Vegas tips

[gfunc]

Hi Folks,

I'm off to Las Vegas at xmas/new years, I'm looking to do a wee bit of aerial touring and I'm after some up-to-date advice from the veterans.

Can anybody recommend a rental outfit in the vegas area? I'll prefer a C172 (high wing is better for sightseeing), but nothing can be ruled out. I've come across Westair at North Las Vegas has anyone experienced these?

I'm looking for a four seater as I'm meeting friends and they want to sightsee around the area. They all want to see the Grand Canyon, but the 6,000ft+ field elevation and the above ISA conditions even in Dec/Jan make me cringe in my little C172. I'm considering Grand Canyon West (1G4) as its only (!) 4,000ft and closer to Vegas as a little trip - has anyone dropped in here before?

Any advice is greatly appreciated!

Cheers,

Gareth.

PS. I've already got my FAA PPL issued on the back of my UK one, with a current BFR and my visa and everything is in order.

[AlsWings]

I can't advise on rental outfits at Vegas, but a little C172 should be good for crusing over the Grand Canyon.

I rented a C172SP (180hp) in September, with 2 up, full fuel (51 usg) and plenty of bags (all within W&B) we had no bother getting up to FL105 at above ISA temperatures. You'll need the special chart for the canyon that has the routes specified.

If you are unfamiliar with high altitude take-offs get some instruction on your check ride.

[Justiciar]

I rented a couple of years ago from West Air. They were good on responding to emails though the guy I flew with was not particularly interested. They have 172s for rent. Not certain what their check out requirements are. You take off there under class B but the controllers at McCarron were very helpful, routing us right over their threshhold. Imagine that happening at Heathrow!

Word of warning: alot of the taxis from the hotels did not seem to know anything outside of the immediate strip or were reluctant to take me to the airport. Make sure as well that you pre-arrange your transport back as it took me over an hour to get a taxi to pick me up. This was after West air directing me to a non running shuttle back into town.

[VFR-Seek and Destroy]

Not long back from Vegas. Note, there ia a $100 landing fee to pay if you decide you want to land at grand cayon west. It will be waived if you decide to take the tour there.

[gfunc]

Thanks for the prompt replies guys.

It look like westair have a 180hp C172 for rent, so I'll speak to those folks to see if 4 (non-pieeaters) without bags to KGCN is feasible. The $100 landing fee at Grand Canyon west sounds extortionate until I remember what I paid last time to land at Shoreham.

My friends are renting a car, so transport to and from the strip is no problem. I hope that the Vegas atmosphere doesn't get to them and end up in a pink Cadillac, or worse, a pink hummer.

Cheers,

Gareth.

[SNS3Guppy]

Gareth,

I've lived in Las Vegas four times during my career, and flew tours out of there for a couple of years; primarily in the Grand Canyon.

First, I'll admit I'm biased; I hate Vegas about as much as I hate anything but dental work, and I really hate dental work. I turned down a great flying job there not long ago; not because of the job but because I hate Vegas. That said, if you must go there...have a good time.

Rentals...take your pick. Call ahead. If you're going to be flying the Grand Canyon, bear in mind it's a busy place, and the only eyes protecting your back are your own. You really ought to get hold of a Grand Canyon chart and review it very thoroughly before you go, and you really ought to have someone in the airplane who's checked out on the canyon, the procedures, and the area before you go.

A 172 does fine out there. I've spent many hundreds of hours down in the canyon and flying in and out of landing strips in the canyon in 172's and other light airplanes. Watch your performance, know your performance, and remember the water principle. Water flows downhill and so do you, and that's your escape. Weather can change rapidly in the Canyon; the Grand Wash cliffs to the west of Canyon West can force air upslope rapidly, changing a clear day to mud and sleet and ice in short order. When the Canyon does go down, you need to be able to look down at any point in it's 277 mile length that you intend to fly, and know exactly where you are. If you can't do that, then get someone to go with you who can. Just up from Diamond Creek, opposite the Parashant Wash, is the outline of a Navajo etched in the cliff, including the circular prop marks, at a spot called Gus's Plateau. Gus was the pilot, and thought he was turning up Canyon and making a run to head for South Rim. He picked the wrong canyon, and his remains and those of his passengers will be forever in the rock and down below. Don't join Gus...or many others who have been in there when they shouldn't.

Remember that flight in the canyon areas can be very turbulent; take plenty of sick sacks for your passengers. It's not a jaunt over Coventry. You have fewer options for airfields, too, no radar coverage, limited communications, and if you lose an engine, your planning moment by moment will be put to the test.

It's a beautiful area to fly. There are a LOT of retrictions out there now with the airspace as it is; be aware of them.

Don't overlook Henderson or Boulder City as places to go; they're a lot less busy than North Las Vegas, not at all far away. You might consider driving up to St. George and renting there. It's a couple of hours away in Southern Utah, but there's plenty of scenery there too, and you can easily fly to Bryce Canyon, Zion Canyon, the Grand Canyon, and Lake Powell. There are several places there to rent. I don't have the info off the top of my head, but you can find it online, I'm sure. Cedar City just north of there, too.

[Dan Winterland]

I've rented from several places at VGT (N Las Vegas) and the place I would recommend in West Air. Good aircaft, good attitude. Grand Canyon West is owned and run by Hualapi Indians, hence the charge if you don't take the tour. They're very friendly and may waive the fee if you go to the gift shop and buy something.

Going further west to Grand Canyon central is good, but it's 6500' high and gets very cold. Land there, get a cab to the rim of the canyon and pay the driver to stay there to collect you. He'll probably give you a tour as well. Just make sure the weather is good, it's not very forgiving around there.

Going further west to Sedona to see the red rocks or to monument Valley is also good, but in a 172 it's definately an overnighter.

Make sure you see the Hoover dam, but keep your eyes peeled. You won't be the only aircraft circling it!

Another good destiantion is Furnace Creek in death Valley. At 250' below sea level, it is the opposite of Grand Canyon Central. The valley is spectacular and there's a good visitors centre there. You will have to pay the standard $10 for every vehicle that enters the National park as a landing fee, but it's worth it. Take tie downs though, the winds pick up in the afternoon and aircaft have bben blown over there.

Taxi drivers will take you to VGT, the FBO can call you a cab to get you back. but it's a long way and pricey. So like s many destiantions in the US, it may be a good idea to hire a car.

Have fun!

[IanSeager]

I've rented for West Air and found them to be great. If you aren't going to take the tour then there's little point in landing at IG4 anyway, there's nothing there apart from a gift shop. I took the tour which was sold with and without food (I went without - which was a good thing) and enjoyed a stroll along the rim of the Canyon. The glass bridge is open now I believe.

http://www.pix.flyer.co.uk/gc1.jpg

http://www.pix.flyer.co.uk/gc2.jpg

Ian
PS I know this is stating the obvious, but the weather in the GC can be very very different to Vegas

[julian_storey]

I rent aeroplanes from Sheble Aviation at Kingman.

www.shebleaviation.com

It's only a short flight to Vegas, the Grand Canyon and the Hoover Dam. I rate Sheble's as one of the friendliest flight schools in the US. I've been there on holiday twice, have met lots of great people there and can't wait until my next trip in the Spring.

Val Sheble whilst lovely, is a bit rubbish with emails so you're best off telephoning her :rolleyes:

[SNS3Guppy]

I remember standing on the ramp in Needles (California) and watching a Sheble's Travel Air fly over, popping and banging so badly I was amazed it was running, as Joe Sheble gave a checkride in the airplane. It was leaking enough oil one had to wonder how he kept any in the crankcase.

[julian_storey]

I have to say that this has not been MY experience with Sheble's.

I've had fairly tidy Cessna 172's with working, if not up to date avionics. They're certainly on a par with UK flying school rental aircraft and at $79.00 an hour wet (last Spring) - pretty good value.

[Pat210]

In the last couple of weeks I valadated my FAA license at Vegas North with Elite Aviation www.iflyelite.com (http://www.iflyelite.com) on a SR22, including a trip to Grand Canyon, parachute very handy, no problems, no hassle.

pat210