CPL exams, FI rating - will you lose the exams?

[G_STRING]

Wondering if someone who knows can help.

My brother is a PPL, and has been for a number of years. He has always wanted to instruct, and feels that the time is right now, after being made unemployed recently.

The problem is as follows. He can't get a class one, due to medical issues, but we know that if he gets the CPL writtens and does an FI course, he can instruct legally, (but not be paid), under a class two medical.

The issue is, what happens to him three years down the line, after completing the CPL exams? Because he's unable to get a full CPL, ie, the flight training, but CAN get the FI rating, will he lose the exams after this time?

I've always assumed that the exams are void after three years if a CPL isn't isued, but what about the above scenario, given that it is a legal way through the system.

Don't think this has been addressed on Pprune before, so hope somebody can be of help.

[BlueRobin]

Has he not considered a route in a deregulated sector such as microlights?

[G_STRING]

Considered, yes, but due to various factors, (the main one cost, followed by available work), needs to be in the position of teaching PPL students.

To instruct microlight, you have to own the aircraft to start with, which is, unfortunately, unrealistic at this stage.

It seems to me that regulation is crazy regarding flight training

[18greens]

How do you instruct on a class 2 medical? I always thought you needed a class 1 - have I been wasting my money?

Re the exams, after 3 years you won't be able to get a CPL but you won't have to retake them to continue instructing.

['India-Mike]

Can instruct on a class 2 but remuneration not allowed, hence no point in having a CPL (LASORS Sec H1.1 'Remuneration', p.3) - PPL(H) exemption pre 1/1/2000.

I wonder if there's anyone like that out there....

[FlyingForFun]

My first thought was that you are right, he would lose his CPL exams after 3 years, but his FI rating would still be valid. Since he will never be able to get a CPL, loosing his exams makes no practical difference to him.

My second thought, though, was that I'm not 100% sure of this, it's got to be an unusual situation. I think (as for any unusual situation) he'll probably need to speak to the CAA for a definitive answer.

FFF
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[G_STRING]

thanks for replies

Wasn't aware that it was an unusual situation, I thought quite a few people who couldn't get a class one and wanted to instruct went down this route.

What is unusual, is that given it can be the situation for some people, is that I've never seen it discussed on here before, so it's interesting to see what people have to say.

Is BEagle around?? He seems to know a lot about rules and regulations, and we'd be grateful for a reply

[BEagle]

Yes, getting a bit too round for my liking these days. Too much 'day job' time pecking away at PCs and living in hotels and not enough flying except as an airline passenger (130 times in the last 12 months...:sad:)!

Anyway, passing the CPL exams is one of the prerequisites for starting the FI course; you don't need to take them again to renew a lapsed FI Rating (unless you never took them in the first place under the 'old' pre-Eurocracy rules and your FI rating has also lapsed by 5 years or more).

However, as a PPL holder, you can indeed instruct on a Class 2 Medical, but you may not be remunerated for such instruction. Microlight and/or SLMG instruction is, however, a different matter.

Whether you can instruct for no remuneration as a CPL holder if your Class 1 lapses, but Class 2 privileges are still valid, I am not sure.....I don't see why not. But you certainly may not be paid as a CPL holder with a lapsed Class 1.

LASORS is your friend - download it and study section H1!!

[G_STRING]

Many thanks BEagle. Wish I was as well informed

[DFC]

To instruct on microlights you do not need to own one.

Yes some of the flexwing schools operate on this basis however, the 3 axis ones especially the bigger ones own their own aircraft or the members do - share scheme etc.

Microlight instruction is better paid than UK JAR-PPL instruction with a CPL.

Modern microlights out perform most of the UK trainng fleet and are great fun to fly.

Recomend that your friend contacts the BMAA and checks out schools offering instructor courses and ask them for the costs and possible vacancies.

The reason why Microlight instruction is better paid is because most of the people doing it are not hour building and thus are not in the "I will fly cheaper than everyone else if you give me a job" brigade.

As a PPL holding JAR instructor, the student can not pay for the training and this causes problems when you want to fly for an organisation that has a mix of CPL (wanting to be paid) and PPL (can't be paid) instructors.

Imagine someone arriving at your place of employment and doing your job for free....get the idea?

Regards,

DFC

[BlueRobin]

What proportion of Group A schools utilise PPL instructors? I think it odd that without the traditional carrot and stick of pay and contract respectively, an employer may get into problems motivating and disciplining the staff accordingly. Put it another way, if I'm not being paid to work, why should I turn up to work on time, put in 100% or work those extra hours? Altruism and quid pro quo can only go so far.

[foxmoth]

if I'm not being paid to work, why should I turn up to work on time, put in 100% or work those extra hours?

Anyone instructing under these circumstances is usually doing it purely because they want to do it so motivation is not a big problem for these guys.:cool:

[xrayalpha]

G-STRING,

You don;t have to own the microlight, but many instructors do since it is a way of boosting income.

It is all down to risk and reward and small enterprise, so if you take the risk (and responsibility) of looking after your machine, you make more money. If someone else does it, they make the cash. (you can do most work on a microlight yourself).

As for cost, there is a Thruster on Ebay at £1500 fixed price, with a spare engine.

All you need is the rating, a field and a caravan!

Very best,

XA