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View Full Version : Ahern: Aer Lingus May Close Thursday Unless Unions Agree Redundancies


The Guvnor
4th Nov 2001, 13:55
From today's Sunday Times:

Aer Lingus is set to collapse,
warns Ahern

Fiona McHugh


AER LINGUS, the cash-strapped state airline, could be shut down as early as this week, the government has warned.

At a meeting last Wednesday, Bertie Ahern, the taoiseach, told union bosses that company directors would have no choice but to "call it a day" when the board convened on Thursday if significant progress was not made on a rescue plan before then.

The message has prompted a series of meetings between the company and its unions, and a deal between the two sides now looks likely.

Aer Lingus managers, assisted by a team of company doctors, recently devised a survival package that involves more than 2,000 workers losing their jobs and 25% of the airline's routes being chopped. The company's unions refused to agree to the plan, however, saying the £40m redundancy offer was too meagre.

Ahern was said to have adopted a robust approach at last week's meeting, spelling out the consequences of ongoing opposition to restructuring. The taoiseach said the company's directors could be found liable for reckless trading if they continued to do business without any prospect of cost-cutting measures being implemented. Aer Lingus is gobbling cash at a rate of £2m a day and could run out of money as early as January.

This weekend the airline dropped plans to farm out some of its business, persuading unions to enter negotiations on restructuring. Aer Lingus had hoped to outsource catering, information technology, loading and aircraft cleaning to four newly created subsidiaries, but the measures were resisted by workers' representatives.

With the European commission refusing to yield on the issue of state aid, the airline's options are limited.

Its directors could call in an examiner, who would be charged by a court to take measures to save the company or close it. That, at least, would take the airline's problems out of the political realm, and it might also help to persuade Brussels that it is indeed in danger of folding.

Under competition law, state aid may be granted to a public company if it is bankrupt. On the downside, it would make it
difficult for Aer Lingus to continue trading as normal. Appointing an examiner would make creditors nervous, prompting some to refuse to do business with it for fear they might not be paid.

Alternatively, unions and their members could agree to the rescue package, but that would mean accepting attendant redundancies and changes to work practices.

This option would probably allow the airline to survive without a cash injection from the government and give it a better chance of attracting private investors.

The government also appears to be acknowledging the need to create a low-fare air hub in Ireland. There are indications it will move to break Aer Rianta's monopoly, paving the way for new no-frills routes to Europe.

Michael O'Leary, Ryanair's chief executive, is seeking permission to build a second terminal at Dublin airport. If he gets the go-ahead, the company says it would lay on cheap flights to eight European destinations, six from the capital and two from Shannon. That would bring an estimated 1m extra tourists into the country next year.

Industry representatives claim the September 11 attacks, which have deterred people from flying, could lead to the loss of 14,000 tourism jobs in Ireland in 2002. In an uncharacteristic display of reticence, O'Leary refused to comment on a meeting he had with the taoiseach last week or on the prospects of reaching a deal. His silence could indicate that concessions are possible.

gyrohead
4th Nov 2001, 19:17
Thanks for the post Guv. Probably wouldn't have seen it otherwise. I see some people who need to get a life are having difficulty facing up to the reality of the situation. Maybe they think if they didn't see or read the article the problem would go away!!
:p Keep up the good work!

SkyCruiser
4th Nov 2001, 20:21
Airbourne,

I was also fed up with the Guv's postings a couple of weeks ago. I therefore posted a similar post as yours, but I got totally slated so be prepared for an onslaught of replys.

SC.... :cool: :cool: :cool: :cool:

airbourne
4th Nov 2001, 20:27
Skycruiser,

Thanks for that, but it looks like someone removed my reply to that which does wonders for the whole free speech thing.
Whichever moderator removed my post, poor shame on you!

mutt
4th Nov 2001, 21:12
Airborne

What is so wrong with the Guv posting news related topics? Please don’t forget that not all Ppruners live in the UK or Ireland.

I most certainly do not have the time to trawl both English and Irish websites for stories like these. I therefore find them extremely interesting.

One of the wonderful new functions on IE6.0 is the BACK button, I find it invaluable when I find things that I dont want to read. You should try using it :)

Mutt.

The Guvnor
4th Nov 2001, 23:26
Airborne - if you have a problem with the article, complain to The Sunday Times - they wrote it, not me.

It's news; and it's about commercial aviation, so it's legitimately here. As Gyrohead and Mutt (and many others in the past) have said they live overseas and therefore don't have access to UK papers and don't really want to spend hours trawling through the world's press websites.

If you don't like the subject - don't read it! I think my thread header gives a pretty good idea of what it's likely to be about.

Not one of those SIPTU ostriches, are you by any chance? :D :rolleyes: :D

fionan
5th Nov 2001, 00:18
Guvnor,
I think you will find that most of those who complain about your posts are not bothered by the news item itself but the bile that you frequently attach to it(witness your last post). :rolleyes: :rolleyes: ;)

[ 04 November 2001: Message edited by: westman ]

fopaddy
5th Nov 2001, 03:17
Lets face it, Aer Lingus did not start having a bad day just because of 11/09/01. Its problems were well being incubated before that. Money was being wasted by this giant for years, overnights in the Aghadoe Heights hotel for crews, Transport for crews to City Centre hotels for overnights because they would not stay in Airport hotels. This is just a tiny example, there is a lot more. Money going to waste.

You cannot run any airline without keeping your overheads at a rerasonable level, AL should have grabbed the bull by the horns a long time ago and battled with the Unions to reduce operating costs. They never tightened the belt. Well Over crewed, well over staffed, well fed on board, well watered by the free booze coming off in the crew overnight bags, and well on the way to collapse as a result. People, dont blame Osama Bin Laden, Dont blame the Government, Dont blame the travelling public. BLAME the greedy among your colleagues.

Let Aer Lingus go bust, let it collapse. Perhaps then from the ashes a new leaner model will arise like a pheonix which will serve us all better. Mr Ahearn as an Irish Tax payer I ask you not to give these wasteful people my money. Thank you.!!!!!!!!!!!

fionan
5th Nov 2001, 05:19
Why is it the people who know the least speak the most."well Over crewed (sic)" The flight crew were owed 10,000 weeks leave pre sept. 11.Both flight and cabin crews are amongst the lowest paid in Europe.While I dont dispute the over-staffed point,the rest of the last post is just adolescent vitriol.(AKA O'Leary speak) :rolleyes: :rolleyes: ;)

[ 05 November 2001: Message edited by: westman ]

maxalt
5th Nov 2001, 06:02
I've been visiting this website a long time now, and I've seen the media come in for enormous ammounts of stick over the years. Remember the hype and exaggeration over the 'drunken pilots' stories? Where'd that one go to? We've all joined AA evidently.

Then there are the accident reports, where you cringe as you read the ignorant remarks of the lazy hacks who churned the garbage out after another boozy lunch break.

Yes, we've proven our credentials as true cynics when it comes to media reporting.

And yet....along comes a nice juicy hyped up piece of tripe, and what happens? The loonies come out of the wood pile and start rubbing their hands with glee. Eating up every bit of the garbage, like they came down with the last shower of rain. Sad.

Read it again kiddies. The evidence of its tripyness was in the third line!

The message has prompted a series of meetings between the company and its unions, and a deal between the two sides now looks likely.

In other words..."Ignore everything I just said about the imminent closure of Aer Lingus, a deal is in the offing. Hack Hack."

Why waste our time? :rolleyes:

Donkey Duke
5th Nov 2001, 11:15
I jumpsat once in an Aer Lingus 737-400 from
SNN to LHR and was very impressed with the crew. They were not only good aviators but also seemed to have a good work ethic. If their airline was "going down the tubes" I am
sure they would agree to something that would save it. But let's face it, the competition is fierce--Ryanair undercutting everyone, Middy, Go, and Easy all ready to bite. And what is with the A330 from DUB or SNN to LAX? Do people in LA actually fly to
DUB and connect to Europe? Maybe Scottland.
I think and Hope Aer Lingus will make it.
Go Shamrock! And boo to the GUVnor.

You know it. Donkey Duke :cool: :cool:

MarkD
5th Nov 2001, 14:02
Donkey Duke,

if DUB or SNN were full hubs as DXB seems to be trying to do [see Emirates Optimistic] then there might be some opportunities flying say Nokia executives from Helsinki to LA via DUB. Unfortunately the stopover forces a division of resources and there also seems to be a lack of innovative marketing - why come up with a strategy when you can just throw money at the Ryder Cup???

bearfacedcheek
6th Nov 2001, 00:06
Hope the Shamrock lives and returns to full greenery and not just for St.Paddys day.

Even though one works for a competitor ,I wish all of the staff the very best in the uncertain weeks and months to follow.

However ,and this is a big HOWEVER,
the companys management and or unions have been very wasteful over the past years.

I don't doubt that the crews are owed 10,000 holidays(info from a previous post)but if this is the case I find the senario even more baffling ,

I know pilots who have worked 300 hours last year.some fly 2 days a week and the company has until recently had contract pilots (F/Os) on staff.

This unfortunately is just the tip of the iceberg .I've read recently that a 25% pay rise has been approved for the pilots when and if the company returns to good fortune

OH Come on.

Sorry ,but it just doesnt make any sence

I could go on ,but whats the point

Anyway I wish the companies employees all the best for the future.Who knows where any of us will find ourselves this time next year

those who live in glass houses and all that!

Idunno
6th Nov 2001, 06:18
barefaced thanks for the good wishes.

On the other issues, let me clarify things. There's so much spin out there.

You're right...it's baffling how the pilots could end up with 10,000 weeks leave outstanding. But unfortunately it's true. The figure was even higher just a few months ago.

How could it happen?
Simple.
The very same way most ***k-ups happened in the company...crap planning, and even worse management.

While the recruiting bods were working overtime to hire hundreds of new recruits, the planners couldn't decide what to do with them.

Flight Ops Mismanagement refused (where possible) to upgrade senior F/Os to command in order to save money on commanders pay, even though the Captains were undercrewed on every fleet except the A330.

This is a well known practice in Aer Lingus Flight Ops Mismanagement, it is known as 'crewing for the shoulder'. It simply means that they never crew to meet peak period requirements, but aim to get by on good will and bribery.

Unfortunately too many pilots colluded with this practice so they usually got away with it. It's the main reason why all that leave accumulated.

Captains couldn't get any leave, and the F/Os were in such a glut on the B737 and A321 fleet that they hardly worked at all.

(And when The Guvnor jumps in to tell us this is good fiscal practice, I trust he'll explain how he'd deal with the resultant backlog of accumulated leave.)

Bizarrely they wouldn't put F/Os on the 146 to spread the numbers out better. This was so they could save a few quid on training. They could do A321 and B737 type-training 'in-house' with their own sims, but had to pay for sim time at Woodford with BAe on the 146.

So the undercrewed 146 F/O's are breaking their arses while B737 F/O's were fighting with each other for sectors!

The pay rise. Sick of hearing about it really.

A pay claim was lodged 18 months ago, in the 'good times'.

Whether you think it was deserved or not is beside the point, an adjudicator was accepted by both sides to decide that.

Trouble was that he dragged it out until just last week.
Meantime all other grades in the company had received pay increases of up to 30%. Many of them deserved it due to the abominable pay rates they were on at the time. 30% of ****** all is still ****** all.

So the pilots got no increase.
They also didn't get the 5.5% PPF payment. Let's call that a 35.5% total hit so far in lost relativity.

The adjudicator was scheduled to make his findings public on September 12th.
He cancelled and recalled all parties.

The 'revised finding' was published last week. It did not constitute a 25% rise. It was well less than that.
And it's academic anyhow because they aren't gonna get it.
Obviously.

So now we're looking at a total potential pay hit of around 25% for most Aer Lingus pilots.

Thats only the beginning because many have unfortunately been made redundant, and more are likely to follow.

The company also want contract concessions, like giving up contract days off.

So please, don't be misled into thinking the pilots in ALT are being unrealistic.

Unfortunately, and as usual, they are the first group in the airline to feel the pain. It comes with the territory.

Oh, by the way, if this airline survives, and if it some day returns to profit (which it certainly will do or it's a goner) then why shouldn't the pilots get their pay rise?

If they don't, and if things elsewhere are at all better, there won't be many pilots interested in working for Aer Lingus in the future. :rolleyes:

[ 06 November 2001: Message edited by: Idunno ]