Any benefit to flying while on holiday with low hours?

[crazy6]

I have just started m PPL in London ( 4 hours logged ) and weather has stopped me doing the last few lessons ( love these english summers ). I am in Australia for a month over xmas and wondered if I can continue adding some hours while there? not a massive amount, maybe 3-4 hours get some more of he principles down before returning in Jan.

If this is a little naive or just plain stupid I apologise in advance ;)

[Lister Noble]

Why not ask your instructor if you can do this?
Sorry I am not much help
Lister

[Fuji Abound]

Yes, why not.

They will not count towards your training but the more air time you get the easier it will be when you return to your PPL.

If you have the time in Australia you might even want to see about doing your PPL there (I am not sure what the conversion process is - check first) - it will probably be cheaper and the weather a whole lot more reliable.

[effortless]

All experience is good but you may not be able to use them as logged hours towards your PPL.At least they speak a sort of English in Oz.

I always try and get some hours wherever I am, not a stude though. The reason I fly is to fly so I just do it. I have logged time in France, Germany, Australia, Bulgaria, Romania. Latvia and Poland. It isn't always easy to get up but if someone is flying you can usually get a go if you try I have had a ball.

[Shunter]

I was told during my PPL that hours gained as Pu/t with a non-JAA instructor in another ICAO country were allowed to be included in your TT :confused:

[S-Works]

accept to train in Oz you have to jump through a zillion security hoops which start months in advance.

[Fright Level]

Given that most people don't complete their PPL in the minimum time required and that all experience is useful, then yes, go for it. Log the dual time with your instructor, ask the school to sign/stamp your logbook as a back up, but then when you're back in the UK simply carry on. The extra hours experience will certainly help you along even if none of it can be counted towards theJAR PPL issue (a daft rule if you ask me).

As an example, I used MS Flight Sim a lot before and during my IMC and then IR ratings. It really helped my scan rate and situational awareness despite none of it counting a bean for the ratings, it minimised the time I needed to spend learning.

[Fuji Abound]

accept to train in Oz you have to jump through a zillion security

Well you would, wouldnt you :)

[Fright Level]

The OP is talking about a bit of dual time with an instructor, not training per se. Any tourist can pop down to the local flying club for a "trial lesson" without a medical/slightest interest in a licence, so why can't someone with aspirations on a PPL etc do the same?

Fly, enjoy, get the hours logged and stamped. Whether the CAA accept them or not is neither here nor there given my original comment about most PPL's (self included) needed well above the minimum hours to qualify.

FFS there are enough obstacles in our way without us imagining any more for ourselves!

[Sam Rutherford]

I go with eddnr's advice - go for it (more in the spirit of being a fun thing to do that 'useful' for your ppl).

Enjoy, flying in Australia is a lot of fun!

Sam.

[S-Works]

I am not putting blocks in here I was just recalling something that was discussed awhile back about flying in Oz. Perhaps some of the Oz based people here could enlighten us but as I understand it to even get behind the controls you have to go through some security process and get an ID card of some type.

I don't believe it was just as simple as turning up for a trial lesson.

Didn't one of the famous bush flying places close their doors last year because of this issue?

[DaveW]

bose, there certainly is a long-winded, relatively expensive and nauseously pointless process to validate your UK licence for flying in Oz, which is why when I was there for a short visit 18 months ago I didn't bother.

Instead, I pitched up at an aeros school at Bankstown and did some instruction with them. Simple and legal, with no ID cards or CASA paperwork in sight.:ok: I'm pretty sure it's the same if you go for a trial lesson or similar.

The bush flying place that closed down was catering to PPLs who needed their existing licences validated etc, not students.

crazy6: go for it. It is bound to be useful to you - if for no other reason than there will be less hiatus in your training. I doubt there is any downside, and at least your view of what you can do when you have your PPL will have been expanded from early on.

[Gertrude the Wombat]

Any tourist can pop down to the local flying club for a "trial lesson" without a medical/slightest interest in a licence, so why can't someone with aspirations on a PPL etc do the same?
And indeed any PPL holder can pop down to the local flying club whilst on holiday and rent a plane and an instructor for what is legally a flying lesson but in fact is a joy ride - couple of kids in the back, and let the instructor do the boring foreign radio and do the nav for you, you just fly and look out of the window.

[vortexracer]

My wife is planning to do the same in the US. We checked with our CFI and according to the PPL rules then you have 10 hours of the 45 total required to be obtained in an "unspecified" way. You time abroad could be counted as these.

[nanocas]

Hi! I agree with Gertrude, during the beginning of my ppl training here in Belgium (where the weather is not the greatest either), my husband and I together with the kids went for a holiday to Portugal, not wanting to "waste" all the good weather, I went to the local flying club, hired an instructor, loaded up hubby in the back and off we went for 3hrs. That was the most fun flight I have had in my training! great instructor and did 6 touch and goes at 6 different airfields! great new scenery! at the end of the flight I just got the instructor to sign my logbook including his license number, got a copy of his license and the club even gave me a signed letter stating that I did in fact 3 hrs with them. So, hours are logged (but not towards ppl training), and was great fun and new learning experience! plus the first time I took a passenger up as well! hubby loved it!:D

I would say do it!

[Fright Level]

Having looked at LASORS, I reckon foreign flight time is acceptable towards a PPL even with the minimum of 45 hours. It states that all training shall be conducted on a/c with a C of A issued or accepted by a JAA member state. Fair enough, let's assume that an Australian or FAA registered plane is not accepted for some reason ..

LASORS states that the minimum requirements for a JAR PPL is 45 hours of flight time which must include the following training requirements: 25 hours dual and 10 hours supervised solo (inc cross country). That leaves 10 hours of flight that is required for the PPL issue but that is not required as "training" therefore looks like it can be carried out on a non JAA approved C of A a/c.

Make sure you have the CFI sign your logbook that the hours are true and I reckon you'd be OK with 10 hours of "foreign" flights even in the minimum requirement of 45 hours for a JAR PPL. Given that most people take more hours to complete, any hours are "good" hours early in your training and I reckon that a PPL with say 50 hours, 15 of which were acquired & verified overseas would still be acceptable.

Why not email the CAA with the specific question? I found them helpful and respond within a couple of days. My money's on it still being OK to pick up some experience on your holiday but I agree going solo abroad is a completely different matter requiring pre approval, medicals, provisional licences, air law etc.

PS Not sure where in Oz you're going but if it's Sydney, then Bankstown is the big GA field there.

[BackPacker]

Fair enough, let's assume that an Australian or FAA registered plane is not accepted for some reason ..

I did all my JAA training (dual+solo) on an N-reg (in Florida). The CAA had no problems with it.

Make sure you have the CFI sign your logbook that the hours are true and I reckon you'd be OK with 10 hours of "foreign" flights even in the minimum requirement of 45 hours for a JAR PPL.

As long as the instructor you flew with is a certified instructor under JAR-FCL for PPL training, I think the hours you flew with him/her actually can count towards the 25 dual hours anyway. Even if all you did was sightseeing.

Normally at the end of your PPL training, the school will check their records, compare it with your logbook and then stamp your logbook with a stamp saying "logbook entries checked and correct" or something. This is proof to the CAA that you indeed clocked up the 45 hours total, 25 dual and 10 hours solo minimums. If there are logbook entries in your logbook that are flown at another flight school then you need to have some sort of "chain of evidence" to prove that the hours are correct.

I agree going solo abroad is a completely different matter requiring pre approval, medicals, provisional licences, air law etc.

Agreed. If you fly solo, you are P1, not P/ut or something. To fly P1 you need a license, even if it's just a student pilot license that limits you to fly solo (no pax), under supervision and after careful scrutiny by an instructor of your flight preparation. But these student pilot licenses are not a JAA thing so they don't normally apply outside the country where they were issued.

My club organizes this summer camp week every year, taking place in France. Before the trip, they write to the French authorities asking them for permission for the RPLs (=Dutch NPPL) and students that are participating, to fly there, solo or with pax as appropriate for their license. This permission is normally granted without further problems, but it has to be arranged nevertheless.

[kookabat]

PS Not sure where in Oz you're going but if it's Sydney, then Bankstown is the big GA field there.

But consider Camden if you don't mind the extra 20min in the car... it's quieter and a couple of the operators there have some brand-spanking-new aeroplanes that are MUCH more impressive than many of the ones you'd get at BK...

[MACH082]

royal aero club of WA in Perth do JAR training worth a look!

[BackPacker]

Under the auspicies of what JAA member state then? It's not the CAA, AFAIK, and I didn't think any of the other JAA member states certified foreign schools.

Edited to say that I checked their website and there's no mention of any JAA training whatsoever that I can find.