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intrepidvoyager
13th Nov 2007, 14:14
717 - 200 fuel data needed - thanks

Hi ............. I am trying to contact a 717 – 200 ( or similar aircraft ) pilot who can give me an idea of how much fuel would be used on a 110 mile flight with 123 passengers on a 717. That’s the flight from Oahu to Kauai. I am working with a group on Kauai opposed to the Superferry. Hawaii Superferry claims that the Superferry has a lower carbon footprint per (RPM) than the 717-200 flown by Hawaiian Airlines. We say nonsense. The Superferry burns 6000 gallons of diesel to transport 500 passengers the 110 miles by sea. We estimate that 123 passengers can be flown the 110 miles on a 717-200 for less than 1000 gallons of jet fuel , perhaps as little as 700 gallons, but are not sure. A ball park figure would be fine. If you can help that would be greatly appreciated. If you would like to call me you can reach me at 604 266 6306 ……. And if you are interested in the overall picture of what’s at stake on Kauai please visit boycottsuperferry.org …………. Thanks, Bob :ok:

TopBunk
13th Nov 2007, 16:19
IV

Not exactly what you asked for, but an A319 (similar size as B717) burns approx 10kgs per nm as trip fuel. So LHR-MAN (160nm = 1600kgs)

In your example, 110 nautical miles = 1100kgs = 1375 litres of fuel, or less by about 15% if you are talking statute miles.

I'll let you convert to your version of the gallon:8

IRRenewal
13th Nov 2007, 21:11
What's the speed of his ferry?

Re-Heat
13th Nov 2007, 21:22
But before you use those figures, you need fuel burnt to carry additional fuel required for holding, diversion and contingency, carried on every flight.

Your best bet is to speak to Hawaiian themselves, not take guesstimates from here with the wrong aircraft to be honest.

To be completely transparent, you must also consider cargo carried

TopBunk
14th Nov 2007, 05:58
The original post askedwho can give me an idea of how much fuel would be used on a 110 mile flightThat is what I have done for a fully loaded A319. It is the fuel burn - that allows for the burn due to carrying the mandatory elements in the required fuel. The extra fuel required to be loaded is still there:ugh:

I contend that an A319 is broadly similar to the B717.

Capn Bloggs
14th Nov 2007, 08:59
Top Bunk is almost spot on (I'd rather be in a pretend-Boeing though:}). The FCOM says 1000kg for 110nm, landing at 45tonnes.

He's also spot on about the other stuff! :{

lotman1000
14th Nov 2007, 09:20
As reheat suggested don't forget the cargo....

As well as 400-500 passengers, the ferry also carries 110 cars, if I've got it right. Sounds a bit like the X-Channel hi-speed ferries between the UK and France. If we assume that they would be transported by sea in any event (not necessarily so, but quite likely) your comparative sums would start to look a bit different.

But on the other hand, there's the whales to think about; I imagine a ferry would give one a nasty headache, if it didn't hear it coming and dive in time. The whale, I mean, not the ferry. That is, if the whale didn't hear the ferry and dive, not if the ferry didn't hear the whale and dive...Oh God how did I get into this.......heeeeelp....

Re-Heat
14th Nov 2007, 09:26
TopBunk - I'm not criticising what you have provided, but the purpose for the information requires it to be more accurate for the benefit of both sides of the argument - your figures are a great guide, but are not for a Hawaiian B717 flight, and should not be used in any PR campaign as such.

The B717 is a far lighter aircraft unladen; not to mention, it does not carry pallets, and carries fewer passengers.

Please bear this in mind if using the information.

Capt Claret
14th Nov 2007, 11:15
intrepidvoyager
I regularly operate a 179nm sector in a B717-200, both engines 18k & 21.5K. Fuel burn ranges from 1400kg to 1900kg, depending upon the usual variables of wind & weight. Even landing at gross weight (49.895k) at ISA +15, with a 60kt HWC, the highest burn I've seen is 1900kg (2400l; 529 imperial gallons, 634 US gallons). :}

lotman1000
14th Nov 2007, 11:47
Thanks for that...I've been searching all morning for the Jet A1 weight >volume conversion factor, for another piece of work!

displaced gangster
14th Nov 2007, 23:16
Most Australian operators (ISA +10/15) use an SG of .79,does however increase with temperature reductions. I can recall a record setting ferry flight of QF's first 744 from UK to SY non stop using a "chilled" blend of avtur to maximise range.

Rumour has it that a wx requirement approaching SY almost required a diversion.:cool:

mabrodb
19th Nov 2007, 06:13
HNL-LIH = 2400lbs (358 usg @ 6.7 density)
LIH-HNL = 2200lbs (328 usg @ 6.7 density)