Qantas looking overseas for workers (SMH)

[Short_Circuit]

The writing is on the wall
DG drives the wedge in deeper.
(note the warning to the Labor Gov in 2nd last paragraph)!

http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2007/11/18/1195321606761.html

[Trojan1981]

Rudd will win, workchoices gone.....I hope

[lowerlobe]

This shows the arrogance and little regard for Australians this company has when they threaten a democratically elected government (If they win).

I also find the contradiction puzzling when Dixon say's that to provide jobs growth in Australia we have to hire people offshore!!!!!!

This is on top of todays revised upward profit growth........

[Short_Circuit]

Moderator

I believe that as QF Engineering is about to vote on their EBA & this
would be vital news on what is happening at QF in regards to bulling
a YES votes. I do not believe Engineers are to interested in FAAA / LH
treads that they will read page after page of unrelated guff when there
are more important threads to view.

S_cct :oh:

[Shitsu_Tonka]

The airline has also warned the Labor Party not to bring through any major changes to the Howard Government's Work Choices industrial relations laws if it wins the federal election this weekend.

Who the fckU does he think he is?

If the ALP are voted in it is exactly for this reason.

GD might not subscribe to democracy, but it may be about to catch up with his arrogance.

[Razor]

Midnight
This isn't just about cabin crew in the long run but all QF employees. Nothing wrong with a separate thread.


That said....locking in any sort of EBA will have to be carefully considered by the membership involved (cabin crew, engrs, pilots, etc). Until work choices can be changed then the ball is firmly in GDs hands unless you make sure you plug the gaps. AWAs and overseas employees are a lever.

[lowerlobe]

Members of the board were instrumental in the setting up of the IR laws that Howard bought in.From memory MJ and Darth both had a hand in the rules and obviously they know what they need to achieve their objectives.

This threat shows to me that they are worried about Labor winning.....

[priapism]

Dixon's arrogance is breathtaking !

If I were Rudd this would be like a red rag to a bull .

And what is Dixon going to do if Labour sticks to it's policy ?? Take his bat and ball and run off to mum???

To add insult to injury if I were Rudd and Labour wins , I would not only abolish AWA's , I would remove all government contacts awarded to Q.F and take them elsewhere.

I hope Rudd has got the ticker to stick to his policy and not try to appease bullies like Dixon by offering a watered down one.

[notmyC150v2]

There will be no wholesale changes to workchoices. Unfortunately the ALP has already stated that they will only make it more "fair". They are still saying they will scrap AWA's but I don't really believe they will.

They have flagged that common law contract of employment will overrule Awards for employees who earn more than (I think) $90,000 per annum.

The Union rights of entry will not be changed.

The registration methods for collective agreements will not be changed.

Hopefully, (for my sake considering I have to look at it at least 3 times a day) the Act will be simplified but even then there is no guarantee.

I think the threat from GD was disgusting but I think it was aimed solely at ensuring that AWA's are not abolished. From my observations of the election thus far, I think he may just get his wish.

Interestingly, with the Department of Immigration now making it virtually impossible to bring in workers on 457 visas any foreign workers will have to be based overseas. I doubt very much that he will be able to import them.

[ABX]

I simply cannot comprehend the arrogance of the QF board/upper management!

These people are something else, who the hell do they think they are?

_______

Midnight - you nearly fit in that group too, applications for moderators on this forum have closed mate, go back to being an ordinary poster. There is nothing wrong with a separate thread for this recent event.

And short circuit, could you pls check the QF LH thread before starting new topics as this was posted some time ago.

How? The article in Short Circuit's link was in the SMH today!:ugh:

[mach2male]

This has relevance to ALL QF staff not just crew.
It is most important that this issue has its own thread whether you (dont)think so or not.

[ABX]

Sorry Officer Midnight Sir, I do apologise, I will be sure to submit all my new threads to you for approval before I actually start them.

I am sure the mods here appreciate all your hard work.

Perhaps you'll find a job in QF management when you get tired of moderating here!:ok:

[Short_Circuit]

Ouch :mad:, what are those shinny things sticking into my back.
Et tu, Brute :suspect:

[Chicken or Fish?]

Midnight-63,

Because @#$@$ it was posted about six hrs earlier in the QF LH thread..
Now back under your rock

You arrogance is unbelievable!

Whilst I cannot stand Dixon I can understand why he wants to get rid of Cabin Crew like yourself.

People like yourself is why I choose not to fly QF!

[Capt Kremin]

Marty Levitt was a very successful union buster in the States until he recanted, wrote a book about the tactics that big companies use and continues to speak to whoever will listen to this day.

Here are a couple of youtube videos. If you think Oldmeadow and Co don't operate from this guys textbook, you are dreaming.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2qajBfEdzoE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ddjIJ-4y1mw

[notmyC150v2]

Kapt,

That was "The Advocate" wasn't it? I read the book at Uni and was horrified (and continue to be so). During an interview for a Union position two years ago I was asked by the Secretary what I thought IR would look like in 2008.

I used that book as a guide. He didn't disagree. :(

[gigs]

with the smh article re. new cabin crew company for Qantas does this mean mam will go? interesting that the last mam thread is closed for posting? gigs

[lovelondon]

The fact that a MAM thread is closed on this forum would have absolutely nothing to do with the supply of flight attendants by MAM to Qantas. I am sure Maurice has a contractual arrangement with QF and he wouldn't be silly enough to have an agreement which allowed QF to pull the pin on him at any moment unless of course that contract expires very soon.

There is of course nothing to stop the company from placing any newly recruited flight attendants under the umbrella of a different labour hire company.

[Qantas 787]

So in this case, who should we vote for?

[Spaz Modic]

:} If Pretty Boy Pixie wins, you can all bet your b**lls or your left t**ties that nothing going to change for you jet jocks and wannabes'. Old Mumbles and the Red Headed Terror just love rich silvertails like you. Don't matter you're not- it's the perception.
You can bet your bottom buck all the favours are gonna be called in by the 70% front bench, and PB Pixie ain't gonna be able to do a thing about it. Then y'all might get a bit of dutch courage and with hand in the air say "ME TOO!". And old Mumbles and the Red Headed Terror will cast a glance your way and say "you're only rich over paid bus drivers", as they recall it's been said before. :}:ok:

[galdian]

And now for the stupid question:

Is this new company, which has current QF management as directors, actually a part of Qantas or a totally separate operation which means that current management will be awarding contracts to themselves??

The words "conflict of interest" spring to mind for no imaginable reason!

[Zenreverend]

No wonder the @rse has fallen out of employee's morale over the last few years and performance and resulting customer satisfaction has gone.
Is this the attempt to bring in 'sweatshop labour'?
And if the cabin crew recruits haven't already got jobs with other western airlines, are they going to speak English as a 2nd language? 3rd? That'll work well in a noisy cabin... :ugh:

After some shocking experiences flying as pax with Qantas about 5 years ago, I haven't flown with them since and can't see a time when I ever would again.

It's been said before - QF is turning into a budget airline for which you pay premium prices. I can only imagine the disappointment of all the employees who built Qantas's reputation over the past decades.... :sad:

[surfside6]

Nobody Cares.
It would seem that Dixon has spent a great deal of time and energy emotionally "Disconnecting" the Australian population from Qantas.
Criticism of QF 20 years ago was non existent.As has been said Qantas was held in great affection and esteem by the population ...much like your favourite maiden aunt.By treating all and sundry with contempt Dixon has destroyed that relationship forever to the point where no one is surprised by Qantas' stupidity and arrogance.Qantas now has a particularly disingenuos attitude towards Australians and the Australian workforce.
Many young Australians had high hopes of working for Qantas as Engineers,pilots,cabin crew or groundstaff...not any more.They are either deprived of the opportunity,by employment opportunities being sent off shore,or they realize that employment with QF is toxic.

[lowerlobe]

...And yet he has no problem pushing the 'Spirit of Australia'...'The Flying Kangaroo'....and an Australian choir.

[surfside6]

Pure crap jingoistic.Foreigners may buy that nonsense....but most Australians dont,particularly after they have experienced the Qantas Reality.

[lowerlobe]

I don't agree...

If you think about it the entire Peter Allen song "I still call Australia home' is angled at Australians sentimentality.

To anyone else it wouldn't have the same meaning but they are playing to Australians who are or will be away from home....

Then in the same breath they threaten to employ overseas staff.

[surfside6]

Gee...what a surprise!!!

[priapism]

I don't agree either surfside.

This "aussie icon" rubbish that Q.F markets so very well goes straight down the throat of the average aussie ,who remains totally and blissfully ignorant of the machinations of Q.F management - unless they manage to actually read the business pages once they have finished the sport and cartoons.
Fact remains is that Q.F is still viewed as a huge employer of Aussies and proudly Australian.

You overestimate their intelligence.

[lowerlobe]

Errr.... Priapism..

I was talking about the angle QF are trying to achieve not whether Australians swallow it or not....

My point is that the company is hypocritical and whether the public believes them is another matter....

[aircraft]

You call him arrogant but he is just doing his job.

If your union were making forthright demands, I'm sure you wouldn't be screaming "arrogant" and asking "just who do they think they are?". You would just be saying "that is our union - they are just trying to look after their members".

So, why can't you accept that "that is Dixon - just trying to look after his shareholders".

Has it occurred to any Qantas employees on this thread that what is good for Qantas tends to be good for them?

Similarly, what is "good" for the employee is not necessarily good for Qantas - so will most probably turn out bad for the employee.

[Skystar320]

You call him arrogant but he is just doing his job.
If your union were making forthright demands, I'm sure you wouldn't be screaming "arrogant" and asking "just who do they think they are?". You would just be saying "that is our union - they are just trying to look after their members".
So, why can't you accept that "that is Dixon - just trying to look after his shareholders".
Has it occurred to any Qantas employees on this thread that what is good for Qantas tends to be good for them?
Similarly, what is "good" for the employee is not necessarily good for Qantas - so will most probably turn out bad for the employee.
Stop dribbling your bull**** aircraft

[cartexchange]

priapism
I agree 100%, I couldn't have put it better myself.

[Capt Kremin]

SkyStar, my new ignore list (population one) won't work properly if you keep quoting him.

please keep this in mind....;)

[windytown]

Living in NZ and often talking to Australians who visit for work or leisure (and have no interest in aviation), Australians are surprisingly inclined to fly QF (and even Jetstar), even if it involves paying a noticeable premium over NZ where both are flying narrowbodies on the relevant Tasman routes, and the NZ A320 is far newer and can do the route slightly quickly than the Jetconnect 733. I can understand for some with QF lounge access, but for the infrequent travellers their is strong sense of using QF as the default carrier even when they do not have any solid explanation for the decision.

[silvafox]

Ahh aircraft... you just keep spinning the ****e and enjoy the last days of the government as come Saturday you will be as relevant as them. Obviously mate you have never held a leadership position in your life, and no manager at the local Blockbuster doesn't count. Why don't you do some research on a little airline called Air New Zealand and the leadership styles of CEO's Norris and Fyfe (link below). Do the whole thread a favour champion and just retire into your self interested liberal pork barreling wankers club.

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,22256523-23349,00.html

[aircraft]

silvafox,

Thanks for the link. I was already aware of these developments at Air New Zealand and have been expecting somebody to bring this up.

An interesting experiment - being watched closely, I'm sure, by not just other airlines, but a large slice of the service industry.

I believe this is not the first time this particular experiment has been conducted. Perhaps someone can enlighten us.

[silvafox]

Aircraft, this has been used for the past thousand years and is not a new and outstanding theory. Any good leader worth their salt firstly get their staff, followers or whatever you want to call them onside and then the results flow. Treat them like the valuable assets they are and they will display loyalty like nothing else. Alexander the Great, Sun Tzu, Jesus Christ, Napoleon are all just some of the examples of this. No goal is insurmountable when you have your 'subjects, soldiers or staff' with you. The good leader not only recognises this but acts on it. With power comes great responsibility.. not to abuse it. Qantas staff deserve a leader that recognises the challenges they face at the 'sharp end' each day and will act on them. To quote a letter to the editor in todays SMH, "we want to live in a community, not an economy". Profits to the big end of town do nothing to encourage a sense of belonging to a community where the rich get richer and the gap between the have and have nots gets larger.

[mrpaxing]

silvafox, this management practise has been around for a very long time. incidently, aircraft, this engagement comes from the hospitality industry.
it gives the engaged managers an insight as to the challenges on the day, whatever department it may be. not that GD would be interested in it.:ugh:

[lowerlobe]

I find it not only sad but an indictment on Australian management that someone would think that working with your employee's is an experiment!!!!!

If anyone has been watching the TV series On James Cook you will see this as another example of not only a great explorer but a great leader.

Cook had the admiration and respect of his men because of his actions.

His idea on preventing scurvy was brilliant not only for it's concept but it's execution.

The men did not want to eat it so he made sure that all officers and himself ate the pickled cabbage.

This example set By Cook was symptomatic of his leadership style.He knew his success depended on the health of his men.

It is evident that todays corporate leadership is less innovative than Cooks pickled cabbage....

[WynSock]

AIRCRAFT, me old mate,

speaking of leadership, or yawning lack of it at QF for example,

ever heard of Shackleton?
He intended to lead the first expedition to complete a land crossing of the South Pole. However, when his ship Endurance became trapped in the ice floe, its sinking became inevitable and the crew were forced to begin
life on the ice.

Against seemingly hopeless odds, with almost no food or fuel, Shackleton managed to keep his 27 man crew alive for two terrifying years. He is acknowledged now as one of the great leaders of all time.

Two Years, 'aircraft'. And how did he do this?

The Australian article:Possibly the greatest challenges for airline management today is to convince staff of the need for change - made far more difficult when management itself is not prepared to lead by example.He led by example. Thats how. He kept the crew alive. Pulling together, they survived.

It is not an experiment.

You dork.

[aircraft]

I was of course referring to the particular way that Air New Zealand are going about it - surely that was obvious.

One day each month, each senior executive spends the day doing either check in, baggage handling, or flight attendant duties.

I believe there are no other airlines that are doing this, so this clearly is an experiment in airline employer/employee relations.

[BrisBoy]

I believe Southwest Airlines have been doing this for some time and Gordon Bethune's turnaround of Continental, after the Lorenzo disaster, may make interesting reading for someone interested in effective airline management.

[Mud Skipper]

Lowerlobe,

Yes sadly this is no 'Endeavour' and not even 'Bounty' which we crew and which might physically bound us all together.

No, the leaders have their chests of gold neatly stowed away and will soon retire, not flounder, on that a tropical coast and ski with a yen for sport on frozen plains and lily white slopes.

Perhaps it's more the shame we can not storm the masters cabin, alas Little Johnny's guards have had pistols drawn in defence for some time now.
It may be, after Saturday, their powder will not be so dry - Folly thoe to forget who made us walk the plank last time we stirred their nest.

I hear talk of FOG soon, ahhhg! wouldn't that be nice then.:}:}:}

[radiation junkie]

Yes it's FOG and it's also "Hello" as his new "endeavour" will supply cheap contract labour to Qantas and sort out that pesky FAAA and it's overpriced crew . The only "bounty" here is a bounty of cash for GD and PG. BAH ! HUMBUG ! ...must be getting close to Christmas...