Fuel Jettison and ATC

[fourgolds]

Greetings all.
I am of the understanding that each airport/terminal area has a designated Fuel Jettison Area ( am not talking about an in flight high altitude diversion). I was just wandering how we get access to where this is for various airports. I guess the AIP would be a good place to start . However given that we fly to more than 85 airports ( present outfit). This will be an excessive expense.

Basically what I would like to know is if there are designated fuel Jettison areas and more importantly how far are they from a designated airport ( obviously they will all vary). But it would be nice to know that if I required jettison at Airport " X" I would be within say 15 nm of the airport , as opposed to being sent 50 nm away from safety to jettison.

of course there is always the excision of The Captains emergency authority to do what he wants in an emergency and jettison regardless , but off course a little explaning if you jettisoned over the prime ministers residence !!

Just wandering what your thoughts are as talking to colleauges many dont even seem aware that that there are designated area,s , or have I got it wrong ?.

[Defruiter]

I'm not aware of any specific areas at UK airports (please someone correct me if I am wrong) - As far as I understood it, its supposed to a) happen over the sea if at all possible, or b) above 10,000agl (or exceptionally above 7000ft agl in winter and above 4000ft agl in summer).

From my understanding of that, you can do it anywhere as long as a) and/or b) (or exceptionally c) are met. (and of course, don't put another aircraft underneath it!)

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

Defruiter is very close. here's what MATS Pt 1 says for the UK:

Fuel Jettisoning
12.1 Pilots of aircraft in flight are permitted to jettison fuel in an emergency. The decision to jettison rests solely with the pilot but he may request guidance from air traffic control.

12.2 Controllers are to recommend that jettisoning of fuel should be carried out:
a) over the sea, if at all possible; or
b) above 10 000 feet agl.
12.3 Exceptionally, if a) or b) is operationally impracticable or inconsistent with safety, fuel may be jettisoned above 7000 feet agl in winter and above 4000 feet agl in summer. For fuel to be jettisoned below these levels the situation must be unavoidable.
12.4 A vertical separation of at least 1000 feet between aircraft should be maintained.

[RustyNail]

Every country has its own rules and regulations regarding "fuel dumping", for me, if you declare any sort of emergency and need to lose weight then just go ahead and dump away, anywhere, dont care, most fuel is vaporised immediately anyway.

After the Swissair 111 tradgedy in Canda alot of countrys have changed their requirements for fuel dumping, especially putting the focus on "get the plane on the ground ASAP" policy overriding the "will avgas dumped at 10'000' damage someones roses" policy. Bite me.

As has been mentioned before, if time permits there are ruels set by each State, if not then just open the taps, let it go and land.

Safe flying, RN

[Cartman's Twin]

I won't bother reiterating the levels mentioned above but in the London TMA we have no designated area. If it needs to be dumped immediately then dump away, I heard that many years ago a 74-2 got airborne from EGKK and lost 2 engines, started dumping before the threshold had passed and then dropped below the towers view. Continued to jetison as it scraped it's way through a very low circuit before it's Dunlops made contact once again (probably just needed to lower the gear again to make contact. I'm sure it made the area a bit smelly, but a 350 ton crater would no doubt be more severe.

So if it's urgent then be my guest. I'll claim for the damage to my car's paintwork, you safe your butt. However we have had several incidents in my experience where a situation has required a return to base and the pilot's chosen to dump fuel to avoid an overweight landing. Eg a long haul a/c unable to retract it's flaps fully. In this case, and after discussion with the pilot, we tend to vector the a/c over the sea before they commence dumping. Common sense and our astounding degree of logic dictates that we'd use the are of water closest to the appropriate airport.

There's my half dozen's worth...

[A I]

The EGKK incident was in about 1987 off runway 26 (Left now) and I think it was a Continental a/c. I also think it was a single engine which flamed out at rotation. The flight engineer (remember them?) pulled the dump valves and saved the aircraft at the cost of a lot of kerosene falling on Russ Hill. I watched it all happen on radar at West Drayton and the a/c was in and out of primary radar cover as it tried to climb away towards Dunsfold. Eventually the crew got Number 1 going again and there was an uneventful landing. A quite magnificent piece of airmanship IMHO.

A I

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

The PanAm one that lost an engine (or two??) out of Heathrow in the 70s was impressive too. Driving to work with three colleagues along the M4 at White Waltham it passed us going the other way and we couldn't see the wings it was so low. It made around 1000 ft by CPT and turned south to dump fuel over the Channel. When it later returned I told him he'd frightened us to death and he fell about laughing. That earned me a visit to the boss's piece of Axminster as the R/T exchange was apparently reported in the Commons.

I don't think anyone doubts that in a real emergency pilots can, and will, dump fuel wherever they need to. However, many problems requiring fuel dumping are not emergencies and for those cases recommended procedures are laid down.

[doubledolphins]

There is a story told about that one. One of my favorites that deserves to be true. As the 707 struggled into the air the exchange went something like this.

"Clipper*** do you have a problem?"

"That's affirmative Boy."

"Roger, climb straight ahead, the sky is yours call me back when able."

after a few moments the controler spotted a yellow mist behind the aeroplane.

"Clipper *** are you dumping fuel?"

"That's affirmative Boy."

"Are you aware that you are flying over Windsor Castle?"

"That's arffirmative Boy. You got a phone there?"


"That's --er. Affirmative."

"Well, would you like to call the Lady and ask her if she wants the fuel or the Whole Goddam Airplane!"

[Wojtus]

In Poland there are three defined Fuel Dumping Areas, all in vicinity (30-50NM) of our capital aiport - EPWA. So in "worst" scenario you'll have to fly more then 200NM from your initial destination in Poland to reach a FDA. You'll then choose EPWA for landing anyway ;)

ATC will provide vectoring towards and inside FDAs (including "start/stop dumping" commands). Of course, if crew's decision is to dump the fuel while en-route - they dump, and en-route dumping separation is provided.