Is the EV 97 Eurostar for real?

[lotman1000]

I'm thinking about going back to basics; grass field, friendly people, good company, don't bother to renew the PPL and the Night, Twin, and IMC ratings, just go for a GST and oral for a NPPL, and join in club activities wholeheartedly.

In short, flying just for fun.

But then I thought, "be nice to go places as well as just fly around, which can get tedious". VFR in daylight is all I need, but along with miniscule fuel burn, reasonable speed over the ground, and absolute reliability.

Impossible; try fishing, I thought.

Then I read about the EV 97 Eurostar and Rotax engines.

Am I right that this aircraft gives me pretty much all I want? It just seems to good to be true.

[DBo]

There is one based at the strip I use. It's a super little aeroplane, however the Microlight version is rather limited if you are of reasonable weight and want to fly with a friend. The homebuilt VLA version has a MAUW about 30kg higher which makes a huge difference.

There are now a large number of Rotax powered aircraft of which many are pretty impressive - however they all have similar features - factory built microlight - rather weight limited, homebuilt group A - fantastic, but only if you like building things.



Dave

[airborne_artist]

As DBo has already hinted at, are you a trim fellow with the build of a racing snake, with similarly built friends, or do you tend towards the well-covered? If you are around 11 stone, with matching friends, and you don't want to use all of the 4.5 hours endurance then you are fine. The aircraft can take two people each weighing 11.5 stone and still take 60l of fuel, I understand.

If you are flying unaccompanied, then fine. The interior is a little sparse, however.

[lotman1000]

Thanks for all that, very valuable.....

Hmmm, I see what you mean about payloads....website "brochure" figures on the factory version give 181Kg fuel + people; fuel max is 65litres = 46Kg approx (usable 60l?), 135kg left, I am NOT a racing snake, that's me and 50 Kg left, if I'm honest about it as I probably will be since it's me that's going.

Still and all, Madame has never really approved of flying small aircraft...Grandson's going to be old enough any day, he's nearly 3, after all; grand-daughter not quite with us yet but will take over the role when the time comes...it's all do-able.

How's the handling, especially field landings (field short, hedge high)? Can you do things like slipping it in etc?

How real are the brochure numbers?

Engine Rotax 912S
Rotax 912
100 HP
80HP
Never exceed airspeed 270 km/h
270 km/h
Maximum level airspeed 245 km/h
245 km/h
Cruising speed 200 km/h
180 km/h
Stall speed 65 km/h
65 km/h
Rait of climb 8,0 m/s
5,5 m/s
Service ceiling 5000 m
Take off roll 100 m
145 m
Take off distance 200 m
280 m
Landing roll 90 m
Landing distance 300 m
Average fuel consumpition 14 l/h
11 l/h
Range 750 km

Sorry table got reformatted in the process of pasting...figures for each engine are no longer in two cols, but above/below each other.

[lotman1000]

Wow, what can I say?


Many thanks for all that. Fantastic!

[xrayalpha]

Eurostar, nice plane.

Others have pointed out the differences between microlight and GA versions - same applies to other contenders like C42 Ikarus etc.

Key thing is power-to-weight ratio - so with 80bhp Rotax 912 or 100bhp 912S you are talking about serious ooomph.

For less than 100 quid, go and have a trial flight in one and see for yourself. The Rotax is like a modern car engine - just switch on and go! I gave up on the start checklist for a Cherokee 140!

If you want free flying, we will be offering 15 mins free in our Ikarus at Strathaven in the new year to anyone with a pilot's logbook - current or not.

Very best,

XA

[Sandy Hutton]

Lottman, the Eurostar is a good little aeroplane, as is the Ikarus but can I point you towards the Tecnam Sierra which also has a Rotax up front. Solid little aeroplane available as factory built or as a kit and there's a retractable version coming along soon.:ok:

[Rod1]

If you go for a VLA you will have no problem. My MCR01 will lift two 90 kg people and carry 4.75 hours of fuel at a speed of 138kn. Stol is very good and handling and visibility are superb. Rotax 912s with CS prop

If you buy a low hours VLA on a PFA permit (MCR01, Pioneer 300, Sportcruser etc) then you can do your own maintenance at around £250 a year all in and it is real fun flying. I got from the Midlands to Wick in 3hours 6 minutes a few months ago, including sitting at 10,000 ft over the mountains (R of C is 1600 fpm +)

Rod1

[IO540]

If buying one of these I would do some research, beyond the UK.

I went to AERO 2007 this summer, Germany, and they had whole hangars full of this stuff. It's obvious this is where all the R&D is going in light aviation. Most seem to be Rotax powered. The Czechs are doing a lot.

A lot of them are more or less fully (though not legally) IFR equipped which gives you a lot of versatility for "imaginative VFR" ;)

[tangovictor]

I learned to fly in a EuroStar, very forgiving easy to fly machine
the microlight version is a bit close to max weight, its not a cramped cockpit,
very cheap to fly & maintain, the seat backs, do get broken, with people using the seat back as a handhold, I can't think of any other problems, I'd have an hours lesson in one, see what you think,
I wasn't particulary fond of the Icarus, I liked the CT, except its high wing, refuelling problems, the Dynamic is the Porsche version of the EV97
try them all

[muffin]

We have an EV97A which is the Group A version of the Eurostar. Identical to the microlight variant except for the addition of an electric fuel pump (which I never actually use apart from priming the carbs on first start up). The advantage is an increase of all up weight up to 480 kg. When we did the permit test flight recently we had to fill the tanks to the brim and put two fairly large people in to get up to max weight, so in practice weight is rarely an issue. Flies superbly and handles like a dream - it is a very easy aircraft to fly. Side slips and short landings no problem.

As mentioned above, the hardest part is actually getting in and out without pulling or pushing anything too hard like the seat backs or the canopy edge. Once you have it, the operating cost is so small that it is almost irrelevant in aviation terms. You can't buy a ready built A version but they do pop up on the second hand market. If you want a go and are near the Midlands, PM me and I will happily oblige. There are now 4 of them within a mile of us.

[jonkil]

Eurostar is an excellent aeroplane.
I fly the 100hp Ikarus C42 and it is also excellent bit of kit.
Can land in 200 metres easily and be airborne in less than 100 metres... on grass !
It is easily maintained and on a Permit to fly... so cost is a lot less than spam cans that deliver similar performance, fuel burn is approx 11 Litres per hour... Mogas...... the Rotax 912 series does not like extended use of Avgas.
Have flown from Southern UK to Ireland without an issue and have toured widely in it... can wholeheartedly reccomend this avenue :ok: ... it is the future of light aviation.
Jon
G-CCCT

[Mariner9]

an electric fuel pump (which I never actually use apart from priming the carbs on first start up

Muffin, it really should be on for take off and landing too. What if your mechanical fuel pump fails at low level? :=

[tangovictor]

non of the EV97 microlight versions have the "extra" fuel pump, and I have never heard of any having a fuel problem

[Mariner9]

With respect TV, thats no reason not to operate a fitted backup system at critical stages of flight.

The fuel pump is not needed to "prime the carbs", as demonstrated by microlight versions without the electric fuel pump which start perfectly satisfactorily. It is there solely as a safety backup and should be used as such.

[Rod1]

Very good idea to use the pump to pressurise the fuel system before the walk round. That way if there is a fuel leek you are going to find it at a “slightly more convenient time” and you can check the fuel return line is operative. Should use it for t/o and landing as well, it will reduce the likelihood of a vaporlock.

Rod1

[tangovictor]

With respect TV, thats no reason not to operate a fitted backup system at critical stages of flight.

The fuel pump is not needed to "prime the carbs", as demonstrated by microlight versions without the electric fuel pump which start perfectly satisfactorily. It is there solely as a safety backup and should be used as such.

I was only pointing out, that, no microlights, fitted with Rotax engines, that I'm aware of, have the extra fuel pump, I can see the backup therory, but, where does that end ?

[xrayalpha]

TV,

Our Ikarus (microlight) has a extra fuel pump.

Gerry Breen's X-Air in the Algarve has a fuel pump on its Jabiru.

Very best,

Colin

ps Can't think of any weighshifts with extra fuel pumps

[muffin]

I must admit that I have wondered what the PFA's reasoning was to require the electric pump to be fitted on the A version but allow the microlight version to be built as a kit under their auspices without one. Perhaps the extra 30 kilos needs more fuel to be pumped? Come to that why does the microlight need a noise certificate but the A doesn't? Both versions are very quiet aircraft by the way.

[airborne_artist]

How about the Dynamic WT9 (http://www.chiltern.aero/page.php?page=Dynamic%20WT9#specs)? Cruising speed of 119kts, empty weight 259Kg

http://www.chiltern.aero/content/photos/scaled/10.jpg

[Rod1]

The micro version has to comply with section S that does not require a back up pump. The VLA version is cleared to CS-VLA with requires a pump unless gravity feed is so good that one is not required.

If you compare a micro version of the same aircraft with a VLA you will not come down on the side of the micro. For example;

MCR01 ULC (the fastest micro in the world) the kit is £4k more expensive than the Club

Empty weight 250Kg MTOW 450kg Useful load 200 kg

Cruising speed of 120kts on 15lph

MCR01 Club (a VLA)

Empty weight 253Kg MTOW 490kg Useful load 237 kg

Cruising speed of 138kts on 15lph

Rod1

[xrayalpha]

Muffin wrote:

Come to that why does the microlight need a noise certificate but the A doesn't?

XA replies:

Perhaps that's why we microlighters think we are the future of sportflight?

Let's keep it quiet, let's use cheaper mogas, let's have carb heat that works without stopping the donkey (or even design the aircraft so it doesn't need carb heat, like the Ikarus!)

I know that historically microlights were so noisy - think scooter with silencer removed! - that we had regs imposed.

But now we are reaping the benefit of that, while German hush kits are illegal on Cessnas over here!

With the NPPL SEP medical modelled on the old microlight medical, and now about to become an EU standard, it looks like there are other good things that microlight guinea pigs are doing.

Very best,

XA

[BackPacker]

What you should do is get about a years worth of back issues of Flyer magazine. With the proposed EASA changes in aircraft licensing and flight crew licensing, there is now a whole range of manufacturers producing two-seaters, all to the same specs. Most are composite, use a Rotax 912 or 912S, have a usable load for two adults, some baggage, and four hours fuel, and cruise at somewhere between 110 and 130 knots on 14-17 liters per hour.

Flyer magazine seems to be on a testing spree, wanting to flight test them all... :D

Anyway, some of the names that almost caused me to rob my savings account:
Aquila A210
Funk Fk14 (soon to be Cirrus SRS)
MCR01
Cessna 162 SkyCatcher (admit this didn't make my heart beat faster, but you've got to include it in the list)
Tecnam (various models)
Aero AT-3
Diamond Katana (or whatever it's called today)

Some of these are legal to fly right now, some will become legal to fly under new EASA rules. And some are delivered in various variants: microlight, VLA, LSA, Group A.

And while I'm on that topic, does anybody know of a good overview of the different categories of airplanes (microlight, VLA, LSA, Group A, ...) and what license is required to fly any of these?

[KeyPilot]

If the Eurostar impresses, the Dynamic truly blows away!

I have flown a Eurostar for about 4 hours, however a friend of mine has recently bought a Dynamic and I would say the difference is about as great as between a Ford Mondeo and a Porsche 911 - SERIOUSLY!

The Eurostar: great little aeroplane for training and covering short disctances, good control harmony, very benign and forgiving. "Functional" appearance. Finish level pretty high, however (as someone else noted) certain parts prone to snapping off in one's hand!

The Dynamic: basically it's just as easy to fly, just as forgiving but (a) is about 20kt faster (more with the soon-to-be-released 100HP version) (b) looks 1000% sexier and (c) has an amazingly robust construction and a finish level which is... well, the Porsche comparison is a valid one. Oh yes and when you look at the Eurostar's wing skin it ripples in flight - most disconcerting - and none of that with the Dynamic's composite construction.

My advice: don't get a Eurostar until you've looked at the Dynamic. It might be 40% more expensive but imho it's well, well worth it. And yes it is available factory built (I think it's actually the most recently approved UK microlight but I'm sure someone else will confirm or deny that!).

KP

[tangovictor]

yes it is, I learnt to fly in a EV97, and having tried most available microlights in the UK, also brought a Dynamic.

[BackPacker]

Microlight - NPPL(M), CAA PPL(M) or JAA/CAA PPL(A) with differences sign off
VLA - JAA/CAA PPL(A), NPPL(SSEA)
LSA - FAA PPL SEL, FAA Sport Pilot, FAA Recreational Pilot - all USA only
"Group A" - JAA/CAA PPL(A), NPP(SSEA)


That's partially what I was looking for. Thanks. But also, what about medical? And what are the different weight, speed, certification limits of a Microlight, VLA and Group A aircraft?

[tangovictor]

BP i see your in Holland, so the UK weight restriction and medical etc wouldn't apply,
ie the Euro Dynamic is 550kg I believe, 450 here
http://www.bmaa.org/default.asp
has all the answers

[Rod1]

“And what are the different weight, speed, certification limits of a Microlight, VLA and Group A aircraft?”

A micro is restricted to a MTOW of 450kg, but no restriction on speed or complexity other than an empty basic weight, which I think, is around 260kg for most Rotax powered machines. Machines in this category are checked against the section S design code. Aircraft can be factory built or kit built.

A VLA is in the category 450kg to 750kg and has no performance restriction and no basic weight limit. It would have qualified as a “group A” aircraft if this term was still in use, and does qualify as a single engine piston land SEP (land). Aircraft in this category are tested against the CS-VLA design code, and both factory built and kit built aircraft are available. Most designs are however only available as kits, but low hour versions are regularly sold so no need to build your own if you do not want to. If you have a home built you can maintain it yourself which saves a lot of cash. My MCR is costing less than £250 per year all in for maintenance. At the top end it is normal for VLA’s to have CS/VP props and in some cases disappearing Dunlops. The props make a big difference, but I am less convinced about the advantage of the retractable gear.

Gorup A is, I think, an outdated term (but I still use it). I think it has been replaced by several other EASA / JAA terms such as SEP (Land). This is for light aircraft beyond 750kg.

LSA is an American standard, which has no standing in Europe. It is for aircraft up to 600kg, with a speed limit of 120kn and no “complexity” such as VP props or disappearing Dunlops. Aircraft in this category, which are being sold in Europe, get re-examined against CS-VLA.

There is a move to create a European LSA, which is likely to keep many of the freedoms allowed under VLA rules, but lowering the requirements for factory manufacture and possibly a Euro version of the NPPL to allow you to learn to fly them at less cost.

Rod1

[KeyPilot]

TV - the microlight/ultralight weight limit is 450kg across the whole EU - this is enshrined in EU law (so called "Annex II" aircraft derogated from European control)

Rod1 - a few "nuances" missing in your otherwise very helpful review:


VLA is not for 450kg to 750kg, it's for 0 to 750kg
All kits (other than those produced by Approved factories, of which there are very few) have a minimum 500 hour/51% owner build time
Group A and SEP(Land) are synonymous (or however you spell it!) - the next certification code is "Part 23", and this again is not just for aircraft above 750kg but from 0 upwards
There isn't really a move towards a Euro-LSA, it seems to be fizzling out into possibly a (slightly) liberalised VLA
The original question also asked about "certification" limits:


Microlights are examined to BCAR Section S (or a mixture of Section S and the hard bits of VLA for fast ones like the Dynamic) - this is a very rigorous code, but allows day VFR only
VLA is a bit tougher than Section S and again is day VFR only
Part 23 is tougher again and allows night and IFR
LSA is very similar to VLA but, crucially, manufacturers self-declare compliance! Caveat emptor!!
KP

[BackPacker]

Thanks everyone.