Oceansky recruitment

[Ray Ban]

Has anyone yet heard back from the recent Flight International ad for London/Manchester based flightcrew? I'm based down south so interested in London base for either CJ3/LJ45/60. Any idea about the package, roster etc?

I'm not type rated on these aircraft but have multi crew turbine experience as an FO. Hopefully they'll be willing to type new guys!

Thanks!:)

[RAFAT]

It does state that "preference" will be given to type rated pilots, so I guess that means they'd accept non-type rated applicants. However, note that for all positions, (even the CJ3!) jet time is required. My only guess as to why that would be is that tired and outdated excuse - insurance. :ugh:

[Ray Ban]

I've 1400TT and over 300 on turboprops but no jet time!:(

[CaptainProp]

Just spoke to a buddy of mine who flies airbus and wants to get out of airline.... He applied but got a "thanks but no thanks" due to "lack of bizzjet experience". Fair enough if thats what they are looking for but something for you guys to keep in mind. He prob got around 6000 hrs with 2500 bus and TP command...

Good luck to all!

/CP

[Joe le Taxi]

I got the same - similar background.

[flying headbutt]

I didn't even get a reply - 10 years on jets with a couple of years in corporate. Not the correct type rating though. That's just the way it goes - there's definitely an element of luck in getting the 'right' job and it pays to have a thick skin. Keep plugging away - you never know what'll turn up.

[Crosswind Limits]

That maybe fair enough for the CL600s, Lears etc but where are they going to get the pilots for the CJ3? Don't tell me you need stacks of biz jet time to act as co-jo on a CJ3! :confused:

I currently fly a Citation 550B and would have thought I have enough relevant experience to get a reply from these guys but nothing! I suppose no news is good news, in a way!! :hmm:

[learjet50]

C/PWith due respect to Airline Pliots Ad Hoc flying which Ocean Sky is cannot getadjusted to theVarious changes that take place on an Hourly Basis let alone a Daily Basis.I Know Airpline Pliots who have joined an Air Taxi/Charter Company and there first whine is .I need to know they Day before where Im going and for how long. I have also heard them at Interviews saying it wont be a problem with Roster Chanes at short notice then the first Roster change they get they complain.I am sorry to be so blunt but Airpline pliots do not on the whole make good Pliots in this businessSorry to be so Blunt ..

[Duck Rogers]

While we're being blunt learjet50, sort your bloody typing out will you? Your random capitals make me feel ill :uhoh:

[learjet50]

Sorry mate only a pliot your lucky i can write

[RAFAT]

learjet50 - not all 'airline' pilots are so inflexible, however I agree that some are, and those types shouldn't be applying to join the Corporate sector.

[Flintstone]

And some corporate pilots wouldn't fit in at an airline and freight pilots wouldn't hack it in the military etc etc blah blah blah..........jeez.

I know a plumber and do you know something? He can't build a brick wall to save his life. This has all been said before and is hardly news :rolleyes:

learjet. I'm sure you thought there was a point in your post somewhere but I'm buggered if I can find it. Then again it is a bit like trying to read alphabetti spaghetti. Give us a fighting chance would you and type in English?

[CaptainProp]

I did not apply for ocean, planned to but after my buddy got his answer I guess there is not much use in applying either (as my background is almost identical to his), but I have decided that I want to swap over to bizjets and that Im done doing airline. I have some applications out and I have been invited for a couple of interviews, so that shows that having no previous biz experience does not mean that you can't get the jobs that are around. Now, if I would take that decision without taking roster, pay, etc etc in to account, I would be a total idiot, right? So to say that "airline guys" don't fit in biz ops or the other way around is BS! It depends on who you are and why you decide to do one or the other. Some guys here looks a bit narrow minded or perhaps bitter? Did someone with airline background get the job that you did not? If thats the case, then Im sorry for you, sucks not to get the job you want, but don't take that out on all the other "airline" guys.....
Another thing is, if I was recruiting for a biz op I would probably rather take a "airline" guy with 10 years flying experience in for interview than take a guy with 2 years in some small corporate outfit....Why? Well the way I look at it is that I am looking for someone with a lot of aviation experience, learning to adapt to the operation as such (taking care of costumers and perhaps solving issues that traditionally is operations job in an airline) is something MOST people can learn and something I can assess during the interview. Its called personality, first impression, how he/she acts when introduced to my colleagues during an interview or when I show them around our office etc etc.
Then it all depends, am I recruiting a guy that I plan to put 6 months in the right seat and then upgrade? Or a FO who will be "stuck" for 2+ years in the right seat? Recruiting for long haul, short haul? Biz airbus or Citation II?
Good luck to all!
/CP

[ARJ]

Back to the subject....

Does anyone know about the package they offer? Salary, roster, LOL etc.

I have received an e-mail that I am selected for further consideration...
3100 hrs total, 1200hrs jet with 300 of them on Bizjets

Cheers

[bilderberger]

Well said Learjet 50

I personally know of one ex-airline guy (25yrs with a flag carrier) who couldn't even get the weather of the computer when he came into corporate!!
That's what happens when you are used to having a cast of thousands behind you!

BB

[Crosswind Limits]

CaptainProp

I think many, possibly even most, biz jet operators would go for the guy with 2 years corporate experience compared to the 10 year airline guy. As anyone with any corporate experience will tell you the flying is the easy bit! All the other 'management' during day to day operations is very much left to the guys upfront. Of course in a decent outfit you'll have operational backup but it still pays to 'manage' what's going on. Catering, cleaning, getting the plane ready, requesting fuel and the plethora of paperwork are just some of the daily chores. Not to mention last minute schedule changes, eg. doing 4 sectors instead of 2, going to Liege instead of Nice, what!!??:{ and the general buggering about that seems to happen quite often!;)

I've seen it myself airline guys with loads of experience just can't cut it in the biz jet world for the reasons mentioned above. However, those airline guys that do prosper in this side of professional aviation and I've seen a few, seem to have the corporate pilot mindset already.

You need to ask yourself whether you do!

Good luck!!:ok:

[RAFAT]

....it still pays to 'manage' what's going on. Catering, cleaning, getting the plane ready, requesting fuel and the plethora of paperwork are just some of the daily chores. Not to mention last minute schedule changes, eg. doing 4 sectors instead of 2, going to Liege instead of Nice, what!!?? and the general buggering about that seems to happen quite often!

That sounds extraordinarily like a Low Cost airline I know! :oh:

....those airline guys that do prosper in this side of professional aviation and I've seen a few, seem to have the corporate pilot mindset already.

That's exactly it Crosswind. :D

[Chippie Chappie]

To back up Crosswind Limits on this one, it comes down to attitude and the law of averages.

To change from airline to bizjet, you need to completely change your attitude. Will you be happy cleaning the toilet, doing Jepp ammendments and not knowing what you'll be doing from one day to the next on RHS bizjet pay after you've achieved a lot of airline command experience and the associated pay level? If so, for how long?

So, while it comes down to the individual, and some will make that transition, the law of averages is against it and bizjet operators, whose training resources tend to be far more limited than the airlines, are mindful of that.

Good luck with OceanSpray,

Chips

[hawker750]

many moons ago we employed an ex flag carrier Captain. One day he was convinced the the flight had a delay because the Pitot Covers were still on. (the young goffer was sick that day) He missed his slot, we missed giving a client a good service.......I am not sure if he missed his job though.
Not all are like this but you have to be 110% sure the guy will empty the lav at 03,00 in the middle of Africa!

[CaptainProp]

Guys, the airline people that you talk about does hardly exist anymore and as someone already stated, "It sounds like any LOCO outfit today".... Welcome to the orange world! :} Only time I can see any real truth to it is with some of the cadets that our airline industry is producing today. They go straight in to airline ops without any GA or commuter type operation and will perhaps miss some hands on experience that the "rest" of us have seen in previous lives....

Still convinced that it is a personality aspect rather than previous type of experience....

Just back after 4 sectors.....that was 2, four hours before I checked in...and we had problems getting fuel down route so had to chase up the fuel guy myself...and update an expired flightplan! Almost a bizz day! :E

And remember guys, we are not doing rocket science here...bizz or not!

Good luck to all, airline and biz!

/CP

[Vanpilot]

How much does a Lear or CJ3 Captain or FO get in other companies???

[TheOtherSide]

OceanSpray I believe have an ex flag carrier pilot flying for them. From the limited times I have met him he is a top notch guy.

All the best to Bean if he is out there!

[transilvana]

Well guys, it´s just another bizjet company. It´s true you have to be more flexible on the bizjet side. The problem is that you don´t find so flexible people around who can manage a problem without calling half the the employees of the airline.

I fly bizjets, I have background experience on ground ops for a long time and I tell you that it helps quite a lot, almost 90% of the job is how to handle the problems you get on route, flying is just the boring part of it. You sleep in a different country everyday, you go to places where there is just nothing!!!! and I mean it, if you don´t have a really opened mind forget about bizjet jobs.

The good thing is that you fly nice aircrafts, you get empty legs where you can really fly and have fun doing it, you get to places you would never imagine and sometimes you will have to look for them on google earth cause you never heard of them.

But it´s also true you have to do a lot of work, no schedule, you are confined on a square meter cockpit and getting to places like Moscow in winter is life taking for start up. We guys who know these places have fun a lot with new guys that come and don´t know the procedures.

Anyway, I prefer to fly with a guy with 2000 hours on bizjet that 10000 hours of airline experience, probably the airline guy will learn more from you than viceversa.

[PtP]

Well i've never heard such a load of drivel from all you bizjet guys!!! I've flown for 3 major airlines and whilst working for each one i've had to get involved in catering, sorting passengers, cargo, producing flight plans manual loadsheets the list goes on and on!! And all this on a big 4 engined jet with over 450 paxs..... on a recent diversion to the only available airfield for which we never even had plates I had to sort the refueling panel, manual loadsheets and a manual flight plan... managed to get ops to file it for me tho... sorry if I was being lazy... My god I find it really annoying that you think you are the only ones that have to work!! Brush those huge chips of your shoulders boys and girls and get real... we are all just pilots trying to do the best we can with the available resources... sometimes when you have 450 paxs you have to take into account all of there needs and it sometimes takes a 'cast of hundreds' to organise it!! And Just in case you think i'm being snotty I was up at 5am this morning helping my mate out on his piston twin... getting down in the crap checking his fuel drains and being his lacky.... I thoroughly enjoyed it!!
Oh and by the way... I was phoned by ocean pie 4 weeks ago and asked for my cv... and i've 12 years with the airlines... don't rest on your laurels boys we airline pilots have a lot of experience to offer with our very disciplined environment and professional attitude to getting a job done safely and efficiently and being commercially expeditious. We also don't have anything to prove either ;-) see you there! :D


Regards PtP

[transilvana]

Ptp

Everybody do their job as best as we can, what you explain we do it everyday on bizjets and probably others do it on airliners. What I meant is that it´s easier the jump to airliners from bizjet than viceversa, you said that you did not have approach plates for your diversion, bad planning, you need charts for your route and area where you fly and I have all jepps on board. Diversions is another factor we do daily. As I said on my post you have to be really open minded for this job.

[PtP]

Transilvana... The airfield in question was the only one available to us at the time.... Not one of bad planning!!
The point I was trying to make is that your not some breed of pilot that is better suited to bizjet flying with some kind of special adaptability skills!! We all as pilots have the same skills to enable us to do our jobs as professional as possible. Whether it be GA or airline so please try and show the same respect to your airline brethren as you'd show to your colleagues :-)

Regards ptp

[bilderberger]

Here we go again. Another airline pilot with an ego who's took offence to someone elses' opinion!!!

Seen many come mate & many fall, however, just for you ptp, I have seen some gooddens' too.

Take Care. BB

[shaun ryder]

You might have to empty the odd bog, ask a handling agent for a refueler or run into M&S somedays for catering and possibly load a few bags into the aircraft. Wow, you guys are astonishing! And even have your duty changed on you!! "your off to Nice instead of Rome now", cor! Sort out all your own Aerad updates da de da? How would an ex airline chap cope, you biz bods are truly something. I think I will stay in my cotton wool coated, safe and pandered to airline, how one would cope with the job of a biz jet pilot is beyond me!!

[LRdriver II]

I think both industries have fecking huuge chips on their respective shoulders and we both generalize grossly to be contentious on place like here. I have met arrogant twits in both industries and I wouldnt work in either if I had to base it on this minority.
I suggest everybody winds their necks in and respect each other for what we are.. aviators,where common sense and airmanship define who and what we are.
I think in the name of fairness, we should say that freightdogs are grubby nightfliers and all ex forces pilots are one track minded non-crm cowboys... there!.. everybody feel equally offended now and my job is done here. :ok::}

[FlyMD]

Having done both (airline & biz) extensively, i can say with some confidence that unless YOU have done both, yer talking out of yer @ss... so there :p

(oh, and BTW, bizjets wins hands down any day of the year as far as brains and energy required go... sorry.)

[bilderberger]

Also done both......last 2 posts just about right!!

I would have to give the edge SLIGHTLY to the biz jet guys, however, that is not to say I disregard or have no respect for anybody who flies airline, far from it......it's just that the biz jet guys have a few more balls to juggle out of the cockpit!!! Thats all.

I have no doubt the anybody coming from an airline background would adapt easily to the biz jet world but, like I said earlier i have witnessed first hand, some shockers, whom I wonder how they ever got flying for an airline in the first place!!

[Crosswind Limits]

Guys

This thread is about Oceansky not who has the bigger balls!:p

Has anyone got any feedback from Oceansky about their application?

Cheers!

[silverhawk]

So does anyone have any info on the package on offer at Oceansky?

[bullshot]

Interesting thread...

Anyone have any idea why the bizjet safety record is so much worse than the Airline one? E.G. Bizjets have an appalling altitude bust record - are you Guys emptying the toilets whilst flying a SID?

[DUAL RATED]

ER Oceansky i think the thread says, anyone answer it?

[carlos vandango]

Once upon a time, I worked for an airline (now a 'regional loco) that bought a few stretched biz-jets for commuter use and employed several ex biz-jet pilots to help fly them. The word from HQ was that they did not settle in particularly well. To be honest I had several 'interesting' conversations with some of them which did not endear me to their cause. I don't believe airline or exec flying to be any more difficult than the other. They are just different and some people adapt to change better than others. I'd love a go at exec flying but I realise it is very different in certain aspects. I have several friends flying bizjets, all of whom are ex airline. Some love it, some don't. The bottom line is we are all pilots..lets respect each other's area of expertese.

[blablablafly]

Understand these guys are linked is that correct: http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=298701:rolleyes:

[Duck Rogers]

Keep on topic please. Any further 'pissing competition' type posts will be deleted.

Duck.

[ginopino]

Are they calling only type-rated pilots ?

[silverhawk]

No, non-type rated applicants are also being contacted.

[saffron]

Saffron. Which part of my last post did you not understand? If anyone wants to continue the airline -v- corporate pilot debate they can start their own thread and stop contaminating this one.


Duck

[blablablafly]

Silverhawk,

Thinking about leaving Jet2 already? ;)

[silverhawk]

What do you mean 'already' ? It's been 3 years already. I even qualify for a new jacket.
I'm still here though and I intend to keep trying to improve our lot as long as I'm still here.
Could be a lost cause though.
Take good care.

[BBJW]

Exactly !!!:D

[Duck Rogers]

Having trouble keeping up flapassym?;)

[RAFAT]

Can someone please explain the situation to flapassym, I think he is indeed having trouble keeping up.

[Duck Rogers]

Correct moniker though I'm promising nothing. I've been on the cider.