Landing in a field

[Sam Rutherford]

I know that for helicopters, owners permission and a call to the police and you are good to land pretty much anywhere.

What's the score with a STOL aeroplane?!

Have thumbed through my old air law books, and trawled internet but haven't found anything.

Thanks for any replies!

Sam.

[scooter boy]

You don't even need to call the police (unless they own the field or you plan to land directly from abroad).
You just need the landowners permission.
SB

[Sam Rutherford]

...in an aeroplane, you are sure?!

Sam.

[J.A.F.O.]

What's it got to do with anybody apart from you and the landowner?

Though calls to local plods and D&D to save them the bother of coming to drag you from the supposed wreckage might be in order depending where you are.

[ATR42300]

One has to ensure you are covered by Insurance for landing at unlicensed strips!

[stiknruda]

Sam,

It is generally a good idea to survey the field on foot prior to landing. Mole drains, uneven surfaces, etc are not too easy to spot when committed at 10'.

Farmers have even been known to put livestock in the field that you intend to land on..............

It is great fun, I do it frequently!


Stik

[Saab Dastard]

Farmers have even been known to put livestock in the field that you intend to land on..............

It is great fun, I do it frequently!

Stik, I am sure you didn't mean it (or do it), but that reads like you are one of those farmers, deliberately planting cattle in the path of a landing aircraft to catch them out!!:eek: ;)

SD

[Jodelman]

But don't do it in France!!

[Radar]

Hey, SD.


Don't knock it . There's no telling how some folks get their kicks :}

[old,not bold]

I would imagine that there's not much difference in law between landing a glider in a field and landing a powered aircraft, graduating up through microlights to light aircraft designed with that in mind.

Operational suitability is of course another issue altogether.

When did a glider pilot last call the Plod to get permission to land? They often, so I'm told, land without even asking the landowner first! That's wrong, of course; simple courtesy dictates that they should call first (with a loudhailer) and climb away if refused.

[ronnie3585]

When did a glider pilot last call the Plod to get permission to land? They often, so I'm told, land without even asking the landowner first! That's wrong, of course; simple courtesy dictates that they should call first (with a loudhailer) and climb away if refused.

In a glider?

[The Flying Pram]

I've done it many times. The only downside (as someone I know found out) is if a "well meaning" local phones Plod. My friend's son made a precautionary landing since he was unhappy with the way his engine was behaving. He did an initial pass to confirm the field was suitable, then landed, and taxied over to the adjacent farm. He spoke to the farmer who was quite happy and even offered to help him move it out of the field. Next thing the local emergency services (all 3!) turn up, sirens blaring, and he is told in no uncertain terms that it is now a "Crime Scene". He was even threatened with arrest!!.
It took a phone call to another pilot who happens to be a serving police officer to de-fuse the situation. I told them to make an official complaint to the police, but I believe they didn't bother in the end. Hardly inspires confidence does it?

[gasax]

Don't assume for one minute that the police actually know the law - certainly not in the areas we are talking about.

A couple of months ago I had every on duty policeman within 30 miles turn up at the strip, sirens blazing. I was quietly washing the aircraft down when I found myself surrounded.

Turned out a 'concerned member of the public' had seen a plume of smoke from a bonfire, my aircraft landing, put two and two together, got a number much bigger than 4 and raised the alarm.

The gentlemen in blue uniforms (5 off in number with 3 vehicles) had deserted their patrol and stations and arrived at the potential disaster scene. They were somewhat disappointed that the anticipated days worth of overtime did not materialise. To assuage that disappointment they tried to make their visit worthwhile by inspecting the premises, my vehicles and discussing aeronautical law. Much like the thread starter they 'knew' lots of things, few of which were actually true.

It all ended reasonably well, if only because I could quote chapter and verse of the relevant legislation and my previous contacts with offical bodies notifying them of the strip's existance. Of course if one of my tyres had been short of tread it might have been different........

[Sam Rutherford]

That's great - must try that out.

'Not in France' - why not?!

I actually live in Belgium, so am particularly interested in the possibilities here.

Thanks for all the great replies. Sam.

[Monocock]

There are no issues with this at all as long as you are insured and the person who owns/farms the land has granted permission.

I frequently put the T-Craft into stubble fields when combines are rolling and have been known to deliver fish and chips and (weak) lager to the drivers on long summer evenings.

Only do it in a suitable type and by that I mean something that was designed to take the punishment that some fields offer at 45 mph.

[old,not bold]

Quote:
When did a glider pilot last call the Plod to get permission to land? They often, so I'm told, land without even asking the landowner first! That's wrong, of course; simple courtesy dictates that they should call first (with a loudhailer) and climb away if refused.
In a glider?Well, Ronnie, I can see that you are doubtful. How it works is, once you've restowed the loudhailer in its proper stowage location in the glider, and then checked carefully above and behind, you have to generate a very large amount of wind, while flying in a tight circle. As you do this, and you will of course have been using the appropriate diet for several days in case of need, you will hear and/or see your various varios indicating that you have started to gain height, due to the fact that you have created your own thermal. From then on, it's plain sailing. You maintain the climb in your own thermal, while of course continuing to supply its source, until you have sufficient height to find reach another field.

Once there, you recommence the whole process of using the loud hailer to request landing permission. The inevitable loss of height as your respondent goes indoors to ask his boss what to say is why you have to use the Self-Generated Thermal procedure to regain height in the event of a refusal, fly to another field, and so ad infinitum or until it gets dark (whichever comes first) when you can land without anyone seeing you.

Does that clear it up?

[Saab Dastard]

OnB,

It is not safe to fly with your tongue inserted that far - into your cheek, I mean :O.

;)

SD

[SNS3Guppy]

Be careful with assuming you're legal and safe with only the land owner's permission. Local jurisdiction my not take kindly to operating close to other structures or congested areas.

[WorkingHard]

The thing that strikes me about some of the above posts is the level of "control" that is expected from various "authorities". In the open FIR and with the permission of the property owner who else needs to get involeved? Why do we need insurance for this? (I know we need it any way but not for this purpose alone). SN3Guppy, if landing or taking off then within reason the proximity does not apply etc etc. Get some freedom into your minds and enjoy the open skies. I often go for a "tour" and neither ask for anything nor speak to anyone.

[J.A.F.O.]

Well said, WH. I repeat my original point:

What's it got to do with anybody apart from you and the landowner?

OnB

you have to generate a very large amount of wind

With an unexpected landing out in a field that wouldn't be a problem.

[x10ge]

Gents
Just a snippet I remembered from the BGA website.
Glider pilots have been requested to inform D&D if they land out and intend to leave the glider out in a strange place. The number is 01895426150 and the reason given is that a helicopter was scrambled to a 'reported crash' in poor weather. Saves time and money and the request was originated by D&D themselves. Posted below.
John
I've tried that thermal generation thing - don't follow through!
'Distress & Diversion Cell Request 22nd July 2005
The D&D Cell has requested that we ask all pilots to let them know if they have landed out and had to leave the glider in the field overnight or if, for any reason, they believe that the landout has caused or is likely to cause alarm. In these events, you should call the D&D Cell on 01895 426 150, letting them know the location and confirming that there are no casualties. The request follows an incident where a glider was left on a hillside in Wales recently to allow the owner to organize a particularly tricky retrieve. As a result, a helicopter was scrambled in poor weather to check for survivors at a reported glider 'crash site' '

[QDMQDMQDM]

The police helicopter thing happened to me recently for the first time in five years of regular field landings:

http://forums.flyer.co.uk/viewtopic.php?t=37557

The D+D number is now in my mobile phone memory. Thanks for that.

[tangovictor]

seems very anti Police in this thread, the problem is this, when a member of the well meaning public phone on the 9's, the Police have to respond, no if's no buts, you have to go, even when cancelled , you still go
what i'd say is, just think how greatful you'd be, should you have had a forced landing, and injured yourself. To have some help, even if they dont know air law.

[ericferret]

A pilot friend of mine took off from a farm strip and declared a pan due to a severe airframe vibration. On returning to the field the pan was cancelled.

Next thing that happens is a Seaking arrives overhead. Someone decided to turn the pan into a training exercise. No problem with that.

Then a policeman arrives at her house to inform her 16 year old daughters that her mothers aircraft is "missing". Apparently nobody told the police that it was a training exercise.

[SNS3Guppy]

SN3Guppy, if landing or taking off then within reason the proximity does not apply etc etc. Get some freedom into your minds and enjoy the open skies. I often go for a "tour" and neither ask for anything nor speak to anyone.


You better believe it does. I don't know how many years you've been doing this, or how frequently you use alternate airfields or unimproved locations, but I've spent years doing it for a living, including regular landings on roads, fields, and all sorts of other locations to inspect crops and do a variety of functions from fun to rescue.

People here are posting from numerous locations, countries, political climates, and are affected by a miriad of regulation. Most certainly there are places where one can get away with nearly anything, and I've flown in some of those spots. However, there are also places that are just the opposite.

My home range is in the US, and there the FAA will tag you with careless and reckless operation (14 CFR 91.13) along with any other regulation when citing a violation, and that can apply to taking off or landing, especially if it's not an area designated as an airfield. Regardless of location, one may certainly run afoul of local jursidiction, adjacent land or homeowners, etc. The simple act of putting an airplane where someone doesn't expect it might distract a driver nearby into a crash. It does happen. You can plan on being prosecuted if that happens, even if it wasn't intentional.

Certainly you can land off field. As I said, I've done it for years. However, don't make the blind assumption that merely because you've approved it with the land owner, you're golden...because you're not. Common sense and a little research go a long way.

[WorkingHard]

sns3g your right I should have said my comments apply to the UK. We are not yet so litigious as the USA (not quite anyway) and if someone decided to sue because they crashed a car (as you cited) through watching an aircraft land anywhere then they would not likely succeed. They crashed because they were not paying attention! Seems simple to me. Any way the point I was making still stand, enjoy the freedoms whilst we still have them and dont always ask to be "controlled"

[Sam Rutherford]

Thanks for all of that - now that we're on the subject of differences between locations - anybody know the score for Belgium, France or Switzerland?

Thanks, Sam.

[Jodelman]

France could be difficult.

A few years ago a friend got caught out with deteriorating weather near Cherbourg and with night approaching decided to make a precautionary landing in a suitable, if small, field.
Within minutes the local police arrived and whilst very helpful would not merely let him take off the following morning. The airfield manager from Cherbourg was called out together with the local mayor and had to declare the field a temporary airfield for it to be used to take off. Even then they insisted that a local QFI did the flight of a few miles to Cherbourg airport.

Whist only a few sentences to describe, the whole process took three days. If that is typical of an off airfield landing in France then better not to do it!

[SNS3Guppy]

sns3g your right I should have said my comments apply to the UK. We are not yet so litigious as the USA (not quite anyway) and if someone decided to sue because they crashed a car (as you cited) through watching an aircraft land anywhere then they would not likely succeed. They crashed because they were not paying attention! Seems simple to me. Any way the point I was making still stand, enjoy the freedoms whilst we still have them and dont always ask to be "controlled"


I can't speak to litigation, because that's outside my expertise by some margin, but I am concerned with the government response. In the civil end, anybody could sue for anything, within some reason, but egulation as applied by the government (CAA, FAA, etc.) is somewhat more predictable and defined.

[ericferret]

I remember working on an aircraft at North Cotes, a Harvard landed said hello and flew off.

Some time later one of customs and excises monkeys turned up demanding to know who's aircraft had landed and taken off again. Apparently they had failed to talk to the bombing range at Donna Nook, who had reported them.

I said I had'nt a clue about the visitor (liar liar pants on fire) but I didn't care for the mans attitude.

He then said that aircraft couldn't just land and take off again without permission.

I had a delightful 5 minutes telling him that they could and did. That the UK was not a police state yet and he could bugger off.
For private sites the rule is 28 days max in a year if there is no planning permission. To break that, someone has to be counting, so don't piss off your neighbours.