cbavoidance
5th Nov 2001, 22:49
For those of you unfamiliar with the original post, it concerns an incident in Rome on an Air Europe 767 where the purser was removed by the Captain and a subsequent reply from an individual calling himself "Sir Scruggs".
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The dealy in response to "Sir" Scruggs has been due to a cruise holiday which was much nicer than a week in the Maldives and made all the more enjoyable by the lack of any Italian passengers.
Scruggs, I am not going to call you Sir, I doubt that you would ever be worthy of the KBE. You are, I am certain, Uncle Bob, an ex-BA pilot who was never given a command (for whatever reason). You are now prostituting yourself at Air Europe for a mere pittance while collecting a fat BA pension and the chance to realize your unfulfilled goal at BA (even though they only let you fly ferry flights). Your willingness to work for such a pittance does nothing for your colleagues, all of who are are trying to increase the very low salaries at AE to that of at least industry standard. Additionally, your continued recruitment of ex-BA pilots prevents any hope of upgrade to the many expatriate First Officers at AE.
I'll address some of your geriatric dribble, the rest does not dignify a response. First though, I would caution you against your use of such words as "stolen " and "absconding", neither of which apply. At this time of high alert the "authorities" will not take kindly to you wasting their time with false and malicious accusations resulting from an employment dispute. You may very well find yourself in trouble with the "authorities", notwithstanding any civil action that may be taken.
Pilots are sacked from airlines every day, some are legitimate sackings while some are not. It is clear that your narrow, senile, mind believes that every sacking is legitimate (how did you ever get any one to fly with you at BA?).
Let me enlighten you regarding a section of employment law which you wrongly believe has been broken; "Any person dismissed is entitled to keep all items issued (note: ISSUED) to them until such time as they are paid outstanding salary, expenses and allowances in full."
Such action is NOT against the law and most would consider it a prudent move. You are living in a fantasy world if you expect any contract pilot to hand back manuals, uniform, etc. when they are owed thousands of dollars. AE and apparantly you, are just upset because some one other than an Italian has gotten the upper hand (this is unusual, most ex-pats are shafted by the Italians at Air Europe).
As for your comments regarding computers containing "sensitive information", I found that quite amusing, as I am sure every AE pilot did who has been issued a computer.
Would you please spare us from remarks such as "my government sources". Such statements are farcical and serve only to boost your already grossly over-inflated, pompous ego.
Let me also enlighten you regarding the CAA in this matter; under no circumstances will they become involved in an employment dispute. The CAA may, however, be very interested in learning the facts as to why an aircraft commander was sacked and left stranded for following the directives in an approved Operation Manual relating to aircraft security. I may also submit other reports to the CAA, e.g. 1. Electrical smoke in the cockpit at POP and the previous lack of any log book entries relating to this item. 2. Why a passenger was allowed to return on an AE flight after he had tried to force his way into the cockpit on the outbound leg. 3. The many incidents of passengers smoking in the toilet with no action being taken.
I have very reliable sources still working at AE and as you know, incidents abound at Air Europe.
I have copied the original submitted report regarding the removal of the purser at FCO for all to see. You will find the applicable references contained within the AE Operations Manual. For those of you that have questioned the CRM in this incident, one basic prerequisite of CRM is dialogue. The purser in question refused to enter into any dialogue and subsequently follow the aircraft commander's instructions. That is why he was ultimately removed.
Sadly, from some of the responses, there appears to be some very weak aircraft commanders out there. I advise you not to relinquish your command authority. I know times are tough, but please have some self-respect.
Also, readers should be aware that on arrival in Male the Captain (an ex-pat) was sacked and left stranded. The purser (an Italian) returned to Milan where he was assigned another flight and no action has been taken against him.
As for Blue Fox, I reiterate my earlier statement; another UK airline, another opportunity for foreign nationals to fly in the UK.
Perhaps we will all eventually have to work illegally in Chicago as bartenders...Dohh!
In conclusion, I urge YOU, Uncle Bob, to heed the following advice; do not f**k with me, you will be left with your colonostomy bag hanging between your legs.
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To: Director of Operations - AE
From: Captain XXXXXXX
Date: 2 October 2001
Subject: Mr. XXXXXXX - Removal from PE7924
On 1 October 2001, I was designated aircraft commander of Air Europe flight PE7924, MXP-FCO-MLE.
On arrival in FCO from MXP I attempted to de-brief Mr. XXXXXX concerning the following;
1. Why he had not reported to me the correct passenger count from MXP.
2. Why he had upgraded passengers holding economy tickets to first class without prior approval.
3. Why he had brought a passenger to the flight deck without my permission.
4. Why he was so late in reporting "cabin secure for landing" when there were only 14 passengers total and his insubordination when doing so.
5. His general attitude.
I called Mr. XXXXXX to the flight deck to discuss the above. When I began talking, Mr. XXXXX interrupted me, raised his voice and pointed his finger at me. I instructed Mr. XXXXX several times to keep quite and let me finish what I had to say. Mr. XXXXX refused to follow my instruction and continued to be insubordinate (ref AE Operation Manual sec.1.5.4.1.1).
Due to Mr. XXXXX behavior, refusal to be de-briefed, insubordination and my concern regarding his potential conduct for the 9 hour flight ahead, I decided to remove him from the flight and informed of such (ref JAR OPS sec 1.085 2 and 3).
I instructed the number 2 cabin attendant to obtain all necessary information and items from Mr. XXXXXX to complete the flight. I then contacted Air Europe operations to notify them of the situation and continued my duties to prepare the aircraft for flight(ref AE Operations Manual sec 4.1.3.3.).
I received authorization to continue the flight from the Director of Operations via cell phone (ref AE Operations Manual 4.1.3.1).
After returning from the exterior aircraft inspection and fuel coordination (30 mintues), Mr. XXXXXX was still on the aircraft talking to the cabin crew. My First Officer informed me that some of the crew were upset after talking to Mr. XXXXX. I told Mr. XXXXX that his presence was causing dissension and upset amongst the cabin crew and instructed him to leave the aircraft and jet-way area. Mr. XXXXX left the aircraft and stood on the jet-way at the forward entry door, he told me that I had no authority over him while he was on the jet-way. I was very concerned that Mr. XXXXX would disrupt the boarding of the passengers. Again, I instructed Mr. XXXXXX to leave the area. Mr. XXXXX again, refused to follow my instructions. The police were called and I requested that they remove Mr. XXXXX from the jet-way area and prevent him from entering the aircraft without my permission.
Additionally, a Police Officer attending the aircraft informed me that Mr. XXXXX stated that he intends to bring legal action against Air Europe and myself regarding his removal from the aircraft. If this is indeed what Mr. XXXXX intends to do, I would request that you instruct Mr. XXXXX to read the applicable sections of the Air Europe Operation Manual and JAR regulations before making such foolish statements. Mr. XXXXXX will find the duties of a Senior Cabin Crewmember and my authority to remove him from the flight clearly defined therin.
Please contact me if you require any further information.
Captain XXXXXXX
cc: B767 Fleet Manager
********************
***************
The dealy in response to "Sir" Scruggs has been due to a cruise holiday which was much nicer than a week in the Maldives and made all the more enjoyable by the lack of any Italian passengers.
Scruggs, I am not going to call you Sir, I doubt that you would ever be worthy of the KBE. You are, I am certain, Uncle Bob, an ex-BA pilot who was never given a command (for whatever reason). You are now prostituting yourself at Air Europe for a mere pittance while collecting a fat BA pension and the chance to realize your unfulfilled goal at BA (even though they only let you fly ferry flights). Your willingness to work for such a pittance does nothing for your colleagues, all of who are are trying to increase the very low salaries at AE to that of at least industry standard. Additionally, your continued recruitment of ex-BA pilots prevents any hope of upgrade to the many expatriate First Officers at AE.
I'll address some of your geriatric dribble, the rest does not dignify a response. First though, I would caution you against your use of such words as "stolen " and "absconding", neither of which apply. At this time of high alert the "authorities" will not take kindly to you wasting their time with false and malicious accusations resulting from an employment dispute. You may very well find yourself in trouble with the "authorities", notwithstanding any civil action that may be taken.
Pilots are sacked from airlines every day, some are legitimate sackings while some are not. It is clear that your narrow, senile, mind believes that every sacking is legitimate (how did you ever get any one to fly with you at BA?).
Let me enlighten you regarding a section of employment law which you wrongly believe has been broken; "Any person dismissed is entitled to keep all items issued (note: ISSUED) to them until such time as they are paid outstanding salary, expenses and allowances in full."
Such action is NOT against the law and most would consider it a prudent move. You are living in a fantasy world if you expect any contract pilot to hand back manuals, uniform, etc. when they are owed thousands of dollars. AE and apparantly you, are just upset because some one other than an Italian has gotten the upper hand (this is unusual, most ex-pats are shafted by the Italians at Air Europe).
As for your comments regarding computers containing "sensitive information", I found that quite amusing, as I am sure every AE pilot did who has been issued a computer.
Would you please spare us from remarks such as "my government sources". Such statements are farcical and serve only to boost your already grossly over-inflated, pompous ego.
Let me also enlighten you regarding the CAA in this matter; under no circumstances will they become involved in an employment dispute. The CAA may, however, be very interested in learning the facts as to why an aircraft commander was sacked and left stranded for following the directives in an approved Operation Manual relating to aircraft security. I may also submit other reports to the CAA, e.g. 1. Electrical smoke in the cockpit at POP and the previous lack of any log book entries relating to this item. 2. Why a passenger was allowed to return on an AE flight after he had tried to force his way into the cockpit on the outbound leg. 3. The many incidents of passengers smoking in the toilet with no action being taken.
I have very reliable sources still working at AE and as you know, incidents abound at Air Europe.
I have copied the original submitted report regarding the removal of the purser at FCO for all to see. You will find the applicable references contained within the AE Operations Manual. For those of you that have questioned the CRM in this incident, one basic prerequisite of CRM is dialogue. The purser in question refused to enter into any dialogue and subsequently follow the aircraft commander's instructions. That is why he was ultimately removed.
Sadly, from some of the responses, there appears to be some very weak aircraft commanders out there. I advise you not to relinquish your command authority. I know times are tough, but please have some self-respect.
Also, readers should be aware that on arrival in Male the Captain (an ex-pat) was sacked and left stranded. The purser (an Italian) returned to Milan where he was assigned another flight and no action has been taken against him.
As for Blue Fox, I reiterate my earlier statement; another UK airline, another opportunity for foreign nationals to fly in the UK.
Perhaps we will all eventually have to work illegally in Chicago as bartenders...Dohh!
In conclusion, I urge YOU, Uncle Bob, to heed the following advice; do not f**k with me, you will be left with your colonostomy bag hanging between your legs.
********************
To: Director of Operations - AE
From: Captain XXXXXXX
Date: 2 October 2001
Subject: Mr. XXXXXXX - Removal from PE7924
On 1 October 2001, I was designated aircraft commander of Air Europe flight PE7924, MXP-FCO-MLE.
On arrival in FCO from MXP I attempted to de-brief Mr. XXXXXX concerning the following;
1. Why he had not reported to me the correct passenger count from MXP.
2. Why he had upgraded passengers holding economy tickets to first class without prior approval.
3. Why he had brought a passenger to the flight deck without my permission.
4. Why he was so late in reporting "cabin secure for landing" when there were only 14 passengers total and his insubordination when doing so.
5. His general attitude.
I called Mr. XXXXXX to the flight deck to discuss the above. When I began talking, Mr. XXXXX interrupted me, raised his voice and pointed his finger at me. I instructed Mr. XXXXX several times to keep quite and let me finish what I had to say. Mr. XXXXX refused to follow my instruction and continued to be insubordinate (ref AE Operation Manual sec.1.5.4.1.1).
Due to Mr. XXXXX behavior, refusal to be de-briefed, insubordination and my concern regarding his potential conduct for the 9 hour flight ahead, I decided to remove him from the flight and informed of such (ref JAR OPS sec 1.085 2 and 3).
I instructed the number 2 cabin attendant to obtain all necessary information and items from Mr. XXXXXX to complete the flight. I then contacted Air Europe operations to notify them of the situation and continued my duties to prepare the aircraft for flight(ref AE Operations Manual sec 4.1.3.3.).
I received authorization to continue the flight from the Director of Operations via cell phone (ref AE Operations Manual 4.1.3.1).
After returning from the exterior aircraft inspection and fuel coordination (30 mintues), Mr. XXXXXX was still on the aircraft talking to the cabin crew. My First Officer informed me that some of the crew were upset after talking to Mr. XXXXX. I told Mr. XXXXX that his presence was causing dissension and upset amongst the cabin crew and instructed him to leave the aircraft and jet-way area. Mr. XXXXX left the aircraft and stood on the jet-way at the forward entry door, he told me that I had no authority over him while he was on the jet-way. I was very concerned that Mr. XXXXX would disrupt the boarding of the passengers. Again, I instructed Mr. XXXXXX to leave the area. Mr. XXXXX again, refused to follow my instructions. The police were called and I requested that they remove Mr. XXXXX from the jet-way area and prevent him from entering the aircraft without my permission.
Additionally, a Police Officer attending the aircraft informed me that Mr. XXXXX stated that he intends to bring legal action against Air Europe and myself regarding his removal from the aircraft. If this is indeed what Mr. XXXXX intends to do, I would request that you instruct Mr. XXXXX to read the applicable sections of the Air Europe Operation Manual and JAR regulations before making such foolish statements. Mr. XXXXXX will find the duties of a Senior Cabin Crewmember and my authority to remove him from the flight clearly defined therin.
Please contact me if you require any further information.
Captain XXXXXXX
cc: B767 Fleet Manager
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