Merged: The Election - Aviation Policies

[Shitsu_Tonka]

Might be time to start considering what the aviation policies from the major parties are going to be this coming election.

Former Minister for Incompetence John Anderson has come out in support of QANTAS not being sold today. The ALP hints at this as well.

Perhaps we need to find out the ALP policy sooner than later, because lets face it....

... each day that passes it's looking more and more like time to move out of the 1950's and say Bye Bye Johnny.

http://i11.tinypic.com/2edwhnk.jpg

[Howard Hughes]

to move out of the 1950's and say Bye Bye Johnny
The other mob will have you back to the 30's (ie; the depression), not long after they're elected!:hmm:

At least we can look on the bright side, without a job we won't have to worry about work choices.;)

PS: Work choices won't be withdrawn regardless of who wins the election...:sad:

[Shitsu_Tonka]

Bloody Hell - they still have a cheer squad!

Wow - was the depression in the 1930's - you Libs sure have them booksmarts. I guess that is why you only choose intellectuals to preside over such important portfolios - like.... uhm, Alexander Downer starring in "The Foreign Minister"?

Hey Howard - jusr curious on your prediction - wanna bet? www.centrebet.com.au (http://www.centrebet.com.au)

Bye Bye Prime Minature - thanks for investing the resources boom wisely with your vote grabbing tax cut bribes - and bloating the public service to a size even fatter than Max Moore Wilton - or Max Moore Wiltons new 'mates' pay check.

But what is the policy for Aviation?

More WorkChoices so Howard Hughes kids can work for Jetstar India?

Or will the government be too busy involving themselves in influencing the chioce of the Democratic nomination for US President?

Perhaps you could roll out the old line again - "Who do you trust?"

But you might not like the answer when your Prime Minature has the 'courage' (there is a topical word) to call for a referendum on his fitness for continued duty.

Mission Failed. Goodbye.

[Howard Hughes]

Interesting how you interpreted my post ****su, don't know about a cheer squad, more coming from the "doomed which ever way it goes camp". But if I had to vote (which I don't), I would probably vote Liberal.

There is more to politics than just winning an election and quite frankly I don't know that 'the Dream Team' are up to it, time will tell and I would love to be proven wrong for the sake of all of us...:ok:

As to the original question of Aviation Policy, more of the same I expect regardless of who wins, including everybodys favourite private pilot trying to mess with our airspace!;)

[gaunty]

I've got a bad feeling about this election.

It's really the devil or the deep blue sea.

Either way it will be a mistake to let the Qantas sale go through, this private equity thingy is just another name for the same old asset stripping, dodgy goings on without any scrutiny and massive fee mining going in and out and then selling the the debt laden carcass back to the long suffering shareholders that been going on forever. It gets worse the senior management get to share in the pillage. If that's not insider trading I dont know what it is. Neither political party seems to recognise that the Emperor is as usual stark staring naked.

By the time it all unfolds it wont be able to be unravelled. We seem to have given away any useful bilateral levers, you can be sure what is left will just die in the faces of so called free market forces.


Australians should hang their heads in shame that they not only have let it happen but have actively participated in it.

[jack red]

Don't worry about it, John Howard will win the next election (if only by a reduced margin) and Qantas will be sold. AND if Stuart Clark is not recalled to the World Cup squad, Australia will not get past the semi finals.:mad:

[QF MAINT OUTSOURCED]

i say thank GOD Mr Howard is the PM and not the tresurer otherwise we would have interest rates at 22 % again,good thing his in a position were he can do less fiscal damage

[Shitsu_Tonka]

We know who the Treasurer was when Interest Rates were last at 22% - Howard himself.

Funny they don't talk about that much when espousing their financial 'credentials'.

Lets face it - a glove puppet could have overseen a strong economy over the past few years.

In fact, one did.

Some of that money from the strong world economy could have been wisely used by keeping our airports as national assets - and protecting the sale of regional airports to be chopped up for residential estates.

It could have been used to make tertiary education affordable - one has to think that the Libs fear a well educated electorate, much like JBP.

It could have been used to provide to secure our energy future with a national roll out of solar energy initiatives at the household level, and water recycling at the household level.

It could have been used to retain a strong manufacturing industry within in Australia instead of a de facto off shore factory in China reliant on fossil fuels to ship us containers of cheap consumerables.

It could have built roads and railway lines between our major cities that are not a disgrace.

Nation building opportunites - instead of ideological baby-bonus-bribes that converted in to opium for the masses plasma TV's (from China once again).

Wasted opportunites - yet they ask who do we trust?

Strong leadership standing up to the likes of 'Australia's favourite pilot' as mentioned above? Surely they could have achieved that over 11 years? Apparently not.

There are no fresh ideas - It's time to go. Unfortunately, Labor are going to inherit an economy, and a society, poorly equipped for the challenges of the future.

[Howard Hughes]

There are no fresh ideas - It's time to go. Unfortunately, Labor are going to inherit an economy, and a society, poorly equipped for the challenges of the future.
As said the Libs when they came to power, so the cycle continues...:hmm:

[gaunty]

Howard Hughes not John:p

It does but it much more dangerous this time as there is no "lower class", well there is an "underdog" class, but even they seem to have plasma TVs now.

Nobody wants the gravy train to stop and no one is listening. Back to the future (1970 'twas) when house prices went beyond the fetch of even those on way better than the national average wages.

First home buyers fuel and sustain the real estate market appreciation cycle which is now totally out of control. Mum and Dad self funded super funds looking for cheaper investments have driven them out of that market, they will be the first to go under and become welfare recipients.

Rental vacancy rates are now under an unprecedented 2%

Nobody has any idea how to fix it, we simply dont have the physical or manufacturing resources (all gone to China) and it's going to be very very unpleasant. I'm sure I wouldn't want to be in Govt when it all comes unglued. Watch this space

[Shitsu_Tonka]

HH,

I hope you are right, that the cycle will evolve this time.

For the sake of the 99% of us who are not in the MacBank mates network.

For the sake of those who still want to earn a reasonable salary with some job security in the Aviation sector - rather than see their jobs move off shore - once again solely for the sake of the privelged major shareholder clique who influence the policies of the Liberal Party.

The potential social and societal fallout that awaits us if policy is NOT shifted from personal portfolio building to NATION building, will see a breakdown literally on the streets - similar to that one can see in the poorer neglected areas of the US. This is not a legacy that 11 years of regime Howard can be proud of.

The pendulum must swing back from living for the economy to living in a society - there has been plenty of money to do this over the past 11 years, but it has been squandered.

The economic cycle will not favour the worlds coalmine for much longer - we will not have much to show for it when the cycle swings, as it always does.

At least the execs will be able to dismiss their AWA workers due to 'operational reasons' without paying out fair recompense. Why did we need Individual Contracts again? Why was it not in the election maninfesto? Productivity has dropped in the Australian workforce since Workchoices. The public hate it. Only those business council mates of Howard love it - after all, they are the ones that demanded it.

[gaunty]

****su mate

I gotta feeling I know how Macbank will be remembered by our children and grandkids and who will be the first on the tumbrils.:{

[Torres]

Is this a Prophets of Doom Convention? :}

I have far more faith in the Aussie voter - after all, it will be the voice of the people who decide our next Government. Well .... 15% of the voters anyhow! :hmm:

I will accept the will of the people as being what they consider the best for Australia. :ok:

The Prime Minister has an uphill battle, however the Rudd honeymoon won't last forever. Actually, Rudd is probably the best chance Labour has had for decades. He seems dedicated to his concept of Australia.

My tip, a long way out from Election Day: A Conservative Government with reduced majority; increased Labour representation; reduced minority party presence; eventual loss of Conservative control in the Senate.

WorkChoises will remain (in one form or another) regardless of who wins the Election. The legislation will "mature" into the industrial relations environment Australia needs to remain competitive. It will eventually work to the benefit of both employees and employers.

The biggest risk to the Australian economy at present is any decline in world mineral or energy prices.

I don't agree with the sale of Qantas, however as I am not a Qantas share holder, my opinion doesn't count. The decision will be made by those who do own the company. As the Government sold off the company I am not sure they now have the right to intervene in it's proposed sale. Trust all Australians - they won't leave us without a national carrier, despite the perceived avarice and greed!

With that, I'll don my flack jacket, helmet and duck for cover!!! :} :}

[Shitsu_Tonka]

Thats right Applehere - but we were talking about 22% - and that was Howard. Maybe you aren't old enough to remember?

Keating set up the monetary framework for the economic conditions that Howard has sown. Even some of the Libs admit that.

I wasn't talking about the Prime Minatures physical stature, as you infer, but of his outlook - or should it be called inlook? Where is the regional foreign policy of engagement that Keating started? Binned. Instead we doff our hats to those old colonial dinosaurs... and look what that has done for our worldwide reputation. We have been reduced to an apologist for the even more flawed US Administration.

At least with Rudd as PM, we have someone who understands foreign policy engagement - in the 21st century rather than the times of colonial powers.

Thanks for reminding me about the silly pictures - here is a good one used last time that is just as relevant today:

http://****sutonka.port5.com/nmh.jpg

And a far sighted predcition from Howard Hughes back in the heady days of 2004:


Tip: Kevin Rudd will be the next Labour prime minister of Australia because he is another smart politician!! (you heard it here first)


same bait - same haul

[QF MAINT OUTSOURCED]

This is always what the Labor Party quote as "Interest Rates" under Howard. Let's not let the facts stand in the way of a good rant though! :cool:




just like WMD and the war in Iraq AH

[Shitsu_Tonka]

You old bugger!

Fair enough - I guess you are the Howard Bread & Butter voter, so good luck with that - assuming you intend to vote for him again. I suppose the baby boomers still have a bit more they want their country to do for them.

On the cyclic thing - Canberra needs an enema. Bring back some frank and fearless advice in the public service. Not party hacks.

"I can assure you - the Minister does NOT want to know that!"

Filter the advice long enough and we have a nice position for you at MacBank or the Sydney Airports Corporation.

Brings back reminders of the famous Ministerial Code of Conduct.... oh dear.

The workers paradise under Howard?


From John Spoehr, Associate Professor and Executive Director of the Australian Institute for Social Research, University of Adelaide, writes:

The jury is in on the impact of the new laws. They are undermining the working conditions of thousands of Australian workers, particularly female workers. The Federal Government’s own Office of the Employment Advocate undertook a survey last year of Australian Workplace Agreements (AWAs) lodged under WorkChoices.
The survey revealed that the agreements excluded important protected award conditions – 63% excluded penalty rates, 52% shift loadings, 46% public holiday pay and 40% rest breaks. David Peetz reveals that this understates the problem because the number of AWAs that modified or reduced conditions has not been taken into account, bring the proportion of AWAs that cut overtime to around 82%.

John Howard's battlers look set to desert him.

PAF, I am quite aware of how to spell Labor - I think you will find I was quoting one of your brethren - but thanks for the important tip anyhow.

[Shitsu_Tonka]

'Very Famous', according to that independent source: Jet A OK.

Care to reel off your list of ALP connections?

I don't hate Howard - just what he stands for.

[The The]

Rather than just looking at interest rates, it would be better to look at home loan affordability as this takes into account interest rates, wages and house prices:
http://www.aph.gov.au/Library/pubs/RN/2006-07/07RN08-1.GIF

[Shitsu_Tonka]

The The,

Precisely why Howard won't talk about this when challenged.

One can cherry pick overnight cash rates (before the dollar was floated) versus bank rates vs, retail rates.

The bottom line is can you afford to do what you want to do?

11 years of Liberal regime suggests it is getting a lot harder to - so where is the benefit of this superior economic management of the Costello/Howard dream team?

Had a look at personal debt levels lately?

No wonder fear campaigns are so effective.

[Whiskey Oscar Golf]

Sorry to drift somewhat on the thread people, but I think the real problem lies with the bipartisan system. While we have it both the majors will be formulating policy for the middle ground, the swingers. At either end of the spectrum the voters are pretty much locked in. This means ****su and others won't see too much change. The policies will be slightly different but generally similar.

If anyone thinks there is a measure of control in either parties economic policy they might not get the "free trade" markets Sunfish is so keen on quoting. We are global these days and interest rates are tied to the US and our economy will fall or succeed on world commodity prices. we manufacture high end medical stuff and we are innovative which means we sell it to someone with lower costs of production.

As to Aviation policy we should do the numbers and see how that middle segment will view it. Do they care about qantas being torn apart by the fiscal wrecking crew? Did they care about Commonwealth Bank, Telstra and all the other family silver sold by both parties? Do they care more about safety with good lobbyists touting a range of options? What sort of spin gets put on pilot wages? My belief is Aviation policy will stagnate coz it's not worth the risk and most people wouldn't get it, so it's too easy to baffle with.......

[Shitsu_Tonka]

WOG,

You are correct of course.

But where is the passion? ;)

[gassed budgie]

And then we've got the poor old Labor party. Now I have a lot of time for and like Buckets Beazley, also Lindsay Tanner(he has his moments though), Tony Burke, Craig Emerson and on a good day I even can like Kevin Rudd! But when you dig a bit deeper it's all feathers and no chicken.
Laurie and Martin Ferguson, Jennie George, George Campbell, Simon Crean, Kim Carr, Jennie Macklin, Anthony Albanese. I could go on and on. They've been parrotting the same old claptrap for years if not decades and have now been left well and truly behind. Fact is, most of them couldn't organise a decent crap in a country ****house.
Todays Labor party does not represent and hasn't for decades, mainstream Australia. The parliamentary party is full of ex unionists, party appointees and left leaning academics. That's it. If you decide to dig even deepr and explore just who makes up the Labor caucas, it all gets a bit embarrasing.
Todays labor party seems to cater for those who would like to think that they are bit (or a long way) above what goes for normal Australian society. They tend to look down their collective noses at those who aspire for something better in life or at those who would prefer to be at the MCG rather than viewing some incomprehensible painting by the late Brett Whitely. Peter Garret shot himself in the foot recently by expousing exactly that.
But let's not forget that they are also the party that were trying to foist Mark Latham upon us. They even manged to keep a straight face while they were trying to pull that one off. John Faulkner stated recently that the party knew it was taking a risk with Latham.
Just think about that for a second and what an appalling admission that is.
They knew Latham was unhinged and yet they were willing to install Latham as PM! They were so desperate to get their bums on the seats on the other side of the chamber that they were prepared to risk the countries reputation and wellbeing with someone that was not equipped the handle the job in a balanced and considered manner.
What shape would the country now be in if Latham was PM ?
Could I really vote for a political party that doesn't represent mainstream Australia but only the cultural elites, for a party that was prepared to sell it's soul ? No. And nor will the majority of voters.
If one was to sit down and analyse honestly which party should be elected to form a government, on its present form the Labor party wouldn't and couldn't be it.
John Howard overall, has done a good job in the top political office in the country and will be elected for his fifth term as PM when the election is called sometime after Sept 2007 when the APEC meeting is due to be held in Sydney.
The Labor party is getting closer, but they still haven't got it figured.


That was posted by myself some time ago. Nothing much has changed.

[Shitsu_Tonka]

Oh cmon Budgie - one could spray out a drop down list of the Lib/Nat 'stars' and say a lot of the same.

What has changed?

According to the polls, quite a lot.

[Whiskey Oscar Golf]

Mr. Tonka my passion left about 1974 with the strong smell of whiskey in Government House.

Mr Budgie I'll bite. What has changed since you wrote your last piece of vitriol is that your boy's have installed yet another piece of legislation that continues to widen the gap between rich and poor. It's called workchoices and will/has increased union membership and means you will now work more for less. You may get less than another person doing the same job simply because you were hired later. Watch our industry in the next couple of years. This will win the ALP the next Federal Election. The very same ALP that is in power in ALL state governments.

As to the ALP being a bunch of left leaning academics that are out of touch with modern Australians, it takes more than a Wallaby jumper on your morning walk to represent Aussies. Don't believe the hype, very nice to see LJH at the cricket, makes you feel close doesn't it Mr. Budgie? The ALP would have about the same number of funky lobbyists as the Libs. The difference may very well be you can see them, Brethren anyone? How about a war? Children overboard? GST? All lobbyists.

I am a member of the ALP, not a happy one but a member nonetheless. I hate modern art with a passion ( there you go Mr. Tonka ). I love my cricket and cry when I watch the football. I hope the Melbourne Club treats you well because if you think the Liberals represent you then that's where you're eating.

Yeah I know I'll wear the flak jacket and hope for the best.

[Shitsu_Tonka]

miniature - "being of a small scale"

Your Point? Or is this the famous resorting to spelling mistakes argument once again?

[gassed budgie]

As to Aviation policy we should do the numbers and see how that middle segment will view it. Do they care about qantas being torn apart by the fiscal wrecking crew? Did they care about Commonwealth Bank, Telstra and all the other family silver sold by both parties? Do they care more about safety with good lobbyists touting a range of options? What sort of spin gets put on pilot wages? My belief is Aviation policy will stagnate coz it's not worth the risk and most people wouldn't get it, so it's too easy to baffle with.......


Couldn't agree more.

Oh cmon Budgie - one could spray out a drop down list of the Lib/Nat 'stars' and say a lot of the same.

Of course, you're correct there ST. I have to look no further than my local Federal member (Nats) to observe how dim the light on the hill really can be. Trouble is when you look across the chamber to the opposition benches, it all but goes out!

According to the polls, quite a lot.

A new opposition leader can always expect a bounce in the polls. It happens every time. However when people are standing in the polling booth about to cast their vote, they'll quickly come to the conclusion that there is no compelling reason to change the government.

It's called workchoices and will/has increased union membership and means you will now work more for less. You may get less than another person doing the same job simply because you were hired later. Watch our industry in the next couple of years. This will win the ALP the next Federal Election.

For the vast majority of the voting populace, workchoices is not and will not be an issue. At this point in time not enough people have been effected by the legislation to make any siginificant change in the overall voting pattern. It will not win the Labor party the next election.

The very same ALP that is in power in ALL state governments.

NSW C-, SA B-, WA C, QLD B-, WA B-, TAS B-, ACT F-, NT C- and last but not least my home state of VIC F-. Bracks you useless pile of crap. Report card overall, not to bad but could try harder. The team is let down by those pinkos up in the ACT and by the gutless, lily livered Bracks.


As to the ALP being a bunch of left leaning academics that are out of touch with modern Australians, it takes more than a Wallaby jumper on your morning walk to represent Aussies. Don't believe the hype, very nice to see LJH at the cricket, makes you feel close doesn't it Mr. Budgie? The ALP would have about the same number of funky lobbyists as the Libs. The difference may very well be you can see them, Brethren anyone? How about a war? Children overboard? GST? All lobbyists.



Tend to agree with you WOG. Unfortunately virtually all of the members that make up the parliamentry Labor party consist of ex union officials, left wing leaning acedemics and labor party hacks. Not a particularly wide cross section of Australian society is it?
And who's the Labor party's new shining light? Bill Shorten. Yet another ex union official.

I am a member of the ALP

Good for you WOG. It's a shame that more members of the public don't bother to take an interest in the political process. Someone has to at least try and keep the bastards honest.
I have to ask though. Are you the only fully paid up member of the ALP ?

[Bendo]

Ahh well yes.

Who was it who pointed out last election that it's the Australian Democrats who actually have an aviation policy that supports and encourages General Aviation?

:D

In fact as I see it they are the only party that has a policy that consists of more than "keep doing what we're doing now".

And yes... I am a member of the AD's and it is purely for the above reasons.

No, I don't expect the AD's to be able to field a government but geez life was better back when they could act as a check on the government's power, wasn't it? :ugh:

[Explicitus]

When I saw the name of this thread, I thought it would be interesting to read what aviators have to say about the aviation policies of the protaganists in the upcoming federal election.
I haven't been able to glean much from the thread so far.
Are people familiar with the aviation policies of Australian political parties able to post them here? I for one would be interested in being able to read a quick blurb describing the future of Australian aviation in the eyes of the Australian political parties.

[Whiskey Oscar Golf]

Explictus, I think if you looked hard you may find a sliver of Aviation policy in either major parties arsenal. They both tend to steer clear of it for the reasons pointed out in my earlier posts. It is too complex to sell and very risky in terms of mistakes. Both parties would rather let it evolve on an industry level. They will let "experts" guide policy calls then sack them if it all goes pear shaped. Ministers will tend to stand up when it's all going well and hide and blame for the opposite. As to the backroom mob they won't care too much unless significant lobbyists put some pressure down.


The ALP haven't put down any serious policy on the large issues like qantas sale and any ATC reform yet. The qantas sale policy might get merged into a workchoices example depending on the way it goes. Good opportunity for certain groups to take advantage of the fear campaign the ALP will run on the IR stuff. About the only time they'll get sympathy from the middle ground. Will be countered with cheap airfares, competition and jobs arguments.


ATC reform will be on minister errors and possibly new tech. NAS and NAS2 are to evil and devisive to get either major looking at them, also costly. No restructures planned, way too dangerous to make big changes. GA is and always has been the forgotten child in politics, again let the industry take care of itself and only address the stuff ups.


Best bet would be Mr. Bendo's mob the Democrats, they are low risk, can get a bipartisan ticket and if it goes wrong neither biggie gets named. If it goes well we all look good.

Oh and Mr. budgie I am the only paid up ALP member coz it helps when I'm stacking branches.

[Shitsu_Tonka]

Well, one could always review the only policy that counts, seeing as though we only have one federal government at a time - this is the coalition policy from the last erection:

http://www.liberal.org.au/2004_policy/ACF4E36.pdf

How is it going so far?


PART 3 AVIATION
Australia's airlines carry millions of passengers a year and are a
vital link between our country and the rest of the world. A re-elected
Coalition Government will continue to pursue aviation reform, and
will press on with ensuring our aviation laws are simple,
straightforward and internationally harmonised.
(i) International Aviation
The Coalition is firmly committed to the liberalisation of our skies
where it is in the national interest. Our approach will ensure that
Australia’s airlines grow and operate profitably, while at the same
time maximising the opportunities for international airlines to serve
Australia and help our tourism industry.
We will continue to engage other governments to negotiate more
liberalised aviation agreements, which will benefit Australia and
Australian airlines. The issue of trans-Pacific rights and other
beyond rights from Australia will be revisited once there is greater
stability in the global aviation environment.
One of our priorities will be to remove the barriers that Australian
international airlines face when trying to access other markets. To
this end, we will continue negotiating with the European Union to
establish a full open skies agreement with Europe.
A re-elected Coalition Government will continue to pursue mutual
recognition arrangements (MRAs) with New Zealand, because they
will significantly reduce the administrative burden on airlines. Under
the MRAs ,airlines will no longer be required to hold duplicate
certification issued by both countries – a major step forward in the
trans-Tasman aviation market.
In line with our 2001 election commitment, we will continue to offer
our bilateral aviation partners unrestricted access to Australia’s
regional international gateways.
Building Our National Transport Future 15
(ii) Domestic Aviation
The Coalition Government has successfully removed the barriers to
entry for new domestic airlines - a policy that has seen the
establishment of Virgin Blue as a major local carrier. More
Australians than ever before are flying and airline load factors are at
historic highs. A re-elected Coalition Government will work to
ensure that this growth in aviation continues apace.
A Coalition Government will maintain our commitment to awarding a
minimum of 10 percent of government travel on the Canberra-
Sydney route to smaller airlines. We will rigorously apply best fare
of the day principles when awarding government travel.
These measures are already assisting smaller airlines and will have
a growing effect in the months to come.
(iii) Regional Aviation
A re-elected Coalition Government will spend $7 million in 2004-05
to continue the location specific pricing subsidy, which enables
Airservices Australia to provide affordable air traffic control services
at 14 regional and general aviation airports.
A Coalition Government will also ensure that longer-term pricing
decisions by Airservices maintain our commitment to provide
affordable aviation services at smaller general aviation and regional
airports.
We will spend $7.7 million over the next four years to maintain air
services to isolated and remote communities under the Remote Air
Services Subsidy Scheme (RASS). The RASS operators carry
passengers, educational materials, medicines, fresh food and other
urgent supplies.
(iv) Aviation Regulation
The Coalition is committed to maintaining Australia’s high aviation
safety standards. Our vision is to have a world leading safety
regulator, the Civil Aviation Safety Authority (CASA), that is both
firm and fair. We want it to meet its safety obligations but also to
permit development and growth in Australian aviation.
Building Our National Transport Future 16
We have overhauled the Civil Aviation Safety Authority’s (CASA)
governance arrangements and enforcement powers to deliver
greater procedural fairness for aviation industry participants and a
more flexible suite of enforcement powers for CASA which will
improve aviation safety. For example, a demerit points scheme for
more minor breaches of the regulations has been introduced and is
being used with great effectiveness by CASA.
We will provide CASA with $29.2 million of additional funding over
four years ($9.7 million in 2004-05), to enhance further its ability to
oversee aviation safety.
CASA will continue to reform the sometimes complex and unwieldy
system of aviation regulations in a way that will achieve our aim of
safety through clarity. Where new regulations have attracted
criticism from the industry, a Coalition Government will ensure that
those criticisms are heard and that new regulations only become
law when they deliver a world’s best practice outcome that is a
demonstrable improvement over what we have today.
A Coalition Government will not introduce regulations that stifle
growth in aviation for no safety benefit.
Building on our reform of CASA, a re-elected Coalition Government
will immediately carry out a review of the governance, structure and
organisational performance of Airservices Australia.
Airservices is a world leader in air traffic management, but the
Coalition believes that reforms can be introduced that will improve
the responsiveness of the organisation to the needs of industry and
the challenges facing aviation.
A Coalition Government will remove all regulatory functions from
Airservices so it can concentrate on its primary role: to provide state
of the art air traffic services that maintain and improve our first class
standards of aviation safety. The regulatory responsibility for
airspace regulation will be vested in a separate Airspace
Directorate.
These initiatives will be carried out before Airservices is made a
Government Business Enterprise.
Building Our National Transport Future 17
The Coalition remains committed to our longer-term goal of
introducing greater competition in the services currently provided by
Airservices, such as aviation rescue and fire fighting. This will
provide greater efficiencies and create the necessary conditions for
corporatising the organisation.
A Coalition Government will continue to modernise Australia’s
airspace system through the continued staged implementation of
the National Airspace System (NAS).
The National Airspace System has already been found by the Civil
Aviation Safety Authority to be safer that the system we have today.
Furthermore, it will deliver improved air traffic services and greater
flexibility for instrument flight rules aircraft, especially in regional
Australia, greater freedom of movement for visual flight rule flights,
and simpler, standardised procedures that will make flying easier.
It will also encourage greater participation in the aviation industry,
creating jobs in the aviation industry and in regional communities
that depend on it.
(v) Aviation Infrastructure
A re-elected Coalition Government will not build a second Sydney
Airport. Sydney (Kingsford-Smith) Airport will be able to cope with
Sydney’s air traffic needs for the foreseeable future.
We will not support an upgrade of Bankstown Airport to
accommodate high frequency, high capacity jet operations for the
same reason.
A Coalition Government will retain full regulatory control of aircraft
noise management. Sydney Airport will continue to be subject to the
80 aircraft movements per hour cap, the curfew from 11pm to 6am
and the noise sharing policy implemented through the Long Term
Operating Plan (LTOP).
We will continue to guarantee regional airline access to Sydney
Airport.

[Shitsu_Tonka]

Debt?

You seriously want to brag about the level of debt Australia has after 11 years of Coalition governance?

http://www.ibisworld.com.au/newsletter/issues/au/05dec/img1.gif


Between 1996, when Howard first came into power and the end of 2003, household debt has skyrocketed from 85% of disposable income to 140%. Prior to the election, Treasury announced that “consumption growth has run ahead of income growth…this has seen households borrow against their increased wealth”. The “wealth” is actually the increased debt taken on by homebuyers and investors wanting to take advantage of negative gearing. The treasury report was surprisingly honest about this development: “Rising household debt, particularly a rising proportion of highly geared households, increased the vulnerability of the economy to shocks that affect wealth or incomes.”

Australian households are now borrowing more than our financial corporations are borrowing from the rest of the world. In 2003/2004, households borrowed $47 billion while financial corporations borrowed $38 billion. Homes have become ATMs with home equity withdrawals running at 7% of disposable income. We are borrowing against a pre-existing debt to buy a house of cards that can be blown away with a hike in interest rates, increased unemployment, or a pinprick in the housing bubble.


There is not much incentive to save when the government taxes the interest on savings either.

[Shitsu_Tonka]

Aha - discredit the source, despite the validity of the information. Rule 1 in the Neo-Con Handbook to winning arguments (in your own mind), foreword by Piers Ackerman, Introduction by Andrew Bolt and Gerard Henderson.

Lets put aside your rambling tangent off in to why the Iraq war is a good thing for all the world, and get back to the issue.

So, because you have labelled someone a left wing nut job, according to your big boys annual of 'staying the course', are you saying that the following is not true?:

Between 1996, when Howard first came into power and the end of 2003, household debt has skyrocketed from 85% of disposable income to 140%.

I could also have taken that same line from where the graph came from - IBIS (Source:AMP Australia) - are they a bunch of left wing bleeding heart pinkos as well?

I could just as readily grabbed the same data from ANZ, Access Economics ir even Treasury.

What names do you have for them?

I know the difference between Government and Private Debt - But who do you think funds the government debt? And whose policy determines private debt? Why is your beloved treasurer spruiking on this weekend about the worries of private equity (read debt) companies, when Australia is already mortagaged to the eyeballs? (in fact 30% above it's eyeballs if you believe the raving leftie economists within our major financial institutions according to PAF of the sheltered workshop)

But I know... if you are not with us you are against us.

http://tinypic.com/2edwhnk.jpg

[Creampuff]

PAF

Can you run past me again the connection between the implications of Hicks’ actions on one hand, and the implications of Australia’s household debt levels on the other?:confused:

[Shitsu_Tonka]

PAF,

Heavens man - you just recited the whole Coalition strategy on winning the next election - incoherent ranting on fear and all things unrelated to the issue.

Now about that aviation policy....

[Shitsu_Tonka]

The Coalition on the other hand gave us the best they had to carefully manage the interests of Aviation in Australia:

http://www.abc.net.au/reslib/200608/r98265_298854.jpg

[Whiskey Oscar Golf]

Mr. Frozo, can you read my first post on this topic. You can reel off your idealogue rhetoric as much as you like but it doesn't change the fact that there isn't much difference between the majors. You can spruik the economic management of the Liberals from here to eternity but it has more to do with the global economy than any parties policy.

The style of thinking you are displaying plays right into their hands, they will always attempt to create difference when there isn't any. One of the key points in Rudds strategy will be to capture the middle. He has the gift of appearing stable and conservative. He will half commit to policy and is a big time media hound. These traits will serve him well in his battle with LJH. They also are what the Middle Swinging Voter is after.

Ahh aviation policy, thankyou Mr. Tonka for displaying the Liberal policy from the previous election. Can someone show how this policy has been Implemented? If it hasn't it should be easy next election, just cut and paste. I did a quick search at the ALP and discovered there isn't any formal poliicy just a whole heap of ministerial bagging about security at regional and domestic airports. Might have to give my people a call, stay tuned race fans.

[Duff Man]

At the risk of being a thread killer, we may have to wait until the ALP get around to putting a formal policy section on their site (http://www.alp.org.au/policy/index.php).
Following the election of new Labor Leader Kevin Rudd, the ALP Policy page is being updated
But I will say that Howard is facing a losable election. Spent part of my week watching Rudd's efforts in Question Time against Howard (on the Iraq/Obama issue): Rudd was cool, level-headed, and reeled Howard in like a seasoned angler.
The ALP offensive is working...
(1) Fix its leadership
(2) Establish IR supremacy
(3) Maintain environmental high(er) ground
Who knows what else is coming? Perhaps we won't see their policy section until much closer to the election.
For the record, I am not a member of any political party. I am a member of ACF and Amnesty. Hicks may be guilty, but give him a chance to be fairly tried for fuxsake!

[BelfastChild]

Hey ****su, perhaps you'd prefer one of these bright sparks to be in charge...

http://www.alp.org.au/images/people/fergusonm.jpghttp://www.alp.org.au/images/people/creans.jpghttp://www.alp.org.au/images/people/danbym.jpghttp://www.alp.org.au/images/people/gillardj.jpg

http://www.alp.org.au/images/people/albanesea.jpghttp://www.alp.org.au/images/people/pricer.jpghttp://www.alp.org.au/images/people/irwinj.jpghttp://www.alp.org.au/images/people/georganass.jpg

Or God help us....:eek:

http://www.mediavr.com/latham.jpg

[gassed budgie]

All got heads like buckets of smashed crabs! LMAO, BC.

[VH-Cheer Up]

On the cyclic thing - Canberra needs an enema. Bring back some frank and fearless advice in the public service. Not party hacks.
You are joking. Aren't you?

The PS mandarins who really run things aren't elected. They get massaged upward through the ranks in a kind of bureaucratic peristalsis (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peristalsis).

The whole problem with government is that it's political. Tell me one person who ever watches Question Time who would willingly admit they voted for any of the participants? The local high school year 12 debating society would put them all to shame.

Pathetic, the lot of them.

Come November, your choice is Tweedledum, or Tweedledumber. Take your pick.

[Higs]

I think that the enviroment will be a signifant issue for the first time. Not that i am a tree hugger but lets face it with all the tell tale signs out there, this is becoming something that we should prioritise.

As you can see both parties have positioned very prominent people in this portfolio. The water issue effecting the whole country is a good example. It will be wise for the labor party to use this issue, rather than the "standard battle grounds":ok:

[runway16]

With the election just around the corner I cannot recall any discussion regarding aviation policies from either of the two major parties.

Has anyone heard what Liberal or Labour are promising post election ?

[Marauder]

I changed my vote 18 years ago.:sad::sad::sad::sad::sad:

[Like This - Do That]

runway16 I haven't checked for a couple of weeks, but when I did check earlier there were NO policies for aviation, either party.

I think we can assume that the Greens' policies for aviation would be based upon grounding every aircraft due to the outrageous and unsustainable levelss of CO2 emissions...... fruitcakes:yuk::oh::ugh:

[Duff Man]

ALP Roads, Transport & Aviation policies (http://www.alp.org.au/policy/index.php#roads_transport_&_aviation) (as of this post, no aviation policies announced)

Liberal unsorted policies (http://www.liberal.org.au/about/ourpoliciesplans.php) (as of this post, no aviation policies announced except this one (http://www.liberal.org.au/about/documents/SydneyTransport.pdf) obliquely referring to reduction in road freight congestion around YSSY)

The Greens transport policy (http://greens.org.au/election/policy.php?policy=51) Aviation is addressed in points 21, 27, 29, 31, and 42

like this do that - how about you click above and inform yourself before making a fool of yourself :=

[Like This - Do That]

...when I did check earlier there were NO policies for aviation, either party.

ALP Roads, Transport & Aviation policies (as of this post, no aviation policies announced)

Liberal unsorted policies (as of this post, no aviation policies announced except this one obliquely referring to reduction in road freight congestion around YSSY)

No argument there.

OK I didn't check the Greens' website, more fool me. It was posted in jest - perhaps I should have added the 'aren't I a nutcase?' smiley ......:}

Still won't be voting for the fruitcakes.

[The PM]

Mark Vaile just announced the Coalitions aviation policy in his National Press Club Address.Big $$$ at all levels, I'm typing as it is announced.The biggie, a Regional Airline Pilots grant/scolarship/loan, 25% of costs paid for, you commit to 2 years working for a regional.No other details of how it works. Also made mention of attracting young people to aviation through a joint program with aero clubs.No mention of improving T and Cs however.......more to come

[The PM]

Predictably, the journos didn't ask a single question of the only new policy he announced during his speech.Off to the Coalitions website I go!

[U.K. SUBS.]

Mr Vaile also mentioned the shortage of engineers, the contribution they make to the safety record Australia has. Nothing on the attrition rate the industry is experiencing, the startling increase in the average age of a Lame. Oh well.....let's see what Mr Ferguson has to offer the aviation community.:ugh:

[The PM]

Indeed he did, my apologies to all the engineers! Nothing on the Libs or Nats websites as yet.

[SM4 Pirate]

http://www.nationals.org.au/news/default.asp?action=article&ID=4318

Australian Aviation - The Coalition Aiming Even Higher
Wednesday, 14 November 2007

The Deputy Prime Minister and Minister for Transport and Regional Services, Mark Vaile, today announced that a re-elected Coalition Government will establish an Australian Aviation Technical College, a regional airline pilot scholarship scheme and a new cadet pilot programme to provide a jobs pathway for young Australians into the exciting aviation sector.

Mr Vaile said the Coalition will also provide funding to assist the aviation industry to investigate further ways to reduce greenhouse gas emissions.

“As an island nation Australia is heavily reliant on air transport for the movement of passengers and trade, while regional Australia depends on aviation for so much including medical needs, commerce and social links,” Mr Vaile said.

“As a result of the Coalition’s policies and initiatives over many years, the Australian aviation industry is experiencing strong growth, record passenger numbers and unprecedented
development in airport infrastructure.”

Industry growth is creating great demand for skilled and qualified aviation professionals, from pilots to aircraft maintenance engineers and air traffic controllers.

“A re-elected Coalition Government will establish a Regional Airline Pilot Scholarship Scheme to encourage pilots to work in regional airlines across Australia,” Mr Vaile announced.

Under the Scheme, a Coalition Government will invest $9 million to reimburse up to 25 per cent of the training costs for pilots if they remain with a nominated regional airline continuously for a period of two years.

“While there is significant interest in aviation, many people, particularly school students, are unsure about how to pursue a career in the industry,” Mr Vaile said.

“A re-elected Coalition Government will also encourage high school students to pursue a career in aviation by investing $250,000 in a programme run in partnership with Royal Australian Aero Clubs.

“The funding will subsidise a cadet pilot certificate course to be run by interested local Aero Clubs.”

Mr Vaile also announced that a re-elected Coalition Government will help more Australian students to pursue their dream career in aviation by establishing an Australian Aviation Technical College.

“The new Australian Aviation Technical College, to be established in close proximity to Perth Airport,
will complement the already committed Australian Technical College campus in Nowra, which will have a focus on aviation trade training,” Mr Vaile said.

“These two campuses will be two of the 30 new stand-alone Australian Technical Colleges announced by the Prime Minister on 29 October 2007.

“The College at Perth Airport will enable up to 200 year 11 and 12 students each year to undertake studies towards year 12 qualifications, while gaining one third of their apprenticeship in an aviation field, including avionics and aircraft maintenance.”

Mr Vaile said the Coalition recognised that, while aviation as a whole contributed only an estimated two percent of global carbon emissions, government needed to work in partnership with industry to address emissions in a way that didn’t threaten jobs.

“The Coalition has introduced a range of measures to reduce aviation greenhouse emissions including: improving fuel efficiency through more flexible flight tracks; improving aircraft air traffic control sequencing; more efficient runway use; and continuous descent approaches,” Mr Vaile said.

“Our commonsense, balanced approach to climate change allows the aviation industry to go for growth.”

Mr Vaile also announced that a re-elected Coalition Government will provide $500,000 to help the aviation industry plan better infrastructure and obtain access to state-of-the-art technology to reduce its greenhouse gas emissions.

“The Coalition also remains strongly committed to not investigate sites for, or build, a second Sydney airport and to maintaining the current Sydney Airport curfew and regional airline access.

“And we will continue to open up new opportunities for Australian aviation industries by encouraging more international airlines into Australia’s regional international airports, working to conclude an open-skies agreement with the United States, and continuing negotiations on an open skies agreement with the European Union.”

Contact: Tanya Cleary 02 62777680 or 0418 615 280

[SIUYA]

Geez, thanks Mr Vaile.

You really have to hand it to the Coalition, don't you? Last minute, knee-jerk reaction that's a tad too late to catch up with the reality of what the industry is facing................a SHORTAGE of qualified people!

Keerist, blind Freddy saw this shortage emerging bloody ages ago! Pity the Minister didn't. := But then again, I don't think he was watching too closely to have noticed anything happening at all.

I have to ask why set up the college in close proximity to Perth airport? Perth's already reaping the economic benefits of the resources boom. The bush isn't experiencing similar boom conditions! Particularly, the inland areas in eastern Australia aren't.

Why couldn't the Coalition set up the proposed college in a country city location? It would be of much greater benefit to a whole lot more people doing it that way I reckon.

Dumbar5es :mad: