Moving to UK can I bring my plane?

[Mooniac]

Hi all.

I did some searching but didn't get much so apologies if this has been covered.

My company is sending me to the UK for approx. 18 month project. I'm FAA PPL with IR. Can I bring and fly my N-reg Mooney into the UK for the time that I'm here?

Will I have to pay import duties, VAT etc? I've been told that anything I bring in under household goods is exempt if I've owned it for more than 6 months in the US. Just not sure if this applies to planes too?

Can I fly IFR in the UK on my FAA IR license and my N-reg plane?

Anything else I should know about coming to the UK (aviation related)?

I know it's a very broad subject, just want to know if it's even remotely possible.

Thanks in advance for any info.

[SkyHawk-N]

You'll be fine flying your N reg in the UK and Europe, including IFR. I'm not 100% sure about the import duties but I would have thought that this would not be an issue if you are a US citizen? Someone will probably correct me on this.

Be prepared for a really different flying environment. Very high fuel prices, expensive hangarage if at the larger airfields, landing fees whereever you fly and chargeable instrument approaches. Maintenance will cost more than the USA and insurance will cost more if insured using UK companies.

Where will you be living?

[bookworm]

HMRC guidance (http://customs.hmrc.gov.uk/channelsPortalWebApp/channelsPortalWebApp.portal?_nfpb=true&_pageLabel=pageVAT_ShowContent&id=HMCE_CL_000276&propertyType=document#P25_1116).

I suggest you try to have a conversation with HMRC.

[mm_flynn]

Read through Bookworm's link. In principle you can bring your aircraft with you duty and VAT free. There are some time limits on disposing of it in the EU (which I can't remember). The ferry flight is probably about $10-15k each way (fuel is very expensive along with insurance and you will probably find you can not get insurance without having a pilot along who has done the crossing before). You probably want professional advice on the import side as HMRC has an amazingly poor sense of humour if you don't do it right! I can recommend Here (http://www.forestaviation.co.uk/) as a highly knowledgeable and effective General Aviation customs expert.

Flying over here is great from the perspective of lots of different countries to go to. However, the process is amazingly bureaucratic and expensive compared to the US. You will definitely want some help getting used to the airspace, the rules, and how IFR operates in Europe.

[Chilli Monster]

Can I fly IFR in the UK on my FAA IR license and my N-reg plane?

How up to date are the avionics? 760 channel radios with FM immunity on the VOR/ILS. Mode 'S' transponder for airways flying and certain TMA's. BRNAV capability if you want to fly above FL95 (Garmin GNS430/530 approved installation will comply with this). If you need to get any of the above stuff done I'd suggest getting it done in the US where it will be half the price it is in Europe.

[flyingfemme]

Yes, you can bring your personal aircraft. Her Majesty's Finest will give you a letter waiving the VAT.

They will impose a time limit, within which you may not sell your aircraft as "VAT paid" within the EC. Take it home again, or sell it after the curfew, and you will be fine. If you are only staying 18 months then you will probably have to take it away with you.

[Mooniac]

Thanks for the replies and link to HMRC, very useful info.

I'm thinking it would be cheaper (and safer) to put it in a container than ferry flight it. Is it possible to go the other way round, over the Bearing Straits and through Russia? I'm guessing all the red tape would exceed my gross weight limit.

Out of curiosity, how much is Avgas running in the UK? What's an average landing fee? What would I expect to pay for a tie-down?

[Rod1]

In the midlands you will pay about £1700 a year for parking, Avgas at my local airfield is £1.40 pl.
Rod1

[Contacttower]

At my airfield:

Parking outside £80/month

Hangarage £200/month

Landing fee £10 (expect to pay a lot more for any airport that handles bigger than just light aircraft)



AVGAS expect to pay £1.10-£1.50/litre depending on where you go. (There are 3.7 litres to the USG)

[Ye Olde Pilot]

I would suggest you fly the aircraft over to the UK. Trying to get it put together on the N reg afterwards might cost more than you save. If you do not want the adventure there are a few on here like FF who can do the trip.
I am afraid the big shock will be Avgas and running costs in the UK.
You are also in for a big surprise when it comes to general costs of living.:rolleyes:

[mm_flynn]

Based on your handle I am guessing you fly Mooneys. With the single piece spar I believe it is somewhere between difficult to impossible to take the wings off and get them back on again as is needed for a container transit.

[Dan Dare]

In SE England you would be looking at £250 a month to park, landing fees £10-£15 and AVGAS £1.45 per litre. Instrument approaches normally have to be paid extra.

While you would be legal to fly in the UK (and IFR/airways with your Nreg/FAA IR) I would suggest that you get some extra tuition on UK rules and procedures. The CAA can get quite unpleasant (£££) if they have to chase you for some procedural transgression which wouldn't have applied at home.

Do let us know if you manage to get your Mooney across here, and good luck!

[scooter boy]

Hi Mooniac,
Where in the UK are you going to be based?
What type of Mooney do you have? Do you have long range tanks?

My advice would be to definitely fly the aircraft across if you can (or have someone fly it for you). Far less bureaucracy on this side if you do not have to rebuild it.

I keep my N-registered Mooney in Plymouth (EGHD) and fill up with relatively cheap Channel Islands avgas in Jersey 84p/L (as opposed to £1.40/L on the mainland). This is a 35 min flight for me and gives me 8-9 hrs endurance (running LOP).

You will have a lot of fun in Europe if you bring your aircraft and you will only regret it if you don't.

I took a G-reg aircraft in the other direction in 1999 and had the time of my life flying all around the USA.

Good luck,

SB

[Mooniac]

I'm going to be working in London but will probably live a little west to be near the American school for the kids. I'm thinking High Wycombe might be a good place to keep the plane? Any thoughts?

I've been doing some research on the North Atlantic crossing and it doesn't seem as suicidal as I first thought. It obviously requires considerable preparation but there seems to be a lot of information out there.

Thanks to all for the heads up on operating costs :eek:. I'd heard it would be expensive but that's crazy. For comparison, the club I used to rent from, I could get a 172SP for £35 per hour (which includes fuel) and monthly dues of £23 per month and of course no landing or approach fees. Avgas currently runs about £0.43 per liter. The 152's they have rent for £25 per hour.

[Wrong Stuff]

Wycombe is a nice, active airfield and well placed for heading any direction. It's probably 45 minutes' drive from anywhere east of Shepherd's Bush in average traffic though.

If it's the American school in St John's Wood you're thinking of, it's easier to get north out of London than west from around there, so you might want to look at Elstree instead. If you want an instrument approach, you're probably going to be disappointed. I live just north of St John's Wood and the nearest airfield with instrument approaches is Cranfield, about 45 minutes up the M1, which is where I keep my M20J.

As others have mentioned, aviation over here is blindingly expensive relative to the States, but there are some great places to visit in other countries. Be very careful to get some documentation to show the aircraft's in "free circulation" in Europe though - ie no tax is due on it. The French, especially, are very keen on trying to claim unpaid tax and you'll be sure to meet a customs officer if you go over there.

Feel free to PM if there are any questions another N-reg Mooney owner might help you with.

[flyingfemme]

Don't try and put a Mooney in a box.....there is a risk of damage in transit, risk of losing avionics in transit and, when you come to sell it, some prospective buyers will consider it "damage history". That's without considering the costs of ripping apart and putting back together.

Forget flying westbound - if you think the North Atlantic is tough, try Russia!

Anything that cruises at, or above, 150kts and has 800nm still-air range can be ferried across the Pond without too much drama. 1,000nm is preferable.

Expect to pay between US$10K and US$15K plus insurance to get it over here, depending who does it. Go along for the ride.

[Re-Heat]

White Waltham - nice place, grass
High Wycombe / Booker - busier - training school
Denham - not been myself - inside M25, so close to Heathrow
Fairoaks between Chertsey & Chobham - very quiet - just inside Heathrow zone as well

[Contacttower]

Another small place between Chertsey & Chobham - very quiet (can't remember the name) - just inside Heathrow zone as well.


Fairoaks perhaps?....

[stickandrudderman]

For God's sake man, fly it over! What better opportunity will you have for such a great adventure?

[Mooniac]

Just saw another thread about EASA planning to phase out IR flight on an FAA/IR license in an N-reg? Can anyone confirm this? Time frame if true?

If true, how difficult would it be to convert my FAA/IR into an EU acceptable IR license, bearing in mind I work for a living and would only have some weekends to train. Also, how much ££???

[Contacttower]

Just saw another thread about EASA planning to phase out IR flight on an FAA/IR license in an N-reg? Can anyone confirm this? Time frame if true?



When are you coming over?

If EASA ever do get round to banning FAA IRs and N reg aircraft it will be a case of having to convert your IR if you are staying for more than 90 days (probably). If this were to happen (which personally I think is unlikely in the near future) then we may be looking at c.2010.

To convert it would be 15hrs extra training and a flight test.

But if you are coming over soon I really wouldn't worry about it.

[IO540]

Training, flight test and ALL the JAA IR written exams.

I wouldn't worry about it at the moment, especially if you are a US citizen. It would cause a massive stink if Europe kicked out 100% genuine American pilots. You could do some really good publicity on U.S. TV, which would really help Airbus sales out there (not).

[TwinkieFlyer]

Worse than that, it would be a regular trade war once some US congressman got involved. They would end up banning JAA and such licenses in reciprocity. It would get ugly really quickly.

[AC-DC]

Convertion????:=:=:= Come on, it is Europe, the lend of the great and the best. Don't forget that we know it all.
You say that you will live in London and want to be near the American school. If you mean the one at St. Johns Wood (London's NW8 post code) then your nearst airfield is Elstree (EGTR).