Taildragger conversion training recommendations

[rusty sparrow]

I'm planning to get a share in a cheap taildragger in the next few months - I've got a few hundred takeoffs and landings in gliders (I'm assuming this helps - comments?) and three hours in an Auster at Cranfield some years ago.

I'm in the Hemel Hempstead/St Albans area - anyone got any recommendations on the best place to do the conversion?

[Flyin'Dutch']

Well the gliding time will stand you in good stead.

The advantage of having flown the Auster is that everything you will fly since then will seem both better and easier to fly.

They're 'orrible.

:}

[rusty sparrow]

The problem I had with it was that (I'm 6' 2") is that my head was up in the wing root - visibility not so good.

How do they compare with Jodels and similar in handling?

[looptheloop]

How about Sibson- take your pick from a Cub, Pitts or a Tigermoth- something to suit everyone!

[rusty sparrow]

H'mm

Sibson:

PIPER CUB PA 18-95 (http://www.nsof.co.uk/aircraft_hire/areoplane_hire_peterborough.asp#rates)

£118.00 Solo
£133.00 Dual
£113.00 Weekday Solo

Panshanger

It's "Cost: £119 per hour dual includes: hire of aeroplane, instruction charges, VAT, landing fees and pre & post-flight briefings." for their Tailwheel Conversion & Farmstrip Course

But I've seen some bad comment on Panshanger on pprune - also I met the CFI there few months ago and wasn't immediately impressed.

[javelin]

Join the PFA, find a coach with a taildragger, the cheapest way I know :ok:

[Staggering]

Try Halton Aeroplane Club, brand new Citabria arriving soon.

[Flyin'Dutch']

How do they compare with Jodels and similar in handling?

They don't.

Jodels are lovely well balanced efficient machines which you will love to fly.

Halton is a good suggestion.

[rusty sparrow]

Halton sounds like a possible option - I'd love to fly a Citabria. But from their website, I'd need service links. Don't have those. I'll give 'em a call and find out more.

[Them thar hills]

Rusty
Sounds like you're going Jodelling, if I didn't know.
At 6'2" you'll be doing well to get in a Jodel, but I can't fault your taste in aircraft ! If its one of the smaller Jodels 117/120 you may be a bit cramped depending on whats been added to the basic panel. Usually radios get mounted below the panel, and knee room can be restricted. 1050's have seat adjustment so that may suit you better.
If you're getting back into flying, haven't you flown a tailwheeler before ?

tth

[gaxan]

Try Henlow Flying club . Got a Tiger there .

[rusty sparrow]

Jodelling
TTH

My choice is based on what's cheap and fun to fly, and will improve my flying skills. I've heard a lot about the Jodel and seen a few group shares come up. Thanks for the info re leg room in 'em.

Yes, I have flown a taildragger before - an Auster. Nearly finished the conversion then the company I worked for folded and I had to shelve flying.:(

RS

[L18C]

If you are in the St Albans area, I would recommend Panshanger. I did the tailwheel conversion course in their Super Cub several years ago with their CFI and it gave me the skills and confidence to start operating a Super Cub out of a nearby farm strip. Their CFI is a very good tailwheel pilot.

[QDMQDMQDM]

The advantage of having flown the Auster is that everything you will fly since then will seem both better and easier to fly.

They're 'orrible.

So you're not planning on returning to Eggesford, then? I could be persuaded not to divulge your views on Austers for a fee.

[rusty sparrow]

Thanks L18 - if the wx is OK I'll go over at the weekend and take a look

[mothflyer]

Hi, good assortment of choices for you already.

I can personally vouch for the Tiger Club down there in Kent (Lashenden). I converted with them onto the Jodel (D150). Very tidy machine and a dream to fly, not the easiest tailwheel to fly but will teach you respect for the tailwheel and once you've got the hang of it I'm sure you wont go back to nose wheels:ok:. Its a great little club and of course there's the Tiger Moths and the little Turbulent you can also learn to fly after some tailwheel hours, all for SFH! Great fun all round though the Tiger is a bit chilly this time of year.

Give them a call on 01622 891017.

:)

[formationfoto]

Why dont you get the share and then convert / do your differences training on the aircraft you get the share in? You should be able to find an instructor to convert you and sign you off. Quite a few people have gone through the Class Rating Instructor Course which enables them to do just that.

[IRRenewal]

Quite a few people have gone through the Class Rating Instructor Course which enables them to do just that.
As indeed you did today. Congrats.

Hope you did enjoy that celebratory half pint I saw on the bar.

[will5023]

Hi rusty sparrow, I'm 6ft2" and fitted comfortabley into a Jodel D120, I'm also a CRI and PFA Coach with over 1500hrs tailwheel, my advice for what it's worth is buy a taildragger which suits you in size,appeal,comfort and wallet and get a conversion done on that machine, whatever you do, wether it is via a school, club or the PFA coaching scheme make sure you get the training !

Cheers Will.

[rusty sparrow]

Hi formationfoto

I assume that the first thing I need to do is get the tailwheel conversion in a dual acft and then a differences briefing for the single seater?

How do I find a Class Rated Instructor?

Since I was a kid, I've always wanted to fly a Tiger or Piper Cub - so will probably do the initial conversion on one.

[rusty sparrow]

Hi Will

Good to know that - I did wonder if there might be a problem there. If you're the same size as me and can the Jodel comfortably, then that sounds a good bet.

I think I'll take a trip to White Waltham at the weekend - there was a share in a Jodel going there.

[rusty sparrow]

I've known of the Tiger Club since starting gliding a couple of decades ago - just too far away to travel there. But they would be my first choice because of their enthusiasm, history and stories.

[BroomstickPilot]

Hi rusty sparrow,

Whoever you go to, don't be satisfied unless and until you have been taught to do 'wheeler' (aka 'roller') cross wind landings.

Most places these days only teach the two point method, where you stall the aircraft on, putting down your into wind main wheel and tailwheel first. (I believe there are some places around that don't teach cross wind landings at all). The two point method is OK for light to moderate cross winds, but not good enough for a strong cross wind.

With the 'roller' you fly the aircraft onto the ground still with some flying speed. You then hold the aircraft straight and level on the runway as she loses speed. You end up at the far end of the runway whith full into wind aileron and full away from wind rudder.

If you want to look it up, you will find this subject in 'The Compleat Taildragger Pilot' by H. S. Plourde.

Broomstick.

[rusty sparrow]

Broomstick

Thanks for that bit of advice - I'd feel cheated if I didn't get good instruction on crosswind landing.

I had a passenger flight at Sywell in a Tiger Moth back in August of this year (the prompt for me to go back to flying) - the pilot had a bit of a crosswind and flew it onto the ground as you describe.

The Compleat Taildragger Pilot looks well worth getting.

Cheers

Brian

[will5023]

Hi R.S, think from memory the jodel group used to be a D120 at W.W(G-BICR ?) tall lads can fit into them because there is no front tank which would restricts your legs. The D120 has a single tank at the rear giving 3-5hrs depending on model. PM me if you need any advice, purchasing or training.

Will.

[formationfoto]

Rusty
Didnt spot that you intended to purchase a single seater. I would suggest trying to find a suitable, similar, two seater and do your Diff training on that then the move over to the similar type single seater will be an easy transition. If you are looking at a Jodel D9 single or similar doing the diff training in a Supercub is only half the job.

As for finding CRIs just visit any flying club and hold up a piece of paper with the following on:

CRI?

you will probably find two or three people come running towards you!.

Seriously there are quite a few of us around now and I see someone else has already volunteered. We exist to assist in just this way and ask the question here you are bound to find someone near you.

Ian

[formationfoto]

Rusty

Yes you MUST get X wind landing instruction in a taildragger BUT the correct technique will depend on the pilot and the aircraft as well as the extent of gusts.

In relatively stable cross wind there is an argument for the three pointer. You are at minimum flying speed and minimum forward speed (not stalling it on by the way - typically you are just below critical AoA though not true in ALL cases). The argument is that you are then in contact with the ground with a cross wind for the minimum amount of time and at the slowest speed (allowing you to stop quickly).

The three pointer, by definition, requires a higher speed. You are still going to have to pass through the lowest speed condition and the wheels are in contact with the surface for a longer period of cross airflow.

In gusty conditions the wheeler means you have a lower AoA and are less likely to find yourself taking off again when a gust arrives. I would then use the wheeler in X wind only when it is also gusty.

BUT this is all type dependent. There are some aircraft which because of rudder effectiveness (lack of) with tailwheel down, and due to angle of incidence of the wing at rest, plus tailplane / elevator effectiveness, favour wheeling on.

A good instructor will let you get a feel for the aircraft you are going to fly in a number of different configurations so that you get an understanding of the limitations.