Light single into Gatwick?

[Contacttower]

Has anyone flown a light aircraft into Gatwick before?

Comments/experiences would be appreciated.

[BackPacker]

Didn't Polly Vacher do a touch and go there lately as part of her tour of Britain? Report in Flyer, one or two issues ago.

[Rainboe]

Can you imagine the landing fees? Why? There's Redhill a few miles away.

[Contacttower]

Yes, Polly did go into Gatwick in her PA28-235....I'll have a look at Flyer, I think I've got it somewhere.


Can you imagine the landing fees? Why? There's Redhill a few miles away.


Here's the background to it, last week I sent an application off to the CAA for my IMC rating...forgetting that on I am going to South Africa on Friday. I'm going to be doing a lot of flying in South Africa and I will need my logbook. The only way the CAA tell me that I can get my logbook back in less than 10 days is if I go and collect it in person. I could drive there....but that's boring...hence the question.

[BigStu]

Bose-x is your man for this one.

[airborne_artist]

View Larger Map (http://maps.google.com/maps?f=d&hl=en&geocode=&time=&date=&ttype=&saddr=51.152432,-0.164452&daddr=RH1+5YP&mra=dme&mrcr=0&mrsp=0&sz=12&sll=51.184293,-0.125313&sspn=0.095764,0.233459&ie=UTF8&t=k&om=1&ll=51.184293,-0.125313&spn=0.15064,0.291824&z=11&source=embed)">
View Larger Map (http://maps.google.com/maps?f=d&hl=en&geocode=&time=&date=&ttype=&saddr=51.152432,-0.164452&daddr=RH1+5YP&mra=dme&mrcr=0&mrsp=0&sz=12&sll=51.184293,-0.125313&sspn=0.095764,0.233459&ie=UTF8&t=k&om=1&ll=51.184293,-0.125313&spn=0.15064,0.291824&z=11&source=embed)

[A and C]

Try the strip at the western end just north of the 08 threshold.

[Contacttower]

It was very kind of you airborne_artist to put that link together...thanks.:)

[Spruit]

Rainboe Said

Can you imagine the landing fees?

Don't places like Gatwick, Heathrow etc charge by weight?

Spru!

[strake]

These guys say they handle all GA at LGW from "C150 to B747"....
http://www.interflight-gatwick.com/home.htm

Edited to say that given your mission, perhaps you would like the optional "Limo to the aircraft" service? Short drive to The Bel and back again....

[Bravo73]

As you've probably worked out, Contacttower, your best bet is probably to fly into Redhill then get a £15 taxi to the Belgrano.

[P.Pilcher]

I always used to take the Flight's coach from EGBB. The Belgrano was then a short walk from the older terminal. The Chaps may still provide their free bus service so saving the walk.

P.P.

[oby]

you'll just need a sunny drive day at Redhill, or skills to land on the taxiway :hmm:

Its a nice old place tho'

[EvilKitty]

PPR needed (to get a runway slot), preferably not less than 24 hours in advance. mandatory ground handling (three ground handlers to choose from). Dedicated GA terminal!

http://www.ais.org.uk/aes/pubs/aip/pdf/aerodromes/302KK01.PDF page 9 has more info

[Contacttower]

OK, everyone here is going to think I'm a complete idiot, but I rang Interflight and I've got a slot at Gatwick for 1045 on Thursday.

[airborne_artist]

Hope your credit card has a high limit....

[bobster1]

Before you go get a quote on handling, landing and parking fees, a guy I knew at Bournemouth when doing ATPL ground school took a PA28 into there at peak time and the total bill was just over £700!! yes £700..its not a typo:eek:

[MikeJ]

You asked if anyone has ever taken a light single into Gatwick. Yes, but so long ago. In the '70s one could easily use their GA terminal to clear customs and pick up or drop passengers. I must have been in there at least half a dozen times, probably cost about £3. Those were the days!

Not much use to you now, but please, please, let us know how you got on and the cost on your landing there on Thursday. I might try it again just for buzz.

[390cruise]

In 1973 I needed to do 5 circuits ar night in a single.

At Biggin Hill they would charge 50p per landing to cover the
cost of the lights.

At Gatwick with a 'landing card' (The aircraft had one) it was
FREE.....so no contest!!

390

[Whiskey Kilo Wanderer]

There is the small museum strip 550m x 10m grass, to the north of the western (08) threshold. Details are in the latest (4th Edition) Lockyears. I was last in there in August ‘03 and Peter Vallance was having problems with local NIMBYs. I’m not sure of the present status, but the website below indicates that it’s still operating. It is well worth a visit if anyway.

http://www.gatwick-aviation-museum.co.uk/

Safe Flying,
Richard W.

[S-Works]

I have been into Gatwick loads of times picking up friends flying into the country from Canada and for meetings at the CAA. Yes you can still get the free bus to the belgrano from the terminal.

Handling is first class, getting a slot is not a problem, they like a couple of days notice ideally. Fees are based on weight and actually quite good.

I am booked in for the 11th to collect a friend inbound from Halifax NS and to return him again a week later.

I have even been in once VFR and the service from zone to ground is always first class. Don't go in anything slow if you want to show respect for the CAT guys on a schedule. I have been asked a couple of times to keep 130kts down the ILS.

[TheKentishFledgling]

Fees are based on weight and actually quite good.

How much is quite good, bose?

Contacttower - would be good to know how much they charge you if you don't mind sharing!

tKF

[hoodie]

Notwithstanding Bose's post (twins are different!) and apart from Polly Vacher's recent rapid visit (:D), the last light single I remember hearng about at KK (probably not the last one there, but it might have been) was, I suppose, in the early 90s.

The story, as I heard it, was that a film crew wanted to take footage to commemorate something or other, so organised with a lightie owner to provide an aircraft to do same.

A Jodel was provided, but with pilot, talent, soundman and cameraman on board it came to grief on take-off with a main gear collapse (post groundloop?), Blacking the airport and making GA's name mud there for many a moon.

Is the above as accurate as a Jet Blast post, or is there some truth to it at all?

[Three Yellows]

I did it a couple of years ago in our Turbo Arrow, VFR. The cost was about £250.

At the time I didn't have an IMC so was quite daunting being radar vectored for the ILS, even though it was CAVOK. I'd never had to report localiser established before. Luckily I had dialled in the ILS frequency before departure as it was on my Jeppesen VFR plate.

At the time I'd done quite a few landings at big airports, Bournemouth, East Mids and Newcastle. However Gatwick is quite special for a boy is short trousers. It was probably the most stressful and enjoyable thing I've ever done though (in a PA28).

It also quite daunting hearing all the big boys being vectored a long way down wind behind you.

After landing we vacated pretty quickly and found ourselves almost immeadiately at Interflight's parking location, in the middle of a huge expanse of apron. Make sure you print off all the aerodrome charts from the AIS website. Also ask Interflight roughly which stands they are using and look them up on the chart before you go. (I can't remember and it may have changed)

Interflight were great.

The most difficult part was finding our way from the stand to the end of the runway. The taxiway signage is aimed at people sitting 50ft up in the air, not a PA28. In the end I admitted defeat to Ground and they helped out a lot with simple instructions.

Due to the single runway ops and wake turbulance issues, getting away is quite exciting. My (male) passenger almost had a baby! We were cleared to line up after a departing heavy, then had to wait. I had been so focussed on not screwing up, I didn't look up finals (I know I should have but I was concentrating very hard.... anyway what was the point, it's Gatwick, there IS going to be an aircraft there!) Anyway he had seen a B747 coming straight at us and knew it was bearing down on us whilst we sat there for apparently no reason!

Anyway, enjoy, its very rewarding!

[Three Yellows]

Found a picture...




http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x299/Threeyellows/DSC01549.jpg

[S-Works]

£115 Landing fee
£110 Navigation fee
£155 Handling fee (usually a little flex and a couple of hours parking)

This is the cost off peak for a 172.

[Contacttower]

Thanks to all for your replies...nice picture btw Three yellows.


Not much use to you now, but please, please, let us know how you got on and the cost on your landing there on Thursday. I might try it again just for buzz.


I'll be sure to post how I get on and how much it cost.

[Bravo73]

Landing & handling @ Gatwick: £380

Landing & 2x taxi @ Redhill: £47



Looks like a no-brainer to me... :confused:

[scooter boy]

Bravo 73, I'm totally with you on this one.
Redhill is the destination of choice if I'm flying out of Gatwick.
They even hangared my chopper for a week for £50 a few years ago when I took a flight out to the USA.

SB

[BackPacker]

Aw come on. That 333 UKP difference buys you a lot of bragging rights on PPRuNe!

Me, I live about 15 minutes by pushbike from Amsterdam Schiphol International airport. I'm still working up the courage to drive 45 minutes to Rotterdam, where my flying club is based, fly 15 minutes back to Schiphol, have lunch there, fly back to Rotterdam and drive back home. Just to be able to say I did it. Never mind the 350 euros or so that this little adventure will cost, in total.

General Aviation is normally not about the most economical mode of transport. It's to a large extent about having disposable income and doing something with it that we love. If flying straight into Gatwick fits your desire and budget, go for it!

[Keef]

Creeping the thread here, but isn't Rotterdam even more expensive than Schiphol?

I flew into Schiphol not long after I got my PPL, and was charged 4 Guilders for me and the aircraft plus 4.80 Guilders each for the pax. They even taxied me up to the main building and in the door to the vast briefing room.

Next time I went, it was the KLM Helikopters building and 50 Guilders. The time after that it was about 120 Guilders. I've not been since.

If Rotterdam isn't hundreds of Euros, I wouldn't mind a crack at that!

Gatwick is out of my price band :( I've landed at London City, and did a load of ILS approaches at Stansted when doing my IMC rating way back.

[aw8565]

Draw a line straight up from the base of the windscreen on that Piper to the thin building and that's my office window! Great view from up there...

[Three Yellows]

Draw a line straight up from the base of the windscreen on that Piper to the thin building and that's my office window!

You could have at least waved:eek:

[Fuji Abound]

Draw a line straight up from the base of the windscreen on that Piper to the thin building and that's my office window! Great view from up there...

What, on top of a lamp post .. .. ..

[BackPacker]

Creeping the thread here, but isn't Rotterdam even more expensive than Schiphol?

Landing fees are a little less at Rotterdam, but not much. But since we're based at Rotterdam, we get a discount.

Both Schiphol and Rotterdam have mandatory handling. But since we're based at Rotterdam, we do our own handling.

I once worked out the total landing cost at Schiphol would be about 70 euros for the landing, and 130 for the handling. Landing at Rotterdam for me is about 20 euros.

[S-Works]

I also use Redhill a lot and as SB points out the are great if you want to park up and leave. My last trip to the states recently they charged me £25 for landing and a weeks parking. Service is great. I would never consider flying into Gatwick and parking for a week. The parking at £14 per hour alone would be enough to deter me!

But it does have it's merits when collecting or dropping people off for flights as the handling agents have there own security so will check the passengers onto the connecting flight without leaving airside. I was in Canada last month and the Maldives this month and both times the queue to get through security (not check in just security) was FOUR hours....

It also has the advantage that I can go IFR so 95% reliability.

Schiphol is €180 for a weekend, it has it's own GA terminal and the standing joke is that it is cheaper to park your plane than your car! They are a great bunch. I lived in Amsterdam for many years so it is still a second home for me.

[IO540]

£115 Landing fee
£110 Navigation fee
£155 Handling fee (usually a little flex and a couple of hours parking)

Christ, for that money you could have a stretch limo with a cocktail bar drive you from Gatwick to anywhere in England.

Book one from Southend and you could get a female escort (extra services to be negotiated en route) bundled in the price.

Prices are creeping up everywhere, due to "handling". I think Prague has doubled in the last 2 years, to about £150 including 1 night's parking. The highest I have paid so far was Euro 223 landing at Tirana, Albania, but they are using a western management company so that's no suprise.

[spikeair]

Yep, flew in a few years ago in a AA5. landing fees came to just under £250. make sure you book a slot off peak or the cost goes up considerably.
Although cleared in the zone vfr, was vectored onto the ILS. Defintly worth doing to get EGKK in your log book.

[Joe le Taxi]

How it must be to be rich! I generally rule out a landing anywhere where the landing fee exceeds £10.

I only land at Gatters when someone pays me.

[S-Works]

I guess rich is relative. I know of people who would think the tenner you think is fine for a landing is a lot of money let alone the cost of the flying you paid for to actually get there...........

[Contacttower]

Just one question for those who have done this before....when I rang Interflight and arranged the slot and everything I then asked the woman on the phone if there was anyone else I needed to call prior to arriving; she said no, just book out at Thruxton (my departure airfield) I took that to mean just the normal thing one would do for any flight....but then I wondered...is there something else?

Reason I ask is that my experience of really big airports is only in the US....and there you just turn up (and ask for 10 ILS approaches or whatever takes your facy that day ;))....

[Three Yellows]

When I did it, I asked Interflight which frequency they would expect me to call them on first as I believe there are several, approach, director etc.

I was inbound to Gatwick all the way from Shoreham. I called the freq Interflight had given me. To be honest the controller was a bit confused at first because I guess most of her traffic is handed on from an approach controller. Anyway after a couple of seconds she must have found my details, 'cos it all turned out ok.

Anyway listen to the ATIS, I'm sure it will say something like report Information "xxxx" and aircraft type on first contact. Then add G-XXXX inbound from Thruxton.... The controller will tell you "radar vectors to the ILS rwy XX.


In true Pprune form, I wait to be corrected!

[Contacttower]

Thanks Three Yellows....that all sounds right to me. I was going to call on 126.825 first (having got ATIS) which according to the AIP is callsign 'Director'.

[TheOddOne]

Draw a line straight up from the base of the windscreen on that Piper to the thin building and that's my office window! Great view from up there...

And my office window was in the building that you can see just behind the aircraft. Even better view from there! ...but not as good as the view from my other 'office' window, a yellow Land Rover Discovery with a big No.1 on the door. Them was the days.

The OddOne

[Three Yellows]

Sounds about right.

I'm sure you will enjoy it. One of the funniest things when I did it was the following exchange when I was about three miles out.

TWR " Speedbird XXX, after the next landing PA28 line up"


Speedbird XXX " After the WHAT?@!**??!@?"


Look forward to hearing all about it when you get back. Are you going for a reason or just a £400 bacon roll (The LGW fees being 50p and the overpriced BAA Bacon roll being £395.50)

[Contacttower]

I'm going to get my logbook from the :mad: CAA.


TWR " Speedbird XXX, after the next landing PA28 line up"


Speedbird XXX " After the WHAT?"



Sounds classic, the logbook is more of an excuse (to myself) than a reason.

[TheOddOne]

Hoodie said:

The story, as I heard it, was that a film crew wanted to take footage to commemorate something or other, so organised with a lightie owner to provide an aircraft to do same.

A Jodel was provided, but with pilot, talent, soundman and cameraman on board it came to grief on take-off with a main gear collapse (post groundloop?), Blacking the airport and making GA's name mud there for many a moon.


Yup, you're quite right it was in 1990. The late, great Roy Castle was attempting to break the wingwalking World record by flying from Gatwick to Paris atop Vic Norman's Stearman. Off went Roy to be followed by the Jodel, which did as described above and the incident did indeed black these sorts of 'fun' activities from LGW. Glad I was off duty that day. As Ops staff, we were always keen to support such adventures, but Snr Mgmt took a dim view to the airport being shut for 3 hours. I never landed at Gatwick during my career there, but I did manage to get down to 50' in a 172, paid for by the Company, when we were evaluating a new track keeping system. I was under pain of death or dismissal not to touch the runway, such was politics around GA at the time.

We'd pull out all the stops to help anyone that needed it, but woe betide anyone who 'arrived' without a slot. Stick to the rules and you can get a lot!

The OddOne

[BackPacker]

Just one question for those who have done this before....when I rang Interflight and arranged the slot and everything I then asked the woman on the phone if there was anyone else I needed to call prior to arriving; she said no, just book out at Thruxton (my departure airfield) I took that to mean just the normal thing one would do for any flight....but then I wondered...is there something else?

Perhaps a full flightplan? I know formally it's not required, but it may help you "get in the system" easier.

[S-Works]

Nope they do not need a flight plan if VFR. Just do your normal thing at base and turn up. You are paying a significant amount of money for the handling agent to make sure everything goes smoothly. And if it does not make your you complain vociferously. I have had free handling on return visits at a couple of other places after complaining. Edinburgh charged me £114 quid for handling not to mention the landing fees etc. and why I asked for a taxi told me to call my own! I wrote to the MD of midwest pointing out I use them a lot and got a large credit.

[BackPacker]

Lucky fellows you are over there. Here in the Netherlands, a flightplan is required when flying in or out of any controlled airport, even VFR, even if all you want to do is a few circuits. For us, based at Rotterdam, that means always. In fact, I get confused when flying from one uncontrolled field to another and not having to file a plan. Occupational hazard I guess.;)

[Contacttower]

You are paying a significant amount of money for the handling agent to make sure everything goes smoothly. And if it does not make your you complain vociferously.


I will indeed complain if its not smooth....certainly since having been flying in the US, where I got stuck overnight at Gainesville once due to a major thunderstorm the FBO delt with everything for free (which I admit is GA in America for you :ok:), I take a very dim view of people who take your money and then don't deliver.

[scooter boy]

"I rang Interflight and arranged the slot and everything I then asked the woman on the phone if there was anyone else I needed to call prior to arriving"

Your bank manager?;)
SB

[Tall_guy_in_a_152]

Should a pilot without IMCR or IR accept a "Radar vectors for the ILS" in Class D (assuming VMC)? Once accepted, ATC will expect the approach to be flown to IR standards which could be a challenge, even in good VMC. I know that you cannot (legally) accept an IFR clearance in most of Europe, but what about UK?

Personally I would have asked for a visual join, prior to getting my IMCR. Come to think of it, even now I couldn't accept as I don't have a glideslope in the aircraft.:(

[Three Yellows]

Well, you have a point of course.

When I was not IMCR Rated and conscious that I would be flying very near the Belgrano, my reply to "expect radar vectors to the ILS" was that I was VFR, but could accept radar vectors. Isn't flying a heading given to you by a controller part of the basic PPL?

Luckily it was CAVOK. I was rather assuming that the controller's reply to my intial call, " expect radar vectors to the ILS" was a knee jerk reaction on her part as that's what she says to 99.9999% of aircraft.


I'll get me coat.

[Roffa]

If you're inbound to Gatwick VFR the last thing you should be given is vectors on to the ILS. Tell ATC you can't do that if they suggest it again!

Why oh why do they over control in such ways? :ugh:

You should just be told to position for a left or right base join then held on a base until told to position number two to whatever it is you're to follow with a "caution vortex wake, recommended spacing is x miles" thrown in.

You then position yourself on final behind the traffic and, if you're sensible, you fly above the preceeding traffic's glideslope, land long and vacate.

Oh so simple...

[Tall_guy_in_a_152]

I'm sure you are correct about the knee jerk response of the controller and any PPL should be able to fly a heading. It is intercepting and flying the ILS and reporting established etc that concerns me.

I can see a situation developing where the controller has an expectation of pilot abilities that differs from reality. Considering that a poorly executed go-around will put you in the carpark of the Belgrano it is probably not the best place to be experimenting!

[Three Yellows]

I think it takes several hundred hours and a lot of experience before a PPL would 'disagree' (term used very broadly) with a controller, especially in an very very busy place like Gatwick where everyone else on the freq has 1000's of hours and an ATPL with lots of scrambled egg on their hats.

I know, because I've read it on here, that ATCOs are taught that they are not the 'policemen/women' of the sky. But that's not how it feels to a PPL in a PA28!:}

[Fuji Abound]

Considering that a poorly executed go-around will put you in the carpark of the Belgrano it is probably not the best place to be experimenting!

By goodness given the lenght of 07 at Gatwick it would have to be a very poorly executed go around - unless of course you were intending to land very looooooong.

[Kirstey]

Although "vectors to the ILS" may not be technically appropriate.. "Vectors to Final" certainly is appropriate.

I don't think left/right base joins at Gatwick is entirely appropriate either - I guess it's easy for a tower controller to plan departures around an aeroplane a few miles out on final.. than one flying in circles on base leg.

[verticalhold]

Gatwick is a regular stop for me, both fixed wing and rotary. Usually VFR in the rotary, and the routine is hold at the North Terminal, and then land after whichever sky darkening piece of alloy has just touched down. Sadly they then make us follow A lumbering line of jumbos to a hold for a runway departure. They just can't get the idea that all I need is somewhere reasonably flat and a route nothbound away from the approach/departure path, which is pretty much what Heathrow provides. IFR in the rotary just involves flying the approach a bit quicker, the fixed wing is simplicity itself, either me or p2 flying and a sweetly fragranced hostie bringing tea and complaints from the pax!

If you are unsure what to do when asked for or given headings etc then take an instructor with you. Neither ATC or the crews operating CAT will thank you if you are on a teach yourself experience. ATC will be expecting a level of competence, not sudden curved balls. Have the radios set up and the frequencies listed where you can see them. Be prepared to do what you are told when you are told to. Frequencies can be bloody busy, be concise and give what is needed, not your inside leg measurement or what your granny had for breakfast. Enjoy it. The whole process of flying should be fun, the fun can stop when you get an earbashing from a frazzled ATCO for messing up his flow, or a sarky snap from a CAT pilot who is knackered having just flown halfway round the world, been up all night and just wants to get home, shower and sleep.

In fact thinking about it, I don't have a flight sim programme on my PC so I'm not sure whether this idea is worth it, try flying the trip on your PC before doing it for real. Not for nothing does EGKK appear on the military aircrew humour chart as "Shark Infested Custard!"

Have fun. I hope I'm there when you go. We use the same agent, and could grab coffee. I would love to see more GA using major airports.

VH

[Three Yellows]

Verticalhold,

I am sure what you say goes for any flying, not just for LGW. Always be prepared, always have the next freq dialled up, don't faff about on the radio when its clearly busy etc etc.

I think what the original poster asked was "how was Gatwick" not how should I be a more professional PPL.

[Dan Dare]

Sadly they then make us follow A lumbering line of jumbos to a hold for a runway departure. They just can't get the idea that all I need is somewhere reasonably flat and a route nothbound away from the approach/departure path, which is pretty much what Heathrow provides.

It is a sad fact of life that the people who make the rules are not allowed to apply common sense all the time. The ATCOs would like nothing more than to allow you to use a spare, flat bit of concrete (or grass) to get in and out without bothering the big boys. Unfortunately they have to follow the rules set by the airport, who in turn have to justify their rules to the CAA/HSE. This means that almost all of the flexibility of a Heli is lost and delays for all involved.

[Contacttower]

Well I did it. Departured Thruxton at 0940 and arrived at the MID VOR about 25 minutes later. Having taken off VFR I then entered IMC with a RIS from Farnborough and then made contact with Gatwick Director just west of the MID VOR. I was then given a climb to 3000ft inside controlled airspace and told to proceed to the MAY VOR. Once well downwind of runway 26L I was given vectors for the ILS (I have an IMC rating). The clouds were pretty turbulent as I descended on the ILS and I broke through at about 1200ft.

I was now on finals for the world's busiest single runway airport.

Airliners were everywhere and as I vacated the runway I was given stand 142L. Then came the best moment:

Ground: G-KT proceed direct to stand 142L on J, the BA 737 on you left will give way to you.

Me: Taxi stand 142L on J G-KT

Ground: Speedbird xxx hold postion....give way to the cherokee on your right.

On stand and car from Interflight comes to greet me...takes me to the "General Aviation terminal" (which is a little portacabin next to the South Terminal).

The inbound flight was not too bad actually...ILS approach wasn't perfect...but then its always difficult in turbulent cloud.

Departure was a VFR depature to the NW from runway 26L...while sitting in the take off queue I could feel the aircraft shaking a bit from the jet blast coming from the plane in front of me, but I kept my distance.

Overall it was worth it...sitting on the apron next to a 747 was brilliant and the contollers (especially ground) were really nice. :ok:
Some pictures:

http://i226.photobucket.com/albums/dd195/edbellamy/DSCN00072.jpg

http://i226.photobucket.com/albums/dd195/edbellamy/DSCN00122.jpg

http://i226.photobucket.com/albums/dd195/edbellamy/DSCN00132.jpg

http://i226.photobucket.com/albums/dd195/edbellamy/DSCN00162.jpg

http://i226.photobucket.com/albums/dd195/edbellamy/DSCN00192.jpg

http://i226.photobucket.com/albums/dd195/edbellamy/DSCN0029.jpg

[Contacttower]

Thank you again for all your comments...and by the way the bill was as follows:

Landing fee: £418+ £73.15 VAT
Parking for 3 1/2 hours: £50.93+ £8.91 VAT
Passenger charge: £110+ £19.25 VAT
Nav charge: £10+ £1.75 VAT
Handling: £155+ £27.13 VAT

Total: £874.12

I am NOT doing this again.

[Saab Dastard]

Well done! I'm sure that was worth every penny! :ok:

I hope you remembered to visit the CAA for your license - easy to forget why you went there amidst all the excitement. ;)

SD

[Three Yellows]

Well done indeed and a great set of pictures, how you managed to do that and take pictures!

Standby for the incoming flak regarding your climb into Controlled airspace. I can just imagine all the comments about was it A or D. Can't go IMC in A. (I'm not having a go, but I'd take that bit out!).

As for the radios, I had that problem when we had our Victorian radios, however I subsequently discovered that one of the two does go to 136, so worth checking.

As for the price, wow that's gone up a lot in a couple of years. I am guessing that was off peak too. I also guess that they are saying that they don't want you.

Anyway, well done!:D

[Contacttower]

Standby for the incoming flak regarding your climb into Controlled airspace. I can just imagine all the comments about was it A or D. Can't go IMC in A. (I'm not having a go, but I'd take that bit out!).



I know, I know....Gatwick CTR extends from the surface to 2500ft and is class D. So 3000ft does put me in the class A LTMA. The controller did say: "now cleared SVFR" and I was in good VMC on top....a little bit naughty := but it was such a relief after bouncing in and out of cloud.

[Chilli Monster]

So 3000ft does put me in the class A LTMA. The controller did say: "now cleared SVFR"

Shame you can only be SVFR inside a CTR - not a CTA or TMA

Can, worms, open!

Also - you have a PM.

[Tall_guy_in_a_152]

Excellent! Thanks for the report. I have to say, the bill is even higher than I expected. Did you have a passenger or was the passenger fee for yourself? I would have thought aircrew would be exempt.

If anyone here is tempted to try something similar (I am), can I suggest that it would be cheaper overall to fly to the US and do it there! San Diego International is the 2nd busiest single runway airport in the world (after Gatwick) and charge a total fee of $25. The locals think this is daylight robbery, since most airports are free.

[beatnik]

Well done contacttower!!! I was keeping an eye out for you to the east from my office at Virgin Atlantic but didn't see you arrive. I should have taken my radio scanner with me.

Enjoyed the build up in the PPRuNe forum ahead of your trip, and I'm sure the £900 was worth it. Enjoy your trip to South Africa (my hometown is Cape Town)

Great photos too. :ok:

Nik

[stickandrudderman]

Thanks very much for posting this. It's been a great read!:D

[Tim_CPL]

Coming from the other side of the pond, this kind of pricing is mind bending. Over $1,600 for a landing, departure and a bit of parking is just daylight robbery. In the last 2 weekends I flew IFR into Houston Hobby and Dallas Love, both of them extremely busy Bravo airspace and very busy airports (Love is the home of Southwest). In both cases here there was no landing fee, no tie down fee (if fuel was purchased), no land slots, and no passenger collection fees, and a "You're as welcome as a SW 737" attitude.

Point being that I know things are different here, but the UK pricing is designed for one thing - to keep GA riff-raff out, and in no way represents the level of service provided or the costs to render that service.

I just shake my head and wonder how anyone can afford to fly anything other than FSX in the UK/Europe.

Regards from TX

KGTU 011948Z 29003KT 10SM CLR 23/09 A3013

[Merritt]

Nice one and very impressive... Im off to San Francisco this weekend with work and I might just have to try San Francisco International whilst I am there (I have booked the whole Sunday up in the air)

BTW - Thruxton is my home field too.... :)

Steve M

[Contacttower]

Nice one and very impressive... Im off to San Francisco this weekend with work and I might just have to try San Francisco International whilst I am there (I have booked the whole Sunday up in the air)



There's a picture I took of San Francisco International from a C172 on the flying album thread.


BTW - Thruxton is my home field too.... :)



Simon laughed a lot when I told him how much it had cost!

[davidatter708]

Do they charge per landing or per attempt at the rwy so to speak cause if so £874 aint bad if you land at the numbers to 5 touch and gos in one landing and then vacate at last taxiway.
Dave:}

[englishal]

Well done! I'm sure that was worth every penny!
Fork that!

I think I'll do LAX tomorrow for $20, and save the £800 for two further trips out here;)

[POBJOY]

Flew a Comper Swift out of there in 82 (non Radio) off a service road past the tower (much waving from above)
Prob a one off !!!

[verticalhold]

Be Careful, you'll get addicted to big airports now. A couple of my GA flying mates are trying to get all the major European airports in their logbooks. If their wives ever find out the cost there will be mysterious deaths.

VH



wonder if I could get my Xair into LHR?

[basil faulty]

Well done, I was just waiting to push when I saw you at the hold behind the BA 73, I asked delivery about you, he did say must have have more money than sense!! Hope you enjoyed it.

[Mariner9]

wonder if I could get my Xair into LHR?

Should fit quite nicely into an A380 freighter ;)

£800+ for a landing is ridiculous, and obviously charged primarily as a deterrent to widespread use by GA. I wonder how much Polly Vacher was charged?

[The Flying Pram]

wonder if I could get my Xair into LHR?
Several years ago a group of microlights flew into Heathrow. One didn't fly out again after being blown over by a taxying Jumbo!
I don't imagine they were charged anything like this ludicrous sum of money, and I belive they were allowed to use a taxiway for landing/takeoff.
Interesting thread though.

[Johnm]

Hmmmm I paid £56 for my Archer to land and park overnight at Leipzig. It's about the same size but not as busy by a long way.

[stiknruda]

What a splendid read and an equally splendid thing to do! And so little of the Pprune-bitch-fest!!

Well done.

Took a PA31-350 into Jan Smuts one day but it really was quiet, Lanseria the GA 'drome in Jo'burg where I was a frequent visitor was at the time the airport with most African movements. Still, not a patch on what you did!

Stik

[IO540]

I seriously wonder why Gatwick is like this.

Unlike Heathrow, the place is pretty quiet for much of the day and could easily handle GA traffic.

Europe has loads of airports which dwarf Gatwick or Heathrow in size so nobody should feel in some way inferior for not having been to Gatwick.

Incidentally Gatwick publishes perfectly reasonable VFR approach plates, via Jeppesen so probably via the UK AIP too. You get the usual VRPs ;) I hate VRPs; the IR was worth doing just to never again have to find another VRP :)

[cirrus01]

How much different would have been the final cost had you decided to arrive at ,say 15:00 hrs ?

[Andy_R]

Well done that man. I was sorely tempted to splash out on a Gatwick logbook entry until I read this!!

I dropped into Edinburgh in August (another lifetime ambition) and really enjoyed the lining up with the big boys. It didn't cost £900 though :eek:

Good on ya for doing it though!! Maybe if I have a small lottery win I will blow it on a day out to Gatwick.

[elac2]

Well done!! Great experience. I flew a Mooney 201 into LGW in 1988. Great fun and asked to keep high speed for as long as posssible so as not to slow up the big boys. What speed they ask you for and until what distance.

Good one for the log book and great pics.

elac2

[mstram]

$1,720.00 Canadian ! :ooh: :eek:

I can book a flight from Toronto to London and stay in a pretty good hotel ... er.. maybe motel ... :) for that amount.

Or, more likely in my case a two or maybe three week golf vacation in the southern u.s..

Oh well, if the OP was happy, so be it.

I was contemplating flying into CYYZ a few years ago for the fun of it, but changed my mind quickly after finding out about the ~$100.00 CAD landing fee. ... Possibly / probably more now, haven't checked.

Instead, I did a *free* "flyover" one night when it was quiet. I was given "the option" by the controller, but elected to keep the wheels in the air for a "low and over" (and my money in my wallet).

The surprising thing I remember, was that even at only ~2,000 feet up, how "small" even those big runways looked :)

Mike

[PPRuNeUser0173]

What fabulous pictures! Thank you Contacttower for an interesting thread. Many years ago I did a similar flight but from Lasham in a Cessna 150 - what an unforgettable experience. Sadly no photos were taken at the time.

[A and C]

You are not discribing the Gatwick that I know with , being cleared to land at 200ft on a regular basis and 100ft now and then I think that squeezing GA in would be quite hard as much as it would like it to avoid the commute around the M25.

The more that I fly IFR the more I like Visual approaches................. Big jet, small Greek island & visual approach from 10,000 ft........... now thats what I call fun!!

[JW411]

I taxied out at JFK one night and found myself in the congo line behind a Cessna 172.

The Cessna duly got airborne. I was then cleared to line up and take-off on 22R "caution wake turbulence from previous departing aircraft".

I thought that was quite amusing since I was driving a DC-10!

[Flyer Flier]

Just for anyone else contemplating a Gatwick visit, but not wishing to splash out quite as much, then I would recommend either Vallance Byways or Dovers Green. I flew into both earlier this year. Peter Vallance's strip running parallel to to 08R threshold lets you fly directly over the Gatwick apron and the best bit of all, he refused to accept a landing fee from me, gave me a tour of his museum and also a free lift to my CAA medical reval. :ok:
I would say that the Museum strip does require some strip experience to do safely, but just up the road at Dovers Green (also PPR from Peter) a PA28 type should have no problem.
If you want to see some pics to get an idea, then I put a trip report here:
http://forums.flyer.co.uk/viewtopic.php?p=445043 (http://forums.flyer.co.uk/viewtopic.php?p=445043&highlight=dovers#445043)
Well done to Contacttower for doing what floats his boat, but as already mentioned by other posters, you may well be better off nipping across to Europe to get a similar experience. We recently dropped into Hamburg on the way home in our SEP to give our group member a taste of the "Big Time" and he had a similar seminal pleasure, but for only 56 euros total.;)
Cheers
FF

[SD.]

Fair play to you sir, but sod that, how much ?????? :eek:


LAX - $80
San Diego Int - $20
McCarran (Las Vegas Int) - $80

I flew into those 3 bad boys on a cross country flight in a Duchess over a long weekend last year. "Taxi to 25R, cross 25L at Golf, then taxi full length to Bravo behind the Quantas 747". :}

[TheOddOne]

By goodness given the lenght of 07 at Gatwick it would have to be a very poorly executed go around - unless of course you were intending to land very looooooong.

Fuji old chap,

Gatwick's runways are 08R/26L and 08L/26R. I din't think it's due to change to 07L or 07R for some years yet...

FYFI 08R/26L is the main instrument runway, 08L/26R is the so-called 'Northern' runway and is visual only. It may only be brought into use when the main runway is unavailable, usually due to maintenance at night. Don't ask to use it just 'cos you're visual!

TheOddOne

[TheOddOne]

Usually VFR in the rotary, and the routine is hold at the North Terminal, and then land after whichever sky darkening piece of alloy has just touched down. Sadly they then make us follow A lumbering line of jumbos to a hold for a runway departure. They just can't get the idea that all I need is somewhere reasonably flat and a route nothbound away from the approach/departure path, which is pretty much what Heathrow provides.

Verticalhold,

Years ago, there was an 'H' at Gatwick positioned on what is now taxiway Lima, just North of stand 150, if you have a plate of Gatwick to hand. This was fine when this taxiway was a cul-de-sac but it had to be removed temporarily for WIP. When we wanted to replace it with something more user-friendly we did risk assessments on all the possible locations and came up with...nowhere! Thus, all rotary traffic now has to land/take off on the runway in use and thus has to book slots instead of just dropping in. Something of an own goal, really. Vallance Byways now does good business in rotary movements and good luck to him.

TheOddOne

[we_never_change]

Do Gatwick have Avgas?

My local airport (Birmingham) stopped supplying Avgas some time ago, presumably to deter GA.

WNC

[Bravo73]

My local airport (Birmingham) stopped supplying Avgas some time ago, presumably to deter GA.


Presumably not. :ugh: Presumably because there wasn't sufficient demand to make it profitable to store and supply avgas.

There doesn't have to be a conspiracy everywhere... ;)

[Contacttower]

I'm so pleased that everyone seems to have enjoyed the thread....thank you again for all your comments and encoragement:).

By the way the handling agent Interflight has refunded me £350 after they realised that they charged me the summer rate rather than the winter rate...so that made the cost more in line with what Bose suggested.

Gatwick doesn't usually have avgas but I think the handling agent could arrange it if given enough notice.

[Mikehotel152]

Well done mate! :D

Sorry to go off thread, briefly, but this reminds me of my first flight into Glasgow Prestwick as a 65 hour PPLer. We had flown up to Scotland from down south, Stapleford, ref-fueling at Gamston, and chose Prestwick for convenience. It has the feel of a big airport with 2 long runways and lots of Ryanair and 747 Freight traffic.

Left base for 31 in a C182 flying VFR and following ATC instructions explicitly, it went something like this:

Tower: "G-xxx, confirm visual 737 long final, keep it tight and report turning final"

Me: (seriously worried) "Negative on the 737, looking, will report turning final"

Me: "G-xxx final 31"

Tower: (after a 20 sec pause) a frustrated, "G-xxx, this isn't going to work, go around, right side of runway, maintain altitude and heading upwind until I call you"

Me: "Wilco, maintain upwind until you call"

I guess he hadn't realised that I was a low-hour PPL in an aircraft which I was told to land at 75kts (and I bl**dy well listen to my instructors!) and would not come in at 140ks like the 737!

We then proceeded upwind and watched a Ryanair 737 land pretty much alongside us on 31, flew out to sea at about 800ft and started to get a bit worried as the Isle of Arran loomed ahead, but finally:

Tower: "G-xxx, turn crosswind"

I acknowledged and did so. A little later, after a long silence from ATC came the sarcastic:

Tower: "G-xxx, Are you going to turn downwind any time soon?"

Me: (an equally sarcastic, but giggly) "I was waiting for your instructions! Turning downwind now"

We then proceeded to land happily on 31 and flew out of Prestwick for a week, having hilarious exchanges with that particular controller (who clearly hated GA). Memorable last exchange with him:

"G-xxx, have you GOT an airfield plan!?"

Oh, those were the days!:O

[TheOddOne]

Do Gatwick have Avgas?


No. I was working at LGW when the AVGAS bowser was withdrawn in 1991 by the refuelling company. It had sat for 6 months with 2,000lit in it and only dispensed about 150lit. It was costing many more times the value of the AVGAS sales to keep it and the necessary staff training etc going so it had to go. Arrangements were made for the bowser at Redhill to be available should the need arise; this may have lapsed by now. If you go into LGW in a piston, make sure you've got enough to get out again. Redhill is only 5 mins flying time away.

The OddOne

ps the bowser would probably be refused entry to airside at Gatwick as it is not a clear plastic container of 100ml or less...:rolleyes:

[TheOddOne]

ps the bowser would probably be refused entry to airside at Gatwick as it is not a clear plastic container of 100ml or less...

...which reminds me of the true story of a water bowser driver who was told he couldn't bring his 500ml water bottle through, despite him pointing out to the security guard that he was driving 10,000lit of water about, how much difference was another 1/2lit going to make, what was the guard going to do about that?

He was eventually allowed through having decanted the water from his bottle into his 10,000lit tanker. Barmy or what?

TheOddOne

[IO540]

Gatwick does have a lot of quiet periods, among the very busy ones.

It could easily take slow GA. They would need some sort of slot system, a bit like Friedrichshafen (EDNY) when visiting the AERO 2007 exhibition. One books slots on their website and - Germans being organised - you can buy them with Paypal for a few Euros.

The trouble is that nobody in the business is interested in doing something radically different, when they get £1000 or whatever from every jet. It's the can't-do culture that's the problem, and equally it's the American can-do culture that keeps things going over there.

If I was running an airport, I would sell landing fees on the web, payable by CC or Paypal. Why have pilots queing up to pay landing fees? It's a waste of their time.

[Kengineer-130]

Now having done my PPL in Florida, I flew into daytona international, Orlando sanford and quite a few other regional airports, not ONE of them charged a penny (or is that cent?) :ok:......
Still can't decide what my favourite big airport experience was....
"Number two to land for stop and go after 747, caution for wake turbulance" at Sanford, then doing a short feild landing in a C150 (on a 10,000ft runway!!! :}) followed by a short field take off :cool::} , or flying radar vectors into Daytona in the sunset over the daytona oval for a touch and go amonst lots of big traffic :)...
Both sets of controllers were helpful friendly, and the ones at Sanford even had a sense of humour, advising me that I had "approximatly 9000' of runway for take off, was I happy with that or did I want to taxy back to the threshold ?" :}... My instructor and I were in bits laughing!! ... The best thing is we got treated as equals to the big boys, and we were not considered a burdon, and NO fees at all!
Infact the whole uk GA operation could learn a lot from the USA's model, the night lighing at most airfields could be operated by radio, so even if the airport was "shut", you can come and go as you please...
Anyway, well done on the Gatwick landing, :ok:, must have been great fun and challenging at the same time... Maybe when my numbers come up I will have a go

[Gipsy Queen]

Wow! Things have changed a bit . .

I was bringing a well-equipped - it had radio - Percival Prentice back from Brussels to Biggin one evening when, upon calling London they said "be advised Biggin is closed, call Gatwick on 123,4" which I thought I out to do since a couple of months previously I had landed after hours at Biggin and just managed to get off the airfield before P C Plod turned up on his LE Velocette.

The overnight stay at Gatwick was only 15/- which, even in those days was reasonable and the following morning I was able to bask in the luxury of having one of Dan Dare's 4B's exhaust de-ice the aircraft; their stands were opposite the GA park.

The only difficulty as I remember was the seemingly interminable waiting out in the boonies as every time I thought I might be able to go, "hold for the taxying Britannia". Eventually, complaining of incipient plug fouling, I was allowed to make a VFR departure back to Biggin. Those inverted DH engines did not like long periods of idling.

Not a lot to do with the general tenor of the thread but it was a "light single into Gatwick".

GQ.

[Blink182]

If LGW gets sold by the Spannish, then perhaps more enlightened
owners would welcome more GA business ???

[Dan Dare]

If LGW gets sold by the Spannish, then perhaps more enlightened
owners would welcome more GA business ???

Don't hold your breath - when hourly movements exceed 50 for most of the day for most of the summer there is very little incentive to encourage GA. We will only be invited back to LGW when runway capacity exceeds demand (i.e. when hell freezes over or mega-recession stops people wanting to go to Benidorm 24/7 - whichever happens first).

[old,not bold]

Light single into Gatwick?
Has anyone flown a light aircraft into Gatwick before?

Comments/experiences would be appreciated.
When I exported a Prentice I had to clear Customs at Gatwick. ATC held light aircraft orbiting just East of Redhill at 2000' and then told you to go for it direct to the threshold, turn in at 50', get down and get off the runway quick, when there was a gap in the landing sequence.

Departure was announced by a friendly lady in the terminal as "Bureimi Airways Flight No 1, boarding now."

Still, that was 1967. More gaps in traffic then, I guess. Good controllers too.

PS I don't know about Gipsy Queen, but I solved the Prentice oiling-up while idling problem by doing the mag check only when well into the climb after take-off. OK over land, but always a nervous moment over water.....and mine was well equipped too; it had a 4 channel radio behind the pilot's seat, and I had 70 crystals for it. Changing frequency meant changing crystals by feel, and re-tuning the aerial with a bulb and a piece of wire, also by feel.

[TheOddOne]

More gaps in traffic then, I guess. Good controllers too.


The former may no longer apply, but the latter most certainly does. In my opinion and experience, LGW controllers are the best in the world. They manage the busiest single-runway aerodrome in the world safely and expeditiously.

Well done Contacttower for making it work for you, it's a lot of effort and I'm sure everyone made you welcome.

TheOddOne