IMC or full IR

[mark8647]

Hello all,

i am currently about half way through my PPL and i am am now considering what is going to be the best way to further my experience.
I have always said that i want to do the night rating but i would also like to do an IR.

I was just wandering if you could do a full IR without doing an IMC course first because that is what i want and dont see the point of paying for a IMC if i dont have too.

I would really appreciate your help and if you could also tell me what hours your required to have as P1 before you can take the IR.

Many thanks:ok:

[ARENDIII]

Sir,
It sounds as though you reside in the UK.
I can only speak from what I know in South Africa-here we do not recognise an IMC rating, it is IR or nothing
I woul'd strongly reccomend that you go for the full blown IR, maybe a lot more work but it sounds as though you woul'd like to carry on and go commercial. If this is the case-the only way is full IR and then multi with IR (there is a difference!)
Regardless-Good Luck and I hope it all works for you.:D

[mark8647]

Thanks for your response,

I would love to go commercial in the future but for now i just think that any additional rating can only be good for experience and ultimatley make me a better, safer pilot.

i do also live in the u.k.

many thanks for your reply:)

[stellair]

mark,

Get that IMC :). It's a great introduction to Instruments, unique to the UK, cheaper and is a priceless rating should you ever need to use it in anger for clearing bad weather or getting into an airfield in less than perfect VMC during your hour building to C.P.L.

When I did mine I had a very experienced instructor and he made me fly to IR limits which gave me a great leg up for things to come. If you are only half way through your PPL then concerntrate on that, pass it, get the IMC next, fly with friends as a lookout while you practice with the foggles on, build your hours, pass your ATPL exams, then worry about the CPL and IR as it's a bit too early for consideration yet. Just my opinion and others mays differ but I think that would seem most sensible at this point. Most of all enjoy it, hope it all works out for you :ok:

[dontpressthat]

Yep.. I'm with stellair on that one.
I would have said that an IR straight after PPL is a tough one. Speaking from experience I wouldve been totally lost making the jump from PPL to IR. The experince gained hours building and on the CPL is invaluble preperation for the IR.

IMO.. Get your PPL under your belt, get a few hours in the log book then go IMC and after that whatever route suits you best.

Good luck

DPT

[Contacttower]

The IMC rating isn't needed to do the IR...at all. But what a lot of people do if they want to go commercial is do the PPL, then night, then the IMC which means they usually get through any hour building they need to do quicker before starting the CPL.

[dontpressthat]

Although if the intention is to go comercial e.g. CPL/IR why do an IMC?

PPL.. hours building.. CPL then either IR or MEP/IR would be the most popular route.

DPT

[5150]

I'm with dontpressthat.

There's no point doing an IMC if you're going to do an IR. Bear in mind also, that a single engine IR is not transferable across to a Multi engine IR, so you'd have to go thru it all again, all at an extra and unnecessary cost.

The IMC is a lot cheaper than an IR. I had an IMC prior to getting a multi engine IR, but there was a 6 year gap between the two ratings. It certainly helped, but I wouldn't spend the money on two ratings if I could help it.

[stellair]

mark,

If you take 5150s advice you may want to 'hour build' abroad for the good weather and much cheaper. Traditionally people leave the IR to the last as mentioned by DPT :ok:

[mark8647]

Thanks everyone for the helpful replies,

Just one last thing then, do you have to do your ATPL exams before your CPL?:bored:

[MIKECR]

yes, thats correct

[5150]

You can do CPL exams prior to CPL also. . . .

[TractorBoy]

Isn't doing the IMC a bit of a gamble at the moment - I understood its currently under threat.

[Justiciar]

single engine IR is not transferable across to a Multi engine IR


I don't believe that is correct. You have to convert to multi IR but the conversion is about 5 hours of flying, I believe (and do a twin rating as well of course).

I found the IMC a tremendous way of improving my general flying skills. However, if you are going commercial you need to decide when and whether it is worth doing the IMCR. To do the IR you need to have done the exams first. You can either do the stand alone IR exams, of which there are 7, or do the full ATPL course with 14 exams if you are going straight on to CPL and IR. Remember that you have 36 months from the passing of the last exam to complete the CPL and IR, so don't do them unless you are sure you want to go ahead.

[Slopey]

Well, you either spend £1.5-2k, and get on with flying with the IMCR which may or may not be defunct in a couple of years, or you spend £6-10k to get the IR.

If you're going commercial there's probably not a lot of point getting the IMCR.

If you're not, and adding this to a PPL, £6-10k is a hell of a lot of money to spend opposed to £2k, and even for a few years, it lets you get on with it (unless you need the full IR for class A/airways access. But if you do you can likely afford it).

However, if you're a PPL and money and time is no object, then by all means, do the IR - for the rest of us flying on a budget, the IMCR gives 2 years (at least, hopefully) instrument flying at a very reasonable price.

Also -

Bear in mind also, that a single engine IR is not transferable across to a Multi engine IR, so you'd have to go thru it all again, all at an extra and unnecessary cost.

No - From LASORS:

SE IR(A) to ME IR(A)*
a. 5 hours instrument time under instruction in ME aeroplanes, which may include (b);
b. 3 hours in FNPT II or Flight Simulator if approved by CAA;
c. Pass a ME IR(A) Skill Test with a UK CAA Staff Flight Examiner.

* The holder of a SE IR(A) wishing to upgrade to ME IR(A) shall either hold a multi-engine type/class rating, or have at least completed an approved course of training for the ME class rating.

[julian_storey]

Alternatively go to the States and get yourself an FAA IR.

With the exchange rate as it is, it won't cost you much more than an IMC rating.

Then . . .

1) The CAA will 'give' you an IMC rating (for 70 quid)

2) You can exercise full IR priviliges in an 'N' reg aeroplane (there are plenty around for hire).

3) Because you will already have an ICAO IR, if you ultimately decide that you need a European IR, it will be considerably cheaper to 'upgrade' from that to a European one than to start from scratch.

[wsmempson]

Sorry, meant to post on the EASA thread....

[bookworm]

c. Pass a ME IR(A) Skill Test with a UK CAA Staff Flight Examiner.

And the Skill Test for the upgrade from SE IR(A) is (or at least was when I did it in 2004) a much shorter test involving just 2 approaches and a circle to land. The CAA fee is the same though.

Since the ME IR(A) course is 5 hours longer, there is in effect no extra training overhead in getting the SE IR(A) first, just the test and issues fees to think about.

[moggiee]

To do the IR you need to have done the exams first. You can either do the stand alone IR exams, of which there are 7, or do the full ATPL course with 14 exams if you are going straight on to CPL and IR.
That's the bit that people forget.

That's why it's (generally) a good idea to do the IMC as part of the hours building process, where it not only counts towards the hours building but gives valuable experience which should help towards the IR. You also have time to do the exams during the hours building.

[S-Works]

What hours building process? The posters original question was which rating to do, he only mentioned later he may consider the commercial route but at the moment he wants to develop as a pilot.

What is the obsession with 'hours building'?

If you want an IR go and do an IR, if you only want an IMCR then do an IMCR.

[moggiee]

If he's going to go commercial at some point (as yet unspecified) then he will have to accrue enough hours to begin the CPL course. Whether he does it next week, next year or next decade, he will need those hours.

It's not an obsession, it's a suggestion which covers all the options.

[5150]

I stand corrected guys re transferring from SE to ME. :ok:

It's still a hassle tho as well as extra expense.