and assuming everyone will go bush to achieve their aims is not going to wash with the new generation. Without major change the pilot shortage is going to get worse not better. The cadet programmes go part of the way to correct this.

2b2

12th Nov 2008, 10:44

Without major change the pilot shortage is going to get worse not better.

I think you'll find that "major change" is already here - and as usual those prepared to do the hard yards and make sacrifices will succeed.

garman

17th Nov 2008, 00:04

Hi guys/gals,

just wondering if anyone has recently done the panel interview for the Qantas Commercial Cadet Program, and what type of questions to expect? It says on the website that the interview will involve behavioural based questions, but also to understand the position of the second officer. Are the majority of questions behavioural with some about the role of the Second Officer, or are they still asking questions about general knowledge and aviation knowledge like "what does CAVOK mean?" or "who is the premier of NSW?".

Any info would be grealy appreciated!

Cheers, Garman:ok:

atminimums

17th Nov 2008, 00:50

garmin - Have a look at some of the posts on this forum, because those questions have been answered before..

But here is a quick rundown. I had purely behavioural questions on my interview, and it lasted about 50 minutes. At the end, they asked me what I knew about the duties of a 2nd officer. No technical questions were asked, although they did ask me about my opinion on a few of the events surrounding qantas in the media lately (my interview was the day after the a330 incident in WA).

best of luck,

mins :cool:

bill.lumbergh

18th Nov 2008, 02:30

QF22 were told they were going direct to mainline on A330 ops.

few months later...........QF23 have been told no placements at the moment....we'll call you!!

Any word on the fate of QF23?

garman

9th Dec 2008, 23:59

Hi guys, anyone here going through the selection process for the Autumn program? would be good to have a chat to someone who has had the flight test or is about to (like myself).

cheers:ok:

panzerd18

10th Dec 2008, 07:20

In regards to the Qantas Cadet Swinburne course, how long does it normally take for QF recruitment to advise you if you have been successful or unsuccessful after Stage 3 which is the panel interview?

phatmike128

10th Dec 2008, 08:20

panzerd18, all cadet applicants will be notified before xmas.

have your references been called?

Muff Hunter

10th Dec 2008, 08:30

Pooor Gen Y,

maybe they'll have to work like the rest of us had to, to have a career in aviation, instead of spending daddy's money on the QF cadet course and then given a free ticket onto a 747 earning plenty.

Suck sh!t i say, go and do your time in DRW/Outback like all who have come before and maybe you'll appreciate it when it's your turn!!

Also, from what I hear it may be some time before the existing cadets see the big birds (5 yrs) it's been said that the new CP doesn't care to much for them........

:):):):):):):):):):):):):):):)

panzerd18

10th Dec 2008, 08:58

Thanks for taking the time to reply to my post phatmike128. I do not believe my references have been called. I believe if I am recommended based on my interview scores, I will have to undertake a dental x-ray, Auscheck and reference check. I believe the Qantas Recruitment procedure (as per QF website) is if you have not heard within three weeks after your assessment you should give them a call which I may have to do.

brown_hornet

10th Dec 2008, 09:31

Nice one muff but we've heard it all before! :zzz:

Bo777

10th Dec 2008, 10:05

Hey BH just wondering how long you were sitting on a LOI for? Totally off the subject.....but who cares.

brown_hornet

11th Dec 2008, 10:32

Bo777,

I didn't acually receive a LOI so can't give you kind of information you would like. Know a few guys who have been 'sitting' on a letter since May / June though and were told to expect a feb start but looks like they may be waiting a little longer than that now.

cdp1981

14th Dec 2008, 23:53

Hi

I've just been through the final stage of the selection process (interview and medical) for the 2009 cadetship, and have to decide whether to accept or not if I receive an offer.

If I accept I will have to borrow a huge sum of money to pay for the training and my living costs for the 18 months. This would mean I would be saddled with loan repayments of $300 to $400 a week as well as HECS-HELP repayments.

Could somebody tell me how much I would be likely to earn as a S/O for the first 1-5 years ? I have done half of a law degree and as much as I would love to fly airliners I have to ask myself whether it is potentially a financially ruinous career option given the coming recession and peak oil shock.

Also, is it true that the CIPP is being scrapped and that cadets are going straight into Qantas mainline after graduating from Swinburne ?

And further, could anybody tell me whether I would have to move to Sydney upon joining Qantas ? (I currently live in Melbourne)

max1

15th Dec 2008, 01:41

cdp1981,
Why didn't you ask these questions at the interview?

cudza101

15th Dec 2008, 02:03

Cdp,

As max1 points out, you probably should have asked a couple of those questions in the interview, but, generally:

- you can find indicative pay scales by searching these forums and I also think there's a document on the recruitment website which gives a vague idea; the figures differ according to fleet type etc.

- in terms of whether embarking on the career would be "financially ruinous" I think that's a question you have to answer but it's fair to say that a HECS debt seems quite minor against the cost of flight training!

- it seems that the situation with the CIPP is changing constantly due to a myriad of factors and you would really need to get advice on this; moreover, it would be inadvisable to assume that you'd be going straight from the cadetship into mainline - particularly given the current economic conditions

- lastly it is possible to commute to Sydney as a S/O depending on your fleet allocation; I think it's quite common from Melbourne and also from Brisbane but I'll stand corrected

I hope this helps.

cdp1981

15th Dec 2008, 02:41

Yes, thanks for the reply.

I suppose I should have asked the question about relocation at the interview. As for the salary question, I avoided it as I didn't want to give them the impression that I was doing it because I was money hungry as opposed to doing it for love (since they want people who are passionate about flying and all that).

Regarding the salary, Q told us at the Cadet Information Session in August that it was $80-120K for a S/O, which is a huge range. I assumed that 767 S/Os (do they have them?) would be at the lower end of that range and that 747-400 S/Os would be at the upper end. You can live fairly well on $80K generally; not so well if you've got a $400 a week loan to pay off!

biggles7374

15th Dec 2008, 04:04

cdp

First of all congratulations on getting this far through the selection process, that in itself is an achievement.

I will make the following comments for you to consider:

It is not yet known whether Qantas are scrapping the CIPP element of the cadetship or even whether they are considering it.

There have been no Swinburne Graduations yet as far as I know because the scheme was only introduced last year. However, QF22 (Commercial Stream) were told they were going straight to mainline due to there not being any vacancies in QLink for their CIPP. QF23 who graduated a few months later were told no vacancies anywhere either in QF or QLink and were advised to find a job themselves until vacancies appear. No timescale has been given to them at this stage. I am unsure whether QF22 have actually started their course at mainline or whether this has also been deferred.

What you need to consider is whether the situation will be like this in 18 months when you finish. Unless you have a crystal ball all you can do is make a reasoned assumption on any outcome.

At worst the economic climate will be similar to what is now and there will be no vacancies and you will have to secure your own job in GA for a period of time. Once loan and HECS repayments have been made there is not going to be much left unless you do not reach the HECS repayment thresholds.

At best you will immediately be taken into mainline and as a very junior SO you can expect to be on the bottom of the payscale (circa $70k?). Once loan and HECS repayments have been made there is a reasonable amount left to live on but likely to be based in Sydney I would guess - although you may land lucky.

Go for the middle ground and you will undertake a CIPP with QFLink for 2 years as per the program's current structure on a FO wage of just under $50k per annum. Once loan and HECS repayments have been made there will be a small amount left to live on.

Have you considered finishing your law degree first? I do not know how old you are but it sounds as though you certainly have age on your side. Until the economy settles down and things become more certain a degree gained now in the lean times may make good use of what is being seen as a lean period and will also provide a good skills safety net for later.

Whatever you decide, make the plan and stick to it even through the hard times but always have contigency plans just in case. It will definately be worth it in the end.

Good Luck with your deliberations

*Lancer*

15th Dec 2008, 04:33

Cdp,

S/Os are carried on the B744, A380, and A330. All are based in Sydney, though you can commute from other cities. Initial training is based in Sydney and takes about 2-3 months. Stafftravel is only available after 6 months and costs about $125 return, J/C from Melbourne, space available. Many people do it, but it takes a bit of getting used to, if that's your choice.

You could budget on roughly $70k for the first year, and add $20k pa up to $130(A330) $150 (A380/B744), gross total. The actual amount varies considerably based on fleet type, amount of flying, overtime, and how you spend allowances. You can check with mates/PMs etc from actual, recently junior S/Os for more accurate figures. The Qantas LH EBA7 is in the public domain. The minimum number of credit hours, under normal circumstances is 960pa, (give or take for sims/blank lines etc), plus allowances, plus overtime. Headline rates are likely to increase by 9% sometime next year.

Pay on the CIPP (which still exists), is considerably less.

Altimeters

15th Dec 2008, 04:39

Can confirm Q22 started their mainline courses on time and Q23 (as correctly stated previously) have been told to find alternate work. As for the current cadets (QC1) they haven't been told what will happen to them however it doesn't look like they are getting a mainline or qlink slot upon finishing in a couple of months time.

cdp1981

15th Dec 2008, 05:33

Thanks everyone for the comments - very useful.

So Lancer, does that mean that if I commute to work as a staff member I have to pay a fare for each return trip of about $125 ? Might be better to just relocate to Sydney!

panzerd18

15th Dec 2008, 06:38

Has anyone who has applied for the 2009 Swinburne Associate Degree Cadetship had their references checked and been asked to provide a dental x-ray/criminal record check yet?

Many Thanks,

Panzerd18

Melflyer

15th Dec 2008, 06:49

From what I have heard, the Degree Cadets for 2009 should be notified by Christmas and the Associate sometime in early January which usually extends to late January. As for the Criminal record checks/dental x-ray, is this a stage that is usually undertaken before or after reference checks have been done? Is it common for someone to provide a dental x-ray and have criminal record checks done and still miss out on a place?

Cheers,

Melflyer

jko10

15th Dec 2008, 07:21

i have a similar experience as a few of you, having had my references checked and also submitted the dental x ray, etc, but yet to receive notification...

from what i heard, pilot recruitment office is closing end of this week so perhaps some sort of notification will be coming our ways this week...

cdp1981

15th Dec 2008, 07:25

Does anybody know how many Captains are nearing retirement age or likely to retire over the next 5-10 years (or if not, could you offer a guess ?)

MTBUR

15th Dec 2008, 08:34

Melflyer: yeah...if you don't pass them! :eek:

word is that before christmas people may be contacted, but as per the selection schedule the date of notification still remains Jan 2nd. Most of you have waited a few months, what is just over a week going to matter?

Good luck to everyone out there, hope regardless of your plans you're happy with the end results

MTBUR

Keg

15th Dec 2008, 09:30

Does anybody know how many Captains are nearing retirement age or likely to retire over the next 5-10 years

These numbers have been quoted before elsewhere. They do NOT include 737 crew because I don't have access to their figures. There are about 70 longhaul crew aged 60 or older now. There are an additional 140 aged 55-59. An additional 230 are aged 50-54.

The long term average is 30-50 per annum retirements. The retirement age for international flying as a Captain is 65. You can go beyond that as a domestic pilot and we had a number flying over 60 on the 767 before the rules changed and some of them were able to go back to the 744. Also, there are 13 F/Os on the 744 over the age of 60. I think they can keep flying as long as they hold a medical and keep passing the checks.

panzerd18

15th Dec 2008, 09:56

Melflyer (http://www.pprune.org/members/229599-melflyer) to answer your question yes as per the Qantas Website.

Stage 6:

The candidate will supply a dental x-ray and submit documentation to enable an Australian Federal Police (AFP) Criminal History Check and an AUSCHECK clearance. Reference checks will be conducted by Qantas and the application will be subject to a full review by senior management personnel. A non-refundable fee of A$104.50 is payable for the Criminal History, Politically Motivated Violence and Citizenship Check.
Candidates who are strongly competitive at this stage may receive a written offer of a place on the Cadet Pilot course

legaleagle73

15th Dec 2008, 10:50

Cdp

I've got all of a law degree and turned down a Qantas cadetship some years ago after my (then) wife made it clear that she didn't want to move to Sydney. I've gone on to have a good career as a lawyer. My advice would be not to worry too much about the money but really think about what you want to do. Flying planes isn't all glamour (difficult hours, constant checks etc) and neither is law. Unless you end up as a partner at a big firm (which is, to be blunt, unlikely) or a top barrister you will earn as much as a Qantas pilot as you will as a lawyer. Follow your heart!

Cheers :)

CoolCat

15th Dec 2008, 11:01

-edit-

sorry I didn't know one was a bachelor degree and one was an associate degree...

anyway, is it possible to become a QANTAS pilot by doing the swinburne associate degree which requires only a pass in further mathematics although QANTAS usually want at least a pass in mathematical methods?

and if so, does it require an up front cost of $48,400 out of your own pocket to enrol on top of the help you get from HECS AND FEE?

I think the bachelor degree one only requires $26,774 and is that because the program goes for 3 years rather than 1.5 ?

LJay

16th Dec 2008, 05:46

I applied for the 2008 ab initio cadetship, did the interview etc, provided dental x-rays and had the security checks at about this time last year. I found out in Jan this year that I was unsuccessful. I hadn't been asked for work references and flying instructor references. It's seems odd to go through all those checks then be rejected, but it happened! I'm hoping my application for the 2009 program will have a successful outcome.

Melflyer

16th Dec 2008, 06:20

LJay,

That's exactly what I was getting at in my previous post, probably not the response I wanted to hear though. Oh well, will have to wait and see! Hope it goes well for you.

Cheers,

Melflyer

panzerd18

16th Dec 2008, 08:08

Hi Melflyer, how do you know that Associate degree Cadets will be told sometime in early January which usually extends to late January? Is it normal to extend into late January? I thought the final date were offers will be made is 2nd January?

B747ERNG

16th Dec 2008, 12:31

Hi guys,
I've done a few ATPL subjects, will I be disadvantaged from applying the commercial cadet program?

thanks:ok:

coke drinker

16th Dec 2008, 12:37

Mr 747...I have known people who have done all ATPL subjects and still done the CPL Cadet course. I think if you have done more than half of them, you may be wasting your hard earned. I was told that all cadets and I use the term loosely are required to attend all subject lessons, even if they have already attained passes in the CASA examinations. Apparently they had to do some sort of internal assessment in each subject.

biggles7374

16th Dec 2008, 19:52

Coke Drinker.

That is correct. And given that about half of the $45k course fees are for ATPL groundschool I am sure you could think of better ways to spend $22k than on studying subjects that you have already studied for an passed.

Oddly however I wonder if application are seen as more competetive if some / all ATPL subjects have already been passed?

Biggles

coke drinker

16th Dec 2008, 22:37

Biggles...I was told by the person with all his ATPLS, that most of his course had done none or one only. (usually Human Factors)

Hugh Gorgen

17th Dec 2008, 04:19

Cdp,

I understand your predictament.
I too commenced a law degree and then opted for an aviation career.
I have never regretted my decision and have friends in the legal profession earning less and working much longer hours.
WRT Qantas pay. Initially it is between 70-100K for the first 18 months and then kicks up substantially to around 130-150K. As mentioned, it does depend on the fleet you are allocated to and the allowances that you save. I know guys who save $1000 per month (cash) in allowances alone. (I personally save $1 - hmmm).

Communting from Melbourne is easy. A very large number of guys do. You can use staff travel to fund the flying, however Qantas also allows you to offset paxing sectors to achieve this (long story). The point is, you will not be paying for every MEL -SYD-MEL trip, only occasional ones. (It gets easier the more senior you become).
My personal opinion , as was mentioned, is follow your heart. A qantas cadetship is a prized achievement. It is a much more attractive proposition than bashing around GA for 10 years earning 25K pa in clapped out C210s.

Hope some of this helps.

cdp1981

17th Dec 2008, 06:25

Hugh Gorgen and others, thanks for the helpful comments.

I guess there's no doubt that my heart is in it- I would rather fly jets for Qantas than be a lawyer; I still have fears about the economic situation and the coming peak oil problem. I guess I am worried that I might borrow a substantial sum of money for my Swinburne etc. training and then end up with a huge debt and no job in 2 or 3 years time.

Still, nobody has a crystal ball I guess...

coke drinker

17th Dec 2008, 08:04

CDP...that is the ridiculous part of all of these programmes. How you can run a cadet programme and not guarantee a job at the end of it is beyond me. I can understand incompetence on the student's part-but none, if any of them are incompetent!

Icarus53

17th Dec 2008, 11:30

$22k than on studying subjects that you have already studied for an passed.

Don't know which course you did mate, but we did not pay $22k for ATPL instruction. Although ATPL took up about half of the total course time, it was one of the smallest items on the bill. Without going a checking my records, I believe it was in the order of $8k, including ASA exam fees (which really rack up over time).

atminimums

17th Dec 2008, 23:30

Just got a pretty negative email from QANTAS regarding changes to all cadetships commencing in 2009. Did anyone else get this email?

Apparently, the changes affect all cadetships, regardless of type, commencing next year. Before you ask me to copy and paste, know that it was marked private and confidential, but I might be able to go into some more detail.

mins. (no thumbs up this time)

biggles7374

17th Dec 2008, 23:55

Hi atminimums

Was it sent to you as a cadet applicant / potential cadet applicant or in some other status?

Biggles

atminimums

18th Dec 2008, 00:01

Biggles,

I am a cadet applicant, but have finished all of the stages and am pretty sure I am in. Essentially, in the email they give you the option of either continuing with the program, or withdrawing now.

mins

biggles7374

18th Dec 2008, 00:07

Hi Atmins

Congrats on getting this far.

Guess they figure that everyone has invested time and money in the selection process and do not want to offer places to applicants only for them to turn round and say sorry - can't take it because the future certainty of employment is not sufficient enough to justify the amount of investment required - which will have to be repaid regardless of future employment status. A debt with accruing interest with insufficient means to repay is a hard mountain to climb - not impossible but hard. Been there, done that, got the T-Shirt!!!

At least Qantas are being open with people about the situation and presenting the facts and allowing individuals to consider their options.

I would not expect you or anyone to break any confidences but without going into detail are their any major changes to the programme planned? - yes or no would be fine!! :-)

Good Luck with your deliberations.

Biggles