SACAA audit failure

[birdlady]

Rumours are abounding that the SACAA have failed their FAA audit. Anyone got updated information. :sad::sad::E:E

:eek::eek::confused::uhoh:

[Oom Kaspaas]

who cares.:ugh:

[Avvy]

wouldnt surprise me, but if its true im sure there will be another 3 month extension.

[Jamex]

Nope, apparently 45 days this time.

[AirwayBlocker]

Oom Kaspaas, you said..


who cares.:ugh:


Well obviously not you. But a helluva lot of SAA passengers are gonna be mighty upset if their flights are cancelled due to the SACAA having possibly failed the audit and resulting in all aircraft licenced by it no longer being able to operate in FAA controlled airspace.

Worst case scenario? For sure. Possible? Yes.

[Avi8tor]

Try validating your licence anywhere else. This is REALLY serious. We should care.

[Oom Kaspaas]

relax. Uncle Sam is trying to uplift africa. All will be well soon.

[August2007]

This might be slightly off the topic, but in your opinion, how long do you think SAA will/can be a member of the Star Alliance Group with the current situation it finds itself in?

[SortieIII]

What 'current situation' are you referring to?:confused:

[August2007]

Apologies, I was referring to the financial situation. Will the Star Alliance network also bale them out (if they are asked to assist) as they did to Air Canada a few years back?

[RSQ]

Apart from the obvious schadenfreude one experiences that those (mainly) incompetants, led by the (mostly) ignorant, have yet again failed to perform, we should all care beacause:-
The value of aircraft on our register takes a hit when reselling into the US;
Our licences internationally have even less value that they have at the moment;
While SAA (I understand) has an independent audit which keeps them flying, - - no more ZS aircraft into the USA- there goes the odd profitable charter;
We join the ever growing list of African states that "cannot make the grade";
Having just returned from the US, I found a definite change in the US FAA examiner's attitude. They have never taken any "crap" from pilot candidates, and they are now even more hard assed, I see a possiblity that no more extensions will be granted by the FAA;
While the result of the ICAO audit was a foregone conclusion, (politics, my dear chap - how could we EVER fail the Rainbow Nation, Africa's one "success" story), I fear the FAA attitude will be different. Thank heavens I hold an FAA as a backup.
Hey! , - if the FAA kicks the CAA in the nuts, does this mean we will have a basis to validate our licences ad infintum, (nauseum?) as the SA licence would be then pretty much useful only as a beer coaster? Remember the days one was proud to hold an SA licence in a setting with other crew?
What we should all be asking ourselves is this - why do I have to perform to a set international standard when the examiners are by and large, way below that?
Witness the CAA "senior" inspector who not only failed the 737 sim, but most recently the Embraer ground school.
Ground school you say with lifted eyebrows? Well yes, if this is true, the numbnuts who is inspecting and examining YOU cannot even pass a bloody ground school!
*Sigh* where does it all end?

[RSQ]

A little CAA birdie with clipped wings alerted me to the rumour on Monday and confirmed yesterday that we had failed but the CAA was trying to get an extension..... the birdie's words were..." a downgrading may be on the cards"

Apparently the report was floating around the offices of Foggy Bottom, and when the powers that be, realised it, a **** fit was duly thrown with all and any copies hurriedly returned to a trustworthy officer's desk drawer......(probably never to be seen again) I can only hope against hope that it is not true......

[reptile]

Interesting.................

CAA MEDIA STATEMENT
2 November 2007
FAA AUDIT RESULTS
The South African Civil Aviation Authority would like to confirm that the FAA audit final report has not yet been released. The rumours about the report being released are both false and malicious and can only seek to harm the reputation of South Africa.
Contact. Phindiwe Gwebu
Tel. 011 545 1086
Cell. 083 461 6070
[email protected]

[RSQ]

Is she joking? Can our reputation get any worse? - mind you, thank heavens we have not sunk to the levels of the DRC, and hopefully never will.

So, do we believe her?

Note that she never said we passed, (I don't believe she can)the CAA birdie says CAA is trying to get an extension to "fix" the problem areas, witness the ads in the Sunday Times recently, are these part of the fix?

She says no fail,the guys in the CAA say fail, - dilemma dilemma, who do we believe?

So, if these rumours are causing speculation lady, get off the fence, say we passed or we did not, and we are negotiating with the FAA for a pass - (grading on the curve?) But don't expect us to believe you when you skirt the question (I see a career for you in the Department of Health!)

[thincatblue]

Skirt, skirt - did someone say skirt

From: Jakob Zuma

[GooffBall]

I'm sick and tired of the CAA being critisized (and rightfully so) due to incompetent selfcentered managers and HOO's. Competent CAA personnel are targetted and worked out of their positions....Whether by getting them suspended, fired or 'allowing' them to resign.....leaving voids and having young people running sections that need people with 20-30 years experience.

I know for a fact that the Zimbabwean (OBC) borrows money on a monthly basis (to help "finance" his other private ventures) from his sub-ordinates, but that he has the nerve to suspend hard-working CAA officers that might have stepped a little out of line.

A specific Head of Operations (AM) has blatantly cursed a client (a while back) and after a complaint was lodged with the CEO/Commissioner.......of course nothing happened.

I hope someone investigates the management and do something with these unworthy people. It is people like these tarnishing the good work that 70% of the CAA people are trying to deliver. This box is rotten from the top....not the bottom.

* I used abreviations so that the people that counts know who I am referring too.

[dudleydick]

Does the Chairman not work for a local airline as well?

[B Sousa]

Phindiwe Gwebu

No doubt an ATP?, maybe a Comm??, No, even a PPL??

[FlyItLikeARental]

B.Sousa, no, it holds a doctorate in aerodynamics, with 20,000 hours on jumbos and 3 different atpl's... :ugh: :ugh: :ugh: Sad sorry state we're in at the moment... We actually miss the rottweilers that ran the organization a couple of years ago... the non-affirmative ones... At least they had the experience. Anyone knows the quickest way to get a FAA atpl? maybe a good idea to act in the next 45 days :}

[Parrot]

Sadly, the SA CAA's credibility is even further reduced by a BS media release:ugh::ugh::ugh:
Public Relations 101 is that if you have been caught with your panties around your ankles ... then admit your error and then explain what a wonderful revovery plan you have:ok:

OK, perhaps they dont really have a recovery plan so BS is the only option:ugh::ugh::ugh::ugh:

If PG is a paid PR person I would be asking for my money back :yuk::yuk::yuk:

[Champagne Lover]

Why should they care? SAA hardly flies into Europe anymore. They are "expanding" into Africa.....
These guys long ago realised, THEY CAN DO NO WRONG ! And now they are making hay whilst the sun shines. Just look at any African scenario where the outside world is involved. They have seen that they can do what the hell ever they like, without the outside world doing anything (nasty, like sanctions etc) to them! Now for some time already they have been capitalising on this mindset. It's a free for all, if you have the one and only important-'criterion'!:D

[Champagne Lover]

That wouldn't be the 'venerable' DM, who works for RF would it be? But then again, why not??? Nothing ethically wrong there for RF. He's a business man.....
Not a criminal offence, therefore you CAN do it! (In Africa that is)

[RobinB]

Article on the subject from African Pilot


CAA Media Statement - FAA audit results
2 November 2007
"The South African Civil Aviation Authority would like to confirm that the FAA audit final report has not been released. The rumours about the report being released are both false and malicious and can only harm the reputation of South Africa."


African Pilot’s comment

It has heard through reliable sources that the SA CAA has not passed the USA Federal Aviation Administration audit and this appears to be the reason why its communications department is not willing to divulge information to the media. There is no doubt that if the SA CAA had passed the FAA audit this fact would have been made public already. Therefore the above statement is a load of rubbish. If the SA CAA has failed the audit process, it must own up, because it cannot hide this fact for ever, and the aviation industry needs to know.

If the case is one of failure, then South African aviation is in for a very difficult future, as we see aviation in our country reduced to the level of most of the remainder of Africa. In order to rescue this situation and convince the SA CAA that certain management styles need to change, the industry working group must be taken seriously. Although A/P believes that the present CEO Jakes Myeza has been trying his best to make an A1 CAA, there is no doubt that certain managers within the SA CAA regulatory section are deliberately undermining his and other senior managers’ authority.

If Civil Aviation is to survive in South Africa, we all need to become involved and document the irregularities that are taking place, in order to rid the SA CAA of ‘short sighted’ staff members who intend to destroy aviation in South Africa. The problem really boils down to certain managers who have been appointed into positions that clearly they are not capable of commanding, due to their lack of knowledge on aviation matters.

[moreinfo]

Do I hear the Mamba snake in A/P's reply? The insinuation fits him like a glove!


This one is for you Andy :ok:

[Maurice Chavez]

This is classic:
"The South African Civil Aviation Authority would like to confirm that the FAA audit final report has not been released. The rumours about the report being released are both false and malicious and can only harm the reputation of South Africa."

It didn't stop you from making statements about Nationwide, nor did you care if it would harm them.... :sad:

[chileno 777]

Sorry to change the subject but I am little bit worried.:sad: Do you think that with the current situation with SACAA (audit failure, bad management, negatives perspectives) is still good idea to start a CPL course in S.A?:confused:

rgds

[rockpecker]

chileno777, dont panic just yet. An audit failure does not necessarily imply an immediate ban in FAA airspace, it may still be a case of "get your house in order or else..." Hopefully the incumbent management (and politicians even more so) will wake up to the realities of what this can mean.
Lets just hope.:rolleyes:

[chileno 777]

rockpecker

Thanks for the advise buddy:ok:
You are probably right I am just panicking, must be due to the fact I am to anxius to start my CPL.:8

[JvJ]

Just heard that 2/3rds of the CPL course will now be conducted in Zulu to comply with Equity Legislation that is being tabled by the South African Parliment.

[Jamex]

JvJ wrote "
Just heard that 2/3rds of the CPL course will now be conducted in Zulu to comply with Equity Legislation that is being tabled by the South African Parliment."

Nice wind-up attempt once more JvJ, but truth can sometimes be stranger than fiction! Thats where the FAA and ICAO problem's for SACAA first began, when the then Min of Transport (believe it was Mufamadi) decided the CAR's must be published, in accordance with the constitution, in two of the official languages. He wanted English and Zulu instead of Afrikaans. Problem was, none of the SA black languages contain the technical words necessary to achieve this and so the "problem" was just left and CAR's were not signed into effect. Took the FAA to discover this and it opened the can of worms which effects are still being felt today.

[Romeo E.T.]

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http://www.avcom.co.za/phpBB2/download.php?id=29742

nowhere near as "gloomy" as was made out to be...well done CAA

[rockpecker]

Well done CAA! Hope this lifts the generally poor morale in SA aviation.
:ok:

[Lt Gonville Bromhead]

i am sympathetic to those writers who have their doubts about the SACAA. but I think that the last mentioned report speaks for itself and provides reason to be hopeful. Thank God ! Well...chin chin

[four engine jock]

Its about time this report comes out. Well done to all in SACAA.
Keep up the good work!!!

[south coast]

I just read the letter from Mr. Jordaan regarding the SACAA.

It is amazing that the previous posters are so accepting of a letter written by the CEO of the organisation which was audited.

I would rather read the findings of the FAA who conducted the audit, or are you happy to be told what to believe.

Just seems strange how negative the earlier postings were and now suddenly the man in charge of that same organisation says 'everything is ok' so therefore suddenly it is!

[rockpecker]

south coast


I just read the letter from Mr. Jordaan regarding the SACAA.


If you actually did this, you may recall that the full report will be released in March. Although this is preliminary information, it is a welcome change from the direction everyone feared things were going. So, in the meantime, let's just enjoy the moment, OK?

[south coast]

OK Rockpecker, if it makes you feel better when the man in charge of the organisation so many thought was going in the wrong direction tells you its all ok, then fine.

You said this, 'Although this is preliminary information, it is a welcome change from the direction everyone feared things were going.'

What made you all fear things were going in the wrong direction in the first place, probably stories and things we all heard that were happening.

I was merely saying dont take everything the man in charge of the organisation in question says as gospel, do you think he was going to report bad news?

[Jamex]

Southcoast, you and I have disagreed in the past but this time I must agree with you. In any case it has taken this long to release an interim report because they (the CAA) did initially fall short and were then given 45 days to straighten out or there would've been serious repercussions. The only good news in my opinion is they managed the 45 day deadline satisfactorily for a change! Second times a charm!:}

[rockpecker]

south coast, Jamex,

You are both right, I have to agree. No question about it. We all know what the true state of affairs with the incumbent authority is, and more importantly, the current political climate regarding skills and retaining those skills, despite the political incorrectness of those who have them. I think for most people this audit's outcome was a foregone conclusion, so this message sparked the first indication of something possibly less gloomy. In my world, (if you look at the location I come from), I try to look for silver linings, and this looked like one. I still hope it is one. We can still sure as hell hope, cant we?

[ByAirMail]

Rockpecker,
Was looking for silverlining myself, but just put down last weeks copy of NEWSWEEK. Not looking good with Zuma at the helm.

[south coast]

Glad to see we can also agree on things too Jamex, even though it was a try!:O

Anyway, I do sympathise with rockpecker in trying to see some good out of what is potentially a bad situation.

I sympathise even more with the whole of the country with respect to the high probability of Zuma becoming the next president.

[Jamex]

SouthCoast said "I sympathise even more with the whole of the country with respect to the high probability of Zuma becoming the next president."

Now I'm really getting worried!! I Agree with you on two things now, SouthCoast!! Zuma becoming president is just as much a travesty as awarding England that try;)

[rockpecker]

.....high probability of Zuma becoming the next president


A saying from the ancient Chinese, "may you live in interesting times..." is never intended as a blessing, usually it is meant as a curse.

Zuma, well yes, interesting times ahead, no doubt.

This should not have become a thread on politics but it already has. The myth of so-called "democracy" all over the world today is mind-boggling. It is no longer a process of "deciding together" as the ancient Greeks did, today it is silencing the other opinion and squashing the opposition, no matter what the cost in voting-fodder.
No leaders are ever really elected on the strength of their values and abilities, they are mostly power-hungry demagogues who bulldoze their way to the high ground from where they then shout, "me! me!", neutralize any opponents by generating fear, and then call themselves elected leaders. Every African country. All over the world. G Dubya Bush included, supposed to be the world's leading democracy.

Why do people tolerate their leaders???

We are supposed to be an intelligent species, but miserably fail in this aspect of behaviour. Any leader's power exists only by convention, by common agreement. How is it that we abide by these agreements so grudgingly? Why do we fail in this aspect of social behavior? We are no better than sheep, or in this case, lemmings. Unfortunately, also differentiated into those (few) who try to grasp concepts, and those (masses) who just howl with the pack, vacantly following, without thought.
We probably need a few more generations of evolution, if we havent yet driven ourselves extinct as a result our own idiotic behaviour.

If only someone, most notably politicians, would seriously take to heart the writings of Ayn Rand once more.

Zuma... :{ :rolleyes: :ugh: :uhoh: :sad: :yuk: :confused: :confused: :confused:

Everyone out there, all of you ppruners, please pray and hope for the people and the aviators of SA.

I still hope, it keeps me going.