Worst Airport Experience? (operating as flight crew)

[virga67]

Let me start out. What do you think is the worst airport out there?
For me it must be London Heathrow. Last night we had to wait for more than 45 minutes for a stand. Recently I've had to wait for over 1 hour before a stand was available. On the return flight last night the Victors were closed for almost two hours due to a broken tug and there was no way around that area. Awfull for crew, awfull for the pax.

[Dave Gittins]

Last twice I've flown into T4 with BA have had to wait 40 mins or so for a stand. On both occasions waiting for a Sri Lankan to vacate the stand first.

Last time - in August - it was compounded by another 45 minute wait for the bags to make the carousel. ... which was after the 1/2 hour it took us to get there through immigration.

What made it even worse was this was after a 3 hr BA tech delay. ..... or perhaps the delays at LHR were as a result of that ???

[Check Airman]

Never experienced this myself, but I once heard Air France complaining to KJFK ground that they'd been on the ground for 1:45 after landing.:{

[Farrell]

Hands down...........Delhi

[Airbus Unplugged]

Heathrow by several miles.

From delays on the ground to delays in the air, nightmare taxying round WIP, stand guidance, congestion, disruption due to minor issues that other airports would shrug off, de-icing on stand followed by one hour delay, having to wait till you're fully ready for your 20 minute start-up delay, ground transport, customs, security - SECURITY - Oh my sweet God Security, where do they get off?, hotels, taxi drivers, rip-off Britain


. . .and the weather


Best sight at Heathrow? Greens, reds, lights out, after take-off checklist.:{

[spud]

Heathrow, followed by Manchester. Dreadful queues, dreadful attitudes, dreadful infrastructure. As a heavy metal driver, Manchester taxiways beggar belief.

[Shiny side down]

JFK is pretty awful. Perversely, I find it a satisfying experience. Almost like 'I did that, and survived!'

ATC quality is really variable, with ground freq entertainingly unhelpful.
Ramp control just a less qualified version of ground, but with more attitude.
Certain handling agents that are simply the most obstructive unhelpful and individually lazy people I have ever come across.

The whole place is a complete contrast to Boston.

All I can say is the likes of Virgin and BA crews, plus the US flt crews of course, must have the patience of saints when operating in there at peak times on a regular basis.

Heathrow, I have only ever operated into at night, and it wasn't so bad, but then the corporate end of the place is quite quick to get through.

[call100]

All UK airports are shocking !!! the way passengers are treated is absolutely appauling.

That's a bit sweeping:eek:....I don't see many A/C waiting long for stands at Birmingham. We have a pretty good record I think...
I flew into Heathrow from Canada and we waited 55 mins for a stand. The stand planning must be a nightmare there.

[Fly3]

Would have to agree with Heathrow. Waiting for stands seems to be the norm now but is that an airport problem or and airline induced delay because they have cut back so much on ground staff I wonder. The treatment by security staff leaves a lot to be desired and as for the "secondary" shoe screening station-don't get me started!

[AltFlaps]

We ran out of coffee once - IT WAS HORRIBLE

[cwatters]

Talking of heathrow...

http://business.timesonline.co.uk/tol/business/industry_sectors/transport/article2846626.ece

Extracts..

CONTROVERSIAL plans to increase the number of flights at Heathrow by one-third are to be unveiled by the government.

If adopted, the proposals would see the number of flights increase from the current 480,000 to 720,000 by the end of the next decade.

While the new runway could not open until 2015 and probably much later more flights could be using Heathrow’s current runways within two years.

This will be done by changing the way Heathrow operates. Under an agreement between the airport and local councils, the runways work in “segregated mode”, with one used for takeoff and one for landing.

The consultation document will suggest a switch to “mixed mode” where aircraft take off and land on each runway, as they do at most British airports. This would increase Heathrow’s capacity from 480,000 flights a year to around 550,000.

[Shiny side down]

Have we stopped using a base10 numerical system, or are there dodgy bean counters trying to fool us with the numbers?

[fmgs]

Happiness is V1 at Lagos!

[HM79]

If you think the Ground frequency at JFK is the worst, being one of the peolpe that work that frequency, I would welcome the opportunity to bring you to the tower and show you what it's like from the other side of the radio.
Or of course being the experienced worldwide flyer that you are, I would welcome any and all constructive comments as to how you think the atc system at JFK could serve your needs better.:confused:

[Yossarian]

Lagos has gotta be a contender. At least at LHR they let you know if the rwy is closed, unlike Lagos, where anything goes, including inbound traffic jumping your level, clearance onto closed rwy and power failures on final in dicey wx.

Then you get on the ground and the fun really starts............

[virga67]

How about Amsterdam Schiphol because of poor lay-out and awfull ATC attitude?

[Piltdown Man]

I don't agree with you Virga. The place works because it is both consistent and flexible (if that make sense). It may well be a fair old drive to and/or from the active runway, but it does work and if you are not rude to them, they will not be rude to you (in fact if you are charming they will normally respond in kind). And how many airports of this size in Europe can you pitch up and fly a visual approach and arrival or come to that, buzz the tower?

The places I really detest: NWI, LHR, MME, MAN, BHX, GLA, NCL, TLL. Not one of these because of ATC but because of the Gestapo that calls itself Security and/or the pointless procedures put in place by numpties called management and/or the dreadful handling you receive.

PM

[Daysleeper]

Philly, KPHL

Frieght Charter, no stand available, so offload on the taxiway then get pushed to a de-icing bay for parking (summer time), then ages in handling office persuading them that we had to go through immigration as we had come in from the UK and couldn't just walk out their office door as they wanted us to, got to immigration about 2 hours after arriving.....then we were held for 4 hours in immigration cos we weren't on the INS computer as arriving cos the handlers hadn't told them about us :ugh:

Then get to customs to be asked where our freight is....I have no idea, it went on a truck 6 hours ago! More grief from them about being responsible for the freight (yeah right)

Then find instead of the downtown hotel we asked for we have a budget holiday inn on a freeway junction next to the airport :\

Total time from brakes on to the hotel....7 hours. Then I got phoned up after 4 hours sleep by my company to bring the aircraft home urgent, when I told them to F.off they said, well youve had minimum rest :{

[JJflyer]

LHR. No doubt about that. Closely followed by LGW. Both compare nicely with thirld world airports like LOS or KRT. Good ones: ARN, OSL, FRA, AMS.

[Johnman]

HM79
I was wondering why you don't apply SLOT times for departures instead of having delays on taxiways,I had a delay of two and a half hours once and I've always wondered why you let everyone taxi out knowing that there will be unreasonable or extensive delays . it is annoying to all involved(pilots , pax,ATC,airlines..etc).Thank you.

[Ennie]

Madrid!

Need I go on?

[batman767]

No doubt JFK Ground as a departure flight, at least 40 min taxi and hundred kgs of fuel :eek:

[Kit d'Rection KG]

Manston, for the delight ATC there take in making everything as farking difficult as they can and never, ever, providing any help whastoever. :=

A 'shyte-hole of greate tedium' in the middle of nowhere, I cannot believe that this 'airport' will be anything but a housing estate in twenty years from now, and it'll be good riddance! ;)

[Kit d'Rection KG]

...perhaps I should add that LHR, AMS, and the various Spanish airports don't give me such a headache; generally speaking, they have their own challenges, but once you've been to each a few times, you get the hang of it... :cool:

[HM79]

Two reasons for not providing slot times off the top of my head.

First and foremost, at alomost all times of the day that we run delays the gates space that you have vacated is needed for an inbound. We try to stage ac is the correct order in a position to shut engines and wait as much of the taxi delay as possible parked and running of the apu.

Second reason from a traffic management standpoint unless every ac would accept a slot time and for the aforementioned reason they won't, it would prove to an impossible task to manage the ground sequence and reconstruct the order from many different places. (ramps, taxi line, off ramp remote parking) The taxi order or departure sequence can mean the differance between 15 minute delays if constructed well and 45 min. delays if constructed poorly.

[bobmij]

How about CDG? Dreadful indifferent biased (towards Air France) ATC.
I'm in fear of losing my life (as some have) every time I go there.
Plus there's usually a strike of some sort lurking.

[Artie Fufkin]

Bobmij, you beat me to it. We play "Give way to the Air France..." Bingo whenever we visit CDG;-

Choose 3 types of Air France operated aircraft each for your Bingo cards. Only problem is the game is over so quickly.

[Jinkster]

Madrid aswell.

No further comments required!

[Gonzo]

From delays on the ground to delays in the air, nightmare taxying round WIP, stand guidance, congestion, disruption due to minor issues that other airports would shrug off, de-icing on stand followed by one hour delay, having to wait till you're fully ready for your 20 minute start-up delay, ground transport, customs, security - SECURITY - Oh my sweet God Security, where do they get off?, hotels, taxi drivers, rip-off BritainAirbus Unplugged, can I ask you to expand on the sentence in bold? How else would you like us to handle delays?

[JB007]

Getting through MAN security with a LGW ID pass!!!!

Delayed the flight by 45 minutes.....

[Cool Wavy NG738]

Man T2, worst by far - security - do your job by all means, but don't be a complete :mad: with it, long walks - generally without travelators working. Dreadful terminal layout, makes one feel like a laboratory rat in some horrible experiment.

[A Comfy Chair]

HM79,

I understand how busy and stressful it must be working as a ground controller in JFK, however I believe a lot of the problem stems from the fact that usually the same instructions are issued to local carriers as the long haul internationals.

If a longhaul carrier has 2 flights a day into JFK, it could have been many months since the flight crew has operated there, and to expect them to know the nuances of the taxiway system is unrealistic.

Added to that, the (sometimes) lack of standard phraseology gets very confusing. I am a native English speaker, however I have found the instructions issued on the ground frequency (including at LAX... not just a JFK thing) very non-standard and confusing.

If you wish to improve the service, I think a much more realistic expectation of peoples ability to understand your instruction at the pace that you give them would help. After 16 hours on the flight deck, your brain doesn't work fast enough to comprehend some of the instructions given at the speed of light.

I understand that it is a busy environment, but perhaps put yourself in the shoes of the guys trying to navigate a very large aircraft (larger than the airport is designed for) around a complex and poorly signposted taxiway system, and just slow things down for them a bit. Speak as fast and as loosely as you like for the local carriers, but use the old KISS principle for those that aren't regulars at the airport.

[hpcock]

No question - Delhi (domestic terminal)

Land on time, leave at least 1-1.5hrs late. Delhi delivery couldn't organise a pi$$ up in a brewery.

[Human Factor]

Airborne: Madrid. As above.

On the ground: any (in-)security post in the UK. :mad:

[AluminumStructure]

You can always think of the all the non-standard phraseology at JFK as a warm-up to the actual clearance. You know like - "I want you to take your plane and go straight ahead and when you see Blah blah airlines, I want to you follow them and then take your plane and turn right on Alpha, and then left on Juliet.....":}:E There's nothing like listening to an annoyed New Yorker giving you the What For. (As long as they're not giving it to me:ok:. Oops..I think my number's just come up...

[ibelieveicanfly]

For me that's this one.I used to fly there many years ago and of course it is not congested but the rwy is a nightmare: you could hardly read your instruments during take-off because the runway is plenty of holes!!one engineer on board plus wheel kit on this special flight.happy not to go there anymore

[undersiege]

Yes, all very fair comments and I will agree that some of those airports really do blow.
But has anybody been to Muscut International Airport recently. Combine delays with the mind numbing Inshalaaa:} ground staff and you will agree with me.
Its even worse during Ramadan.:ugh::ugh::ugh:

[joehunt]

virga67 (http://www.pprune.org/forums/member.php?u=107008)

Disagree with you about AMS controllers etc.

I have seen tower work 3 different R/W's with VFR traffic (2 banner towers) overhead. The controllers in general were, up to 10 years ago, very compertent and slick. Could you amagine that happening at any other large international airport?