Goodbye Macs. Sigh.......

[Binoculars]

Not yet two years old, my flirtation with Macs is over. I've enjoyed the experience, never a thought about anti-virus, probably two crashes in the whole time. All those who argue that Macs are not overpriced given the integrated software they arrive with are right; there are fabulous suites included, and to option up a PC to similar specs would theoretically cost even more.

But.

I've already had a quiet whinge on this forum about the attitude to service by Apple: four months old? you have a problem and you expect free phone service? You jest of course!

So my music playback on iTunes starts distorting, as though there are interruptions on the internet connection. Not just streaming, but CD music as well. Please fix, I go on holiday, I back in two weeks. Sounds strange, haven't heard of this one, we fix.

Arrive back, presented with a bill for $55. Que? $55, I ask suspiciously, knowing that is the going price for walking through the door? That's all, says woman.

Err, could I see the service docket? Certainly.

Test Imac for sound problem.

Tried running iMac on external HDD; problem persisted. (err, I already did that.)


Tried with known working RAM. (???)

Tried on archive install but still didn't fix the problem.

Result: Logic board is faulty causing sound distortion; cost to replace is: $1029: Cost to fit: $132. Total cost for a poorly designed or faulty part (ok, I put that bit in): $1161.

Me: So I gather it's not actually fixed?

Woman: Hang on and I'll check.

Me: ???

Woman: (reappearing from bowels of service dept): It needs a new logic board.

Me: So I'm paying you $55 to tell me that it's going to cost me $1161 to replace one component of a $1700 computer?

I will spare you the rest of the conversation because there wasn't any until I went out the door, unsellable computer in my arms, and closed the sliding door rather unhappily, uttering quiet expletives when I got outside.

Woman then had nerve to open door and tell me not to slam the door. I suggested (very diplomatically of course) that as the sole Apple agent in my place of residence she was the frontline for unhappy customers, of which she could now count me as one, and she had a bloody cheek to complain about the treatment of her precious door considering she was going to let me walk out of it without specifically telling me my computer was still fecked.

Back to Windows for me. Free software available everywhere, including the antivirus so necessary. And if the whole thing falls apart I can buy a brand new clone computer for less than the price of the precious Apple "logic board".

If anyone wants a 18 month old iMac in perfect condition unless you want to listen to music, feel free to call me before I take it to the tip.

A sour taste left in the mouth of this Apple "convert".

[AppleMacster]

Binos,

Sorry to hear about your frustrations with your local Apple service centre. Not all service centres are alike. From this thread on the mactalk forums, it might be worth contacting Apple Australia direct – it looks like yours isn't an isolated experience:

http://forums.mactalk.com.au/archive/index.php/t-16794.html

Applemacster.

[The Flying Pram]

"The Gadget Show" on channel 5 here in the U.K. recently did a comparison on the ease of repairing a damaged P.C. vs MAC. They deliberately dropped one of each onto a concrete floor. Then set about seeing how much damage was done and how easily (and cheaply) each could be repaired. Despite similar faults on both machines, the P.C. was working within a couple of hours at a cost of less than £100 with readily available parts. The Mac however had to be sent away to an authorised repair centre, as they were unable to buy the required components. This took a couple of weeks and the final bill was many times more.

[green granite]

I'm about to upgrade, I was considering a Mac but not now, thanks Binos you may have saved me some heartache.

[AppleMacster]

green granite,

Whilst Binos' experience has been less than brilliant with Apple, consider those of us who have been happily using Macs for twenty years without problem, before making your decision. If you can, get to an AppleStore and speak to the staff – they are best-placed to advise.

AppleMacster

[Spinflight]

I'm sure if you whinge enough, to Apple rather than a franchise, you'll get it repaired properly.

You'd be daft to go back to a PC after investing in Apple.

Sounds like an IO problem to me, could be a case of a loose connection somewhere as IO is normally buletproof.

[Mad Monk]

Unfortunate news on your motherboard/audio distortion. I only hope it is a rare phenomenon.
I have found Apple UK to be better, but Apple support has never been great, I have paid for Applecare which I hope I never have to use. This is 24hr at site hardware replacement and 24/7 'phone hardware/software support at, I think, 129GBP for two years beyond initial. Primary reason is hardware, a G5 Quadcore, 8Gb ram and two 500Gb drives as RAID 0 stripe. Plus an iBook.
In the 12 years I have been using Macs I have had a MotherBoard failure on an iBook, most of that particular model failed, then failed again after m/b replacement. Of the scores of Macs with which I have been acquainted, I also run a Mac hard/software support group in my 'free' time, I know of three m/b fails[see above] and one ram[not vouchsafed] failure.

There is no perfect OS/software/hardware yo pays yo money yo takes yo choice.
People screw up, systems become confused. Do housekeeping.

With a glass of Sauvignon Blanc and shavings of Mimolette, I bid you goodnight. M.

[Shiny side down]

I recently switched to mac. I love it.
I have a macbook.

Previously, I always built my own PC systems. My last one is still running fine electronically- it's about 6years old. I got to the point where I needed a laptop.
My reason for switching from pc was irritation with Windows, and the increasing incompatibilities of certain hardware components running under a PC setup.

So now I have a macbook, and almost everything is great.
I had to get office:mac for .doc documents and xl files. I have a hotmail address.
My only problems with the mac have been related to MSoffice software, which is forever having updates for security issues (de ja vu...), and which has crashed approximately 50% of the times it's been used.

I'm not sure a drop test onto concrete is a realistic test of reliability and return to operation. Yes, a pc will be fixable quickly in this situation. Once you have worked out if this grafix card is compatible with that bus, or this SP on windows. If the new chipset is going to have USB crashing issues. All stuff you have to keep current on.
Day to day reliability is significantly better with the mac.

[Keef]

Macs now seem to be like Jaguars were in the 1980s. Owners love 'em, even though they spend a large proportion of their time in being repaired.

My younger daughter is a Mac-freak. She and her husband have three of the things. I annoy her by saying "one to use, one waiting to go for repair, one at the repairers". But she still loves 'em. I've never used one, so have no opinion. My Windows PC and laptop and the old Linux clunker just work, and have done for years. Minor glitches get fixed quickly and easily.

She and I both had bad experiences with iPods (now sorted - both have been OK for almost a year). My brand-new one was faulty, and they then wanted me to send it away for repair. I had to get quite aggressive before they accepted that "faulty out of the box, brand new" = "I don't want that one at all. Send me another brand new one or my money back".

So ... Apple Customer Service "could do better".

[bnt]

I can understand going back to a PC, not so sure about Windows, though. OS X is UNIX-based, so I wonder if you might find Linux useful - something like Ubuntu or Fedora. Unless you have a lot of Windows applications, of course - but PC hardware no longer has to mean Windows exclusively. :8

[rotorcraig]

Give Ubuntu Linux a spin. In fact I've settled on Linux Mint which is an Ubuntu derivative that ships with all the MP3 and DVD codecs that Ubuntu leave for you to install yourself.

Discovered last night that the latest Skype for Linux now supports Beta Video Calls; installed and it worked with my Creative webcam first time ... now I'll *never* have to boot back into XP again :ok:

RC

[seekayess]

Binocs reaction is quite akin to being in Paris and deciding to go up the Eiffel Tower for the view.


It is quite an enjoyable view except that, due to some technical problem with the final lift, you are not able to go all the way up. The lady hostess there apologises for the inconvenience caused.


And you come away, fuming, fit to be tied down!


And then you advise all your friends never to go to France!


Quelle logic!!:rolleyes::rolleyes:



. . . . and, GG believes all the 'horrid France' tales!!

[stagger]

In my experience many committed Mac users seem to get some sort of perverse pleasure from sharing stories of faults with each other and visiting Apple stores to get things fixed - it gives them an excuse to hang out with fellow Mac users.

Example...

I introduced one Mac user friend to another - he looked at the other guy's Macbook and said "Oh, my display hinge broke in just the same way as yours....." and they launched into a long conversation about the various faults they'd encountered and how they got them fixed. It was all very cheerful - they weren't moaning - it seemed like some sort of weird bonding process based on shared experiences.

One of these guys, whenever he comes to visit, invariably gets excited and makes a big deal about having to go to the Apple store to get something fixed. He actually seems to be pleased to have an excuse to go there.

In fact, every Mac user I know has needed to go to the Apple store to get something fixed on at least one occasion. And they don’t seem to resent it all that much.

There's something very strange going on with this brand.

[Lamenting Navigator]

Oh no, that's really sad. I'm about to upgrade to a new iBook after many years in a torrid Apple affair (PCs at work, Macs at home). OK, so some things are a bit of a mare, like PC users who can't understand I don't communicate the same way as them. But the committed prevail! I'm still in love with the G4, which despite being a tad grubby round the edges after travelling the world with me is running as well as it did when I got it four years ago. Just got my sticky mits on a i-phone this morning (a story for another day) and off to the Apple store to commit more Apple adultery by buying a new i-book.

[green granite]

nd, GG believes all the 'horrid France' tales!!

Not really, BUT I want a machine that, if it goes wrong after say 18 months, I can nip down to the nearest PC World and get a new bit to drop in, total time about 2hrs, not fart about taking it to a dealers rip off emporium. (that observation is not just based on Binos comments)

[Binoculars]

As always on forums, some take any post as an opportunity to air their own views without really having any interest in the content of the original post. I thank the likes of Apple Macster for the tremendously helpful advice they gave me when I was contemplating buying my first Mac, and in case the message didn't get through in my first post I'll repeat it. I have come to love the Mac experience and I most certainly did not post to rubbish Macs, because I believe they are superior to PC's in all sorts of ways.

The whole point of my post was to share my experience for the benefit of others, and that particular information concerned the quality of service but more importantly a sad acknowledgement of a couple of the points Mac critics like to jump on. One of those is that Mac owners tend to fall in love with the product so much they become defensive when problems are pointed out. The second point is that Apple seems to think they can get away with anything when it comes to service because... well, refer to point one.

In the final analysis a computer is a computer. We all have our own requirements and expectations, and mine are fairly uncomplicated. One of them happens to include an expectation that warranty or no warranty, a part costing the best part of the original cost of the whole computer should be expected to last more than 18 months. This is a long way from advising people not to go to France because of a bad experience at the Eiffel Tower.

Let's face it, I'm stuck with the thing because who's going to buy it? I just won't be leaping unthinkingly into the Apple barrel when it comes time to buy a new one. This experience is yours to take on board or disregard as you see fit.

[redsnail]

Binos, sorry to hear you've had troubles with your mac. Even sorrier to hear that you've been badly let down service wise.

[bnt]

Well, our own views naturally come out, because your general issue is hardly a new one, but different people have different experiences. You think this is the first time a computer company has seemed to have hardware problems like this? or trouble providing service? It's not as if Apple themselves actually make hardware: it's all farmed out, so if there are reliability problems this year, there will likely be a different OEM supplier next year. Dell and HP are the same - but Apple controls the hardware specs more tightly (or used to?), so I think Apple customers are right to have higher expectations of reliability, for the higher costs they pay. They position themselves as "the computer for the rest of us who don't like computers" - an appliance, like your washing machine or your TV.

I'm not really qualified to talk about Mac hardware, but I do have concerns about Apple's corporate behaviour (DRM, hardware lock-in, superiority complex). I am more qualified to talk about Microsoft Windows (I'm a Microsoft Certified Systems Engineer in Windows Server), but that doesn't blind me to Microsoft's faults. IMHO Vista currently costs too much money and disruption for what it delivers - but I said the same about XP, back in 2001AD.

I've worked on PC servers for many years - until recently I worked for one of the big makers - and I find myself recommending Linux more these days, because I've had it up to here with paying a lot of money for stuff that should just work. Linux is hardly trouble-free, but you can't beat the price: you can afford to experiment. All I mean by this is: things change, and last year's heroes might be next year's zeroes.

[Nige321]

I have Macs and PCs sitting before me here, and have done for many years.
Apple isn't perfect, but I have always found Apples employees to be courteous and helpful - perhaps Binoculars needs to talk to his local store in a different frame of mind, or try another store...
As for the hardware, a lot of Apples manufacturing is now outsourced and that has caused some reliability probs in the last few years. Their operating system has to be the best around - it's as secure as any OS can be.
(DRM, hardware lock-in, superiority complex).
Bnt
DRM isn't Apples idea, it's the music companies (Apple was the first to remove DRM...) . Hardware lock in - yes please, at least I know if I buy a piece of software or hardware for the Mac, IT WILL WORK! The same cannot be said of the PC... And Mac OSX doesn't have any of the registration cr@p that MS puts us through., (Software Lock In...!?)
N

[tallsandwich]

Apple was the first to remove DRM

Oh yes, but only after a Skandinavian country protested about the iTunes/iPod anti-trust situation and the EU then decided to make a case about it...only then did Apple act, in fear.

Having a dominant poistion in one market (mp3 players) and then forcing users to manage their purchased music on Apple iTunes and iPod only (to kill off the competition) is parallel to having a dominant poistion in the OS market and ensuring that everyone gets an internet brower for free (to kill off the competition). The former is of course Apple and the latter of course M/S.

Finally OSX is not as secure as any OS can be, it has a reputation to be virus safe but that is mainly thanks to its small market share (hackers go for the biggest target) and Apple's lack of flexibility that permits tighter controls. Mac users willingly suffer that lack of flexibility and choice. Either way, the Mac experience will continue to get more and more security problems. A secure OS that was "as secure as an OS could be" would perhaps have the name "Trusted Solaris", it is certainly not OSX.

I regularly review my poistion to see if there is Mac hardware or OS that suits me, so far the advantages of compatibility and flexibilty that comes with Windows has always won my vote, despite the extra effort that may be needed to keep a machine in a reliable config - most of this effort is discipline.

Both companies and their products are equally bad.

[Carrier]

Binos, sorry to learn of your problems. I followed with interest your posts on changing to a Mac. Our experience has been the opposite. After 8 years with one of the first Power Macs, a 6100/66, we made the disastrous mistake of changing to a Windoze laptop. I posted the item below last year to warn others of our experience. The only update is that we have now returned to the first world and have a working printer, a new Canon iP3300. Our next purchase as soon as funds accumulate will be a new Mac. In the meantime we will have to struggle on with the limited performance of our Toshiba, which as far below what we paid for and were supposed to have received. We have been defrauded by unscrupulous companies. This is not defamation; it is the unpleasant truth! Others should boycott these scoundrels.

After three years of struggling with a Toshiba Satellite 5200 PS520C-31POEP laptop and HP Deskjet 450 printer Mrs C and I have had enough of Toshiba, Hewlett-Packard, Future Shop (Circuit City), Microsoft, Windows Xtreme Pain, and everything connected with them. We have been having continual problems with these products ever since they were purchased from Future Shop in Canada.
As one example, our laptop has a DVD burner but we have never been able to record on a DVD. We are unable to refer to the instructions. The specification and instructions both on the computer and in the printed manual make no reference at all to DVD recording or even to a DVD burner being on the computer. They refer only to CDs and CD functions. Toshiba ignored our requests for a manual for the DVD version of the computer. When the Better Business Bureau became involved Toshiba finally sent another manual for the CD only version.
The HP Deskjet 450 has not worked properly since we received it. After we initially got it working while still in Canada with the help of HP technicians it still often took fifty or more attempts over several days to get it to print a one page Word document. It would not print photos. Early last year it ceased to function. The initial HP CD-ROM froze the new computer when inserted. Two replacement HP CD-ROMs with supposedly updated software improved the situation somewhat but still did not solve the problems.
We are sure most readers will agree that when we opened the boxes we should have received a computer and printer with properly developed software that is stable and will work reliably. Full and correct instructions for these products should have been in the boxes. We have repeatedly asked Toshiba and Hewlett-Packard to supply these but have been ignored.
Despite help from two Better Business Bureaux in Canada and the US and Ontario’s Ministry of Consumer & Business Services we have still not received the correct manual and operating software from Toshiba for this computer and correct software from Hewlett-Packard for the printer to make them work reliably and with all features functioning properly. We are particularly upset because at the time of purchase we made it clear to Future Shop that we would be moving to a fly-in safari lodge in a remote location in Africa and therefore needed reliable equipment. This computer and printer were recommended as being suitable but they have proved to be anything but reliable. The brand new computer even came with outdated Windows XP operating system software! These products are clearly not suitable for the purpose for which they were sold.
This Toshiba computer and HP printer are so bad that we have considered buying a used PowerBook or iBook and Canon printer by mail from somewhere like CPUsed in Toronto just so that we can have a reasonably reliable computer and printer. However, why should we have to do this? We paid a substantial sum for these products. It is up to Toshiba and Hewlett-Packard to support their products and solve the problems. Indeed, the problems should have been solved before the products were put on the market. Why don’t these companies have competent product development procedures and effective quality control systems in place? The same comments apply to the Microsoft Windows XP operating system. This has had a continuous stream of updates in a ludicrous number of attempts to get it to perform as intended. It is impertinent of Toshiba, Hewlett-Packard and Microsoft to prematurely release products and use the public as unpaid and involuntary product testers! It is even worse that they then refuse to correct the defects.
Honest and competent companies stand by their products. They want to solve any problems and have their products perform as intended for their customers. The obvious conclusion one has to arrive at from our treatment is that the companies mentioned above do not fall into the category of honest and competent companies! As per the McLibel case in the UK and EU courts we do not have the resources to force these dishonest companies to perform. In any case it would be impossible to take any action from this distance. I have no doubt they are taking advantage of this. We have to accept that these unscrupulous Enron-style corporations and their employees of similar ethical standards have swindled us. We have to accept that this Toshiba computer and HP printer from Future Shop will never work properly. We intend to return to a Macintosh for our next computer, as soon as we are able to return to the First World.
We had a Power Mac 6100/66 and StyleWriter 2 (Canon) for more than eight years in Canada. These worked well and did what it said on the box. We sold them and bought the Toshiba and Hewlett-Packard products on Microsoft Windows XP three years ago. How we regret this! We should have bought a Mac PowerBook and Canon printer.
Anyone considering buying a new computer, printer or related product, particularly if they intend to move to a remote location, should consider our experience before making a decision on what to buy and from which companies.

[FerrypilotDK]

Sorry about your problems. I have had 4 Triumph motorcycles and three were the best bikes I have ever owned. I still have two of them. The fourth was a problem from the beginning and it took two importers and shops in different countries, working with Triumph to finally correct the problem...26 months and many headaches later.

Point.....sometimes it just was a bad day at the shop. Should I have thereafter decided to never have a Triumph again?

So to macs....my first mac was a Classic in 1986. 1 MB of RAM! PCs didn´t have that. I had a mouse, crystal black letters on a white background (like a book) and 3.5 inch hard "floppies" instead of those easily damaged floppie floppies. "Windows" while PCs were DOS and commands. I have never gone to a PC and never will, although I have "had" to use them in various jobs or for a specific program. Now, I run PC stuff on Mac FASTER than they run on PCs! Interesting! We now have a Mini, a MacBook Pro and an iMac and 3 iPods. The imac had a fancontrol unit die after 18 months and thousands of hours. No problems with anything else. We had a Cube harddisc die after 6 years...

MP3 players....no iPods are transportable HARDDISCS folks. One of ours has NEVER had a song on it. It travels back and forth carrying work around in its sleek little body and has been for ages. It is of the second generation, 20GB and a Firewire, which most PCs STILL don´t have!

Price? Do a real comparison and get back to me.

Repairs....haven´t had to pay for any other than the fan problem and it was €110. Not cheap, but compared to my brother-in-law, who has "upgraded" his PC 3 times in the same time period for failures, hardware that was not working with software etc....much cheaper!

I bought 3 laptops for our company. Vista.....ha ha . Got them back, they don´t work with a server.....Oh, these are "meant" to be home laptops....so this version of Vista doesn´t work with a server(!) There are 13 versions of Vista!!!!!!!!!! What a joke. They ended up "downgrading" to XP AND had to buy a license for each machine at a couple hundred quid a pop.

At my 604 course, all the other guys would watch movies on my 17 inch Pro, rather than their laptops...much better clarity and sound they said...

So I rest my case. I will be riding Triumph and using my macs until they pry them from my dead hands! Not at the same time of course!

cheers from BIRK!

[tallsandwich]

Carrier: Ok, part of the nice thing about not having a Mac is choice, but you have to use that choice carefully. Tosh laptop? Not good, I agree. I feel for you.

FerryPilotDK: 13.634 versions of Vista - yes, and everyone of them runs the latest Java Virtual Machine (unlike Leopard) and guess what - I can CHOOSE which JVM I want on my computer :-) so even if Mr Jobs has not got around to doing Java 6 for Leopard, never mind at least it would be nice if I could choose another JVM from another supplier - and it wuold be nice if they all work first time, just like non Microsoft JVMs do on Windows.

I admit that sometimes you just want something to work and have no decisions to take - that formula (although it only sometomes applies to a Mac) is in my opinion not so good in the world of IT where so much changes so rapidly.

[green granite]

Why the rants about Windoze? It's got nothing to do with the repairability of a m/c, you don't have to use it there's plenty of xxxnix systems that work perfectly well for business usage.

[bnt]

FerryPilotDK - thanks for reminding me about Firewire, and why most PCs don't have it. Apple wanted an extortionate licensing fee for every port... so everyone else went for USB 2.0.

Don't get me started on HP printers... if it wasn't for the Enterprise products and Service infrastructure they got when they bought Compaq, HP would be just a printer company by now. Why does a printer driver require a download of hundreds of megabytes?

[Binoculars]

An update for general info, again to be taken on board as required.

About six weeks ago, on top of the inability of the iMac to play music, it developed a dead pixel line almost exactly down the centre of the screen. If ever there had been any doubts about its unsaleability (?) they were removed.

Then, almost as though by spiritual intervention, the sound problem fixed itself and has remained fine ever since. Though the slightly irritating line down the centre of the monitor remains, it is rather like a mild ache in that you learn to live with it and eventually don't even notice it's there. So I continue to use the iMac as my desktop machine and appreciate it for the good things about it.

What bugs me though is the competence of the service agent. You have a car that you paid well above average money for, let's say a Honda. You bought it because so many people tell you how well it is put together. It does everything you need and more, because in truth your needs are simple and could basically be met by a baby Ford.

Out of the blue develops an engine noise which manifests itself in a narrow band just around the speed limit. It's not deafening, but it's irritating. The car still performs its normal duties admirably and without a hint of a problem. You take it to the only dealer in town and ask them to investigate. It's out of warranty but you figure it can't be a major problem. After they've had it for a week, they present you with a basic service charge and the advice that you will have to replace the engine. You tell them to shove it.

Six weeks later the noise disappears and doesn't come back. How do you feel about the competence of your dealer? Should I make a complaint to Apple Australia or would I, as I suspect, be wasting my time completely? What could it achieve?

[hellsbrink]

Complaining to Apple maybe won't achieve much, Binos, but "going public" about the *cough* "service" will hurt them more.

I'm sure that there are nice newspaper people in Skippyland who will happily whine publically on your behalf, and that will hurt them more than you will be able to do yourself. You paid the equivalent of a leg, arm and vital part of your anatomy for something so you should expect it to work with no issues, just like all them poor sods who were buying Mercs a couple of years ago.

Oh, as far as the software that comes with a Mac, you'll probably find EVERYTHING you need for a PC for nowt. Personally, I been finding Open Source stuff works perfectly so there is no need to spend megabucks on things. And do you REALLY need a GUI that "looks pretty" yet only does the same as a basic "Windoze Classic" layout?

Sorry, Mac users, I think these things are way overpriced and I ain't been that impressed with the OS or anything else about them. Mind you, I still want an OS that works as simply as the old Miggy Workbench (2.x or above). I can dream but I doubt I'll ever see that again.....

[Nige321]

Sorry, Mac users, I think these things are way overpriced and I ain't been that impressed with the OS or anything else about them. Mind you, I still want an OS that works as simply as the old Miggy Workbench (2.x or above). I can dream but I doubt I'll ever see that again.....

Your ignorance is our bliss...:D

[hellsbrink]

Nige, I can only go by my own experiences.

One of stepkids' boyfriend has a Mac laptop, and despite a few hours "playing" with it I could not see any reason for why I would want one.

Don't get me wrong, if I could see a real advantage I would recommend getting one. But I can't, I can find no reason to justify the cost of the them at all.

Sorry

[AppleMacster]

Binos,

That's good news about your iMac, apart from the screen issue. Have you tried zapping the PRAM & NVRAM? It might solve the problem: http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=2238


I think a letter to Apple is worth it – Australia is a new territory for their own AppleStores. Resellers in the rest of the country will need to be singing from the same hymn sheet. Here in the UK, many resellers now have "Apple style" shops, remodelled in association with Apple and the staff having received training from them as well. They are known as "Premium Resellers". It will be more important to Apple now to see where the resellers in Oz are going wrong so that service can be improved.

AppleMacster

[Nige321]

And I can only go by mine..

The old Mac/PC game is an old one - I have PCs and Macs running here in front of me.

The Macs - we come in, switch them on, run them for 8 hours, (Adobe CS3 Illustrator, Photoshop, Lightwave 3D, Office, Mail, Firefox) all running together all day. We switch 'em off and go home. They NEVER crash, NEVER get viruses (Yes I know they can but we take very simple precautions to make sure they don't). Maintenance etc is non existant. Installing new software or system upgrades is a non event. Being so intuitive, training new staff takes around 30% of the time compared to a PC.

The PCs - Dell machines - reliable but viruses are a constant nightmare. Still running XP as Vista is a joke - nothing will work with it - scanners, printers, CNC machines etc. To us, totally un-intuitive to use. Like many small (and large) businesses, we are quickly moving away from anything with MS written on it...

The choice for a business is a no brainer...

N

[hellsbrink]

Nige

My PC's don't get turned off as such, they get a restart occasionally and that's it. They generally run 24/7 (Vista box got shutdown 3 weeks ago, iirc). I don't have any issues with them (now it's one XP Pro and a Vista since the XP Home laptop kinda went BANG, and the scorch mark on the circuit board is a cracker. You don't want to know what the smell was like but that was a manufacturer problem. Can happen to anyone). Even the latest Vista updates didn't crash that one, despite one of these updates causing issues. I'm a home/small business user so having the machines working is crucial to me (2 stepkids at college, etc) so I need reliability. I was ONCE hit by a virus, and those stepkids know the rules regarding opening emails/downloading. I have no issues, you only need basic precautions and decent AV/firewall software (all of which is free as we know). I actually know how safe my PC's are, mainly since I got nailed once it made me paranoid about things like that. Of course, what is needed at your work kinda dictates what you need to use, I cannot see the need to spend THAT much on something that will do what is needed by us.

Of course, as I have said before, NEVER download a driver from Windows Update. I learned that the hard way.

Again, don't get me wrong. I am open to things. I just cannot figure out why a Mac is better (will be attacking that laptop again this weekend. After all, one has to gain experience with things before you can condemn them, and I cannot recommend a Mac. That attitude may change, and if it does I will happily bake the biggest Humble Pie you have ever seen and invite you over to share it)

Dell? Don't talk to me about them. My experiences with these things were so bad I wouldn't even widdle on them

[Saab Dastard]

A gentle reminder to all to please not allow this to descend to another Mac / PC bashing thread.

:ok:

Cheers

SD

[The Voice]

Hi Bino's,

Quite some time ago I had an issue with my Mac. The service agent was next to useless so I started going up the line till I got the problem fixed and I was satisfied with the outcome.

If the service agent isn't doing the right thing by the brand, then the brand owner should be made aware. The service agent themselves isn't going to let the owner know that they're slipping in the customer care department, but you can.

Pounds to peanuts, you wouldn't have been the only one that's walked out their precious office door and getting yarped at for 'slamming' it.

From memory there's a 1800 or 1300 number to call for this and other sorts of issues ...

[John Eacott]

Australia: 133 622

Apple worldwide phone numbers (http://www.apple.com/support/contact/phone_contacts.html)

You need to be in warranty (extended warranty is worth the cost, especially via E Bay at half price :ok: ) to get a decent response, but it's 1000% improvement on the phone service from MS. If you can ever get MS to answer the phone, that is :p



SD,

Wouldn't this be better merged with the Mac sticky?