Virgin CC to ballot for industrial action

[fruitbat]

Union leaders today warned of the first ever strike at Virgin Atlantic after cabin crew rejected a new pay deal at the airline.

The Unite trade union said it intended to ballot more than 3,000 members over possible industrial action that could disrupt Virgin services over Christmas and New Year.

The comments drew a fierce reaction from Virgin which insisted the union had strongly recommended its members accept the revised deal.

Talks between Virgin Atlantic and union leaders have been going on for most of the year.

Virgin offered a two-year deal where cabin crew would receive a 4.8 per cent pay rise in the first year, backdated to April 2007. Pay would rise in line with inflation in the second year.

Unite said a “clear majority” of 60 per cent of its members rejected the deal.

Brian Boyd, Unite national officer, said: “Virgin Atlantic cabin crew believe that their professionalism and dedication has been undervalued for far too long.

“Unite is calling upon Virgin Atlantic to deliver a long-term solution to this problem. It has gone on for too long and our members have had enough.

“Unite has written to the company today to inform them that the union will ballot its members for strike action within the next two weeks.”

Virgin countered by revealing comments by Mr Boyd in a letter to the airline in which it claimed he said: "Unite now believe that we reached a point where the important part played by the cabin crew in the continued success of Virgin Atlantic has been recognised."

Lyell Strambi, chief operating officer at Virgin Atlantic, said: "Virgin Atlantic is deeply disappointed that our recent pay deal, which was twice recommended by Unite to its members, has been rejected.

"We believe that the pay offer is the best increase in the industry this year.

"We value the huge contribution that our crew make to the airline's success and we know that our crew wouldn't want to damage our reputation for leading customer service.

"However the union has informed us that the next step will be a ballot for industrial action and we are awaiting official notification of this."

Virgin's cabin crew rejected a three-year pay deal by a 92 per cent majority in August.

A Unite spokesman said that regardless of its recommendation, "we support the position of our members".

He said: "They have decided their pay is worse than they could get with a competitor. They are tired and have had enough."

[MrBernoulli]

He said: "They have decided their pay is worse than they could get with a competitor. They are tired and have had enough."

So why don't they try joining the competitor then? The competitor's cabin crew mostly think they have a really hard time and are badly treated by the company. Would make a nice change to see more crew appreciative of their Ts & Cs instead of some of the work-shy molly-coddled moaners that populate the place.

[Dutchjock]

Now there's a good reply...

There always someone who says "if you don't like it p#ss off..." :ugh:

Why not support your colleagues who fight for their terms & conditions?

[whattimedoweland]

Nice reply MrB,:=:=

I don't fly for VS but if they vote and are not happy they have a right to strike.

Whenever any airlines cabin crew show signs of industrial unrest and possible strike,they are ''wrapped in cotton wool'' and should leave and find another job.Same attitude every time.

When pilots go on strike they are never seen as wrong,like when threatening to strike for their beloved pensions!!.

A little support from your side of the door would'nt go a miss.


WTDWL.

[Dan Winterland]

Mr B, the Virgin CC are amonst some of the worse paid in the industry. For years, the Virgin culture has been, "It's a fun place to work, so people will do it for peanuts'. This may have been true when they had a handful of aircraft, but now it's a major airline with some punishing routes, this is no longer the case. It was bad after 9/11 when the company was close to going under and the crews gave up a lot to help out. But since then, I gather the company is doing well. However, the pay is still poor.

They deserve a decent pay deal. They have my (moral) support.

[Right Way Up]

Dan,
Completely agree. For years VS cabin crew have been taken advantage of. This has been facilitated by the false impression that working for VS is one big party. Instead of creaming off the profits to offshore accounts the hierachy would have been better served using a small proportion of the money to keep their employees happy. However what do you expect from the boss who was strangely absent in September 2001! :=

[springbok449]

Well its all OK for the Chief Operating Officer to say that the C/C have been offered a 4.8% increase, what he omits to say is that they are currently paid well under the industry average making the 4.8% meaningless.

Good luck to the C/C they supported us during our pay negotiations a few years ago so its time we support them....

Interesting times ahead....

[411A]

One must remember that CC are a dime a dozen, even considering training costs.
We hear this all the time...'we aren't paid what we are worth.'

I suspect there are plenty of replacements ready and waiting to fill out applications at the Virgin HR office.:}

[priapism]

No bites yet 411A , tide must be wrong.

[Right Way Up]

411a,
Those 3 posts above yours were made by current or ex Virgin pilots. The point is that those queues have started to dwindle as the word gets out that working for VS is not what it seems.

[p7lot]

I'm all for more money.......Go for it guys and get what you think you're worth..................power to you.
I have control.....you do radios..........and cc to work.:)

[A and C]

First I have to say that I think all cabin crew are underpaid.

However it would seem to me that unless the Virgin CC can make this strike sick 100% then the airline will continue to opperate and just suck in staff from other airlines at Gatwick who are worse paid and are on part time or temp contracts.

The real loosers in this dispute are likely to be the Virgin CC who strike and an airline at LGW who are playing fast and loose with there CC at the moment.

[stormin norman]

Can't be that serious ,i havn't seen the bearded one on TV crying yet !

I hear all is not well with the Engineering staff either.

[206cc_jim]

One must remember that CC are a dime a dozen, even considering training costs.
We hear this all the time...'we aren't paid what we are worth.'

I suspect there are plenty of replacements ready and waiting to fill out applications at the Virgin HR office.

I dont think so many years ago this may of been the case, indeed many years ago I thought the world revolved around the aircraft with the red tail and would of done anything to work for them.

Application numbers are down, at one point they were getting 76,000 applications per year It is no where near this figure now, people are getting disenchanted with the brand, the working conditions and the whole package virgin atlantic offer now.

I hope Virgin Crew get the pay they deserve. It should not be a case of "if you dont like it, you know where the door is" Management didn't get away with it at my airline, and we now have some of the best t&c's and pay amongst the UK airlines.

[Carpe]

Tin tin has hit the nail on the head. A 60/40 split in the vote will be totally unworkable for the Union. The CC union recommended the pay deal to its members and they still voted no!! What were the Union doing! I think Unite have totally screwed the leadership of their Members up. And they will have a bunch of scattered sheep when it comes to a ballot for Industrial Action. If they get another 60/40 split they needn't bother showing up with the braziers.
They had an industry leading pay rise and a chance to come back and fight another day when the Company makes more than thruppence ha'penny profit and they've blown it!
I'll bet the bulk of the no-voters are early-mid 20s, only planning on sticking around for a couple of years anyway, couldn't give a t*** if the Company goes under and thinks a strike would be a bit of a laugh. Will they be standing outside T3 with placards in hand (whilst not getting paid)? Yeah right! - 'I can't go on strike yet, I haven't done my Christmas shopping'.

Poorly led, poorly advised and totally let down. The girls in red are in serious trouble.

[springbok449]

Carpe,

Whilst I agree with your post, I think that the non-voters are fairly equally split in between the early 20s who dont care as they wont be there in a couple of years and those who have been here a number of years 10+ who are fed up that the company dont show them any loyalty by not offering pay increments...

Bokkie.

[warkman]

This 60% so they are in a mjajority won't wash in strike action.

Only 69% of the Union members (not all the cabin crew) returned their papares, so 2,208 returned the papers.
Out of that figure 60% voted against, thats 1,325 out of 3,200 which is only 41% of the union members that could possibly vote for strike action. Also not even a majority of union members voting against the last pay deal.

I think (I am not totally sure of the amount of Cabin crew at Virgin anyone know?) thats only around 30% total of the CC, not a lot really.

Can cause some disruption, but not total stoppage?

[mikeyuk]

Everyone in the Union will be balloted for strike action. If this comes back as a majority vote for strike action EVERYONE in the union will have to strike. If you are in the union and voted no for strike action you will still be expected to support your colleagues.

[warkman]

Everyone in the Union will be balloted for strike action. If this comes back as a majority vote for strike action EVERYONE in the union will have to strike. If you are in the union and voted no for strike action you will still be expected to support your colleagues.

And then in the real world......

Not been involved in many strikes have you?

[mikeyuk]

Actually i have. Quite a nasty one at Manchester airport a few years ago where all sorts of threats where bieng thrown at people who broke the strike. These threats included wreath's bieng sent to peoples houses with RIP on them.

So yes i have.

[warkman]

Then you know that in the real world, the majority of union members will not support a strike they don't want and will either leave the union or break the picket.

The 28% of cabin crew angling for a strike don't have the clout to win this one.

[mikeyuk]

About 80 % of members did strike so i dont really know what your going on about.

[warkman]

We are talking about this potential strike, not what happened at manchester.
Still, even then 20% did not strike, also how many were not in the union?

[mikeyuk]

As far as i am aware everyone in the Union did strike. You see thats the point of bieng in a union you all stick together. Whats the point of being in a union if your not willing to fight for what you want.

[warkman]

As far as i am aware everyone in the Union did strike. You see thats the point of bieng in a union you all stick together. Whats the point of being in a union if your not willing to fight for what you want.

Ask the 59% who either voted for the deal or did not send ballot papers back that question, as that is the shifting sand which this strike is anchored on.

The days of Bully boy union tactics to make everyone strike have gone.

[mikeyuk]

Tin Tin

I was under the impression that if the majority voted to strike all would have to strike, union meaning as one as such.

[smellthecoffee]

I'm really concerned about your (Carpes) narrow mindedness and am grateful that not all flight crew think like this.

I realise that you have had years of training to get into your position but that doesn't mean that as cabin crew we don't take our roles seriously. I am in my mid twenties have worked as cabin crew for 5 years and plan to stick around for a good few years to come! I find your comments patronising and hope you will be eating your words when you see me standing on the picket line protesting for something i truly believe in. Shopping will be the last thing on my mind; your comments only make me and my colleagues even more determined to get what we deserve!

[Shanwick Shanwick]

Reps? You're 'avin a larf!

[Carpe]

Hi Smellthecoffee,

It's not my intention to be patronising, especially to someone who has an interest in staying in the Company. But I stick by what I've said - yours and my continued employment is potentially in the hands of a set of people who have NO vested interest in the future of the Company. I've spoken to lots of them, lots who DIDN'T EVEN VOTE! They think this is some sort of lark and they are not for a moment considering the consequences. But make no mistake mate, whilst you are stood there with your placard, the same 'can't be arsed to vote' brigade will not be shoulder to shoulder with you, they'll be busy on-board (with a nice little bung for their betrayal) undermining your determination to sort out your terms and conditions once and for all.

Don't forget, it took Virgin Pilots five years and two tough pay deals to get to the position they are now in, the Cabin Crew need to take the same view. Now there is sufficient Union membership to make the Company sit up and take notice of the CC union, you should be planning a long slow campaign to drive standards up. Your Union Reps are doing their best but they have lost control of their membership who think they can just keep saying no (or not bothering to vote so that it's not their fault!) and the Company will offer them more money - we are all heading for a train smash as a result.

As I understand it, your pay deal is structured to reward better those, like you, who wish to remain in the Company and rise through the ranks - and rightly so - about time too. But you have NO chance of getting that recognition unless you get a grip of the large number of junior staff who have NO interest in how much a CSS gets as they have no intention in sticking around that long. Your Reps need to start showing strong leadership, something they have not done so far at all.

[virginboi]

You know what im really fed up to the back teeth of all this strike action rubbish and ill tell you why.
Today I over heard conversations from your new crew who themselves have only been with the company a few weeks discussing the poss strike action and how they feel they should be given a higher salary.
You can imagine how sadend I was to hear this from new people within our company jumping on the band wagon of a very silly campaign run by some what mis guided people.
I dont mean to sound harsh but come on ladies and gents you knew the salary at the start , you knew the perks and you had the choice of whom to go work for your the role models for the new guys and look what you have turned them into!!
Take the resposibility for your actions and do not make our airline into a BA mark 2 (where staff run the airline by millitant action).
Your risking so much as you know the airline will not survive 7 days of strike action, and your actions will have a direct result on both staff in the air and on the ground by creating possible job cuts.
So while your sipping on your G and T's down route think of the other poor Ba**ards who work within this airline , who are panicing because we do not know if we will have a job in the run up to xmas.
Lets face it if you dont like the job or the comapany or the money isnt enough then GO SOME WHERE ELSE!!!
Our business isnt the best paid but hey we all knew that and I make my money up by using the benefits etc.
Virgin doesnt need silly people just fighting on for fighting's sake listern to your union reps etc belive me they know best.
Leave the negotiating to them and stick to your chicken or beef and let the rest of us sleep well in knowing our jobs will be there in the morning.

A VERY PROUD VAA EMPLOYEE