KQ Job advertisement

[jojo1977]

Hi,

In today's Daily Nation Kenya Airways has put an advertisement in which they say they are looking for (Kenyan) pilots. I took a look at their site to see the requirements, which are as follows for those interested.

Good luck

Full Job Description Qualified Pilots (http://career.kenya-airways.com/careers/jobdes.aspx?id=Job Ref. F/310/11/07)
Country: Kenya
Description:

Responsibilities:

Experience:

Educational Requirements
• Minimum educational qualification of mean grade C+ or equivalent
with at least grade C+/Credits in English, Mathematics, Physics,.
Higher qualifications will be an added advantage.
• Grade “A” aeroplane performance rating.
• Kenyan CPL with instrument rating with no limitations.
• Gas turbines
• Minimum of 250 hours. Accident/incident free
• Must possess strong inter-personal, communication and organisational
skills.
• Must be strong team players.
• High integrity.
Close Date:22 November 2007

[Tcee747]

thanks

Know anything about their work schedule/pay/days off per month etc?

[Contract Dog]

Min of 250 hrs accident or incident free???? are you kidding? does anyone else see the funny side to that?:E

Dog

[Skylion]

The ad is restricted to Kenyan nationals only. KALPA strongly resists the employment of non Kenyans either permanently or as contractors and the company has been reluctant to cross this line.

[kotakota]

Skylion , you are spot on . I may do line training on 738s , I even speak Swahili , but no chance I am afraid !
Should have applied for a passport when I was eligible , back in the mists of time , but pointless now as I am far too mzee to be an FO now !!
Work permits at Wilson are like rocking horse s**t too , so I will just have to
sit on the beach !

[futurekenyanpilot]

hey u kq pilots, how many hours do 737-300 first officers fly? i understand if u join them u go on the 737-300s. Who flies the saab 340's and the embraer 170 lrs?How long can it take a first officer to have 3000 hrs?i hope to fly with you guyz soon.

[Nightfire]

Well, I'm also waiting in the cue...

Look at this:
With 777 and 737 ratings, both active, as PIC and TRI with experience on both types, many hours, additional qualifications, and despite the fact that I speak Kiswahili (among four other languages) and have lived in Nairobi for 19 years of my life.

Unfortunately, I'm a mzungu with the "wrong" passport.

:mad: KALPA = :yuk:

[ENGG4LIFE]

well if you are joining kq as a pilot you are very lucky just make sure they pay you as much as they pay their locals. as for engineers talk about modern day slavery you got full blown engineers with the complete fleet to their signature but the boys aint seeing even a quater of what they captains make. thats sad and cheap from the pride of africa.

[Nightfire]

Bwana, I'm not concerned about the payscale. As a pilot, I'm interested in my own salary; everybody else has their own union to take care of their wages.
And anyway, KQ will not take any foreigners, least of all as a PIC, thanks to KALPA-discrimination.

[Solid Rust Twotter]

Wouldn't the concern of any ALPA be to protect jobs for nationals? If they can bring a required skill the airline needs, with no nationals able to fill the position, I see no reason why foreigners shouldn't be considered.

[Nightfire]

You can look at it that way, true. But here are my reasons:

For many years during which I kept trying to send in my papers, there was a demand for pilots at KQ (they even advertised positions through Sigmar Aviation for a while). KALPA, however, prevented anybody from coming in.

Kenyan pilots are working in various other nation's airlines where they earn more money or have better career-opportunities - and why not, I would do the same if I were them - but then, why can other guys not also try their luck in Kenya?

Nowadays, the market should decide. More so, since KQ is a private company and no longer government-owned. So if they need pilots, everybody with suitable qualifications and references should get a chance to apply. Not only those people who happen to be citizens of Kenya.

It would also raise the professional standard of the company, if HR-dept could select from a larger pool of pilots, instead of only a few dozen. So the airline would benefit from it.

The job of any ALPA is to protect the rights of flight crew. But if the government decides to issue somebody a work-permit, then an individual company should not have the right to discriminate against certain applicants. I have a work-permit, and I'm not just a low-experienced F/O who's looking to fly a few hours, but have spent many years of studying and taking checks. So I don't even take away the chances of a new graduate, but compete against other professionals.

[SIMBA KALI]

As a kenyan, I will defend the union's decision on that matter;Look at it as just a good way of taking care of the great kenyan nationals. Ain't nothing wrong with a union safeguarding its nationals best interests.:D:D

[onitl]

any one with an idea when kq will stop employment in regards to favours to known guys!!! so i heard some F/o was relieaved of duty after miss performing since he was employed through the parent being powerfull in a top govt boby!! there are guys who sincerly deserve the oportuinty.... now they spent money on type rating and the guy is out back to the backbone wilson airport......
No hard feelings but mybe its something kalpa should look at if Kq is to withold its integrity !!!!!
i think Kenya is maturing off the old schoolway of doing things and we should join hand s:ugh:

[SIMBA KALI]

Onitl.....
Where on earth doesn't corruption exist ? Good thing someone in KQ isn't putting up with BS and is quick to kick incompetent guyz to the cub:D:D Can't quote any prominent family's kid that has been in that spot, but I was in kenya in 2003 when something of that sort had just happened. Checks and balances at works :ok:

[onitl]

checks & balances are being checked yes but who then checks incompitence heard few new released capt's complain about thier F/o's making it seem like a single crew aircraft?????? on the other hand those who join from wilson or got few hours and experince all i hear is praise and competence and guess a live and confident flight dec!who is to screen or look after that!!!! just confirm kalpa.......
if i you could listen to the ATC Rt with some of the guys you would really wonder whats up but hei guess more jobs for kenyans:uhoh:

[kotakota]

I think we can safely say that the union does not have the airlines best interests at heart . This is nothing new , I am working for one now ( in Europe ) and the guys here adopt the dog in the manger attitude . I don't really like my company but I do not want anybody else to work here !
If people really cared about their airline and its furure they would want the best people working there . The policy of employing by nepotism is very dodgy indeed.
KQ are a great company , but I was told that the 767 on order was cancelled because of the refusal to even offer short term contracts to experienced crew . There seems to be a good supply of Kenyan pilots coming through the schools , probably enough to crew the airline in the future . But there should be SOME selection issues which do see past the possession of a passport as the be-all and end-all of recruitment.
The expansion of any airline can be accelerated by the judicious employment of short-term trainers on contract while the new boys acquire the necessary hours for promotion etc. This is not rocket science .
The unions absolute refusal to agree to ANY contracts does not bode well .
The day will come when a strike will be called because one of their number is disciplined and the only people who suffer are the passengers , followed by the airline itself.
The union could do its credibility a power of good by at least offering to agree to certain MUTUALLY AGREED short term contracts . If the company then tries to alter this , then the necessary action can be taken.
Invoking an IFALPA ban when nobody has been disenfranchised is vexing.

[SIMBA KALI]

I have a bunch of mates that left the states with ATP's and are running miraa routes and flying 206's in the bush. Kenya at the moment has more than enough hot blooded pilots that can be trained to suit KQ needs. I don't think KQ will have any shortage of pilots on any near future for that matter. Why should KQ be hiring wazungus while kenyans have enough brains and skill to keep those wings afloat? Come on guyz...too sad no expertriates can be let in. For the 767 issue, can't comment on that but I highly doubt KQ can't be able to outfit guyz to drive it. The last report from KQ's CEO Taitus Naikuni illustrated shrunken profits attributed to escalating gas prices and partly by the depreciating US dollar rates; so maybe thats the reason that order might have been cancelled. Don't forget about the 73 they lost afew months ago.

Nightfire.........Pole sana boss. You want a kenyan passport you can alwayz get it. Toa kitu kidogo still works . You wonder why all those asians are "kenyans" by birth and hold kenyan passports ?

[Nightfire]

Well, SiMBA KALI, that's exactly the point:
As you said yourself: Kitu Kidogo always does the trick. So tell me, why should I then buy a passport at Nyayo house, when I might as well buy a manager at KQ? Thing is: I refuse to take part in that sort of thing. Anybody with some backbone should, and certainly a responsible pilot must also have the guts to draw a morale limit.
I want to be a pilot for my favorite airline in my beloved country. But not like that. KQ should take me because I'm good and because I'm experienced and loyal. Not, repeat NOT because I'm a rich mzungu!

As for those 206-drivers flying miraa around the country: Sorry for them if they are forced to take that sort of job. But as a TRI I tell you that those guys have had it anyway. A former bush-pilot, who has been in the GA for too long (with 500 hours flying 5Y-cessnas as a hobby over the last 16 years I saw A LOT of bad stuff at HKNW) will never make a good airline pilot again. The attitude and the way of doing things of these "cowboys" is not suitable.
For sure they know how to land a plane on a short runway, but they find it hard to get back to SOP's, to study manuals, and to rely on instructions instead of instincts (the other day I had a verbal fight with a student who refused to accept a go-around from an unstable approach, saying "but I could have made it!").

No, there are thousands of pilots available, many of them professional pilots in the field they work in (for MAF or as agricultural pilots), but not suitable for an airline in the flight-deck of a Boeing.

And yes, an airline should employ pilots according to their skills. Which I am ready to demonstarte in an interview, a written test and a sim-check - right here and now.
But if the airline choses to take candidates according to their parents' status, personal friendships, and "chai" - well, then that's not professional, is it? Then don't be surprised if a Cmdr. has to fly "single pilot", because of a confused F/O.

KALPA protects Kenyan pilots, which you, as a Kenyan, like. Of course you do. Probably you are even a member of them.
But it does not benefit the airline, I can tell you that. In the long run, it will do you more harm than good - at the latest, when your next aircraft crashes due to pilot's error (which mungu may prevent!!).

And, by the way, I will never accept a short-term contract. That's only for mercenaries.
I will fly for a fixed contract upon the airline and I can agree. In return I offer my commitment to the company. No more, no less.

[onitl]

ya guys lets get facts together, kq is great , i did interviews i got like 5000hrs 30yrs old prime for airline hr and **** did on do well in maths but i am Pic on 206, 208, DHC-6 , beech craft 200 and finally on dash 8 , wonder where maths comes in , but i guess thats reqiurement,if they still get their prefarence in terms of accademics and KALPa aint doing **** about it then gues we will have few more duala,a before reality hits the nail on the head..... who em i to speak...... guess theybhave their selection process so up to standards that i can flop theirs and pass an airbus 320 sim check ride and interview process, anyaways Kapla is the reciting body of Kq and i guess their check list is better than the rest of the airlines......
So if we to help the pride of africa keep its satuts i guesss guys have to face facts and sort this out and get experience 1st then personal pride after get experienced help too keep up. NO NEED TO BE PRIDE OF AFRICA FOR 5 YEARS THEN IT FALLS TO ****. KALPA has young guys WAKE UP TO THE CALL!!! OUT:ugh:

[SIMBA KALI]

Nightfire...
what kind of riffa are you smocking??? :confused: "Pilot error that a mzungu may prevent"....:=:=:( And by the way the last time I checked wilson airport, alot of yanks and yahoos from alabama, north carolina and wisconsin were looking for bush flying gigs to get experience. Maybe you are one of the Delamere syndrome products who thinks you are too good compared to native kenyans; what the :mad: dude are you racist ?? Thats the exact reason why we have Kalpa to which am not even a member; to keep the likes of you with that retarded mentality off limits.:ok::ok:So you think you can fix kenya's corrupt system as if you are living in your own little island singing kumbaya all day. Even the vatican itself has corruption deeply rooted. So yes, this is a noble proffession but I will scratch somebody's back if they sure will scratch mine in retro:ok::ok: Corruption is why humanity wins!!! At the end of the day, I will be somewhere at the Carnivore enjoying the simple pleasures of life the kenyan way to which I believe you dearly miss!!!! My guess is , you are probably somewhere in the sandpit where you can not even get a simple lay.....go mount a mule:} And oh by the way ask those young blokes you see there under 30 and they will mention training in Texas or Florida while the old timers Ex-military. So yes, KQ has an outstanding crew.:)


Onitl...sorry about yor case but wakenya twaweza kujikaza basi usife moyo. I have a pal after flying those miraa routes got hired and last time I checked , he got his way to left seat of a 757. He only but had a C plain overall in his grades. Naja nami pia nipange mlolongo moja kwa moja hadi siku ile itakuja.

[Renaissance]

I think the mishap was to be prevented by "Mungu" not Mzungu..... anyway my two cents.... cheers

[kotakota]

For the record , the 767 was cancelled before the current fuel price explosion and way before the 73 tragedy. Take my word for it ,please.

[Nightfire]

Simba Kali, as Renaissance has said, I wrote "Mungu" and not "Mzungu" as the one who may prevent more accidents.

Read my post once more, and this time properly, before writing comments like that. We're not in a Carnivore-barfight here.

And btw. I don't work in the sandpit, but even if I did, what does that have to do with anything we're talking about on this thread?

The only racists are those guys, who want to keep KQ free of foreigners.

[SIMBA KALI]

So Nightfire,
mungu mzungu....pilot error.....cut the crap, you know exactly what you meant :=. Kalpa like any other unions in developed countries in the west; is bonafide and has the best of interests for the sovereign kenyan nationals. So far Kenya has been welcoming to wazungus even after the colonial era, and we shall keep it that way lest we kenyans want a "Mugabe" to take over:E to which we actually don't. We shall stay moderate. FYI, Titus Naikuni happens to be a maasai too.....hats off!!!:D
Kotakota,
After its all said and done, we can only but speculate why they cancelled that 767 order. KQ at the end of the day will still remain profitable and should I say be "The envy of Africa" . Guyz , give credit where it is due and stop fidgetting with trivial matters.

[onitl]

guys take it easy time will tell:D,no need of getting at each other!

[Buddhapilot]

SIMA KALI, I have been reading your posts on this thread and have come to the conclusion that your not really able to comment on this, being that you live in the UNITED STATES, Dallas if I am not mistaken to your location!! To bad our Unions do not stand up for us here in the US like they do in Kenya. I wish that our Unions here would only give jobs to American citizens and not Green card holders. This is a sore subject....I was raised in Africa, consider it my home and would do anything to go back there and work. My guess, your in flight training here, like everyone comes to do, living off of daddy's paycheck with a job all lined up back in Kenya when you get done......and if not your working here on a Green card and have really no room to lay into others that are just frustrated with the situation that it is. Don't get me wrong, I am glad that KALPA sticks up for you guz, too bad ours here in the US don't.......

[onitl]

to be raelistic KALPA is self centerd and to my surprice when i visited kenya and tolke to me collegues we bumped into a few of them and yah i see the reason why KQ dropped in profits its not bad but men at the end of the day its a job like any other no need for guys to think its a big deal.!!!THEy are not ''indispenceble"'Look at what happened to the last chief..........!!!!!!where is Kalpa to his rescue.......
A helping hand is not bad!!Not all musungus want to live in kenya some would come exchange knowladge and enjoy and retire so the notion that foreiners are not cinsidered is a buch of crap????how many kenyans are flying all over guess they are not looked at so badly the way KAlpa does to forein's when it comes to KQ,
:D

[I.R.PIRATE]

Yup, very easy to jump on the patriot/xenophobic wagon.
What if all countries did this? how many Kenyan brothers will be without work.

Very African...

...blind to everything except the colour of your skin.

[Nightfire]

No, we're not getting at each other. A wild kitten feels a little bit provocated, that's all. ;)

[SIMBA KALI]

Before you guyz open you fat mouths and point fingures at Kalpa and KQ , do any of you really understand the plight a common kenyan national faces ? Can anyone give a guess to what the current unemployment rate is ? Income per capita ?? So why should I stand in line waiting for Mr. Johns who has taken my spot......:=:=:mad: That's a bunch of BS !!! Does it make sense to any bloke in here to why anybody would let that happen to its citizens. Sounds clever doesn't it Nightfire :E?? You claim to have lived in Kenya for 16 yrs and yet could not even identify what my point is ?..What a shame..!! What do you really know about Kenya?? Or were you one of those fat wazunguz enjoying yourselves at Panafric and Ngong playing Polo while a braniac stuck in Mathare slums could be having the job a yahoo is sitting on? Doesn't make sense does it :E? Then here you are pissing in your own pool, sometimes you people are too smart to a point you get too foolish. Its like you are living in a radarless existence pretending not to know what Kenyans are all about. Should a "Mugabe" take over; God Forbid:E I don't know what then you will have to say about all your fellow yanks at wilson....Take that to heart and sleep on it. At the end of the day, its all about making a kenyan national's life better than it was yesterday. A pilots salary can feed an entire clan , believe me. For those who think life in kenya is a bed of roses, think and re-think again. Before you try to get a splint out of my eye, get those logs out of yours first!! Peace out !!:ugh:

ONITL...You seem to have it all figured out about KQ's drop in profits. Please elaborate on this.Leave Kalpa out of this because kalpa has nothing whatsoever to do with it.....Shed some light :rolleyes:

Buddhapilot.....I might be flying here in the states doing a job that any other American citizen doesn't want...comprende amigo???:E

[onitl]

simbe kali......
Mugabe is really in your vokab.......
are you going to force kenyans to get pilot licence while the gvt aint even 'trainign candidates to oersue the career !!! unless you go through the military and thats takes time so if there would be shortage do you wana tell me we park the flet waiting for those who can afford to train and get qualified and take off.... there is where i think a helping hand comes in so before we start saying foreiner this that we look at the big picture, by the way i know a manager at safaricom who feeds his entire clan with his salary which is bettar than KQ capt on 777 so flying is cool but dont be mistaken that its all about salary>>>> Quality of life.... why earn loads and yo live a F... misearable life.... Kenya cannot survive on its own like anyother conrty we need each other so its fair enough to share or exchange where necessary....What happpens when Kq goes down i.e air uganda Kq aint anyspecial what are you gonna post !!!!!!! so we are getting learned and its a learining process till one is 6'' under so let surpport job sharing where its needed,,,,,,,:{

[SIMBA KALI]

Onitl....you too needs some ganja:hmm:
KQ isn't government owned or ran; used to be until in the early 90's but not any more. Have you heard of the KQ's ab-initio programme? If you are a kenyan citizen and didn't qualify; probably you are dumb or psycho to KQ 's standards. Blame that on the dayz when you were snoozing off and day dreaming in class while that poor kid from Mathare slums with straight A's got bonded to the airline's training programme. Lookie here mate, at this point, your opinions are rather pointless, utterly baseless and useless. You might be some kid from Muthaiga or Karen bla bla bla....so you may not understand where am headed with this. The overwhelming number of kenyan pilots, trained both locally and overseas is more than enough to cater to not only KQ but also any and all airlines in Kenya. For Kalpa, its a body to safeguard the honey pot i.e keep employment rights reserved entirely for kenyan pilots which isn't really a bad thing or is it? Rave, rant and whine all you want...Bang your heads all you want :ugh::ugh::ugh: B ut at the end of the day, this is Kenya and shyte will remain the same. And good old Kalpa & KQ shall prosper. Lala salama..:zzz::zzz:

[Nightfire]

Guys, let's calm down again.

It'll get us nowhere if we yell at each other, and verbal abusement won't convince anybody. That's not how professionals should talk to each other, is it.

I understand that point, Simba, that it's extremely hard in Kenya to get a well-paid job, and if you do, then you are the one to feed the rest of your relatives. No doubt about it.

However, I believe that KALPA's true reason to protect the airline from foreigners coming in, is to protect the high salaries of pilots. Anybody working in KQ has the option to leave and to work in Asia or the Middle East, while at the same time knowing that their jobs in Kenya are protected.
So if it is just for feeding your family, then you don't rely solely on KQ.

And if KQ requires experienced airline pilots, then what's wrong with employing them from outside. As I said, we're not talking about young FO's who just come to collect some hours and then run for it.

As for ab-inits: Kids who can afford to pay for the training plus type-rating, are not the kind of guys who have to stand for and support the rest of their family. While ex-military and airline-sponsored trainees anyway have a reserved job to begin with. So they are also taken care of.

The requirement for experienced professionals, regardless of their skin-color or their passport, cannot be met by young start-ups. In fact, I only read an article a few days ago, that KQ is losing a lot of pilots right now.
So how about me wanting to come to KQ instead? I'll work as an instructor, so in fact I'm even going to help train some new pilots.

Truth is: If Kenya Airways wants to stay the pride of Africa (which I believe it still is), then they will have to go international.

[onitl]

simba
what happens when Kq closes shop? thats me question u did not answer that, what are the kenyans gona safe guard if we shutting down doors now!!!!
Are ugandan.s and tanzanian foreiners......,
i might be rich yes so what!!! etc but worked for it but in our comunity we dont despair others its a small world mybe one day you will understand because i still dont understand your point on looking foreiners out.:D

[kotakota]

When Simba kali roars we know what the problem is . This is precisely what Mr Naikuni will be concerned about . People more concerned about themselves than the future of the company.
Waving the name Mugabe around shows some naivety . He maybe the scourge of the white man to many , but he is worse to many of his own people who must now regret voting for him . If a 'Mugabe' did get in power in Kenya , then you can kiss byebye to tourism and KQ as a going concern , so be a little more responsible with your remarks.
Shame we cannot have a balanced forum discussion about this topic without someone waving the race card.

[bushbolox]

Simba Kali,
You are a racist, ill informed ,loudmouth ,inexperienced tw@t. How come you can insult foreigners with overtly racist overtones (wazungu)but if I call you a stupid african with a village mentality Ill get slated for it. Or maybe you're just a nugu.
The "foreigners taking our jobs" is so last decade sonny. Get with the programme. If KQ wants to compete in an international ,market they will have to hire internationally as others do. A legally landed immigrants' status is no concern of KALPAs. They are hiding behind "no foreigners" to protect the cushy number theyare on. The real losers long term are people like you who get shafted by their own people. But then again you are already a loser. Living in the past.
If I come to KQ on a fixed term contract it isnt to steal your jobs, country, or shag your women (see below), its to fill a crewing/training gap in the interim and is used by airlines all over the world. If bigoted zealots like you are still around in todays kenyan youth then God help Kenya.
Dont worry though , after 12 years at wilson ive had enough of prats like you at dambusters ...all chip on shoulder and zero talent, waiting to crash. So lets blame the foreigners.
Word up . Its your own people that are feckin you up not a few contract pilots.
As for getting properly laid in Nairobi. I would rather cut my dick off than have casual sex in the carnivore.. Enough niceties. Its about time you were told. You see I dont have to worry about your cousin in Nyayo hse coming for me anymore because you lost an arguement, so it is what it is, and you are what i said.
Another generation blaming europe for their woes. three generations after they self determined. What a crock.

[onitl]

simba`````
if i may ask are you flying in kenya i guess not so you in states ... good for you i hope you are not blaphing coz if you are then i guess there in no point of discussing issues with you till you mature a bit.
Anyways i thing guys simba kali things KQ is his families back yard company WHAT ashame........
i am kenyan by birth and proud to say i have learnt alot from Muzungus interms of flying which has consolidated my experience i guess wat simba if you good at what you do you should not be intimidated, so i command citation , dah 8 at 30 salary same as 777 capt kq????where has a muzungu bared me from making it??? dude if you one of those F/o's for life who cannot move Then re think your posting before you tell us how frustrated you are in your avaition career talking about mugabe n **** Men u are OLD school, WHO hengs out Panafik,carni is old school dude Get a life:ugh:

[ENGG4LIFE]

Damn, you guys turned this into a war zone. Take it easy. Anyway i really pray for all the engineers at KQ beacause i know that non of the pilots have any financial issues at KQ. Unfortunately there is a lot of segregation, politics and the word KQ loves to use "canvasing" going on not only at KQ but also at wilson airport. So all those of you who are lucky to have "GOD FATHERS" dont go around struting like you are the sh:mad:it. There is a war out there and always keep in mind that the guy you see cleaning or fuelling or even the porter during a transit could have made a much better pilot or engineer than you given the opportunity. You earn respect by giving it.

[Nightfire]

Engg4life, I don't really understand what you are arguing about.

You seem to be upset about the salary-difference between pilots and other personnel. Nobody here is talking about, or is interested in communist stuff about who deserves to be paid more.
Yes, we consider ourselves lucky.
Yes, sorry for maintenance people who earn less.
Sorry for all those other people who earn less.
Now what? Does that make you feel better? Or do you just want to pour oil into the fire here? We're discussing about employment at KQ on this thread.

[onitl]

so i hope we all agree KQ should employ regardless of race colour if its to prosper like any other sucessfull airliner. i think thats the way to go,
So when out there guys its a movement to educate and enlighten everyone racisum etc etc aint helpin anyone so simba kali calm down and lets face facts we need each other. bravo to all for participating and shining light TO THE REAL WORLD:)

[Nightfire]

Well said, brother. :D
We'll see what's going to happen to KQ. I hope the management will make the right decisions.
KQ came a long way since the nineteeneighties, when it was just one big collection of junk, until it became the modern Pride Of Africa of today.
Hopefully, KALPA and Cpt. Mwangi will come to the conclusion, that it's better to keep up with other airlines, than to chose the easy way by sitting back and relaxing.
Corruption has its way much too often in Kenya, helping few but harming many.

[castortroy]

I recently applied for an ab initio traineeship spot with Kenya Airways. I'd greatly appreciate it if any of the previous beneficiaries posted replies on the whole process and training. I've heard that the time frame for a response from KQ could be upto a year. Thanks

[bushbolox]

Simba,
Swahili doesnt have as extensive a vocabulary as other languages so as you know inference and usage is used, so your use of (wa)mzungu in this context and inference was clearly meant in a racist way. Your claims otherwise may fool people on here but not those in the know. Get back in your paranoid clueless talentless chippy village.
I had a great 12 years taking your jobs, blocking the progression of the magendo pilots and encouraging the talented ones.
there are a few more tourists alive to tell the tale as a result. Thanks I had fun, oh i even managed to shag quite a few of your women as well in the days when they were a good shag.
You are welcome to the left overs...nugu. Dont forget your gum boots.

[kotakota]

Is Racism legal in Dallas,Tx these days ?

[SIMBA KALI]

Kotakota......you kidding me right, what do you think :rolleyes:? I will be a very happy man when am back home in kenya where I trully belong. :ok:

[Nightfire]

Simba, why don't you get back to the Carnivore, have another Tusker, dream about some chicks you'd like to have, and admire the fact that you're such a cool guy. And then go to the Florida and enjoy some more of your favorite chicks.
And please just stay there.
Because nobody here in this thread takes your comments serious anymore after that bar-talk you entertain us with. Go on to some government offices and cry, if you like; however, I believe that even the cleaning-lady at Nyayo House is going to laugh at you.
For the future, my advice to you is to read other people's postings PROPERLY, before you start abusing anyone or waste our time with inappropriate and offensive replies.

And you may save yourself the effort to send me yet another answer, because I'm not going to read it.

[Buddhapilot]

Simba Kali, U do your fellow Kenyans a diservice when you open your mouth on this thread! U have completely lost what this thread was about, you opinions on what U think about other nationalities is not needed. Your obviously a very angry person. So you are building time here, believe me, your not doing a job I don't want, because unlike you living off of Daddy's money, I have done all those jobs working up to where I am now! Do us all a favor and lose this thread, go and bother some other forum

[4HolerPoler]

Simba has left the building. For completely unacceptable behavior.

Please carry on with the topic gents.

4HP

[bushbolox]

Right then , back to the topic.

Kalpa are playing a protectionists game but for all the wrong reasons.
This is demonstrated in the fact that more Kenyan nationals are disadvantaged than the small amount of foreigners that may be needed occaisionally on fixed term interim contracts.
When I was resident of 17 years in the region and 12 in Kenya it was impossible for me to think of applying to KQ. However certain people who became citizens were. They were not true citizens, just as foreign as me but willing to pay on many levels. If my immigration status, qualifications are all legal it is pure discrimination.

Now the rub..Fine but you area foreigner some might say. But what about the young lad from the wrong tribe, hes is fecked. TKK still rules and I can move on but the next generation of pilots shouldnt be discriminated against.

If I came back to kenya , it would be as a trainer or short term driver until the available workforce was up to standard or suficient in numbers or both.
The occasional use of foreign crew is not an abdication of sovereignty just an expiditious tactic.
The abuse of the work permit sysytem is the fault of TKK Kalpa should be exposed for the protectionist mafia it is. Protectionist for the wazee that is not Kenyans.

[kotakota]

4HP thanks for letting us have our topic back.

Bushbolox , Could not have put it better myself , but I was resident for 25 years ! I think it would be nice if a few people realised that it is possible for someone who does not hold a Kenya passport to actually love the country where they spent their formative years ie 3-28 !!
I just thought it would be nice to spend my last 2-3 years flying back where I started ,helping KQ continue its great progress ,and find my retirement rondavel at the coast ! Don' t want any more money than anybody else either.
All I want for Christmas...................

[Nightfire]

............. is to come back to NBO! :)

Same as me. I was in Kenya for many, many years. I went to school there, and my best friends live in Nairobi.

My passport is just a piece of paper, but my real home is definitely Kenya. Working for KQ would therefore not be just a job for me, but it would be my "return ticket" to get back.

However, despite good contacts and despite having met Cpt.Ouma and Cpt.Mwangi in person several times, it was simply impossible to get any further. So after 14 years of trying, I'm not giving up, but I have come to realize that I shouldn't expect any miracles to happen.

But anyway: Dear Santa......... ;)

[Nightfire]

Oh dear. Well, since you mention that you need to apply for a visa, I take it that you are not Kenyan.
In this case, this thread should answer your question about becoming a professional pilot in Kenya. Read it, and weep!
There is no chance whatsoever in any East African airline for foreigners, and my advice is to forget about becoming a bush-pilot if you ever want to get into a serious airline later on in your life.

A visa will allow you to live in Kenya, but getting a work-permit (without buying it) is impossible. No respectable company will employ you without it.
Good luck if you want to try anyway, but I'm afraid no-one here can help you. Otherwise, we all would be there now ourselves. :hmm:

But you're welcome to sign our letter to Santa Clause. :ok:

[kotakota]

Nightfire , how things have changed . I could name you 20-30 ex Wilsonites , bush pilots , whatever , who rose through the ranks of many a 'serious' airline such as BA , Cathay , Singapore, Virgin etc , even one who is now THE bwana makubwa of Austrian Airlines .
However , you may be right in that most 'serious' airlines now prefer to adopt , give birth to , mold some automaton/yesman/politically correct twerp ( who sometimes has precious little natural flying ability , something rarely lacking in a bushpilot ) into a company klingon spouting the company line.
You are not allowed to have an opinion or be a 'character' anymore.
Despite flying for a 'serious' airline myself , I have always been proud of , and miss very much those old days at Wilson and Malindi . Most of the klingons I have flown with cannot believe the stories and photos. Many actually regret not having had a 'life' in their career.
Long live the Aero Club.

[Totter driver]

Hey!
felt i should share my opinion,really fed up up of ur carismatick ways,is that spelt right?i speak for my self here we dont need any south african pilaks rocking up tellings us what to do,we cant get a job in the rainbow nation,so why should we catter for you repros,we are very happy and non racist people,but we'llmake sure the jobs are for us first before you!my advise stay were you are or go elsewere,iam sure theres a nation who love to hear africaans more than us,i think the rest Africa:ok: would probably agree,cheers have a castle for us!!!!!:ok::sad:

[Nightfire]

Well, Kotakota, I also learned to fly in Nairobi HKNW a long time ago. Did my first PPL there. Sure, it was great fun, the land is beautiful, the weather always good, there are unique places to fly to, and an empty airspace once you're past the Ngong Hills.
And no doubt do bush pilots know how to handle their aircraft.

But this is nothing to be compared to airline-operations. A heavy jet is not supposed to be handled the same way as a C414 or C208 or B350. Of course you can train (almost) anybody how to adhere to SOPs and to follow rules and regulations, if you invest enough time.
But a bush pilot is not the type of person an airline is looking for. I'm sure British Airways or Virgin Atlantic are not favoring applicants who proudly refer to themselves as "Kenya Cowboys".

Usually, it works the other way round. I know some airline pilots who have left the wide-body in order to work for the GA, for different motivations. One of the reasons, as you have mentioned, is looking for excitement and "real" flying. Which is what you will get.
But the other way round is rare.

It is not the same as in the USA where the normal way is to start in a small company on a turboprop and gradually work your way up.

European and Asian Airlines rather employ some abinitios; CPL-IFR pilots fresh from the flying school with 250 hours of 172-time. You call them "yesmen" and "politically correct twerps". Maybe you are partially right (although this depends on the wanted profile of the HR-department). But whatever: This just supports what I am saying, which is that most airlines are not looking for former safari-adventure-cowboy-carnivore pilots.

With all due respect for people working for MAF, Eagle, Precision Air, etc. - there are many guys who wish they could have the same kind of job. Especially when you're young, have no family, and are free to go wherever you like.

(I was just giving some advice to a newcomer, whose post has just vanished. Maybe he changed his mind.) :confused:

[futurekenyanpilot]

4 the ab initio, u need a bachelors degree. they prefer one in engineering esp aeronautical.then u need a B+ grade in maths, physics,geography,english and overall. they did applicatioins last november.u apply for it next time but continue working on ua aviation degree like i do.my uncle is a captain there on 767 n he tells me the best way is for one to maliza ua degree, then it would be easier for him to hook me up with the chief pilot whos the hiring guru.owise joining them on ua own is hard. lazima ujue atlist one senior captain. so my advice to u is ask even ua parents to uaself make sure u get in touch with a senior captain n be friends with him or even his kids n get to know him for so long as u train. wen u maliza skul he will really help u get the kq job.

[Nightfire]

Yep. That sounds like the normal practice at KQ.