M-reg Query

[Shunter]

If one was able to get one's aircraft onto the M-reg, would it then be possible to exercise the full privileges of both one's JAA and FAA licenses when flying it in the UK and Europe? I'm led to believe that the IoM accept any ICAO compliant license.

Should the IMC disappear somewhere down the line, and an accessible EASA IR not appear, surely this could be an alternative to going N-reg? Anyone aware of any noteworthy pitfalls or issues with potentially going down this path?

[S-Works]

Er, how about reading the IOM registry web site. You might just discover what makes you interesting to them. Your little spam can aint!!

[Contacttower]

I think you have to be over 5700kgs to be on the M reg.

[S-Works]

M Reg is basically type rating country. Mate of mine has his Citation on it. He does not fly himself of course.

[Shunter]

Does one have to be a super-elite aviator to avoid getting attacked for simply asking a question these days? Yes I did have a nose round the site, no I didn't see the >5700kg rule. That was why I was asking, to gain insight from those more knowledgeable on the subject than myself.

[S-Works]

Not meant to be an attack, just a venting of frustration at the never ending desire by people to find shortcuts on a straight road.

If you want an IR go and do an IR that corresponds to your licence. It never ceases to amaze me how much time and effort people spend trying to circumnavigate the system. In fact if people spent the same time doing the IR as actually looking for ways around it the would get it done without even noticing!!!!

[Shunter]

I have JAA and FAA licenses and am part way through the FAA IR. Not trying to play the system at all. Just exploring possibilities in regard to retaining IFR privileges in the UK if the IMC goes down the pan (without going N-reg).

If the worst should happen, the IMC goes and is not replaced by an accessible IR, and they try and kick N-reg's out of Europe, it would have been a nice alternative route for those of us who simply don't have weeks/months spare to study for a JAA IR. I see IoM aren't precluding light aircraft by rule, simply by resource (they'll do it for IoM residents, for example). Those of us who don't have the time to spend on completing JAA IR theory in any kind of reasonable timeframe are probably the exact same people who would pay a not inconsequential sum to get onto the register and therefore be able to exercise an FAA IR in the UK.

[IO540]

just a venting of frustration at the never ending desire by people to find shortcuts on a straight road

Bose X, according to this thread

http://forums.flyer.co.uk/viewtopic.php?t=9877&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=30

you hold an FAA IR also, so why criticise people for choosing what you call "shortcuts"?

One should not criticise people for making a 100% legal 100% legitimate and 100% reasonable choice.

[Sir George Cayley]

Now calm down chaps and take 5.

Whilst we all sit back, relax and breath deeply lets play a little game:ok:

M+ 4 letters, lets see who can come up with the best combo?

Then we can get back to being tetchy, back biting, pompous and all the other things we do so well on here.:eek:

Sir George Cayley

ps Went to Fraggle Rock once on a wet Wednesday - shan't be going back.

[Shunter]

I did consider M-INGE, then maturity prevailed.

[FullyFlapped]

Not meant to be an attack, just a venting of frustration at the never ending desire by people to find shortcuts on a straight road.

If you want an IR go and do an IR that corresponds to your licence. It never ceases to amaze me how much time and effort people spend trying to circumnavigate the system. In fact if people spent the same time doing the IR as actually looking for ways around it the would get it done without even noticing!!!!

Bose, tell me : how would you be reacting to this whole debate if you only had an IMC and simply couldn't afford to go get an IR, as will be the case with many (very competent) current IMC holders ? What's the damage at the moment, £10-£12K ?

I wonder if you'd suddenly find yourself seeking those shortcuts ? :rolleyes:

Personally, whilst I'll do what I can to help Fuji's campaign, I think it's a waste of time. The professional bodies will always win their case simply by shouting "safety" often enough, and as far as I can see our Government and the other bodies which are supposed to represent my aviation interests have all shrugged their shoulders and prepared to touch their toes as per usual ...

And while I'm in moaning mode, what happened to the "I think we might well see real progress on the IR-lite in the next 6 months" stance ? :p

I think a far more effective result may well be had by starting a campaign to raise a fighting fund to take a case on behalf of those who lose IMC rights to the European Court of Human Rights. If it turns out to be unnecessary, it may just cover the bar bill at the next PPruNe thrash !

FF :ok:

[FullyFlapped]

Looks like I'm down for M-OANR, then ! ;)


FF :ok:

[S-Works]

IO it has nothing to with what I have and don't have, you really seem to think I have something against the FAA system when in fact it is quite the opposite, I think it is superb. You missed off linking to my shiny new Canadian quals as well. So keep the personal stuff out of it please.

The reason it has a bad reputation with the regulators is due to endless discussions like this that make it seem like it is a shortcut.

Additionally I have no issue a bit getting the required qualifications as needed not seeking shortcuts.

You have your own reasons for having to be on the N Reg but I am sure if the JAA doorway was open to you the story would be different.

[scooter boy]

"I did consider M-INGE, then maturity prevailed."

My vote goes to M-INGE.:D

You also have M-ELON, M-OUNT, M-AMBO, M-OTOR, M-IDGE, M-YGOD, M-OUSE and of course M-ONEY.

SB

[S-Works]

FullyFlapped. Firstly there has NEVER been an 'IR LITE' yet another example of shortcutting. There will never be an IR Lite while the airlines influence the regulators.

As far as a more accessible IR is concerned the work has been done, some changes already apply the rest sat with EASA. Nothing more we can do at this stage.

If I did not have a JAA IR and wanted one I would go and do one, if I could not afford it then I would do as the rest of Europe does, I would fly VFR and live with my lot. I took the IMCR because it was available, I took the IR because I could.

I look upon myself as a global pilot able to fly anywhere in the world. If I go somewhere new and they have requirements for me to meet then I will do so if I want to fly. It is simple, their country their rules.

Europe has it's rules and I don't look for ways of circumventing them I just get on with it.

The loss of the IMCR would be said as it is another 'essentially British' quirk but I am not going to get all outraged about it or look for shortcuts. There is a price to pay for being able to mix it with the big boys and I am prepared to meet the requirements.

[julian_storey]

BOSE - you are obviously a lucky chap who's made a few quid so you can afford to fly lots and have been able to pay for an IR.

Although I suspect that I almost certainly have quite a few quid less than you, I make a living flying a fast pointy thing - so I get to fly lots, which I consider makes me quite a lucky chap too.

I think that the point that some folk are making is that they don't fly for a living, currently have an IMC rating, use it perfectly competently, are distressed that they might well lose it and don't have a spare £12,000 to pay for an IR.

Far from looking for a 'short cut', I think that several of the people who have posted on here are people who would like to carry on doing what they are doing and who sadly don't have a spare £12,000 to spend on their hobby.

[Fuji Abound]

What a very sad world when we all shrug our shoulders and say them be the rules so lets just accept them and follow them.

[FullyFlapped]

Julian - you have it in a nutshell.

Fuji - I say again, tell me what I can do to help (I have already written to 2 MPs) and I will do it without question. You have my absolute support, unfortunately you have my pragmatism along with it !

I can also promise you that your comment ref following rules blindly was, if aimed at me, a long way off the localiser !

Bose, I can't be bothered to get into an argument, if you're trying to tell me that if you wanted IFR priledges, couldn't get a JAA IR, but could get an FAA one, you'd just continue to fly VFR ... :eek:

Happy to hear that the "more accessible IR" is progressing, anyway : where do we find out about accepted changes to date ?

FF :ok:

[Fuji Abound]

I can also promise you that your comment ref following rules blindly was, if aimed at me, a long way off the localiser !

No it most certainly was not.

Thank you so much for your support - please see the sticky and PM me if you will.

[A and C]

I fail to understand the attitude from some above who seem to look down on the IMCR.

Why?

IMO it is the next logical step after the PPL to expand the pilots skill level, for the not so current it will get them out of trouble and for those who practice it can be used to lower the minimums that they work to.

To be truthfull the IMCR is one of the hardest things that I have done in aviation........... the IR was just a lot of practice to get the standard of flying up to IR test standard.

We do need an IR lite but it must be "lite" on the airline stuff (why do they require you to do a fuel flight plan for a VC10 when you are going to fly a PA-34?) What it must not be is "lite" on flying skills!

[Barshifter]

I quite like M-ANSL which is on a Cessna C560 Citation.........Now then I wonder who that may belong to :cool:

Seemingly this aircraft has now been sold,but as the manx reg is transferable it will be interesting to see where it goes next .

[Sir George Cayley]

with the exception of ADF, I've seen a number of homebuilt (kit) a/c recently that could be said to be IR capable.

One was a Europa 914S tri-gear that even had an autopilot, the other was some eastern eurpean fantastic plastic. I'm sure there are some RVs etc too.

I thought the LAA (nee PFA) was trying to persuade the CAA to aaccept IMC rated pilots to fly these types (subject to approaval of the installlation) in the clag.

Whilst peering into one cockpit at a show this year an old chap behind me exclaimed "B8gg5r me! that's got more kit than my 737". He flew a 737-200 in Africa:D

It is clear that our enviable safety record across a wide spectrum of aviation is worth keeping and the cost barriers to progress for rank and file pilots must be challenged.

M-UTLY ? (snigger)

Sir George Cayley

[Superpilot]

This over 5.7T is it?

http://cdn-www.airliners.net/photos/photos/0/4/1/1278140.jpg

[S-Works]

At the risk of being shot at again for saying read the rules...... But read the rules, specifically for IOM "nationals".......

[jabberwok]

I quite like M-ANSL which is on a Cessna C560 Citation

It only lasted a week. The aircraft has been sold to Sweden as SE-RIT. :)

[ANW]

M-Register
came across this site (http://www.homepages.mcb.net/bones/01UKAV/ManxRegister.htm)

[radicalrabit]

If you dwell are domiciled or have a business domiciled in the IOM then yes you can request anything to be put on the register, Their aim overall was to develop business links to the island and after a lengthy discussion with the office the bottom line was if we wanted to be on the Manx register anything smaller than a Beech 200 was a no go. Thats it, full stop no debate necessary. So we shelved the idea of a Cheiftain and looked for a B200 instead.

[FullyFlapped]

So how did that Trinidad get on there then ?

I'm confused ...

FF :confused:

[S-Works]

Because residents of the IOM i.e "nationals" are permitted to go onto the Manx register. So if you are born and bred on the Island you can go on the reg.

It is all available from the IOM website......

[BlueRobin]

Even humble 172s get a look in

http://www.homepages.mcb.net/bones/WebAircraft/M-BONOs.jpg


Bose - wibble! ;)

[BroomstickPilot]

To return to the orignal subject of the M Reg, when I heard about the introduction of M Reg my imagination took off. One thought particularly took hold in my mind.

As we all know, if you want to put your aeroplane on the N Reg, you have to set up a trust under which the legal owner of the aircraft has to be a US citizen. This in all probability means someone you have never met and know nothing of who is even resident in the US.

Now bearing in mind that the residents of Alderney make extra pocket/pin money for themselves being directors of companies to enable those companies to base themselves in Alderney. The thought arises whether in time to come residents of I o M will be able to make pocket/pin money for themselves being the legal owners of aeroplanes based in the UK.

Just a thought.

Broomstick.

[S-Works]

Apart from the fact that the IOM have clearly stated they will not allow this to happen to aircraft under 5700kg. If you want to put a light aircraft on the IOM reg it has to be a private aircraft registered to an individual who is an IOM resident.

I suspect a deal has already been done with EASA and the UK CAA looking at the statements they have issued about who is eligible.