ASIC card renewals

[Fuzzy Bear]

Hi Guys,
I haven't been on pp for a while and I'm not sure if anybody has touched on the matter of ASIC renewals. I not complaining about having to get one in the first place but I think it's an absolute rip off paying the $196 every two years because we need a "criminal check", well! That’s what the lovely lady at the department told me. You don't have to change anything on a passport for ten years so why do we put up with this crap and what about all the guys and girls who fly in internationally? Do they need to go through all this rot?
All the boys at our employment are writing a letter to our local member telling him to pass the message on that the powers to be can get stuffed and stop taking our money, I urge you to do the same.:ok:

[Crosshair]

I've posted before that I'm not bothering to renew mine (I'm mostly a hobbyist PPL who flies for business a few times a year).

At country airfields at least, no one ever checks, and the old one looks good at a distance.

At capital city airports, they'll usually accept that your renewal is pending if you show them some other ID.

[Islander Jock]

At country airfields at least, no one ever checks, and the old one looks good at a distance.

Really smart advice to give on a professional website - NOT!:=

Yes you might get away with it at regional airports, you will probably also get away with it at a capital city airport. But don't go crying when you are locked on the other side of the fence looking at your aircraft parked on the apron.

I don't like this ASIC business any more than anyone else here. However as as an airport manager, myself and all other airport staff have a responsibility to enforce the DOTARS legislation no matter how flawed, ineffective or unnecessary we may feel that it is.

you can get ASICs cheaper than $196. I have heard that Aviation ID Australia are doing them for substantially less. THe thing that pushed up the cost of the cards was the transition from AFP doing the security checks at $49ea to Auscheck (AGs Dept) at $86 ea. They are however a bit faster in turning the request around and usually an issuing body will receive the response within 5 working days. The ony delay then is actually getting the card printed. Another good reason to use Aviation ID Aust as they are one of the few bodies Australia wide that have their own, "mega expensive" printing machine.

[Fuzzy Bear]

thanks for the comments boys, all we are suggesting is that the renewal be stretched out to at least five years to cut the cost and stuffing around. As Australians we are the most sensible people in the world and all because 9/11 we are paying for it, for what? Can anyone tell me how many other countries in the world are doing this sort of thing? I believe your current card is not recognised when reapplying for a renewal without a drivers licence birth certificate and so on which is crazy.Anyway,looks like we are beating our heads against the wall again!:ugh:

[Capt Hollywood]

There is some common sense left in Aus though. A safety/security officer let onto a major airport recently to collect an aircraft that I had to fly home. Not unusual you say except that it wasn't my aircraft and I'd left my ASIC at home. The bit that tested the officer though was the fact that I had a big set of bolt cutters with me as there was a lock on the controls that I had to remove! I showed my drivers licence, he took down my details and let me in and watched me take to the padlock with the bolt cutters!

[Bell_Flyer]

However as as an airport manager, myself and all other airport staff have a responsibility to enforce the DOTARS legislation no matter how flawed, ineffective or unnecessary we may feel that it is.

This statement really makes me sad.

[topend3]

All the boys at our employment are writing a letter to our local member telling him to pass the message on that the powers to be can get stuffed and stop taking our money, I urge you to do the same.

you can write all the letters you want but it wont do jack****. Just grow up and pay the money like everyone else does. And if you choose not to wear it I hope the AFP pick you up at a capital city airport, the fine is $550...

[Capt SFB]

G'day All,

In my current position, we are now required to have an MSIC as well as an ASIC. The cost of the MSIC is about the same, the security check is identical and the only reason we went for a new security check was that using the ASIC check would mean that our MSIC would expire at the same time as the ASIC, in my case 04/08. The MSIC is valid for 5 yrs and my next ASIC can use my MSIC security check. Figure that one out DOTARS !!!!

Phew, that was a mouthful......

Cheers,
SFB

[werbil]

Capt SFB,

What is a MSIC?

W

[Flying Binghi]

After reading all this, Osama must laugh himself to sleep :rolleyes:

[Lasiorhinus]

Werbil,

As you;d expect, a Maritime Security Identification Card :ugh:

[Capt SFB]

Werbil,

As Lasiorhinus says an MSIC is the maritime equivalent iof an ASIC, required if you need to be inside the fence at Australian commercial ports, on Australian registered ships (don't know what the cutoff size is) or on offshore installations in Australian waters (read oil rigs and platforms, etc.). They are cracking down on rotary wing aircrew in offshore and MPT operations.

Cheers,
SFB

[Crosshair]

After reading all this, Osama must laugh himself to sleep

Oh, probably!

Let's all remember to maintain an appropriately high level of fear at all times. Thanks for reminding us.

[toronto_flyer]

Got my ASIC (Renewal) done by Aviation ID Australia, took less than a week from filling out the application to having the ASIC in my hand. Cost was around $150, I highly recommend them! :D

toronto_flyer

[deanojj]

Are ASIC cards good for anything else?
ie. getting though security at domestic quicker?

[Pharcarnell]

Mine expires 01/08 so I thought I'd better give them some lead time. Applied/paid for about 16th Sep................................
Waiting......waiting.......waiting........
and my security clearances have always been a real bastard cos of previous places of work, secret and better so they take for ever to get back.
You'd think cos of previous history they'd be easier as you do more of them NOT more difficult and take longer to sort out.

[Lasiorhinus]

Are ASIC cards good for anything else?
ie. getting though security at domestic quicker?

Yeah, they're good for getting staff discount at food outlets in the terminal building!:E:E



PS, Werbil, my ":ugh:" before was aimed at the concept of requiring MSICs, ASICs and other nonsense, NOT at your question!

[werbil]

Lasiorhinus

:ok: - I didn't think it was that stupid a question - appreciate the last post.

W

[galdian]

For interest I emailed Aviation ID Australia 4-5 weeks ago to confirm, as per their website, it appears the only people who can certify documents are pretty well JoP's whilst through CASA can be a whole lot more - including the local postmaster who did my passport 6 months ago.

I am assuming they received my email (didn't bounce back) but no reply.

Regardless of pricing differences (which seems to have narrowed in the last few months) to a similar cost, having looked at local JoP's it's all to hard to find one; on that basis alone I'll do mine through CASA and certified by my local postmaster.

By no means commenting on the efficiency (or otherwise) of any one organisation, just commenting on it seems far easier/more options to certify the paper trail with CASA.

If I have mistaken/missed something regarding Aviation ID Australia certainly would appreciate info.

Cheers :ok:

[Continental-520]

You know, this is the sort of stuff that really makes you wonder where it is all going to end. Regardless of where it does, it will all come to a crashing halt one day whether we all renew, wear and pay for asics or not.

I had an experience recently which took the little respect I had for these things away. The card issuing office at Perth Airport, operated by WAC or whatever they're called this week appear to want to make an ASIC application the most difficult, bureaucratic and nonsensical experience as it can conceivably be. It was easier, simpler, and quicker to get my initial ASIC issued two years ago (through CASA, to their credit) when everyone had to get one quickly when they first became mandatory than what it was to get mine renewed at Perth Airport.

Despite explaining to the smiley dolls behind the desk that I already held an ASIC previously, apparently this was not sufficient to satisfy them that I had any idea of airport security, and therefore I was required to sit their own home made "Security Induction". Yay. Luckily, they offer this facility on the internet, so you can run it in the background while you do other stuff on your
PC which actually has some importance.

So effective was the induction, that even without watching/listening to their fantastic presentation, I passed the quizz at the end with a mark of 100% which then produced a 'certificate' which had to be presented to the service minded chicks at the WAC office, who then tell me that despite my employer paying the processing fee, I have to fork out a "$50 security card deposit".

"Oh, ok. Yeah sure. Just invent whatever fee you like and slap that on as you see fit." Pfft.

Now, bear in mind that I am actually all for heightening airport security, but without taking it to a level where it becomes a waste of time.

Given the above rigmarole, maybe we should have a look at what the ASIC actually gives us:

1) Exemption from security screening? NO.
2) Clearance through all airside areas? NO.
3) Access through airside entry points that aren't controlled by your employer? NO.

So, really, it means nothing, does it? Yet, we pay these ridiculous fees and get screened every day when we go to work, when, as flight crew, we have a pretty big weapon in our hands if we really want to hurt people.

Each time I get frisked, I smile as I recall an occasion where I was stopped by one of these frankenstein's for having a metal pen in my shirt pocket, and he was taking a close look at it before he told me he'd "let it through this time", when the bag in my hand had just been X-rayed with a Leatherman Tool which had been inadvertantly left in it. There you have it, airport security at its best.

This is all just a knee-jerk reaction and a method of keeping the unemployment figure low. DoTARS ought to be ashamed of themselves, frankly.



520.

[Biggles_in_Oz]

From the latest ASIO report to parliament http://asio.gov.au/Publications/Content/CurrentAnnualReport/pdf/ASIOAnnualReport0607.pdf
no adverse or qualified security assessments were issued in relation to checking for counter-terrorism security checking during 2006-2007, although 50 detailed investigations were initiated
That was from a total of 134981 checks, (36338 ASIC and 81780 MSIC).

Bah.... I still believe that the expanded ASIC/MSIC checks are ineffectual and were done for political reasons.

[av8trflying]

I have a question that hopefully someone may no the answer too.

If i work at an airport and have a AUS Asic issued to me, and then i go and get a casual job as a pilot with a totally different company flying on my days off, can i use my original Asic or do I have to get a second one?

Thoughts?

[bentleg]

If i work at an airport and have a AUS Asic issued to me, and then i go and get a casual job as a pilot with a totally different company flying on my days off, can i use my original Asic or do I have to get a second one?

Cant see any reason why not.

[Wing Root]

How long after CASA rips the $186 out of your credit card did you see your renewed ASIC? They did this fairly quickly after they got the application so I'm guessing I still have a while to wait. First time round they waited about 5 months and then called me to get my current card details as mine had expired in the meantime. :ugh:

[deckchair]

Spoke with Aviation ID Australia, quoting $182 and 4 weeks to process.
CASA are outsourcing work through them which suggests to me they would be under pressure from CASA not to go to market with any better deals.

Rip off all around.

[emu787]

Well you may have read my previous posts regarding the ASIC.....21 million passengers carted INTO and OUT OFF Australia last year by foreign CREW who ARE NOT REQUIRED to have an ASIC or indeed a background check etc.

They are only required by DOTARS TSA Regs to be IN UNIFORM and DISPLAY a company issued ID card....sorry NO background checks.....NO ASIO checks....NO AFP checks....NO CASA checks....NO AUSchecks.....NO ICAO checks....NO WAC or whatever checks....etc etc etc...not even a DOTARS check...absolute rubbish is what your ASIC Card is and its all the same format regardless of job and its on the Internet to the mm to be copied!!!!!! Conned.

Do not let anybody bull**** to you that this company issued ID card for foreign crew is special...it costs about ten bucks and is usually valid for ten years....done by the company pure and simple.

If these panranoic morons (bull****ters) want to do checks by themselves behind the scenes....like a bank does when you apply for a loan....then let them and they can pay for it....

Utter utter utter bull**** AND THEY KNOW IT....DOTARS etc etc etc.

Two things you can do....bend over and take it or write thousands of letters to your Federal Member or have a NATIONAL NO ASIC day and when the serving Minister leaves Parliament House for the last time(yes he would be sacked) he can tell the Australian Public WHY only international planes flew that day carting tens of thousands of passengers carted by crew WITH NO BLOODY ASIC !!!!!! and they are big planes.

SO you might ask, what is the hidden agenda......the new booze regs?...if you are wearing an ASIC you will be tested...or is it a back door entry to the national ID card being pushed quietly behind the scenes by a soon to be finished PM?....I really wonder but it has NOTHING and I mean NOTHING to do with Aviation Security or National Security because...yes I am going to say it again...21 million PAX carted by crew with NO ASIC.......what a bloody joke

In the heart of Europe....just a company issued ID card and for TOPEND3 :=you need to really get out there mate and see the real world.....did you pay for it or did you get reimbursed....$196 buys a lot of stuff at K-Mart for the kids!!!!

At the end of the day....its up to YOU....I thought we were a democratic country!!!!:ugh:

[Lasiorhinus]

it has NOTHING and I mean NOTHING to do with Aviation Security or National Security

Of course it does. It let the government say to the public "Look! We're doing SOMETHING!. Not necessarily anything useful, but at least it's something!"

[Fuzzy Bear]

Nice reply topend3. By the sounds of it you were caught without you're ASIC card and were not able to pay the fine, what's the problem,have to spend the night in the clink with louie the big fijian?

[airmuster]

OK you security minded zealots:-

I have been chartered to fly to Mt Augustus in a C208 to pick up some pax who would like to do a spot of fishing at YCAR.
I pick them up with some luggage for which I am told are fishing rods. No problem so far, apart from the fact that they are real big heavy duty dudes.
An uneventful flight back to YCAR and upon landing find that the RPT flight from Perth is sitting on the tarmac. No problem still, but my pax are getting a little anxious to land.
I pull up not far from the terminal and notice the refueler has just disengaged his hoses and upon driving away, the air hostess walks over to the terminal to usher out the pax for the awaiting F50.
I get out of my a/c, and help my pax to disembark.

SUDDENLY ALL HELL BREAKS LOOSE

My pax get real nasty and king hit me to never never land, grab their fishing rods, which turn into ak47's (or whatever grabs your fancy) walk steadily towards and up the flight steps of the F50, into the cockpit (which door is sometimes left open because of hot temperatures in NW of WA) and take control of the a/c. "fly us to Rottnest"

This begs my question, (sorry to be drawn out), but why do we have to abide by this ASIC and security crap when it can be so so easily breached.
If you look at places like YCAR, YMEK,TPBO and YBRM etc the "security fencing" is ridiculous. Just look about 100 metres or so from the main terminal and it turns into a sheep fence and some are poor at that. And some of these locations use F100's and bigger(YBRM), which us GA jocks have to steer clear of for 30 minutes before and after they depart (so I've heard)...... such crap. Look at YSHK, even a sheep would loose its wool from laughing so much at the security fence here..... and its NEW.
IF the government is REALLY serious about airport security and protecting the citizens from the terrorists, then don't f#ck around with half measures, and really send the industry into financial ruin.

Once when the ASIC cards first came out, I was passed off as Qantas Crew at Perth and was about to be allowed through into their inner sanctums when I asked if they (security) were really aware of what I was wearing. I had used it for ID purposes for ticket collection.

SO WHY ARE WE LETTING ALL THIS HAPPEN TO US....... ITS INDEED NOT DESIGNED TO PROTECT US

Cheers... I feel better now
AM

[Walrus 7]

Airmuster,

We all know the ASIC is rubbish and merely an excuse for the government to collect more money. The idiocy goes even further, when you realise that an ASIC is only required to get airside from landside, not to get airside from airside. Therefore a pilot with nefarious intent could easily fly into YMML or YSSY from some tiny ALA and wreak havoc on the tarmac.

Apparently it's OK to do that, but if you want to drive your bomb to the airport, well, that's just unacceptable.

If you are in an electorate that has changed hands, I would say now is the time to take up the attack again. And one thing you might ask is why the JCPA inquiry into airport security did not recommend that the security requirements be appropriate to the risk when almost every submission recommended this. And copy your note to Tony Smith, MP for Casey, as he was the chairman who signed-off on the recommendations.

Walrus

[Islander Jock]

Airmuster,
which us GA jocks have to steer clear of for 30 minutes before and after they depart (so I've heard)...... such crap

Yes that is crap :=

30mins prior to arrival and departure applies to Jet RPT services. GA are not stopped from operating during these periods, they are however required to submit to passenger screening if departing from the same apron as the RPT service.

From my experience, a lot of these frustrations are not so much the compliance issues but the fact that DOTARS have failed miserably in getting the required information out to the GA industry. On the other hand, pilots perhaps reading ERSA entries and notices clearly written on access gates would go a long way towards avoiding a lot of the grief that occurs especially at regional airports.

[I spy]

Maybe you could pay for your ASI(C) Card using money withdrawn from the AT(M) Machine with your PI(N) Number????

Sorry, just a pet peeve….along with 3rd person radio calls

[tomcat264]

The max penalty of being airside without your ASIC is $550 but the maximum penalty for being airside with NO ASIC and without a VALID reason is $10,000!!!!!!!