Should I bother renewing my IMC rating?

[englishal]

I have an FAA IR, and normally get an IMC rating issued on the basis of it (via FAA IPC every two years).....

My G reg is non FM immune, so can't be used for IFR inside CAS. My FAA IR already gives me IFR privileges in the G reg outside CAS....so, is there any point at all in renewing my IMCr, bearing in mind all this talk about it possibly disappearing soon...?

ta

[A and C]

In your situation I would renew the IMC if only to be in a position that lets you fly VFR on top.

[dublinpilot]

I imagine an IMC rating is very valuable now....I certainly wouldn't let it go at the moment.

In times of change, these things often bring grandfather rights that are worth more than the original privlidge....no guarantees, but worth holding onto just in case.

dp

[S-Works]

I hope DP is correct. Our CAA does have a history of honoring grandfather rights. How EASA will handle this is an interesting topic for discussion. At the moment the statement is just that they will withdraw all national ratings. But as I understand it, it is possible for the CAA to file differences to at least give some grandfather rights. Whether this happens is anyones guess.

[BillieBob]

But as I understand it, it is possible for the CAA to file differences to at least give some grandfather rights.Under the current arrangements it is possible for the CAA to file short-term exemptions from the requirements of JAR and differences to ICAO standards. Unfortunately, this will not be possible when EASA takes over as both the Regulation and the Implementing Rules will be EU law and, ultimately, differences to ICAO will be filed by EASA on behalf of all member states. These arrangements will supersede UK law (the ANO) and challenge will only be possible through the European court. Not only does this signal the end of the IMC rating but also of national licences such as the lifetime PPL and BCPL - it will be a case of EASA or nothing.

Latest information from Cologne suggests that the first draft of the EU-FCL Implementing Rules will be published for comment and response within the next few weeks. Given the massive effect they are reputed to herald for GA in the UK, it is important that everyone with an interest takes the time to read and submit comment on the proposals - this will be your first and last chance!

[Gertrude the Wombat]

Our CAA does have a history of honoring grandfather rights.
Without which I wouldn't be flying at all. (Legal under the old eyesight regs, not under the new ones).

[IO540]

If one lets one's JAA PPL+medical to lapse, how many years is it before the 7 written exams have to be re-taken if one wished to recover it?

I am talking about a pilot flying elsewhere, on other licenses, ~ 150hrs/year.

[BEagle]

IO540 - under JAR-FCL you do not need to resit the exams even if your JAR-FCL SEP Class Rating and/or PPL(A) have expired 100 years ago.

Nowadays, to renew (not revalidate) your SEP Class Rating, if it's less than 5 years, then all you need to do is to fly a Licensing Skill Test (not the full PPL Skill Test) after doing whatever flying you think you need to prepare you for the LST. If over 5 years, same thing but you also need to answer some oral questions during the Test.

One thing you MUST NB. Currently, the UK permits ICAO licence holders (e.g. FAA) to exercise their licence privileges without further formality, provided their licence is valid. BUT the Eurocrats of EASA have given no assurance that this will continue.

Please understand that EASA is one of the biggest potential threats to every UK pilot's current licence privileges ever faced. DO NOT IGNORE THIS EUROCRAP!!

[Whopity]

My FAA IR already gives me IFR privileges in the G reg outside CAS How do you work that out? Your FAA licence gives you PPL privileges but the IR has no validity whatsoever!

[DFC]

Being able to fly IFR is one thing.

Being able to fly in IMC is not the same thing.

For any form of IFR IMC Flying, there is the posibility that one will at some stage have to divert to an aerodrome inside controlled airspace to complete an approach procedure especially when one considers the availability of suitable alternates in the UK.

Of course, you would not be making any approaches with non-FM immune equipment outside controlled airspace either now would you.

Being Non-FM Immune does not prevent you completing an SRA or an NDB or NDB/DME procedure.

Thus I would recomend that you retain the IMC rating.

Regards,

DFC

[EvilKitty]

Quote:
[quote?
My FAA IR already gives me IFR privileges in the G reg outside CAS
How do you work that out? Your FAA licence gives you PPL privileges but the IR has no validity whatsoever![/quote]

Yes it does.

A quick glance at Lasors (section E p.13) gives:

An applicant who holds an ICAO IR or military
green Instrument Rating (Aeroplanes) and have
passed an IR test in the 24 months preceding the
date of application for the IMC Rating will be
exempt from taking the initial IMC Flight Test and
written examination. Applicants will be required
to apply for the issue of the IMC rating within this
period, and the IMC granted will be based from
the date the last IR test was passed.

[DFC]

EvilKitty,

Note the bit in your quote about having to apply for the rating..... and thus get it on your valid UK licence before exercising it's privileges.

Regards,

DFC

[IO540]

Whopity - look up ANO article 26.

An ICAO (non-JAA) IR gives you worldwide IFR privileges in a G-reg, but only outside controlled airspace which makes this concession relatively useless in practice especially outside the UK.

[englishal]

Thanks for the replies...

IO is correct in that the ICAO IR gives IFR privileges outside CAS without formality (in IMC, out of sight of the surface etc...). I believe the original intention was to grant the same privileges to ICAO IR holders as the IMC gives - it used to say this on the CAA web site anyway pre-JAR, before it was removed.

I think I'll retain the IMC rating for the moment, it only costs £70 odd and it would allow me to rent or fly a G reg in the UK with FM Immune avionics.

I am wondering whether it is worth keeping my JAR licence valid at all - my next medical (March) is the last one pre-age 40, and I'm tempted to run for one more term before letting the whole lot lapse and just fly on my FAA ticket. In the future if I wanted to renew I'd do the CPL......

cheers

[EvilKitty]

Yup, I'll admit I misread Whopitys reply and IO540 provided the correct ANO reference for IFR privileges OCAS.

[Cusco]

Funnily enough it's my FAA/IR that I'm allowing to lapse:

I fly a G Reg from an unlit grass strip in the UK and keeping the FAA/IR current, frankly, is a pain in the *rse.

Sure , I've used it in anger but only when renting in USA............

Circumstances are that I'll prob 80 not be renting in USA any more...........

However, my IMCR is a stand alone and I'm going to keep that current if only to be able to punch up through the cr*p (like yesterday) and have a glorious bimble in bright sunshine, before coming back to gloomy earth.

And yes, I did have a RAS for the cloud breaks...........

And will be doing the same tomorrow.

Cusco.:rolleyes::rolleyes:

[IO540]

Cusco

Your FAA IR isn't a problem because you can revalidate at any time with an IPC.

The FAA PPL is worth keeping current with a BFR, which as a current pilot you should pass. The FAA medical is a lot cheaper than the CAA medical. And you can fly a G-reg on the FAA PPL, worldwide.

The advantage of the IMCR over the FAA IR is that with the IMCR you can fly a G-reg IFR in Class D. This does somewhat open up landing options (e.g. Bournemouth) but is not usually essential. I could easily manage around the UK without ever going IFR in CAS.

[BEagle]

Actually, I find the SVFR limits of the IMCR a distinctly useful privilege when flying to/from Class D.

[IO540]

I don't think I have ever used "SVFR".... what am I missing?

Apart from going to Jersey under VFR, which has to be SVFR because it's Class A, I suppose.

[Whopity]

I stated that the IR gives you no privileges; Article 26 allows holders of an ICAO, but not a JAA PPL to fly IFR outside controlled airspace. This is a privilege of the Pilot Licence; holding an IR gives you nothing extra.

[englishal]

Article 26 allows holders of an ICAO, but not a JAA PPL to fly IFR outside controlled airspace. This is a privilege of the Pilot Licence; holding an IR gives you nothing extra.
Out of sight of the surface and in IMC (i.e. not meeting VFR minima)....are you sure?...But holding an IR does remove these restrictions....(can't be bothered to find the reference right now)...

[IO540]

The 2005 ANO is here (http://www.opsi.gov.uk/si/si2005/20051970.htm).

26 (4) is here

(4) For the purposes of this Part of this Order—

(a) subject to sub-paragraph (b), a licence granted either under the law of a Contracting State other than the United Kingdom but which is not a JAA licence or a licence granted under the law of a relevant overseas territory; purporting in either case to authorise the holder to act as a member of the flight crew of an aircraft, not being a licence purporting to authorise him to act as a student pilot only, shall, unless the CAA gives a direction to the contrary, be deemed to be a licence rendered valid under this Order but does not entitle the holder—

(i) to act as a member of the flight crew of any aircraft flying for the purpose of public transport or aerial work or on any flight in respect of which he receives remuneration for his services as a member of the flight crew; or

(ii) in the case of a pilot's licence, to act as pilot of any aircraft flying in controlled airspace in circumstances requiring compliance with the Instrument Flight Rules or to give any instruction in flying;

(b) a JAA licence shall, unless the CAA gives a direction to the contrary, be deemed to be a licence rendered valid under this Order.

I agree this refers to a PPL only.

But an IR gives separate IMC privileges, doesn't it? I can't find the bit in the ANO which gives this.

I wonder if anybody can work through the whole reasoning on this one. I have read it done to death a few times, and the clear upshot was that e.g. an FAA PPL/IR flying a G-reg could legally fly IFR worldwide but only OCAS.

[bookworm]

Not sure what the issue is, IO540. It's implicit in 26(4) that the validation is subject to the limitations of the foreign licence and offers the privileges of the foreign licence subject to the restrictions in (i) and (ii). So if the licence has an IR attached, it confers the privileges of that IR (usually to fly under IFR), limited by (ii) to being outside controlled airspace.

[IO540]

Having just been out for a walk :) bookworm I was going to come back here and write exactly that!

Stuff like NR/NQ or the IR are privileges attached to the license so when 26 (4) talks about privileges it applies to those too.

Anyway, if it didn't, why mention IFR OCAS at all when anybody drafting it knows this stuff applies worldwide yet the UK is alone (?) in allowing a plain PPL to fly IFR...